Sunrise in Rondane national park in Norway

[33865_1494798762]

what can I say ...

[TheSongsofDistantEarth]

Awesomely beautiful!!!

[Marblehead]

Yes. Absolutely Beautiful!!!

 

(But I wouldn't want to be there - too freaking cold!

 

Peace & Love!

[33865_1494798762]

Yes. Absolutely Beautiful!!!

 

(But I wouldn't want to be there - too freaking cold!

 

Peace & Love!

 

well maybe not for very long time. Soon we will be wishing we went there in time to experience real winter.

[Marblehead]

[joeblast]

we'll all enjoy snow for the rest of our lives, unless of course we move close enough to the equator. solar cycle 24, that was predicted to be huge, went in exactly the opposite direction and now its looking like sc24 might not even wind up having a peak.

2009 total: 239 days (77% spotless)

Since 2004: 750 days

Typical Solar Min: 485 days

 

computer generated curiosities begot this farcical demonization of CO2 as climate killer. f-a-n-t-a-s-y

[Marblehead]

CO2 as climate killer. f-a-n-t-a-s-y

 

I'm not going to disagree with you because I am too lazy to do the research in order to make a reliable post.

 

But I would agree that CO2 is not the only thing that is effecting the warming trend.

 

Peace & Love!

[joeblast]

then why do you "believe"...

 

climate changes...magnetic fields are where its at - the sun's dynamo & field change, affects the earth's dynamo & field...

 

 

 

[Marblehead]

then why do you "believe"...

 

Fair question. My belief is based on the fact that I believe that we are being very wasteful with the resources of the planet. I believe that industry can do most of what it does in a much more conservative manner.

 

Yes, there are many natural events in our solar system that determine the varying climates of the planet and how these change over time. The Sahara Desert used to be a very green place, with trees, grasslands, rivers, and aquatic animals.

 

Ice ages come and go. It was at least two of these that allow the people who became the Native Americans to migrate to the Americas.

 

And the ever-changing magnetic poles of the planet play an important part as well.

 

But all said, we humans are a very wasteful animal of the resources of the planet. And what we do will likely play a part of the Earth's health in the future. The softer we walk the fewer footprints we will leave.

 

Peace & Love!

[Smile]

But all said, we humans are a very wasteful animal of the resources of the planet. And what we do will likely play a part of the Earth's health in the future. The softer we walk the fewer footprints we will leave.

I totally agree. The problem with Al Gore and other idiots is they do nothing to stop that. It's all about making $ in carbon credit trading. Even if it was caused by CO2 (with no evidence to support it), there are much better and more practical ways to lower the levels as most of it generated by the modern farming industry, including meat production. Even Gore's adviser proposed a better solution to him, but unfortunately it was refused because there is no $ in it. http://researchris.blogspot.com/2009/11/go...lutions-to.html

[TheSongsofDistantEarth]

JoeBlast and Smile, you guys would have more credibility if you didn't keep hitting on Al Gore doing the Climate Change things for the "carbon credit money". Why are you guys so emotionally invested in discrediting the climate change arguments? I know! You guys must be making money from exploiting natural resources!!

Edited November 10, 2009 by TheSongsofDistantEarth

[Smile]

JoeBlast and Smile, you guys would have more credibility if you didn't keep hitting on Al Gore doing the Climate Change things for the "carbon credit money". Why are you guys so emotionally invested in discrediting the climate change arguments? I know! You guys must be making money from exploiting natural resources!!

Hehe, that's easy. I do it because what the Big Gov and Gore are doing is not solving the problem, only taxing businesses more for doing the same thing they are doing. If they wanted a real climate solution they would go and change the big agro businesse and allow the car companies to create a car that can run 200 miles/gallon instead of killing inventors or buying out their patents that will get burried right after. Just like medical industry, it's all about the profit and not a removal of the real problem. Did they stop cutting Amazon forest or dumping garbage in the ocean? Exactly!

 

BTW, sorry for sidetracking your thread...

[joeblast]

JoeBlast and Smile, you guys would have more credibility if you didn't keep hitting on Al Gore doing the Climate Change things for the "carbon credit money". Why are you guys so emotionally invested in discrediting the climate change arguments? I know! You guys must be making money from exploiting natural resources!!

Its an exponentially more solid statement than when I've gotten the "you must be on the payroll of big oil...or big...something..else..."

 

Emotionally invested?? My wallet's invested too, man...if they pass laws based on this shoddy science pushed by the AGW orthodoxy, the majority of my country is going to suffer a loss in their standard of living, for years if not generations. If it gets done on a global scale, we'll still take the initial brunt of it, but a whole host of other nations will have their assets pillaged as well, and the "redistribution" will be a pittance for the "disadvantaged" countries once overhead and taxes and taxes and taxes are removed. I suppose therefore I may make the case that my "investment" is out of compassion for my fellow human being, for it will likely affect me significantly less than a lot of other people

 

Its kinda like this: I dont go for bullshit "solutions" that wont fix the problem, or "the problem." Its why I dont support the progressive healthcare initiatives being put forth - because they will not even address much less fix the problem they purport to be after: rising healthcare prices.

 

I'm not going to pay lip service to some feel good facade built on a mountain of bullshit

[TheSongsofDistantEarth]

Its an exponentially more solid statement than when I've gotten the "you must be on the payroll of big oil...or big...something..else..."

 

Emotionally invested?? My wallet's invested too, man...if they pass laws based on this shoddy science pushed by the AGW orthodoxy, the majority of my country is going to suffer a loss in their standard of living, for years if not generations. If it gets done on a global scale, we'll still take the initial brunt of it, but a whole host of other nations will have their assets pillaged as well, and the "redistribution" will be a pittance for the "disadvantaged" countries once overhead and taxes and taxes and taxes are removed. I suppose therefore I may make the case that my "investment" is out of compassion for my fellow human being, for it will likely affect me significantly less than a lot of other people

 

Its kinda like this: I dont go for bullshit "solutions" that wont fix the problem, or "the problem." Its why I dont support the progressive healthcare initiatives being put forth - because they will not even address much less fix the problem they purport to be after: rising healthcare prices.

 

I'm not going to pay lip service to some feel good facade built on a mountain of bullshit

 

Hey if GW is not true, I will be ecstatic! If you guys can convince me of it, please do! But like professional 'debunkers' you don't seem neutral, but seem to have an axe to grind and by being so, you appear biased, and people turn off to you. JoeB, you've started a couple of threads on this before, and no one seems to pay any attention...so, either this is not the right forum, or perhaps taking a more moderate tone than "Al Gore is out for carbon bucks" might get you more converts.

 

Just sayin'

[33865_1494798762]

Hey if GW is not true, I will be ecstatic! If you guys can convince me of it, please do! But like professional 'debunkers' you don't seem neutral, but seem to have an axe to grind and by being so, you appear biased, and people turn off to you. JoeB, you've started a couple of threads on this before, and no one seems to pay any attention...so, either this is not the right forum, or perhaps taking a more moderate tone than "Al Gore is out for carbon bucks" might get you more converts.

 

Just sayin'

 

oh but GW is a fact and human activity is setting a massive mark on the enviroment already, GW or not.

 

The problem is that humans are falcified by ideas like "private property" and the fantasy of profit and optimization of growth rate. That is what is causing the nightmare, nobody want to debate.

 

What makes me wonder is how a litle mark from my part about winter or not (the picture!) in the future, can turn away the original intention why I displayed the picture?

 

A icon of wonder and beauty seems to be the mother of hate - now, does that apply to the life in general?

Edited November 11, 2009 by Guest

[Marblehead]

Yeah, Global Warming is one of those issues where, I think, there will never be a consensus.

 

I think that most individuals would agree that we need to utilize the resources of the planet in a better manner. But when you start talking about how much more moey is taken out of the individual's pocket most would begin to protest in one way or another.

 

Those who have nothing would complain because they have nothing to loose. Others might not complain because they have more money than they need a the loss of a couple hundred dollars would be nothing for them. But the majority, I think, would complain.

 

Even on an international level, why would an affluent nation want to decrease its output of manufactured goods just so some under-developed nation could industrialize and in turn cause more pollution and global warming?

 

But in the long term, if man is causing excessive pollution to the planet man will pay for his folly. Maybe not you and I but someone will pay.

 

Peace & Love!

[33865_1494798762]

Yeah, Global Warming is one of those issues where, I think, there will never be a consensus.

 

I think that most individuals would agree that we need to utilize the resources of the planet in a better manner. But when you start talking about how much more moey is taken out of the individual's pocket most would begin to protest in one way or another.

 

Those who have nothing would complain because they have nothing to loose. Others might not complain because they have more money than they need a the loss of a couple hundred dollars would be nothing for them. But the majority, I think, would complain.

 

Even on an international level, why would an affluent nation want to decrease its output of manufactured goods just so some under-developed nation could industrialize and in turn cause more pollution and global warming?

 

But in the long term, if man is causing excessive pollution to the planet man will pay for his folly. Maybe not you and I but someone will pay.

 

Peace & Love!

 

Man's global problems, is that we effortly have excluded ourselves from the community - life on earth.

 

We are educated in the belief that we are worth more and so we are more important than all other organisms on earth, and this mistake is our couse of failure, that will take us out as a species - for good.

 

May future generations learn this and change there course.

Edited November 11, 2009 by Guest

[joeblast]

[33865_1494798762]

Edited November 11, 2009 by Guest

[TheSongsofDistantEarth]

 

BTW, how many gw related threads have I started? Zero that I recall, because I've simply been replying to things people say on the subject.

 

 

ding dong, the stick is dead

 

Waxman Malarkey

 

I can understand why you forgot about these, anybody dealing with a possible backyotomy really has their hands full...

[joeblast]

true, but they did reside in OT

 

why dont I read the science news...where'd you get those statements, greenpeace? yes, let's tear down our entire society so that the earth can just sit in harmony! technological evolution is part of the evolution of the universe, garbage happens, and of course it is proper to clean your mess - but it isnt proper to deconstruct simply because a mess is a possibility. the way you list those things entirely denies the benefits that have resulted! I mean, trees...did you know that forests grow back? and in the US they are growing back faster than they are being cut? you make it sound like we still empty our pots out the window .... Heads Up!!!

 

I'm not anti-environment, quite the opposite - but I do not support halting progress of the human race to make sure everything's sterilized

[TheSongsofDistantEarth]

true, but they did reside in OT

 

why dont I read the science news...where'd you get those statements, greenpeace? yes, let's tear down our entire society so that the earth can just sit in harmony! technological evolution is part of the evolution of the universe, garbage happens, and of course it is proper to clean your mess - but it isnt proper to deconstruct simply because a mess is a possibility. the way you list those things entirely denies the benefits that have resulted! I mean, trees...did you know that forests grow back? and in the US they are growing back faster than they are being cut? you make it sound like we still empty our pots out the window .... Heads Up!!!

 

I'm not anti-environment, quite the opposite - but I do not support halting progress of the human race to make sure everything's sterilized

 

 

Hey, no worries, JoeB. Never say never. We'll let you slide on the Glenn Beck reference in one of those threads you started and also the "Vajrahridaya Infraction" of exceeding the accepted smiley-to-word ratio in the above post.

 

Hey, while were at it, is there any value in old-growth forests? Also, if there is 'deforestation' (the permanent conversion of forest to human use, like in the rain forest or in Malaysia), does that count in the declining tree population?

Edited November 11, 2009 by TheSongsofDistantEarth

[33865_1494798762]

Edited November 11, 2009 by Guest

[joeblast]

IMHO, humans are the earth's "money shot" - that's not to say that 'lesser' life forms are indeed lesser in a general sense, but no other species on this planet has the ability to move its collective ass out of this place before our sun undergoes a change in its fuel cycle. That is when global warming will become a severe and intractable problem.

 

Its like keeping a tidy house - devote a certain amount of time to upkeep and the place looks halfway decent and smells nice - dont devote enough and you have bugs and dirt...but, beyond a certain point of housecleaning, you're only making your efforts redundant, and even if the floor is clean enough to eat off of, do you do so?

 

 

sode, yes, value in old growth forests. last time I was at one was in alaska on douglas island, there was something interesting about the place, kinda reminded me of luke's musings of degoba if it were up to me, I'd say leave as much old growth as possible - but we cant exactly stop logging altogether!

[Smile]

but we cant exactly stop logging altogether!

Sure we can. We can use hemp for most of it and much more, faster and with much better returns. But since the CIA is making all these $ on drug trade, it's not going to happen very soon.

 

Don't worry guys. By the time the new killer bio-weapon grade virus spreads from Ukraine to the rest of the world, it will take enough pressure from nature to recover.