Little1, Neikung, houtian, Gamuret, and r.w.smith - the same person?

[r.w.smith]

This is going to be my final reply to RFunaki in regards to this matter.

 

Fair enough,i will give you the benefit of the doubt. Lets say you can view the ips innocently the way you said. But still man.......why did you send all these people (myself included) a website which you knew had no information on it , It makes no sense.

 

What was the real purpose behind this move ?

 

Peace,

[lino]

Specifically, the disguising of their IP addresses once they realized that I was on to them (After they realized, mind you).

 

So how does somebody "disguise" an IP address "after the fact"?

 

As far as I know, a person can only do it by breaking into the server and doctoring the server logs.

[VCraigP]

What's very funny to me, is the information I gathered from sending you those links. Now, for anyone that is unfamiliar with how this works, I will explain it:

 

 

Dear RFunaki

NOTE - OFFICIAL MODERATOR COMMENT

 

We have exchanged some dialog in PM about this issue.

 

You have now directly admitted what you did.

 

This is an ABUSE of TTB system.

 

Please apologize to all involved.

 

If anyone ever needs/wants this type of information the ONLY proper way to proceed is to make a request of the moderator. No gaurantees that anything will be done for you, but this is the ONLY proper channel.

 

I will be discussing this issue with the other moderators and you will hear back from me/them.

 

Craig

[RFunaki]

Craig,

I never denied what I did, and these links were on my own server. As I said before, these were just links. This situation was no different then one user sending another user a link - I just collected the information that all web servers log. This information is also not threatening, except in the situation in which you are trying to impersonate someone else - so I honestly don't believe I've done wrong. Yet, I understand that this all started here, so I can understand where you are coming from, and I apologize to all moderators/owner of this forum if this violated The Tao Bum's policy.

 

However, I do not feel I owe an apology to those that I implicated, as of yet. If I am wrong, I will. But the user has already admitted to me in PM's that he uses several identities on other forums, as well as previously on David's. This user also made some very serious claims about David that he has yet to back up.

 

If we can get to the bottom of this with any moderator's assistance, I can leave this forum after a final decision can be made and you can close my account if you like.

[RFunaki]

Two things that are worth mentioning that can be found right on this forum.

 

Little1 has impresonated other users before, and used it manipulate other users on this forum. He pretended to be the user MichelleD, same as he asmitted to doing on the Foundation Forum (identical usernames used on both forums also (and at the time of being on the foundation forum-identical avatars from what I recall)) and her previous posts can be found here:

 

http://www.thetaobums.com/search.html&...sult_type=posts

 

Also, in context to what I'm referring to, please also see the below post from this forum:

 

http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?showtopic=3696&hl=

 

Thanks,

- RFunaki

[Capital]

Is having multiple accounts against the rules, whether it's true or not?

 

I mean, does it make or break a post on an internet forum that the user has one/two/multiple accounts?

 

I mean, it would be foolish and odd, but this is the internet. Men are men, women are men, and children are the FBI, as it's said.

 

Why so serious?

 

^ Maybe I'm Ralis too! Cajralis, kekekeke.

[Pietro]

Dear RFunaki

 

We have exchanged some dialog in PM about this issue.

 

You have now directly admitted what you did.

 

This is an ABUSE of TTB system.

 

Please apologize to all involved.

 

If anyone ever needs/wants this type of information the ONLY proper way to proceed is to make a request of the moderator. No gaurantees that anything will be done for you, but this is the ONLY proper channel.

 

I will be discussing this issue with the other moderators and you will hear back from me/them.

 

Craig

 

Craig,

Moderators,

we never had such rule neither on this forum or on any previous version of this forum.

In no way are moderator allowed to gather informations about individual users by sending them to external links, while normal users are not allowed to do this.

 

Please reconsider.

Pietro

[Capital]

On other forums I've been on, moderators (or at least Admins) have been able to see IP addresses without sending people to fake sites. My twin brother and I were asked why we were on the same IP address, and we had to give pics in order for them to believe that we're twins.

 

I don't believe VCraigP is saying that the mods are the only ones allowed to do what RFunaki did. I believe he is saying that no one should do what RFunaki did, and that the only way IP addresses should ever be checked is by asking the mods/admins of whatever website to do so through their sanctioned methods.

[Pietro]

RFunaki,

nice job.

 

This forum has an history of doppleganger activity.

Maybe it is because people want to experiment with different personalities, maybe because they topic are somehow dangerous or tabu.

 

It all started long time ago, more than 10 years ago. At the time Eric, one of Mantak Chia senior instructor was the star of the forum. The only other people who are here now where me, Max, Plato, Trip. I am not sure if Craig, who just posted in this thread, was at the time among us. Eric would sign with the signature Senior Instructor. One person refused to submit to this subtle sign of authority, and started taking the piss of him. At the time there was no log in, in the forum. The forum was simply a board where we wrote stuff, and signed. Anyone could sign with other names.

 

A person started to sign with different names. Often names of people who were already there. You would go to the board, and find a post in your name, saying things you did not agree. Generally offensive. It was always so obvious that we all knew that the person writing was not the usual person. So it was not a big deal, back then.

 

Along the years we tried to gather information abut this person, and generally failed. At some point he crossed a first line, offended an user, this user declared he was not going to post again until log in where introduced. This is when James introduced log in in the forum. Eric was really angry with this guy, and accused Max and Plato to be behind him. This guy posted in many forms, and shape, but he was undeniably the same person.

With time he got better. He would learn a person style, and try to copy it. Some of the most funny posts over the year were from this very guy. At some point he crossed another line, and offended (to the point of wounding) one of the members. Thsi guy was quite young, and replied from the heart. As a result this guy, in his words, suddenly "became good". He took a name, and wrote mostly with that name. He would still from time to time write with other names, but now he had a name. We could refer to him. His name was Ron. Inspired from Ron Jeremy. We called him also Ronnie, Ronnie boy, Al-Salami, papi, Ronnie Tzu, and many other names. In some sense he was a riot. Quite litterally :-).

 

When the forum breaked up, and we decided to start our new forum, with the whole community, he was the guy who suggested the name "TaoBum". Inspired from the Dharma Bum (I think). By that time we all had email address of each other. Sean set up this forum, we moved here. Later we (mostly me) accused Sean of having taken over the forum, and split over. It was me, Max, Plato, Ron, Trip and Smile (not Smile-Max that posts here). The forum was a failure. Ron and Plato kept on using it to put pornography. In the meantime Ron would come here making fun of Sean and of his girlfriend. Eventually he crossed another line over here too, and Ron was banished from this forum. You can still find his posts in the pit. Of course you can banish a username, but not a user.

 

As the forum was a failure, me, Max and Plato, one by one, came back. Trip was the only who never came back. And Smile neither.

 

This user, the doppleganger, would always use proxy. I mean, all the time. Even after having discussed many things through email, and having set up multiple forums together, he would still always use a proxy. One time he was travelling in Europe, and Trip (which would by the time play chess with him daily), invited him to visit him in Zurich. He thought about it for a couple of days, and refused.

 

So after having banished Ron, we are somehow to the point where we started: There is a doppleganger in this forum. This is not really news, isn't it?

 

RFunaki, one question, if those people are the same people, why would the same person follow the same link two times? Doesn't the fact that he has followed the link to times imply that it was two different persons?

[Trip]

Me agree with da dude who say ya all should stand in the tree instead of making war on da TB forum (unless ya wanna join us for some Chess)! Trying to achieve nothing, who's got time for anything else...?

 

Greetings to all, MPD'd or not!

 

Trip

Edited November 6, 2009 by Trip

[VCraigP]

Craig,

Moderators,

we never had such rule neither on this forum or on any previous version of this forum.

In no way are moderator allowed to gather informations about individual users by sending them to external links, while normal users are not allowed to do this.

 

Please reconsider.

Pietro

 

Pietro

 

You have misinterpreted my message.

 

I am responding to something that HAS BEEN done by RFunaki.

 

PM coming your way

 

Craig

[minkus]

I didnt know the history behind TTB This makes things clearer.

 

Nice

[thelerner]

EDIT: For those that may think I'm David Verdesi or Sean Denty, I am willing to provide some proof on who I am for the moderators (Scan of old license, utility bill, etc) to get to the bottom of this. I have nothing to hide.

 

Thanks,

- RFunaki

 

I believe I speak for many when I say 'I don't care', it really doesn't matter. If somebody posts under 2 names or uses false ones, they need a life and to get away from the computer for a while, but unless they're really SPAMming up the board, its there (psychological) problem.

 

 

Michael

Edited November 6, 2009 by thelerner

[Neikung]

RFunaki,

nice job.

Pietro, did you know what he did? RFunaki has this crazy imaginary conspiracy theory that all 6 taobums members that casted doubt on David Verdesi are actually the same person. He PM us and told us to see his rebuttal to our posts:web site. Instead of a legitimate web site, he was actually examining the ip address activities and then came up with more conspiracy theory. This behavior is sickening and cult-like in my opinion and you call this a nice job?

[Smile]

Lets say you can view the ips innocently the way you said. But still man.......why did you send all these people (myself included) a website which you knew had no information on it , It makes no sense.

 

What was the real purpose behind this move ?

 

Peace,

 

Well, when you click his link and go to his site, he can check his logs and see where you came from, IP, time, browser, etc. With drive-by-download software, he can even auto-install a back-door script on your machine (depending on if your browser/system is updated or not) and use it to basically take full control of your computer by uploading additional software. I don't really think it is so... just giving an extreme example.

 

Still, even if you and others use proxy or the same IP, it may also mean you can use computers from the same Internet cafe that has the same Gateway... or simply sharing the same computer as friends. Also some ISPs can block certain websites, especially in China, so it's common to use the proxy to access them.

[Smile]

It all started long time ago, more than 10 years ago....

You are our official historian now.

[RFunaki]

RFunaki, one question, if those people are the same people, why would the same person follow the same link two times? Doesn't the fact that he has followed the link to times imply that it was two different persons?

 

Thank you for your post Pietro, I appreciate your insight into the past, it sheds some more light on this situation.

 

To answer your above question, Lttile1 first visited the link with his actual IP address. It was just a 404 page, it had no actual information on it. All that is necessary to gather the information is to be directed to the server, I used identifying filenames (tagged them with specific letters depending on who I sent them to to differentiate the requests) to seperate who was who. r.w.smith was next to check the link, he first visited it once, refreshed - then must have realized what was going on, and revisited the page from two additional IP addresses (One that was specifically a proxy IP used for the purpose of being anonymous, as can be checked publically in most cases) The even more interesting part about this is, the rest of the users, excluding Neikung, did not visit the page. (Neikung did, about a day later, also with a proxy IP address). Even without the IP information, I find it peculiar that all the users (about 7 I believe) somehow were suspicious of the activity, and did not visit the link with no apparent forewarning. Why is that? I'm not sure if it happens to all users, but PM's popup after I login for the first time, would this have not happened to these additional users? In which case, they would have known before hand, but r.w.smith's post about it was only after he visited and considerably later. His post was also several topics down at most points, so it seems unlikely that they were to see his post, and then decide not to visit the link. In my opinion, they did not visit the link because they knew what it was from a previous user's link, which would imply that they are either the same person, or work closely together. Also, one of the users also stated they visited the link, but did not.

 

But, judging from the two actual IP addresses I received, I considered the possibility that r.w.smith is a different person from Little1. The identities might be split up between those two users, but I am unsure at this point. What I do find odd about r.w.smith is that he comes from the same location as a user from the past who has been causing trouble for 5+ years, having a history of impersonating identities, and also secret ill intent/agenda. These users have been kicked out of several forums, including the MoPai forum. Andreas forum required a utility bill or some other forum of payment to join it when it opened up, for this reason. Because someone would continually impersonate identities. I originally bundled this all with Little1, because of his exchanges with me via PM (in which he admit using multiple identities, on other forums also) - but given that this situation might span several years, it is entirely possible there is one more person in the group. (In which case, this isn't a childish game, it represents a very odd, potentially serious issue if a group of people will continue this for years)

 

To Smile:

I considered the situation you speak of about proxies. However, since they first used their real IP address, many of the situations wouldn't apply. Also, if they were coming from the same gateway/internet cafe even, their user agent strings would be different unless they were using identical operating systems, browsers, and browser framework. Cookies could also be used as a non-instrusive way of identifying unique users given that situation, if it were to occur.

 

To Micheal (thelerner),

I understand that many might not care, and that is good actually, then that would mean that the propaganda that he is spreading isn't working. My only issue is the false information he is putting out there. I have continually asked him to back up the information he is spreading, and his only method is to back himself up with another identity that he has created. I am only making this effort to stop this from occuring. If he wouldn't be using these identities to bash David with information that is not backed up, I would not care, the same as you.

 

Thanks,

- RFunaki

[宁]

Rick, you're wrong. Very.

[Smile]

r.w.smith was next to check the link, he first visited it once, refreshed - then must have realized what was going on, and revisited the page from two additional IP addresses (One that was specifically a proxy IP used for the purpose of being anonymous, as can be checked publically in most cases)

Since some of the people here are overseas, some ISPs may block content. Why would r.w.smith visit you link and then re-visit it a minute later with a proxy because it didn't work the first time? First, because he had some trust in you and to resolve the argument. Second, to verify it's not his ISP that causes the page to display the error. I mean, why would a person that he's trying to come to some kind of agreement send him to the non-existing page. That's just silly, right?

 

Your mind is playing trick on you, bro. This thread should be locked and forgotten because there is one thing that is missing to ever fix your disagreement - TRUST. You simply don't trust some people here and even if they tell you when and where, it will be their word against David's. Sinse I doubt David will change his story, so it will be a choice who to trust. And thus, this argument to veryfy something is pointless, especially after the trick you pulled on some people here.

 

I happened to defend David and SeanD in lots of cases, but I also have an open mind and understand why people see inconsistencies with his claims. Since David keeps changing his teachers like gloves, why would you think it woudn't raise any questions? Every teacher gets it here... it's the way the forum works where different people have different opinions and different life stories. But one thing is certain - facts without the trust of your peers means nothing here.

Be well,

Max

[VCraigP]

Simple wisdom.

 

and Discernment.

 

Cuts to the heart of the matter.

 

Done.

 

 

Craig

[Martial Development]

 

I am Spartacus!

[Capital]

No! I'm Spartacus!

[thepath]

The even more interesting part about this is, the rest of the users, excluding Neikung, did not visit the page. (Neikung did, about a day later, also with a proxy IP address). Even without the IP information, I find it peculiar that all the users (about 7 I believe) somehow were suspicious of the activity, and did not visit the link with no apparent forewarning. Why is that? I'm not sure if it happens to all users, but PM's popup after I login for the first time, would this have not happened to these additional users? In which case, they would have known before hand, but r.w.smith's post about it was only after he visited and considerably later. His post was also several topics down at most points, so it seems unlikely that they were to see his post, and then decide not to visit the link. In my opinion, they did not visit the link because they knew what it was from a previous user's link, which would imply that they are either the same person, or work closely together. Also, one of the users also stated they visited the link, but did not.

 

I have visited the link you have sent several times, even one or two more times a couple of hours later.

 

Either you have problem with your server logs or you are distorting the truth.

[Neikung]

cases) The even more interesting part about this is, the rest of the users, excluding Neikung, did not visit the page. (Neikung did, about a day later, also with a proxy IP address). Even without the IP information, I find it peculiar that all the users (about 7 I believe) somehow were suspicious of the activity, and did not visit the link with no apparent forewarning. Why is that? I'm not sure if it happens to all users, but PM's popup after I login for the first time, would this have not happened to these additional users? In which case, they would have known before hand, but r.w.smith's post about it was only after he visited and considerably later. His post was also several topics down at most points, so it seems unlikely that they were to see his post, and then decide not to visit the link. In my opinion, they did not visit the link because they knew what it was from a previous user's link, which would imply that they are either the same person, or work closely together. Also, one of the users also stated they visited the link, but did not.

Rick, your mind is tricking you. I have nothing to hide and didn't use any proxy server (at least not on purpose, I wouldn't know if my ISP did that automatically). May be your computer skill is not as good as you think?

[YMWong]

But, judging from the two actual IP addresses I received, I considered the possibility [...]

 

Oh boy, you are totally deluded and dishonest: in chinese we say 名師出高徒 (An accomplished disciple owes his accomplishments to his great teacher) and in this respect you finely represent your teacher ...

 

YM

Edited November 7, 2009 by YMWong