awakening or enlightnment?

[Cameron]

Which is the better term?

 

Awakening is IMO.

 

Isn't the translation of the term "Buddha" literally "one who is awake"?

[GrandTrinity]

idk, i think they are both relative terms. enlightenment i think of as almost the same thing, but higher than awakening

[Cameron]

The Japanese Zen tradition uses the terms "Kensho" and "Satori".

 

Kensho is like awakening. The initial "waking up" and seeing your true nature.

 

Satori is like full enlightenment. Completely removing all doubt about the Kensho experience and living that experience every day.

 

I guess I just answered my own question, huh?

 

One explanation of this I read is it's like seeing a cow from a disance. Kensho is like recognizing a cow(your true nature) from a distance. You see " Aha! That is a Cow!". But it is still far away from everyday life and the cow is not clear.

 

Enlightenment/Satori is seeing the cow up close. You see very clearly it is a female cow with brown spots etc. Your clarity improves and it is not just a wonderful but vague experience.

 

You here stories that such and such master "Got the Tao" when they were a such and such age then spent 40 or 50 years of zazen to bring greater clarity to there experience.

 

Of course one of the difficult parts to this is not just having an awakening but then integrating what was experienced seamlessly into everyday life. Actually manifesting the experience.

 

Of course, most people have probably never had the initial experience so can't work at perfecting it.

 

To use an example, it sounds like Master Nan got Kensho when he was in his 20's then practiced for many decades and now supposedly has full Annutara Samyak Sambhodi Enlightenment.

 

Adyashanti explains his awakening that I think happened when he was in his 30's but was that kensho or satori? It is possible to get satori all at once without Kensho first I read stories of Masters who did that but that is more rare.

 

If I had to put this into terminolgy that makes any sense kensho seems to be dropping the ego momentarily and experiencing true nature but not completely believing the realization or "cleared up" the many defilements,attachments, emotional clinging etc. Enlightenment is like a total dropping of the ego/seperate self illusion and experiencing one's true nature at all times with perfect compassion and wisdom(personified as Manjushri and Avalokiteshvara).

Edited December 15, 2005 by Cameron

[Yoda]

Awakening and Enlightenment sound like a goal or endpoint on the path to me whereas I believe there to be no end to learning and evolving, so the term is more misleading than enlightening. I think it's better to talk about an enlightening or awakening experience in the spirit of one of many. Sort of like attaining an orgasm--you don't say the master is orgasmed, just that he/she had one and it was very nice and here's how you can do the same.

[Cameron]

You and Sean..I keep trying to talk about enlightenment and you prefer bringing up sex and orgasms.

 

* circulates sexual energy in the microcosmic orbit and decides to talk about sex over enlightenment in '06*

Edited December 16, 2005 by Cameron

[sunshine]

skip both terms... we haven't reached it, so how to know what it means?

 

sorry. I haven't reached it... maybe some of you have...

[freeform]

.

Edited October 23, 2019 by freeform

[Jeremiah]

Language is such a tough thing.

 

if you don't think you are already "awakened" or "enlightened" and look up to certain people as "enlightened ones" or "masters" you probably will never find that pot of gold for yourself because you've already defined it as something that someone else has but you don't.

 

i can deal with "awakened". For a spiritual term i use "awaken in light". whatever that means. but really i detest the term "enlightened" as refernce to a certain person as "enlightened" like yoda pointed out it's a bit too much end game. so you say this person is enlightened and this one is not is such b.s.

 

but as a single or even lasting experince i can deal with "enlightenment" as i've so many light experinces now and more and more look out to the world from the center thru a spectical of vibrant, multidimensional light.

 

isn't a native american thing, "to awake from the dream" means to die. and be reborn... there's certainly light involved there.

 

oh sorry to ramble on, thinking on this i often talk of this "event" or vibration as a "cosmic opening" .... expanded inner and outer awareness to express my own experinces. but really for the awakening of psi or clarvoyant, claraudiant etc. experinces all of the above terms are quite inadequate!

 

in our light,

Jeremiah :-)

Edited December 16, 2005 by Jeremiah

[三江源]

.

Edited July 25, 2014 by cat

[Trunk]

There are a number of people that I've sat with, where the room was totally suffused with light. 'Subtle' isn't quite the right word, as sometimes it was intense enough so that it was difficult to stay in the room. Certain work literally integrates a human being with Light. We've talked about it before.