thuscomeone Posted November 2, 2009 (edited) Do you think that it is or ever will be actually possible for us to know with 100% certainty what happens after death while we are still alive? Thought this might make for a good discussion. I'm curious to know what some of the bums think on this subject. Edited November 2, 2009 by thuscomeone Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
33865_1494798762 Posted November 2, 2009 (edited) Do you think that it is or ever will be actually possible for us to know with 100% certainty what happens after death while we are still alive? Thought this might make for a good discussion. I'm curious to know what some of the bums think on this subject. After death? There is no after death because ther is no death in life. Only what is already dead will die - The mind, your belief, your ideas, gods and so on will die. After death nothing happens. This is not acceptable to the already dead ego. It is accustomed to the idea that it itself is the center of the universe - the source of action in life so it do what it usely does - reacts, only this time on "nothing" - by this mistake it commit suicide. The chain of thoughts are broken and that brings a collapse to the strukture (mind), it falls apart. The body goes on living the way it usually does, however it will undergo a radical transforming in to new shapes. Life goes on, it is not born and it will never cease to exist. Edited November 2, 2009 by Guest Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
goldisheavy Posted November 2, 2009 (edited) Do you think that it is or ever will be actually possible for us to know with 100% certainty what happens after death while we are still alive? It's not any more possible than to know what will happen tomorrow. Can you know what will happen tomorrow to you? If yes, you can also know what will happen after death. It's the same kind of activity -- prognostication, projection, guesstimate, educated guess, intuition, whatever you want to call it. Funny thing is, people feel free to talk about tomorrow as if they have already been in the tomorrow, which is obviously false. Edited November 2, 2009 by goldisheavy Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
33865_1494798762 Posted November 2, 2009 (edited) Edited November 3, 2009 by Guest Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted November 2, 2009 Do you think that it is or ever will be actually possible for us to know with 100% certainty what happens after death while we are still alive? I really doubt that we will ever know. I for sure do not know. All I know is that at death the body as we know it dies. I also include the brain as part of the body. Some folks seem to think they know what will happen but I have never seen any proof to support what they say. I like surprises so whatever happens will be a nice surprise for me. Peace & Love! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hyok Posted November 2, 2009 I'm pretty sure it depends on how you die, i.e. last thought, state of heart-mind type stuff. But I think most ppl head to Arcturus to figure out where they're going next. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
doc benway Posted November 3, 2009 (edited) Do you think that it is or ever will be actually possible for us to know with 100% certainty what happens after death while we are still alive? Thought this might make for a good discussion. I'm curious to know what some of the bums think on this subject. To the OP - this is not meant to attack your thread, just sharing my thoughts on the matter... Why do we care what happens after we die? What does it matter? It's only when we are not really living that we worry about what happens after death. If we live life with eyes wide open and really see who and what we are, there is absolutely no interest in what happens after we die. Edited November 3, 2009 by steve f Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
33865_1494798762 Posted November 3, 2009 (edited) Edited November 3, 2009 by Guest Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
C T Posted November 3, 2009 Do you think that it is or ever will be actually possible for us to know with 100% certainty what happens after death while we are still alive? Hello! What an interesting question you have put forth here thuscomeone. It is not an easy task to attempt an answer, and it may very well be the subject of much ridicule should someone come forward to proclaim that they know the answer for certain. At best, i think we can only speculate and contemplate on this up to a point, and then find that the final piece of the jigsaw cannot be found while we are still alive. Please understand that i am speaking from the relative here, since there will be those who would point out that at the absolute level, there is no death, but that is a different matter altogether. I believe there is a reverence for elders of all the great traditions and faiths who have gained immense insight into this subject, and some have forwarded texts that offers very precise details on what takes place after death (and the final hours prior to this is also covered), and the two that springs to mind are the Egyptian Book of the Dead and the Tibetan Book of the Dead. These two volumes can be an interesting read if one seriously want to get a feel for the subject. Whether they can be regarded as authoritative or not is left entirely to the discretion of the reader, of course. Having met and spoken to a few of these elders myself regarding this question, i can report that their conviction about knowing exactly what happens after death is pretty steadfast, and these same elders have presided over the final transitional phases of many dying people, so they would be deeply venerated in their respective communities. I have attended a few Taoist funerals where ceremonial prayers are made by Taoist priests for the deceased, and this can last anywhere from one to three days, depending on how affluent the family of the deceased is! The services of these priests do come at quite a price i must say. Here the priests would chant/pray ceaselessly (no breaks over the 1 to 3 days ceremony - there are usually 3 priests at every funeral, and they take turns to do the prayers) for the smooth transition from death to purgatory to rebirth, and would make offerings to The Keeper of the Underworld and his death-escorts, or henchmen, to ask them to look favorably on the deceased and not to exact any punishment on him/her for transgressions made, and to escort the soul towards an auspicious rebirth. This is how its done in most Asian Chinese Taoist communities, so i just wanted to share this with you all on this thread. I know it does not address the question directly, but its slightly related i think. Hope some of you would have found this a little interesting... Thank you for reading. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
33865_1494798762 Posted November 3, 2009 (edited) Do you think that it is or ever will be actually possible for us to know with 100% certainty what happens after death while we are still alive? Thought this might make for a good discussion. I'm curious to know what some of the bums think on this subject. When people die, after a moment of confusion they look around and run for me and jumpdive strait into my heart. So, see you later Edited November 4, 2009 by Guest Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yoda Posted November 3, 2009 Here the priests would chant/pray ceaselessly (no breaks over the 1 to 3 days ceremony - there are usually 3 priests at every funeral, and they take turns to do the prayers) for the smooth transition from death to purgatory to rebirth, and would make offerings to The Keeper of the Underworld and his death-escorts, or henchmen, to ask them to look favorably on the deceased and not to exact any punishment on him/her for transgressions made, and to escort the soul towards an auspicious rebirth. This is how its done in most Asian Chinese Taoist communities, so i just wanted to share this with you all on this thread. I know it does not address the question directly, but its slightly related i think. Hope some of you would have found this a little interesting... Thanks for sharing CowTow! For anyone interested in the traditional Chinese angle, chapters 9-11 of the journey to the west are very fun and the pdf for the book is in the book club section of this site. Also the wiki on Hell notes is cool: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hell_bank_note Mak Tin Si said that the Yin dimension is reasonably similar to our Yang dimension but that it's much more low tech, no sun, but you still need a job! The main thing is that the yin dimension can be much more disorienting than the yang and that the yang portion of a person's life cycle is often more pleasant, easy, and predictable. Journey to the West where the Tang Emperor goes to the underworld illustrates these themes: Good karma and in-the-know social connections are big assets! Having surviving relatives in the yang dimension making offerings, blessings, etc is a big plus. An interesting thing is that the better a deceased relative does in the yin the better the rest of the surviving family will do too and vice versa and this can have a compounding effect through the generations creating better or worse family luck. There's an interesting moment where a fight nearly breaks out between the Tang Emperor and his deceased brother... some tensions there but the episode is not developed. The goal seems to be making the time in the yin to be as comfortable and short of a duration as possible before the next reincarnation to the yang... the Emperor was certainly happy to get out of there. Tao Toe, Yoda Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ninpo-me-this-ninjutsu-me-that Posted November 3, 2009 Thanks for sharing CowTow! For anyone interested in the traditional Chinese angle, chapters 9-11 of the journey to the west are very fun and the pdf for the book is in the book club section of this site. Also the wiki on Hell notes is cool: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hell_bank_note Mak Tin Si said that the Yin dimension is reasonably similar to our Yang dimension but that it's much more low tech, no sun, but you still need a job! Yoda I don't mean to contradict your teacher Yoda, but with respect, there is a sun in what you call the yin dimension, if by yin dimension you mean the inner counterpart of this one. There couldn't not be as everything outer has an inner double so to speak. I have seen/felt it on my travels as ridiculous as that may sound. I should point out that it is somewhat different to our physical sun in that it is a body/intelligence of energy that provides light/love/warmth to the inner planes. Within it, if you can access it, is information related to humanity and physical life, and probably a lot of other stuff I'm not aware of. I will say there are other dimensions where that energy/light barely reach though, so perhaps that is what your teacher speaks of. The 'sun' is absolutely there though, perhaps an analogy would be if you are in your house you could neither see or feel directly, the sun. So, some dimensions are like that, but there are so many of those...... so so many..... As for jobs there I have no idea, I have trouble enough doing the one I've got here! Getting up in the morning has never been a strong point of mine Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
innerspace_cadet Posted November 3, 2009 Do you think that it is or ever will be actually possible for us to know with 100% certainty what happens after death while we are still alive? Thought this might make for a good discussion. I'm curious to know what some of the bums think on this subject. People who have absolute certitude about things they haven't yet experienced--such as death--I would normally stay away from. People like that tend to be religious fanatics. Personally, I think the only power you can have over death is not to be afraid of it; that is the only real immortality. Of course, I could be wrong, and there could be an afterlife, but I'm not going to hold my breath. It's amazing the number of spiritual "seekers" who want prefabricated "answers" from Eastern religions about life and death and what comes after. I'm suspicious of any belief system that has an answer for everything; it has the effect of choking the mystery out of life and death. If you need some belief about what happens after death, you are just masking your fear of death. This thread really strikes a chord with me, because I have struggled with these questions too. I've come to the conclusion that I don't need a whole lot of beliefs, let alone a whole belief system, to lead a fulfilling existence. Of course, I might think differently on my death bed; I might just chicken out and hope for a "good rebirth." But the fact that there are very few atheists in foxholes does not necessarily prove that there is a God--or an afterlife. The universe will take its own course, whether you want it to or not. It doesn't care about your beliefs. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
goldisheavy Posted November 3, 2009 To the OP - this is not meant to attack your thread, just sharing my thoughts on the matter... And I am not attacking you Steve, OK? I just want to ask some counter questions. Why do we care what happens after we die? Why do we care what happens tomorrow? Or in the future, in general? What does it matter? This is the same question as above. It's only when we are not really living that we worry about what happens after death. If we live life with eyes wide open and really see who and what we are, there is absolutely no interest in what happens after we die. Does it have to be this black or white? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mantis Posted November 3, 2009 Nobody knows what happens, enjoy your life and forget about it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
enouch Posted November 3, 2009 (edited) Do you think that it is or ever will be actually possible for us to know with 100% certainty what happens after death while we are still alive? Thought this might make for a good discussion. I'm curious to know what some of the bums think on this subject. Did you listen to coast to coast last night? This topic came up and the author supplied evidence for his position -interesting discussion.Of course ,no one really knows until the deed is done.A muslim friend of mine getting his P.H.D. in islamic history and use to[philosophy degree too] be an atheist claims if man ever perfected means of staying alive or coming back to life after death he would surrender his faith.Of course the medical profession has defined death in many different ways,originally heart failure now brain death-it all seems to be relative eh? I certainly believe in life after death and I think how you live your life impacts on where you go and what you become.Atheist kid believers for their utopian belief or wish fufillment but theists can always kid non-believers for their belief which frees them from moral responsibility.Right is what I can get away with wrong is what I can't.Each of us has to find our own truth in our own time.Sure it might be possible if you can make it universal enough-not too many humans argue about the nature of the sun or if it is real.If we had a metaphysical or technological method that conformed to the uniformity of human experience...sure! Edited November 3, 2009 by enouch Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vajrahridaya Posted November 3, 2009 Do you think that it is or ever will be actually possible for us to know with 100% certainty what happens after death while we are still alive? Thought this might make for a good discussion. I'm curious to know what some of the bums think on this subject. Yes, one can through deep meditation, but it should not become an obsession. Whatever information on the psychic side should just be a natural side effect of honestly following your path in the "here now" as it seems to be. When one goes further and further into the here and now, one naturally see's all the connections that now has to the past and future. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Seth Ananda Posted November 3, 2009 As awareness grows, you start to be aware on the other levels, so you develop a presence on those levels. After a while you will know exactly where you (yourself not necessarily other people) will go because you are already there... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gerard Posted November 3, 2009 (edited) "You" will reborn into another form according to your karma. Very simple. Well, it sounds simple but it is much more complex than that. Edited: forgot to include a symbol. Edited November 3, 2009 by durkhrod chogori Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vajrahridaya Posted November 3, 2009 "You" will reborn into another form according to your karma. Very simple. Well, it sounds simple but it is much more complex than that. Edited: forgot to include a symbol. Rofl! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
宁 Posted November 3, 2009 if there's anything i like more than a moron, it's an opinionated moron we 'die' everyday, there's a moment in the night when the heart stops. good meditators die everytime they meditate. they rehearse death. if you don't have a clear view on the process of death, then you are not clear about life either. the question on death is a good one. deadly important Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vajrahridaya Posted November 3, 2009 (edited) the question on death is a good one. deadly important That's a good opinion that happens to be a fact for a spiritual seeker that is. A great being said that the two most important things on a seekers mind is death, and the nature of all things.... I guess they kind of run together, don't they. Since impermanence is the only permanent hotel in space! Edited November 3, 2009 by Vajrahridaya Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
宁 Posted November 3, 2009 speaking of impermanence, death really puts things into proper perspective, ain't it? and below is the supreme argument to it, eheh... <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHxWwiiNM_k&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param'>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHxWwiiNM_k&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHxWwiiNM_k&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object> Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
