Confusion about the location of dan tian

[Non]

HI this is Non again.

 

I had an issue about the lower dantian and middle dantian, I dont know exactly where it is. I know they say, 2 inches below the navel.

 

Then there is the "hara" which simply means "belly". Maybe I just have a huge belly, and with lots of tension in it. Every time I try to breathe into the lower dan'tian or do belly breathing, I think of the times I've read that the hara is the same as the lower dan'tian. But the tension in my belly (which gets immediate relief when I breath into it) seems to exist in my whole belly, not just the area of the navel. So when people say or write "belly breathing" synonymous with lower dantian breathing, I get confused.

 

Then I start to think, what if that spot in my upper belly is actually where the solar plexus resides.... I also think I read somewhere that the middle dantian is at the center of the torso, not at the heart or chest level, but other sources say that it's at the heart level.

 

I also have scoliosis and a big belly so maybe my dantians are out of line or something... or I mistake the tension in my mid upper belly as part of a dantian. Belly breathing for me.. feels best when I breath into that spot rather than lower, because there's where I have the most tension.

 

So... What about the second chakra then, and the third for that matter? Or fourth and first? Whats the relation with the hara, dantians and those chakras?

 

Is there an extension of the lower dantian which goes down to the knees? Because for some reason, when I go into standing meditation, I really try to feel grounded. I feel as if there is a dantian, lower than the navel. Wait, dantian is at the navel or between the navel and belly button?

 

lol

Edited November 15, 2009 by Non

[Sloppy Zhang]

This old thread has some good information: http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?showtopic=1566

 

Basically, the dan tien is not the same as the chakras, there are other parts of the energy body within different systems that more closely relate.

 

In terms of feeling- keep trying, eventually you'll narrow it down and you'll feel it very specifically.

[Non]

Thanks.

 

I have a whole lot to read. I'm also looking forward to reading biologyofkundalini.com and also learning the biological and physical foundations of internal alchemy.

Edited November 15, 2009 by Non

[Martial Development]

The real question is, if you initially miss the "real dantian point" by 1-2 inches, whether that makes any difference at all. And the answer is...

 

[Riyue]

HI this is Non again.

 

I had an issue about the lower dantian and middle dantian, I dont know exactly where it is. I know they say, 2 inches below the navel.

 

 

In Neijing Tu you can find the label

正丹田

zheng1 dan1 tian2

right of the ploughing farmer and the four taiji

http://www.alice-dsl.net/taijiren/neijingtu_MingLiu.htm

-

In Huang Ting Jing

it is the space in front of the kidneys

(More information in Saso "Gold Pavilion"

---

Basically every acupoint can used as a 丹田 dan1 tian2.

丹 dan1 means cinnabar - the picture depicts the pellet of cinnabar in its surrounding

(shuowen: 采丹井一) - symbolizing something precious...

田 tian2 means field - the picture depicts a field with ways surrounding for walking and watering...

Focusing on a point and applying a breathing - using the power of heaven - earth - polarity - applying a growing and diminishing sphere - the microcirculation at this region is intensified...

-- continuing cycling 氣 qi4 using all channels - one avoids establishing blockades - causing pains in muscles and headache...

the most famous 丹田 dan1 tian2 are

the upper cinnabar field - the head - with focus in pineal body 松果體 song1 guo3 ti3

the middle cinnabar field - the thorax - with focus in 膻中 tan2 zhong1 /shan1 zhong1

the lower cinnar field - the lower belly - with focus in 氣海 qi4 hai3 1,5 寸 below navel

---

focusing on the center of gravity you find the true 丹田 dan1 tian2 :

正丹田 zheng4 dan1 tian2

For people who are cultivating apophatic practice of 黃庭 huang2 ting2

it is the space in front of kidneys

it is seen as analogy to the polar star of big dipper representing a not moving point at heaven...

it is the place they are returning after every qi-circulation...

it is the place where they can experience dao4 道 with its qualities described in ddj 25:

寂兮寥兮 ji4 xi1 liao2 xi1

Edited November 16, 2009 by Riyue

[effilang]

lol - I have to be honest, i can feel pretty much everything along the microcosmic orbit except the lower dan tien >_<

 

I can't get a feel for it, behind my bellybutton or 2 inches below my bellybutton, but at the base of the penis behind the pubic bone, i feel some incredible pumpin and thumpin lol - but thats the "sexual center" supposedly.

 

I am just as confused as you are. Is it between the Ming Meng, Bellybutton and Sexual Center (Mantak Chia), or is it "deep behind the navel" (Chunyi Lin) - Or is it 2 inches below the navel.

 

It's enough to make you go crazy lol.

 

I can channel energy from my LDT straight to my sexual center/sperm palace, where i really feel it to start the microcosmic orbit, but i don't feel much in the LDT it'self.

 

Some times i find it hard to distinguish between blood circulation and actual chi.

 

*shrug

[TianhuaQigong]

at each level lower or practice. Dantin are in different positions, base on what is your goal, for the beginning , it show be under the skin under the belly button, it is a area, then it getting small small, to a point,

 

Dan means a very small ball

Tian means field

 

so "Dantian" is the field to make or plant the ball.

 

this position make people feel energized, face looks nice, so Qigong master mostly let student start at this dantian, since very soon , the student will feel the different. then keep the practice, otherwise if people do not feel anything for a while, then they just give up.

 

there are so many books talk about lower Dantian, and they are in different positions, some book , do say Dantian is belly, some said dantian are at belly inside body, front 3 back 7, or back 3 front 7. I tried all of those, it all can make dan, and no harm. in fact, after lower dantian, there are a lot of position need to be miditiation for different purpose , so, there are books says "all of body everywhere are dantian."

[Ya Mu]

The truth is that, once dan tian is created, with practice it gets very large, so don't worry about it. Lower is below navel and inside body. Don't worry about any measurement.

[effilang]

Thank you guys, for the input.

[Trunk]

There's info about some of this in the Little Orbit essay. Near the bottom of the essay about the area from Ren-4 to Ren-7. Before that, simple method to activate those points (twiddlin').

 

 

cheers,

Trunk

 

[gendao]

During zhan zhuang today, I had another possible thought of how to locate the dantian.

 

If you feel where the tops of your hip bones are at your sides...this may be the same height as your dantian (a little over an inch below your navel).

[Taomeow]

Classics to the rescue!

 

"Heaven above, thirty-two. Earth below, thirty-two."

 

You are a walking talking I Ching, did you know that?.. Measure your above and below in kuns, body inches, which are your very own, not generic. Your kun is -- OK, bend your index finger, you see a V formed by the folds between the first and second joints? The distance between the tips of this V is your kun. You are as tall as 32 of these above the dantien plus 32 below... and where it is exactly depends on your personal proportions. Some people have long legs, some, short necks... so where the lower dantien falls on the individual body varies. But it is always smack in the middle between heaven and earth... until of course you are alchemically savvy enough to move heaven and earth, and then the lower dantien will skidaddle and you might start spotting it in all the unlikely places all over the body.

[Mark Foote]

Edited November 21, 2009 by Mark Foote

[Non]

thanks for the WEALTH of information. I just need time to read it all so don't think I'm just collecting info, although I've had the tendency to collect a lot but read a little. So many things to do.

 

If the dan tian is right in front of the kidneys that would mean that it's not really that much in the lower abdomen or navel but more like in the middle of the belly. The dan tian is more in front of the ming men which is just below the kidneys.

Edited November 23, 2009 by Non