everseeking Posted November 1, 2009 Hey everybody, I just got this course called 'Tien Tao Qi Gong'. I know it is something the good Doctor Glenn Morris did back on the day. I got the book 'shadow strategies...' as well. I had planned on taking KAP 1 about now, but have run out of money for now, and decided to follow my gut and wait untill Im closer to graduating, so as to not have too much to deal with all at once. Anyway, I was reading that in this Tien Tao qi gong, part of the instructions say to "Continue natural breathing while bringing the pupils of the eyes gently in unison by concentrating them on the tip of the nose. Concentrate here for three to five minutes." Well, does that mean I should cross my eyes? I have tried doing this with my eyes crossed, and it is the fastest way I have ever found to bring about a REALLY BAD headache, short of hitting myself with a hammer. I get a VERY, VERY painful pressure between and behind my eyes on the exhale when I do this. Thankfully, it goes away once I uncross my eyes. Thoughts? Please help me!! Thanks--- Nate- Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TzuJanLi Posted November 1, 2009 Greetings.. LOL, no.. this is a misinterpretation.. the original instruction was to "focus on nose".. which meant to focus on 'Breath'.. yep, there's a bunch of numb-skulls out there staring at their noses and getting headaches, AND trying to rationalize the process.. Be well.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
everseeking Posted November 1, 2009 Whew!! Thanks. Just had me wondering though, since the previous two pieces of instruction deal (in part) with where you gaze, each one moving the gaze closer to the body. So I assume that it means to look down the nose, but not cross the eyes. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lino Posted November 1, 2009 Greetings.. LOL, no.. this is a misinterpretation.. the original instruction was to "focus on nose".. which meant to focus on 'Breath'.. yep, there's a bunch of numb-skulls out there staring at their noses and getting headaches, AND trying to rationalize the process.. Be well.. Actually, The course that everseeking is talking about. It does specify to change the eyesight focus to different places. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
everseeking Posted November 2, 2009 So, Lino dear friend, have you experience with the Tien Tao course? Should I actually cross my eyes, or just look downward? Im confused again...maybe crossong the eyes is like, a big secret supercharging technique>? Even it it is/were, there's probably no way I could do it--everytime I get into breathing after a min or two, get in the groove, then cross my eyes, it hurts like hell right in the forehead on the exhale. Thanks... Well, shit. I just answered my own question by reading deeper--you are supposed to cross the eyes gently. Ugghh.. Even with eyes closed, it makes me feel like shit. Hope it doesn't kill me or something!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gendao Posted November 2, 2009 Hey everybody, I just got this course called 'Tien Tao Qi Gong'. I know it is something the good Doctor Glenn Morris did back on the day. I got the book 'shadow strategies...' as well. I had planned on taking KAP 1 about now, but have run out of money for now, and decided to follow my gut and wait untill Im closer to graduating, so as to not have too much to deal with all at once. Anyway, I was reading that in this Tien Tao qi gong, part of the instructions say to "Continue natural breathing while bringing the pupils of the eyes gently in unison by concentrating them on the tip of the nose. Concentrate here for three to five minutes." Well, does that mean I should cross my eyes? I have tried doing this with my eyes crossed, and it is the fastest way I have ever found to bring about a REALLY BAD headache, short of hitting myself with a hammer. I get a VERY, VERY painful pressure between and behind my eyes on the exhale when I do this. Thankfully, it goes away once I uncross my eyes. Thoughts? Please help me!! Thanks--- Nate- Actually, they instruct this same practice in Taoist Yoga - uniting the "sun" & "moon" down in the lower dan tian. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TzuJanLi Posted November 2, 2009 Greetings.. Those unfamiliar with Chinese metaphor, especially in the 'Arts', often misinterpret the instruction.. Eye represents 'attention'.. Nose represents 'breath'.. Hand represents 'Intention'.. So, the often misinterpreted Taiji instruction that "Eyes follow Hand", means that Attention should be where the Intention will manifest.. there is no practical or energetic result from staring at your hands.. Try rereading some instructions with this in mind.. Be well.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lino Posted November 2, 2009 (edited) So, Lino dear friend, have you experience with the Tien Tao course? Should I actually cross my eyes, or just look downward? Im confused again...maybe crossong the eyes is like, a big secret supercharging technique>? Even it it is/were, there's probably no way I could do it--everytime I get into breathing after a min or two, get in the groove, then cross my eyes, it hurts like hell right in the forehead on the exhale. Thanks... Well, shit. I just answered my own question by reading deeper--you are supposed to cross the eyes gently. Ugghh.. Even with eyes closed, it makes me feel like shit. Hope it doesn't kill me or something!! I looked though the course then I discarded it. I have no inkling of what emptiness or stillness is supposed to be, that's the part that killed it for me, since I get distracted and start feeding emotions rather easily so its of no use to me. Also, I don't like the eye crossing method. According to that course, when the eyes are crossed the "soul" goes to the "source" or liver. I may be misinterpreting stuff but the interpretation that I get is that the wei chi or protective layer of the body goes to the liver. I don't like that because then the body becomes more vulnerable to invaders. Sorry I couldn't help. Edited November 2, 2009 by lino Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Non Posted November 2, 2009 Maybe also "staring into wuji/nothingness" appears a little crosseyed. Basically it's just eyes are relaxed staring off into infinite space. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gendao Posted November 2, 2009 Those unfamiliar with Chinese metaphor, especially in the 'Arts', often misinterpret the instruction.. Eye represents 'attention'.. Nose represents 'breath'.. Hand represents 'Intention'.. So, the often misinterpreted Taiji instruction that "Eyes follow Hand", means that Attention should be where the Intention will manifest.. there is no practical or energetic result from staring at your hands.. Try rereading some instructions with this in mind..Interesting possibility, but Taoist Yoga also specifically instructs rotating the eyes CW & CCW. That sounds more literal than metaphorical? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Inedible Posted November 2, 2009 Greetings.. Those unfamiliar with Chinese metaphor, especially in the 'Arts', often misinterpret the instruction.. Eye represents 'attention'.. Nose represents 'breath'.. Hand represents 'Intention'.. So, the often misinterpreted Taiji instruction that "Eyes follow Hand", means that Attention should be where the Intention will manifest.. there is no practical or energetic result from staring at your hands.. Try rereading some instructions with this in mind.. Be well.. Do they have the same metaphor in India where in Raja Yoga also there are instructions for focussing the eyes on the tip of the nose in order to change the flow of energy in the body? If you have a tendency toward headache, it is suggested to avoid focussing attention above the neck. Belly breathing and awareness in the tan tien is much better if you have this tendency. (I can gaze down my nose indefinitely and not get a headache.) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
everseeking Posted November 2, 2009 Well, FWIW, Im not talking about gazing down the nose, I mean actually staring at your nose (not TOO forcefully) so that your eyes actually do cross. The idea next is to 'look inward' and close your eyes, meaning that you keep your eyes crossed (with eyes now closed) as if you could see through your skull and were looking through your nostrils. Thats the best way I can describe it. I tried it again, same reaction--headache, instantly. Then I touched the tip of my tongue to the roof of my mouth and the pain went away. I think the idea is partly more about closing your eyes and looking in with you eyes into your body (with imagination of course) and following the orbit with your eyes. I suppose I will just have to go with it and see where it takes me. It is the most complete Qi Gong course I can afford (cost me $2.50) and very detailed. If Im dedicated I might be able to complete it in 6 months or less, and By then I'll be more ready for KAP1 or personal instruction. I want to open the MCO, Macro, and eventually Raise Kundalini. If anything noteworthy happens I'll let you all know. Wish me luck!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thelerner Posted November 2, 2009 Eric Yudelove who was heavily influenced by Mantak Chia used cross eyed practices in his book, 100 Days... Anne Wise found looking up 'focusing on the 3rd eye' brought on a relaxation response measurable w/ by her Brain Wave machine. She also found doing it long brought on stress which reduced the effect. So some of her guided meditations have you look up on the breath in for the first few breaths. Michael Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NeiChuan Posted November 2, 2009 Yeah lol I was unintentionally focusing my eyes that way sorta've and found out the hard way.. So just stopped lol kinda've common sense. Yeah lol I was unintentionally focusing my eyes that way sorta've and found out the hard way.. So just stopped lol kinda've common sense. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
