Total solitude

[hagar]

I think I have never seen a more compelling analogy for spiritual practice than this video.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81gn2oLeC_U

 

Beyond its poetic aspect, Joe Kittingers free fall from 100 000 is marked by the immense solitude of that first step, the highest step a man ever made.

 

And also, how profoundly intertwined technological evolution, the search for the sublime, and death is.

 

What's your thoughts on the experience of aloneness, or solitude. Is it a necessary prerequisite for spirital awakening?

 

h

Edited October 30, 2009 by hagar

[Marblehead]

I think I have never seen a more compelling analogy for spiritual practice than this video.

 

Saw something on him just recently. He still flies. I never could find a reason to jump out of a perfectly good airplane.

 

Peace & Love!

[hagar]

Saw something on him just recently. He still flies. I never could find a reason to jump out of a perfectly good airplane.

 

Peace & Love!

 

Well, neither could I.

 

A friend of mine is a base jumper, and he said he never jumps out of working planes, only stuff attached to the ground

 

Another great clip, cave jumping:

 

This is getting off topic.

[King Kabalabhati]

I have a gut feeling that spiritual progress should involve transcending the feeling of loneliness so that solitude doesn't become bothersome. I personally have a hard time staying at peace when alone for prolonged periods. I have never lived alone, I've always shared my home with someone.

[hagar]

I have a gut feeling that spiritual progress should involve transcending the feeling of loneliness so that solitude doesn't become bothersome. I personally have a hard time staying at peace when alone for prolonged periods. I have never lived alone, I've always shared my home with someone.

 

There is a huge difference between solitude and aloneness, and there is the external aloneness, and there is the existential aloneness.

 

For me, I've always been drawn to external solitude, in nature. The immensity that is felt when you are not confronted with other humans for longer period of time in nature is itself a form of practice.

 

But when it comes down to it, I think you are right about internal aloneness. Loneliness is one thing, aloneeness is something different. The times I have confronted the experience in my practice, everything gets pretty scary. It comes through letting go of the "I", and thus not knowing anything. And then I am finally alone. Really alone. What to do next?

 

Many teachers talk about it, and there is actually more on this in Christian contemplative tradition than eastern teachings.

 

Yet what kind of shift happens when you let go of fearing not knowing who you are?

[Marblehead]

I have a gut feeling that spiritual progress should involve transcending the feeling of loneliness so that solitude doesn't become bothersome. I personally have a hard time staying at peace when alone for prolonged periods. I have never lived alone, I've always shared my home with someone.

 

I sometimes go for up to a week without communicating with another human except for listening to music and here on the internet.

 

Being alone is not bad as long as you don't get lonely. I always have me around as well as my cats and fish and frogs. Yes, I sometimes talk with them.

 

But it is when we are alone that we are able to search the deepest parts of our essence and ask ourself the really difficult queations. And I think that it is in our alone hours that we are able to experience our spirituality to it fullness.

 

Peace & Love!

[C T]

The road each of us take in this life can only be taken by us alone. No one can walk this road on our behalf. There is a weakness, a tendency, where we may project and impose this expectation on others, like our family, gods, teachers, country, therapists, partners, society, spiritual master of this and that etc. - to deflect this immense responsibility, if only for a while, so that we can shift a bit of the burden or to lay out a safety net in case we fall miserably on this journey - but at some point, we have to acknowledge and embrace this quest for personal freedom. Isnt this the essence of solitude?

 

Bee good all!

[hagar]

I sometimes go for up to a week without communicating with another human except for listening to music and here on the internet.

 

Being alone is not bad as long as you don't get lonely. I always have me around as well as my cats and fish and frogs. Yes, I sometimes talk with them.

 

But it is when we are alone that we are able to search the deepest parts of our essence and ask ourself the really difficult queations. And I think that it is in our alone hours that we are able to experience our spirituality to it fullness.

 

Peace & Love!

 

Take this abit further, those deepest parts actually calls or longs for that otherness, that which is real, yet insubstantial. Only through experiencing this "darkness in the darkness" as Adyashanti calls it can we feel its pull. Actually, it is closely related to death, or the illusion of the "me" that must cease to exist. What happens when we realize that we cannot continue to rearrange the deckchairs on the Titanic. That we are in some sense forced to reliquish our attachement to life to open to that "otherness".

 

What happens then?

I always felt a fascination for this scene in the movie "Grand Bleu", wher the main character, Jaques feels compelled to cross that border, and merge with the ocean. I don't know why it fascinates me, but it always gave me a sense of peace and horror at the same time.

 

 

is it the mermaids?

 

h

[Marblehead]

Yeah CowTao,

 

That reminded me of Bob Dylan's words (paraphrased): "We all must one day stand naked in front of our maker."

 

Now, I'm not a religious man so I don't take that word 'maker' seriously but in the end we are each responsible for our own actions. No matter how hard we try we cannot place our responsibilities on others - that is only trying to avoid our responsibilities.

 

In our hours of solitude (meditation or praying for most people) is when we should search our inner self and understand what our responsibilities to ourself and those around us really are.

 

So rather than becoming bored and lonely we should use these moments of solitude to attain inner peace & contentment.

 

Peace & Love!

[Taiji Bum]

I think solitude is a phase of the Tao and I think "On Walden Pond" has the best ideas on it. I also think that its a phase of the mastery process. If you look at the lives of the great "workers" of the world you will usually see that they spent a great deal of time alone before they began their great work and even when they were supremely active they still spent time alone each day for reflection.

 

The Mastery Process (as I see it anyway)

1- Learn

2- Practice

3- Apply

4- Reflect

5- Teach

6- Let Go

7- Rest

[C T]

Yeah CowTao,

 

That reminded me of Bob Dylan's words (paraphrased): "We all must one day stand naked in front of our maker."

 

Now, I'm not a religious man so I don't take that word 'maker' seriously but in the end we are each responsible for our own actions. No matter how hard we try we cannot place our responsibilities on others - that is only trying to avoid our responsibilities.

 

In our hours of solitude (meditation or praying for most people) is when we should search our inner self and understand what our responsibilities to ourself and those around us really are.

 

So rather than becoming bored and lonely we should use these moments of solitude to attain inner peace & contentment.

 

Peace & Love!

Top of the morning to you sir!

 

You WOULD love to stand naked in front of your baker wont you? Hahaha....

Well, a gorgeous baker is anytime more tempting than maker

 

Humor aside, very well put M. Your wisdom is shining again, after a couple of days of 'swimming in choppy waters'

 

I love solitude. I love pretty bakers too!

 

Bee good my friend..

Edited October 30, 2009 by CowTao

[Marblehead]

Top of the morning to you sir!

 

You WOULD love to stand naked in front of your baker dont you? Hahaha....

Well, a gorgeous baker is anytime more tempting than maker

 

Humor aside, very well put M. Your wisdom is shining again, after a couple of days of 'swimming in choppy waters'

 

I love solitude. I love pretty bakers too!

 

Bee good my friend..

 

Hehehe. Yes, I love gorgeous (or any other kind) bakers even more when we are standing naked.

 

Yes, I have been through many choppy waters in my day. Luckily I learned early in life how to swim. (Yes, we still need to know how to swim even if we are going with the flow.)

 

Peace & Love!

[宁]

hi hagar,

 

there's this idea

that we, as westerners are a individualist culture with a conformist mass spirituality

- i.e, we are capitalists in everyday life, and white sheeps in the flock of the Lord, at his right, in the spiritual life

 

chinese are a conformist mass culture, with a individualist type of spirituality

- i.e, they respect customs and social order very much, society and country are a priority

- regarding spiritual life, it's the side of their life where they are really alone, facing the unknown, the Wuji

 

this view i encountered many places.

it's really very interesting to evade the modality of thinking that prevades in a certain culture.

like changing clothes,

like eating a foreing dish...

 

to me, it's really important to be able to rise over different types of thinking, and use any of them whenever they are needed most.

[hagar]

hi hagar,

 

there's this idea

that we, as westerners are a individualist culture with a conformist mass spirituality

- i.e, we are capitalists in everyday life, and white sheeps in the flock of the Lord, at his right, in the spiritual life

 

chinese are a conformist mass culture, with a individualist type of spirituality

- i.e, they respect customs and social order very much, society and country are a priority

- regarding spiritual life, it's the side of their life where they are really alone, facing the unknown, the Wuji

 

this view i encountered many places.

it's really very interesting to evade the modality of thinking that prevades in a certain culture.

like changing clothes,

like eating a foreing dish...

 

to me, it's really important to be able to rise over different types of thinking, and use any of them whenever they are needed most.

 

Interesting point.

Really haven't seen it in that light before.

 

As to how Chinese in general regard spirituality, when I was in China, I felt that spiritual practice was frowned upon by lay people. Many who practice qigong do also view it instrumentally. But in one sense, the communal mentality that pervades Chinese culture is changing towards western individualism. What struck me though was their advantage towards life was one of unsentimentality, not really emphasizing emotions, yet being able to express sincere feelings in an honest way, and not viewing them as opposed to rationality in any way.

 

I thing I have never been so lonely as when I was in Bejing though. It all changed when I met a teenage hermit in the mountains, living alone on the Great Wall.

 

h

[Marblehead]

... it's really important to be able to rise over different types of thinking, and use any of them whenever they are needed most.

 

I just wanted to repeat this.

 

Peace & Love!

[joeblast]

 

What's your thoughts on the experience of aloneness, or solitude. Is it a necessary prerequisite for spirital awakening?

 

h

there's something about just being able to sit there and enjoy....just being there

 

[宁]

back on solitude,

this is how i feel that the true nature of reality is: man alone, facing the universe (all around and inside)

we come alone in this world

no matter what we do, because of our unicity, we are still alone in life

and go alone...

i feel it's a natural feeling, of solitude

what are we, anyway?

Edited October 30, 2009 by Little1

[Marblehead]

what are we, anyway?

 

Herd animals?

 

Peace & Love!

[Aetherous]

we come alone in this world

no matter what we do, because of our unicity, we are still alone in life

and go alone...

 

I used to think this was true, and said it once to my mom. We sometimes have fun philosophical discussions as we walk around the block.

 

She brought up a good point: no one is born alone. The pregnant mother is there, along with the freaked out husband (usually), and a team of hospital workers or whatever. Most people celebrate the birth of a new kid into the world, going to see the newborn as soon as possible.

 

Plus, people are with us all of the time, and it's actually hard to find solitude in life. I mean, if I'm having a rough day and don't want to see a single person...well, I still have to go to the store to find food, and talk to the checkout girl. Very few people are actually alone in life...despite many being very lonely.

 

And of course life can seem lonely to pretty much everyone, because of our perspective as the sole kings and queens of the universe. We don't experience others as being the same as us, when we're stuck in our heads, being the only "seers". However, when we live from the heart, then we can begin to see ourselves in others, in a sense.

 

I think when there are moments of solitude, we are closest to our pre-birth state/pure self-hood. We're more aware of our existence as part of something great. The mind fog is lifted for a second, and nature is partly seen as it is.

[hagar]

I used to think this was true, and said it once to my mom. We sometimes have fun philosophical discussions as we walk around the block.

 

She brought up a good point: no one is born alone. The pregnant mother is there, along with the freaked out husband (usually), and a team of hospital workers or whatever. Most people celebrate the birth of a new kid into the world, going to see the newborn as soon as possible.

 

Plus, people are with us all of the time, and it's actually hard to find solitude in life. I mean, if I'm having a rough day and don't want to see a single person...well, I still have to go to the store to find food, and talk to the checkout girl. Very few people are actually alone in life...despite many being very lonely.

 

And of course life can seem lonely to pretty much everyone, because of our perspective as the sole kings and queens of the universe. We don't experience others as being the same as us, when we're stuck in our heads, being the only "seers". However, when we live from the heart, then we can begin to see ourselves in others, in a sense.

 

I think when there are moments of solitude, we are closest to our pre-birth state/pure self-hood. We're more aware of our existence as part of something great. The mind fog is lifted for a second, and nature is partly seen as it is.

 

I second that. I only realized this when I stood in the delivery room myself. The umbilical cord, and all the rest kind of puts things in perspective.

 

 

 

 

HA

[宁]

Herd animals?

 

Peace & Love!

"The self-confidence of the warrior is not the self-confidence of the average man. The average man seeks certainty in the eyes of the onlooker and calls that self-confidence.

The warrior seeks impeccability in his own eyes and calls that humbleness. The average man is hooked to his fellow men, while the warrior is hooked only to infinity."

The Wheel of Time

 

Something tells me you'd love this author.

 

It may be a transition to you, towards practice. Even if daoism is a really interesting philosophy, it's practice beats it by far... Because if philosophy is adressed to masses, practice is adressed to your unique. There is a whole universe inside you. Universe!

[Marblehead]

"The self-confidence of the warrior is not the self-confidence of the average man. The average man seeks certainty in the eyes of the onlooker and calls that self-confidence.

The warrior seeks impeccability in his own eyes and calls that humbleness. The average man is hooked to his fellow men, while the warrior is hooked only to infinity."

The Wheel of Time

 

Something tells me you'd love this author.

 

I'm sure you are right.

 

A code of the true warrior: I will help you if I can; I will kill you if I must. (Note all the "I" words? That's self-reliance.)

 

It may be a transition to you, towards practice. Even if daoism is a really interesting philosophy, it's practice beats it by far... Because if philosophy is adressed to masses, practice is adressed to your unique. There is a whole universe inside you. Universe!

 

Yeah, remember, I was a career soldier. I have practiced a lot of stuff. My work is done. I have retired.

 

But I still like to keep the brain juices flowing.

 

Hehehe. I'm not going to talk about how I am the universe; our Buddhists friends might misunderstand my words.

 

Peace & Love!

[~jK~]

What's your thoughts on the experience of aloneness, or solitude. Is it a necessary prerequisite for spirital awakening?

h

Yes - Absolutely yes.

 

I had not thought about it but 'solitude' is one of the elements necessary for growth.

It should seem obvious that seeing what is Not there is as important as seeing what Is there

There are too many experiments that cannot be done with the noise of others in your head.

I come from a very large family of 81 cousins, aunts, uncles etc living on one mountain.

I have lived alone - except for the ocasional girlfriend - since I was 17.

Totaly Alone I have experienced the phases of Enlightenment.

Alone is alone but not alone - you are one with yourself.

Sometimes I do not speak to anyone for months.

Vocal chords sometimes forget how to work.

When I go out, I explode with energy.

 

Meditation is my true friend.

Very few could do it.

'must be nature'

Can't U See

The Me?

Edited November 2, 2009 by ~jK~

[DaoChild]

I think I have never seen a more compelling analogy for spiritual practice than this video.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81gn2oLeC_U

 

Beyond its poetic aspect, Joe Kittingers free fall from 100 000 is marked by the immense solitude of that first step, the highest step a man ever made.

 

And also, how profoundly intertwined technological evolution, the search for the sublime, and death is.

 

What's your thoughts on the experience of aloneness, or solitude. Is it a necessary prerequisite for spirital awakening?

 

h

 

I think that aloneness and solitude are merely catalysts for spiritual change. Sometimes a material person can quickly be convinced of the impersonal underlying existence beyond form. Usually an intense moment of fear, awakening, or just awe produces feelings like this...

 

Coming from someone who has been sky diving and bungee jumping . Fun stuff . Neither, however, felt remotely spiritual to me -- just fun.

 

Sitting in the forest alone in the middle of winter makes me feel true solitude, and pure life.

[~jK~]

Sitting in the forest alone in the middle of winter makes me feel true solitude, and pure life.

 

When I travel, I don't feel as I have been anywhere, untill I see the forrests.

Traveling in night dreams, I return home - to the Appalachians.

 

Good analogy "catalyst" but a catalyst is any other than 'mere'.

A catalyst may be small but it is what 'precipitates the process.

 

Sitting in the forest, I have never felt nor been alone.

I describe the experience more of 'being' as one with.

Nature is the one companion I have always kept near