Practices for Spiritual Enlightenment

[secularfuture]

When ever I research Qigong, I always run into material on how to heal my body, or improve my libido. Do the spiritual practices that focus on becoming one with the Tao have a specific name or category? Perhaps if I knew this name, it would be easier for me to do my research.

 

Your help would be appreciated.

[nac]

By, um... being true to yourself and not doing anything unnatural that will make you stray from your path?

[Encephalon]

These really aren't questions you should be submitting to this forum. The available literature is vast, as you know. Even a quick literature review should prepare you for more thoughtful Q&A. If your questions are truly this uninformed then your research of qigong needs to be a little more robust.

 

It's not my intention to patronize you, but really, you owe it to yourself to dig a little deeper before depending on the Net for spiritual advice. There are a handful of folks in here who have very sound advice about personal practice. Honor your own ability to learn, to do research, to find answers.

 

Best of luck.

[secularfuture]

By, um... being true to yourself and not doing anything unnatural that will make you stray from your path?

I think the phrase I'm looking for is "internal alchemy."

 

It's not my intention to patronize you, but really, you owe it to yourself to dig a little deeper before depending on the Net for spiritual advice.

I'm not asking for spiritual advice. I'm looking for the word that defines the spiritual practices in Taoism.

[nac]

You're already on the great Way. If you lose sight of it, just be yourself and you'll find it again. (or something like that)

 

Have you read Chuang Tzu, Yang Chu and co.? http://www.sacred-texts.com/tao/index.htm Marblehead has an excellent series on introductory Taoist philosophy.

 

I think the phrase I'm looking for is "internal alchemy."

Oh. Sorry, I know nothing about that kind of thing.

 

PS. There are links and guides all over this forum, such as: http://alchemicaltaoism.com/ I'm not sure how it's supposed to lead you back to the Tao though.

Edited November 7, 2009 by nac

[hagar]

I'm going out on a limb here, (is it limb or lim?)... but here goes.

 

Enlightenment really has no place in Daoist practices as a concept. You may stumble upon it as a concept in Buddhist-influenced texts, yet its as out of place as a pizza restaurant in the Norwegian mountains.

 

Come to think of it, there are quite a number of pizza restaurants in the Norwegian mountains, so I see that this argument kind of fell apart.

 

If you want to study internal alchemy go see a master. Guesswork will waste years. Books about the subject are only for academic interest. They really lead you astray, as they are translated by academics, not practitioners.

 

There are a number of "sitting and forgetting" type practices that are grounded in opening the body and mind to the bigger, symbolic nature of our real form. They realign you with the cosmic energy and information.

 

h

[Vajrahridaya]

 

 

Enlightenment really has no place in Daoist practices as a concept. You may stumble upon it as a concept in Buddhist-influenced texts, yet its as out of place as a pizza restaurant in the Norwegian mountains.

 

 

Buddhism is quite clear about what liberation from all levels of psychological suffering is, and it's not merely feeling good and happy in the now, it's feeling good and happy even after you die and offering that continuously.

 

It's not caught up in unclear ambiguity. It's quite clear that the identity of universal energy is a mis-cognition brought upon by a mis-interpretation of "spiritual" experience. A very blissful and seemingly knowledgeable mis-cognition, but erroneous none the less.

 

Buddhas know and show the difference between suffering in this life and afterwards, and not suffering in this life and afterwards. As well as how to benefit endless beings throughout endless time and never makes excuses for ignorance.

 

It's a simple duality, that does not hold up to investigation as a self or Self, but does hold up to relative reality, which is really all we are dealing with here, ever. Everything is clear cut, the only ambiguity is our own inability to recognize what's really going on.

 

Enlightenment is being filled with all the positive qualities of being and endarkenment is the opposite.

 

Not that either are real in and of themselves, but for practical purposes, there is a huge and vast difference between being enlightened, and merely thinking that one knows better through a clever manipulation of conceptual structure through non-conceptual excuses.

 

P.s. No offence Hagar, just thought I'd also offer up a different perspective.

Edited November 7, 2009 by Vajrahridaya

[secularfuture]

Edited November 7, 2009 by secularfuture

[nac]

"Inner Alchemy or Neidan ...

 

I despise Buddhism... It looks very nice on the surface, but much of its philosophy points toward renunciation and sexual repression. I'd rather look to Taoism, a natural philosophy that points to natural solutions.

You've misunderstood Buddhism IMO. Half of us are at least interested in Buddhism. I am a Buddhist.

 

Anyway, I hope you find what you're looking for. See ya!

[Taomeow]

I was just looking for a word.

Neigong.

[sheng zhen]

I'm not asking for spiritual advice. I'm looking for the word that defines the spiritual practices in Taoism.

Shen Gong

[hagar]

Buddhism is quite clear about what liberation from all levels of psychological suffering is, and it's not merely feeling good and happy in the now, it's feeling good and happy even after you die and offering that continuously.

 

It's not caught up in unclear ambiguity. It's quite clear that the identity of universal energy is a mis-cognition brought upon by a mis-interpretation of "spiritual" experience. A very blissful and seemingly knowledgeable mis-cognition, but erroneous none the less.

 

Buddhas know and show the difference between suffering in this life and afterwards, and not suffering in this life and afterwards. As well as how to benefit endless beings throughout endless time and never makes excuses for ignorance.

 

It's a simple duality, that does not hold up to investigation as a self or Self, but does hold up to relative reality, which is really all we are dealing with here, ever. Everything is clear cut, the only ambiguity is our own inability to recognize what's really going on.

 

Enlightenment is being filled with all the positive qualities of being and endarkenment is the opposite.

 

Not that either are real in and of themselves, but for practical purposes, there is a huge and vast difference between being enlightened, and merely thinking that one knows better through a clever manipulation of conceptual structure through non-conceptual excuses.

 

P.s. No offence Hagar, just thought I'd also offer up a different perspective.

 

No offense taken.

 

Actually, I seem to not have answered the question.

 

"Non-conceptual excuses..."

 

Shen Zhen and Taomeows answers are pretty spot on.

 

h

[forestofclarity]

I always find it odd how people on this forum are so obsessed about the supposed flavor of their truth. "Taoist truth for me," some say. Others, "Only Buddhist truth."

 

A lot of people claim they want some sort of enlightenment, then place all these conditions on it. I only want it if it makes me healthy and strong, if it comes from Buddhist scripture, if it lets me do get women, or feel blissed ut, or whatever.

 

It reminds me of a starving man, wandering through the desert, parched and drying, who is offered water and beans. "No thanks," he says, "I think I'll wait for the filet mignon."

[Vajrahridaya]

I despise Buddhism... It looks very nice on the surface, but much of its philosophy points toward renunciation and sexual repression. I'd rather look to Taoism, a natural philosophy that points to natural solutions.

 

Not Vajrayana. Unless you take vows of monkhood which some do at first only to re-invent themselves and the way they experience their inner energy. Renunciation is a very good practice at first. But, only to build up the energy from within to later integrate more openly with what "is".

 

The form that I practice is Dzogchen which requires absolutely no renunciation or sexual repression and is all about integration of view and method with what "is" without denying or craving.

 

I think your view of Buddhism has been conditioned by a lack of information and understanding. But, follow your pulse I suppose. Your karmas have lead you to where you feel more comfortable. It can be beneficial, or not, depending on how you utilize what comes.

 

 

I do notice people throw the word, "natural" around without much contemplation. As if it were just some big universal truth! What comes naturally is merely habit patterns governed by lifetimes of fear and craving, propagating the species. What I love about Buddhism as it's very clear about the causes of suffering and doesn't make excuses of, "it's only natural."

 

Though, in Buddhism, it's said that "enlightenment is merely recognizing how nature works." Different methods work for different levels of realization. People who have strong cravings and attachments need to renounce at first in order to re-align their energy through a process of transformation, but this is merely a means and not an end. Enlightenment itself requires merely the inner renouncing wrong views and ego clinging. Nothing at all to do with sexual repression or repression of any sort, this would be the side effect of misunderstanding the Buddhas teachings. Thus, not Buddhism at all, but merely a human predicament when it comes to mis-understanding religion as a whole, as most people do.

 

Thus people see these majority followers mis-understanding their own path and turn to unhealthy feelings like, "despise" which keep them from looking more deeply. Despise is a pretty hateful and unhealthy feeling I'd say.

 

 

 

 

There are a number of "sitting and forgetting" type practices that are grounded in opening the body and mind to the bigger, symbolic nature of our real form. They realign you with the cosmic energy and information.

 

h

 

Also Hagar,

 

I'm not disagreeing with you either, as you are absolutely right on a relative level.

 

I'm saying that I agree with you, but that what you are saying is merely a method, and not the whole truth, because there is in fact the relative and that's what we are working on here.

 

 

 

 

It reminds me of a starving man, wandering through the desert, parched and drying, who is offered water and beans. "No thanks," he says, "I think I'll wait for the filet mignon."

 

That's funny.

 

But, when it comes to spirituality, one should find the path that cuts the most clearly. For me, it's Buddhist view applied to every spiritual tradition I read on and about. With this I see the wisdom in the other traditions without getting sucked into the idea of an absolute nature of some sort which most seem to posit as a true existent.

 

Taoism seems closest to Dzogchen and some forms of Vajrayana to me in many ways. Which is probably why I've always, my entire life had an affinity towards it, not to mention past life memories.

 

Edited November 7, 2009 by Vajrahridaya

[Iskote]

When ever I research Qigong, I always run into material on how to heal my body, or improve my libido. Do the spiritual practices that focus on becoming one with the Tao have a specific name or category? Perhaps if I knew this name, it would be easier for me to do my research.

Your help would be appreciated.

 

The spiritual practices that can be named are not the real name.

More seriously, cultivating virtue, helping others whenever you can, and calming and relaxing

the mind/body as best you can while sitting, standing, walking, or lying down are practices that have

been cited by some as being essential in spiritual cultivation from the Taoist perspective. The Tao Te Ching

goes into further detail.

IMO, you can't separate spiritual cultivation from any other aspect of your life whatsoever.

 

Best wishes...

Edited November 7, 2009 by Iskote

[Encephalon]

I despise Buddhism... It looks very nice on the surface, but much of its philosophy points toward renunciation and sexual repression.

 

This gets my vote for the uninformed comment of the week.

 

Proclaiming that you despise Buddhism is like saying you despise music or candy. Do you despise Brittany Spears and the Back Street Boys, or is it Miles Davis and John Mclaughlin that really inspires revulsion? Do you puke at the thought of Tootsie Rolls or gourmet chocolate-covered pecans?

 

Buddhism is not represented by a monolithic voice, and a cursory reading of the history of the philosophy should make that obvious. It blends in with indiginous ideas throughout time and place; it is practiced differently in Thailand than in San Francisco. Nor does it have anything to do with forced renunciation or sexual repression. It's about getting in touch with your instincts and environmental conditioning so that you are not taken hostage by them. You can be a devout Buddhist and still have an exciting sex life; problems arise when you can't control your urges, your desire, your indulgences.

 

I honor your secular allegiances. I was a critical thinking junkie in college and I've become even more convinced of the wisdom of a humanistic approach as I get older. There is a vibrant movement of agnostic Buddhism afoot, mostly inspired by Stephen Batchelor whose magnificent work "Buddhism Without Beliefs" and his soon to be released "Confession of a Buddhist Atheist" have reconciled humanistic sensibilities with the psychological tools of Buddhist mind training.

 

http://www.insightla.org/schedule_details....&adref=menu

 

A little gentleness and cognitive hygiene is in order here, pal. Making enemies with entire philosophical traditions is a proclamation of spiritual infancy.

[TzuJanLi]

Greetings..

 

I do notice people throw the word, "natural" around without much contemplation. As if it were just some big universal truth! What comes naturally is merely habit patterns governed by lifetimes of fear and craving, propagating the species. What I love about Buddhism as it's very clear about the causes of suffering and doesn't make excuses of, "it's only natural."

Hi Vajrahridaya: No, you don't 'notice', you observe through darkly colored glasses.. one who 'notices' does just that, without applying preconceptions.. What comes 'naturally' is what has evolved the Cosmos into its current magnificent manifestation..No, what you have done is project the programmed suffering onto Nature itself.. It seems 'what you love about Buddhism is the infinite number of ways it provides you to endlessly and self-righteously tell others how 'right' it is.. which, is wrong-action, of course..

 

There is nothing 'natural' about suffering.. suffering is the condition caused by not doing anything to end the causes of pain, hunger, abuse, oppression, injustice, etc.. and, not doing anything, either by the afflicted or the capable, is ignorance.. if the afflicted are incapable, the capable are bound by natural compassion to act as advocates.. pretty simple and natural.

 

Be well..

Edited November 7, 2009 by TzuJanLi

[C T]

"How does one get closer to the Tao?"

 

Answer: Move further away from the Tao. (Try it?)

 

Thats all.

 

Here's a little story that kinda has a place here :

 

In ancient China, students of the Tao are usually with their teachers 10 years before they are permitted to teach others. Kuo-xin was visited by Hui Ching, who, having passed his apprenticeship, had begun to teach. The day happened to be rainy, so Hui Ching wore wooden clogs and carried an umbrella. After greeting him, Kuo-xin remarked, "I suppose you left your wooden clogs in the hallway. I want to know if you had left your umbrella on the left side or the right side of your clogs?"

 

Hui Ching, confused, had no instant answer. He realized then and there he was not yet able to carry his Tao every moment. He became Kuo-xin's student, and studied with him for another 6 years to accomplish his every-moment Tao.

 

Zenny Tao..

Edited November 7, 2009 by CowTao

[Eviander]

I actually might be closer to the tao than you because of my lack of desire to be closer to the tao..

 

but then again..what is the Tao?

 

Can you name something as un-nameable as is such which that can be

[doc benway]

 

If you want to study internal alchemy go see a master. Guesswork will waste years. Books about the subject are only for academic interest. They really lead you astray, as they are translated by academics, not practitioners.

 

 

If you are serious about Daoist cultivation, please re-read Hagar's post.

He tells the truth here (edit - as always)

There are many things you can learn from a book, video, or the internet.

Daoist cultivation is not one of them.

Good luck.

Edited November 8, 2009 by steve f

[secularfuture]

You've misunderstood Buddhism IMO. Half of us are at least interested in Buddhism. I am a Buddhist.

I was a Theravada Buddhist for 3 years. It has some good philosophy, but the philosophy as a whole isn't for me. I find Taoism to be more compatible with my worldview.

 

Anyway, I hope you find what you're looking for. See ya!

Thank you.

 

Neigong.

Thank you.

 

Shen Gong

Thank you.

 

Not Vajrayana.

I'll admit, I don't know much about Vajrayana, but I didn't get along at all with the Theravada and the so-called Mahayana.

 

Renunciation is a very good practice at first. But, only to build up the energy from within to later integrate more openly with what "is".

That sounds better than what I heard.

 

The form that I practice is Dzogchen which requires absolutely no renunciation or sexual repression and is all about integration of view and method with what "is" without denying or craving.

That's fine.

 

I do notice people throw the word, "natural" around without much contemplation. As if it were just some big universal truth! What comes naturally is merely habit patterns governed by lifetimes of fear and craving, propagating the species. What I love about Buddhism as it's very clear about the causes of suffering and doesn't make excuses of, "it's only natural."

We are all the victims of our "habit patterns." I see Taoism as a way to break from these habits so that we can go along less stressful paths, and move closer to Tao.

 

The spiritual practices that can be named are not the real name.

 

More seriously, cultivating virtue, helping others whenever you can, and calming and relaxing

the mind/body as best you can while sitting, standing, walking, or lying down are practices that have

been cited by some as being essential in spiritual cultivation from the Taoist perspective. The Tao Te Ching

goes into further detail.

IMO, you can't separate spiritual cultivation from any other aspect of your life whatsoever.

 

Best wishes...

Thank you.

 

I despise Buddhism... It looks very nice on the surface, but much of its philosophy points toward renunciation and sexual repression.

 

This gets my vote for the uninformed comment of the week.

I'm not just pulling that out of my butt.

 

Some teachers teach this way.

 

For example:

 

"In summary, Buddhist meditation is a gradual method of renunciation."

-- Ajahn Brahm

Edited November 8, 2009 by secularfuture