MnM Posted November 3, 2009 I'm practicing retention and microcosmic orbit for quite some time.... Actually, when I think about it, for 8 years now. There was ups and downs, but the main thing is that progress is made after each one. In the beginning even when masturbating, I've never ejaculated, but use the build up energy to circulate through my orbit. While this was seamed like good thing to do, I always felt that something is missing. Spiritually, that only made huge step up, but I was not satisfied yet. 'Till recently I stopped with that, and now not only I have mind blowing full body orgasms with my wife, but also that same orgasms continue to last through rest of my day, and night and on and on.... My perception of world around me has gone through some changes, it seams to me that everything is inside of me, and I'm in everything.... Like I have new eyes, and that they are inside, or all around.... Amazing! But there is still something I should do, because often, when I'm alone, and wife's working, I feel strong sexual urge, and she is not there to "assist me". So in these moments porn sounds like something very tempting.... And don't get me wrong, I know how to drove back that build up energy so it would not bother me, that's not an issue. And I completely enjoy that experience which by itself can lead me to some fine body orgasms. But it seams like 'I just want sex....' And I love porn! Simple as that. Or is it? I don't know.... And I'm not superficial person, nor there is to it some hidden meaning.... So my question is, do any of you guys experience similar stuff? How you deal with that, or what do you think I should do? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wudangspirit Posted November 3, 2009 More spiritual development. It seems you may have made some self progress but you still have strong attachment to your desires. Taoist cultivation practices will help you practice non-attachment. Yes we are human and have desire but attachment to desire will lead to depleting your qi. Although you may have made some progress, how much of it is manifest? How much is real? The goal of Taoist cultivation is to transmute Jing to Qi and Qi to Shen and Shen back to Tao. You cannot expect to go back to Tao if you still have attachments to desire. What you could be experiencing also is manifest. In other words holding back so long then letting go. This is physical not spiritual development. However, if you are in stillness the motion will flow without attention. This is Wu Wei. Tao Bless I'm practicing retention and microcosmic orbit for quite some time.... Actually, when I think about it, for 8 years now. There was ups and downs, but the main thing is that progress is made after each one. In the beginning even when masturbating, I've never ejaculated, but use the build up energy to circulate through my orbit. While this was seamed like good thing to do, I always felt that something is missing. Spiritually, that only made huge step up, but I was not satisfied yet. 'Till recently I stopped with that, and now not only I have mind blowing full body orgasms with my wife, but also that same orgasms continue to last through rest of my day, and night and on and on.... My perception of world around me has gone through some changes, it seams to me that everything is inside of me, and I'm in everything.... Like I have new eyes, and that they are inside, or all around.... Amazing! But there is still something I should do, because often, when I'm alone, and wife's working, I feel strong sexual urge, and she is not there to "assist me". So in these moments porn sounds like something very tempting.... And don't get me wrong, I know how to drove back that build up energy so it would not bother me, that's not an issue. And I completely enjoy that experience which by itself can lead me to some fine body orgasms. But it seams like 'I just want sex....' And I love porn! Simple as that. Or is it? I don't know.... And I'm not superficial person, nor there is to it some hidden meaning.... So my question is, do any of you guys experience similar stuff? How you deal with that, or what do you think I should do? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fizix Posted November 3, 2009 Spiritually, that only made huge step up, but I was not satisfied yet. Spiritually, whatever internal alchemy practice you think you're doing, you are severely ingraining some completely misinformed ideals and bad habits. If your goal is spiritual attainment/REAL alchemy derived from the highest energy readily available (jing--->) you are going on a backwards path my friend; if you want to be some kind of tantric sex master bound by his desires, continue doing what you're doing IMO. Sorry for the bluntness, but deep down I truly believe your conceptual understanding (not even just yours, many believe these things) to be inherently flawed and regressive. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MnM Posted November 3, 2009 What you could be experiencing also is manifest. In other words holding back so long then letting go. I'm not letting go anything man... More so because I feel that my energy is not developing fully in that way. I made it this far, most of a time because of stillness, and have no desire to go back. Also I don't consider myself 'attached' to desire, although I love how that word sounds. And whole purpose of my post above "is" because I feel I need more spiritual development. I get your point, but I already know all that. Now it is possible that my knowledge of terminology is not good as yours, but somehow I don't think that you gave me something I could use here. After all, any progress I made so far, I made by myself and reading. Not because I want it like that, but because of a fact that here where I live it's not possible to find anything even resembling a teacher. Practical stuff is what I'm interested here. Can you give me some good advice on practical side of this subject? Spiritually, whatever internal alchemy practice you think you're doing, you are severely ingraining some completely misinformed ideals and bad habits. If your goal is spiritual attainment/REAL alchemy derived from the highest energy readily available (jing--->) you are going on a backwards path my friend; if you want to be some kind of tantric sex master bound by his desires, continue doing what you're doing IMO. Sorry for the bluntness, but deep down I truly believe your conceptual understanding (not even just yours, many believe these things) to be inherently flawed and regressive. Oh, brother.... another one.... Tantric sex master? Are you serious? Another example where Somebody ask for advice, and get load of preaching.... I bet you just waited to say something like that to somebody.... You are wrong "my friend". Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aetherous Posted November 3, 2009 Yes I experience similar stuff. Something I've been noticing... Lust is an unrefined form of love. So the reason why you haven't actually transmuted anything, despite doing the MCO and retention, is because there are still blockages to full love. Maybe emotional, belief caused, habitual...who knows. The solution? I'm not sure. Gentle reverse breathing, smiling, and feeling/"falling into" the love in the heart might help. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MnM Posted November 3, 2009 I think you are right. Whenever I'm doing this it helps. To some extent anyways. But from time to time it comes back. Now, this is not something I want to indulge, because I feel so much connected to life without it. And that always sands me few steps back. 'Guess it could be habitual.... In that case persistence is essential, and that I'm not lacking of. I'm devoted to love.... Just have to refine it. I'm always learning.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sloppy Zhang Posted November 3, 2009 I suggest some kind of thought observance/contemplation meditation, or maybe just emptiness meditation, or maybe meditation while contemplating on a certain concept (like love>lust). Seems like the physical/energetic work is there, but the corresponding working involving your view of the world/how your mind works is not. As in, when you aren't "distracted" by your wife, work, your oneness with the world, when all of that stuff is taken from you, your base desires are still there. So you need to work on 1) taking stock of what you have 2) doing something about it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MnM Posted November 3, 2009 Meditation is definitely something I need, because all of this stuff is from some emotional part of me. Physical/energetic part of the equation is something I learned to deal with. That is not a problem. It helps that my wife is very understanding and fully support my practice (hell, that is something she loves about me the most, and I don't think the sexual side of it). So the best progress I made, I made with her. I feel, that my mind is so expanded right now, and becomes more and more every day. I'm existing all around myself, and occasional baggage like this is really funny to me. So I guess that next logical thing for me is meditation with breathing. It's just that I'm so new to meditation and still figuring out how to menage to still myself for a certain period of time in order to meditate proper. But 'guess I made the hardest part already. Do you have some advice how to proper do this....? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
voidisyinyang Posted November 3, 2009 Get a phone energy transmission from Jim Nance or Chunyi Lin http://springforestqigong.com You underestimate your desire! You need MORE BLISS -- you're missing out!! haha. Too bad. Desire should be MAGNETIC and then like a LASER -- it BURNS with bliss! haha. The heart should be open. That's real bliss -- and then magic happens. I'm practicing retention and microcosmic orbit for quite some time.... Actually, when I think about it, for 8 years now. There was ups and downs, but the main thing is that progress is made after each one. In the beginning even when masturbating, I've never ejaculated, but use the build up energy to circulate through my orbit. While this was seamed like good thing to do, I always felt that something is missing. Spiritually, that only made huge step up, but I was not satisfied yet. 'Till recently I stopped with that, and now not only I have mind blowing full body orgasms with my wife, but also that same orgasms continue to last through rest of my day, and night and on and on.... My perception of world around me has gone through some changes, it seams to me that everything is inside of me, and I'm in everything.... Like I have new eyes, and that they are inside, or all around.... Amazing! But there is still something I should do, because often, when I'm alone, and wife's working, I feel strong sexual urge, and she is not there to "assist me". So in these moments porn sounds like something very tempting.... And don't get me wrong, I know how to drove back that build up energy so it would not bother me, that's not an issue. And I completely enjoy that experience which by itself can lead me to some fine body orgasms. But it seams like 'I just want sex....' And I love porn! Simple as that. Or is it? I don't know.... And I'm not superficial person, nor there is to it some hidden meaning.... So my question is, do any of you guys experience similar stuff? How you deal with that, or what do you think I should do? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MnM Posted November 3, 2009 That is really funny, man. Thank you, but I prefer to guide my desire to where it needs to be. And I don't underestimate anything. To many trial and errors spoke to it. Somehow I don't think that I have a problem with heart not being open up.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
voidisyinyang Posted November 3, 2009 O.K. let's be more specific. 10 climaxes in a row will open up the heart chakra but if those climaxes are external then you're just killing yourself! haha. I mean you can eat food to make up for the loss but you're not getting any energy up to your brain! So if you're still having external ejaculations then you're not creating electromagnetic fields. When the body is filled with ELECTROMAGNETIC FIELDS Then you experience the real bliss. And beyond that is the laser-love -- which again you can get from a phone healing. Still if you want to be a little toy-boy with your porn. haha. Please don't let me underestimate you. That is really funny, man. Thank you, but I prefer to guide my desire to where it needs to be. And I don't underestimate anything. To many trial and errors spoke to it. Somehow I don't think that I have a problem with heart not being open up.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MnM Posted November 3, 2009 Please don't let me underestimate you. No, no, you are humoring me.... You see, I don't think I remember the last time I ejaculated, simply don't feel need for it. Porn has never had any connection to that. As for climaxes it seams to me that sometimes 10 in a row is little for what I can have at certain point. Sometimes just looking at my wife. Again without ejaculation, but in my whole body. But that is not a must. And I practically always feel I'm full of electromagnetic energy, which cause all sorts of sensations in my perceptions of reality. That is priceless to me. And I'm macrobiotic, which means that balance is everything to me. Universal LOVE has always been my guide.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
voidisyinyang Posted November 3, 2009 Just sit in full-lotus. You're a real talker but YOU CAN'T FAKE THE FULL-LOTUS. No, no, you are humoring me.... You see, I don't think I remember the last time I ejaculated, simply don't feel need for it. Porn has never had any connection to that. As for climaxes it seams to me that sometimes 10 in a row is little for what I can have at certain point. Sometimes just looking at my wife. Again without ejaculation, but in my whole body. But that is not a must. And I practically always feel I'm full of electromagnetic energy, which cause all sorts of sensations in my perceptions of reality. That is priceless to me. And I'm macrobiotic, which means that balance is everything to me. Universal LOVE has always been my guide.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MnM Posted November 4, 2009 Now, see, that has no any sense what you said there. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trunk Posted November 4, 2009 Sounds to me like you are doing really well. Often I've found that my practices have little impact on the basics my of sexual cycle, tempo, enjoyment and need for sensual closeness. .. at least in relation to the popular goals that I now find narrow and extreme. What I do find are smaller changes. My centers are more open, I resonate more naturally with my partner. I recover faster, my cycle is smoother in some ways. Often my esoteric practices utilize sexual energy, and I like those inner connections that I merge with - but that doesn't necessarily translate to major changes to my normal physical behavior. My point is, meditation would probably be good for you (given that you're pretty well developed in some ways already and that this kind of work looks to be your natural inclination) - but it may or may not give you the results you're looking for (as stated in the first post of this thread). Here's the basic breathing meditation. You can do it during formal sitting time, and also you can do it for a few or more breaths any time. This principle is good to know about. It's not the first step in meditation progression, (and usually occurs through specific skillful method) but it's a key orientation point further down the road and it could be that you'll progress quickly. Trunk Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
宁 Posted November 4, 2009 what you are doing is not internal alchemy, is qigong, they belong to the first formula of Universal Tao System. when you start your Fusion practice, it's the first step towards internal alchemy. you really begin to work with alchemy once you start the Kan and Li process. like Trunk said, you are doing great!... just don't miss out on all that the system that you are practicing has to offer to you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MnM Posted November 4, 2009 Thank you Trunk and Little1, you said some pretty enlightening stuff there, for me. Both of you are totally right, and you helped me to distinguish some things already. I've learned something here. As you said Trunk: Often I've found that my practices have little impact on the basics my of sexual cycle, tempo, enjoyment and need for sensual closeness. .. at least in relation to the popular goals that I now find narrow and extreme. What I do find are smaller changes. My centers are more open, I resonate more naturally with my partner. I recover faster, my cycle is smoother in some ways. Often my esoteric practices utilize sexual energy, and I like those inner connections that I merge with - but that doesn't necessarily translate to major changes to my normal physical behavior. That is exactly what I'm feeling, and I think that meditation will give me results I'm seeking, because I often drift in some kind of meditative state, all by itself. Interesting thing is I always feel refreshed afterward. Your links gave pretty good insight in what direction I should lead myself.... And Little1, you are so right! There is always feeling with me, that my internal alchemy needs one more step, in order to work. And that is that felling of "not being satisfied with yet".... Because I always been more spiritual than anything else, and all purpose why I even started with practicing is because that is what seams to correspond with what I need. I would really want to know more on Kan and Li. Thank you both Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
markern Posted November 4, 2009 Sounds to me like you are doing really well. at least in relation to the popular goals that I now find narrow and extreme. Sounds like that to me two. I like the tone of your posts MNM. I think you are heading in a good direction. What goals are you refering to specifically Trunk? You have your diet down realy well and thats great. You have an awesome energetic base in terms of saving jing and ability to circulate it and you have reached quite high because of your feeling of connection etc. If you advance to the next level you will likely have very quick results because of this. There are a lot of ways to go further. One is as suggested by little1 to do fusion and then progress to the kan and li stuff and bascily follow some version of mantaks system. That will bring you the results. I personaly am going to try fusion for a while when I feel ready as my one attempt at doing it felt like this was a perfect way for me to harmonize myself. An unusualy high percentage of people in mantaks system has had problems. This is largely because of problems with the sexual practices you have mastered perfectly already, because of the phowa stuff and kan and li stuff that was mixed into fusion and, because of iron shirt and because of a lack of a good progression of basics, an overreliance on visualisation and lack of stillness meditation. Because of your basis you will have a lot less likelyhood of trouble and there are people who have sorted out how to do things right. Michael winn and andrew fretwell teaches fusion without the mistakes, Winn teaches iron shirt more gently and you can read about that on Trunks site. You can add some stilness meditation and gentle breathing yourself and make sure you work enough on your body and not just meditation. Michael Winns qigong fundamentals + some other stuff later on should be enough. Also if you realy work well on the inner smile early on your body will be much better prepared and you will more quickly sense where your limits are and not overdo. With these things in mind this can be a wonderfull system and it will give you results. Read up on Trunks site for advice on this system. Another option is KAP (kundalini awakening process). It is a system developed by Dr. Glenn morris, partly in cooperation with Santiago Dobles and Tao semko. It raises your kundalini unusualy fast and in a very safe and balanced way. Numerous people on this board now practice KAP and they are all very, very happy with the system and what it has done for them. With KAP your Kundalini should be up an running to a large degree within a year or two and possibly a lot sooner depending on individual factors. Santi and Tao also have a great reputation as teachers and give a lot of their time and energy for free. THeir website however looks like cheesy comercialism so don`t let that scare you cause it does not reflect them or their teachings. Once I have done fusion and stillness meditation (vipassana) for a good amount of time KAP is what I want to do in combination with Vipassana. KAP is made to be done in combination with some sort of insight meditation like Zen, Dsogchen or Vipassana. You can also read about the beginings of KAP in Dr . Glenn Morris Path notes of an american Ninja master. It only scethes very loosely what KAP teaches though. KAP has a lot of advanced sexual practices that might interest you a lot. Another option is to just do Vipassana. Vipassana has a very high likelyhood of leading you to stream entry (first level of enlightenment) in a few years time if you practice quite a lot, do some retreats and follow good instructions. Vipassana also has some very good maps over the territory of meditation that tells you were you are and what to do. Daniel Ingram has written a book about Vipassana that is a real masterpiece and usually leads to peoples progress increasing a lot. The book is free on his website. He also has a forum where you can get excellent guidance in vipassana. Michael Lomax (JA MU on this board) has a system called Stilness Movement. This system has also gotten great feedback by people here who practice it. It is a genuine taoist system. Unlike Mantaks stuff which is very much based on active visualization and manipulation of energy this system is much more based on sitting in stilness and spontainious movement. It is likely a very good system for overall health in addition to being a good alchemical path. You can read about his system in his book. Just find a post by him and there is a link to his book and his website in the bottom of his posts. To learn his system you will have to attend a workshop as it can not be learnt from books. His system is also based a lot around him raising your energy vibration during the workshop with transmissions. In his book he describes a technique for dual cultivation that I think is quite unique. I have received healings from him and they work very well. His posts are very sensible and he seems like a very nice guy. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MnM Posted November 4, 2009 Wow, I really loved you post. So informative! And I'm gonna read it couple of more times. Beautiful.... I think the reason why I had no problems with Mantak's system is because I never liked putting pressure on myself to achieve some goal. I took time and closely observed what my body was telling me. There was ups and downs, but never really problems. For some reason I've always been intuitive. As a matter of a fact, in the beginning I was convinced that visualization is necessary, but then feelings and sensations took over and I just let them. Seams so natural. Also diet is one of the most important things in my life, and I really love cooking, so naturally that lead to interest in Macrobiotics. Thank you for all references you gave me, and I think I'm gonna do more stillness meditations and then proceed to fusion and kan & li. Then will see.... And I'm gonna check out all of the stuff you recommended also. Michael Winn especially! I like him. Now, there is just one more thing that I need to find way to deal with.... I had that problem since I was a child, but seams that now as I progress more and more every day, it becomes bigger problem. I need to learn to shut other people out of my head! I feel them all the time.... I know what they think, I know what they feel, and let me tell you, people are not nice.... I often feel poisoned by mere fact that I cannot just shut them out. In the past that was interesting, and made so much easy conversations with certain people, and somewhat cool to be able to know what they are gonna say.... But now I am older, I got my own things to deal with, and I don't need other people pulling me into their world. There is some exceptions and I like those kind of people, but largely number of the rest is just not good for me. And most of a time I feel like just receiver sponging loads of bad vibes. For instance, just last year I worked in a hospital for nine months, and from that experience, it took nearly a year for me to recover. I did learn more control since then, but not enough yet, because it still bothers me. Usually when I'm tired, exhausted, worried or something, then I have crisis... 'Got to learn to deal with that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
voidisyinyang Posted November 4, 2009 Wait -- you've inspired a new genre: SPIRITUAL MASTER PORN http://www.shcstory.com/mystory.html Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MnM Posted November 4, 2009 (edited) drewhempel: Wait -- you've inspired a new genre: SPIRITUAL MASTER PORN Funny guy, aren't you? Edited November 4, 2009 by MnM Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
voidisyinyang Posted November 4, 2009 (edited) See I've got this problem -- wait I know -- Twin Body Blessing will solve it! http://www.seattleweekly.com/2001-09-05/ne...and-the-buddha/ drewhempel: Funny guy, aren't you? Edited November 4, 2009 by drewhempel Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MnM Posted November 4, 2009 I fail to see what are you trying to do here.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
voidisyinyang Posted November 4, 2009 EXACTLY! I fail to see what are you trying to do here.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MnM Posted November 4, 2009 (edited) EXACTLY! Ouh, then I guess you put me right in my place.... Sad man.... Really sad.... And such a shame.... Edited November 4, 2009 by MnM Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
