Balance and What is really needed in cultivation?

[Ya Mu]

One of the most important things a person can do is have balance in their lives. This balance can be reflected in daily life pursuits. If you cultivate and do Spiritual work you should balance it with something you like to do. If you like to garden, then you should garden. If you like to play basketball, then you should play basketball. If you like music, you should play music.

 

As an example, yesterday I did distance energy healing (qi manipulation on the quantum level) from 7 AM until 12:45 PM. And for my balance, I played high energy rock n roll from 9PM until 1AM.

 

And to address the 2nd half of my topic, I did the above, which included band setup from 6 PM and breakdown until 3 AM, then driving an hour, and got up at 7:30 AM this morning. I am pass the sunny side of mid-50's and I did this WITHOUT practicing semen retention, forced methods, breathing techniques, and lifting weights (much); just plain old-fashioned qigong/neigong. Oh, and I have a qi-belly and do not look like a muscleman, but don't get colds/flu's. A 10 minute a day part of my qigong is body oriented isotonal exercises. The rest is energy oriented movements and Spiritual/Medical/Neigong qigong for 2-6 hrs a day; qi manipulation (wei qi liao fa) 4-8 hrs a day, qi-state awareness 24/7. THE most important aspect in this cultivation/energy manipulation is the alignment with Spirit.

[Marblehead]

Hi Ya Mu,

 

Nice post. And I am in agreement. Yeah, I am on break from gardening right now.

 

Peace & Love!

[C T]

Great topic sir!

 

Speaking of a balanced lifestyle, would you please touch on the relevance of a balanced diet? I am sure readers would be keen to know how certain food/herbs are key to maintaining a healthy inner and outer body.

 

I know that bodies are all constituted differently -- some are predominantly 'heaty' while others are 'cool'. I believe this is widely acknowledged in the field of TCM, hence eating certain types of food, while beneficial for one type of constitution, might not be as beneficial for the other.

 

The Chinese also hold to the believe that excess wind and phlegm is the cause of much distress in the body, and certain types of food do bring this about. Hence the Chinese diet have always included core ingredients in their meal preparation to prevent the build-up of excess wind and phlegm. One example is ginger root, which disperses wind and builds heat, and also sipping Chinese tea at meal times is believed to prevent the build-up of phlegm and also to refresh the palate. This is the reason why no Chinese meal is complete without the faithful pot of tea!

 

I have also heard the immense health benefits of bitter herbs and vegetables, of which the bitter melon is the most widely used in the Chinese diet. This fruit/veg has tremendous key nutrients that help in detoxification and regulating blood sugars, so if anyone's interested, do google and read up about this superfood!

 

I am wondering if you have any thoughts in this area, and would appreciate some comments.

 

Thank you.

[voidisyinyang]

Ya Mu are willing to admit your qi belly is fat or are taking the Santiago path of claiming it's hard as a rock because of qi but just looks like fat. haha. Of course there are other alternatives right? I mean fat ladies look pregnant so....

 

One of the most important things a person can do is have balance in their lives. This balance can be reflected in daily life pursuits. If you cultivate and do Spiritual work you should balance it with something you like to do. If you like to garden, then you should garden. If you like to play basketball, then you should play basketball. If you like music, you should play music.

 

As an example, yesterday I did distance energy healing (qi manipulation on the quantum level) from 7 AM until 12:45 PM. And for my balance, I played high energy rock n roll from 9PM until 1AM.

 

And to address the 2nd half of my topic, I did the above, which included band setup from 6 PM and breakdown until 3 AM, then driving an hour, and got up at 7:30 AM this morning. I am pass the sunny side of mid-50's and I did this WITHOUT practicing semen retention, forced methods, breathing techniques, and lifting weights (much); just plain old-fashioned qigong/neigong. Oh, and I have a qi-belly and do not look like a muscleman, but don't get colds/flu's. A 10 minute a day part of my qigong is body oriented isotonal exercises. The rest is energy oriented movements and Spiritual/Medical/Neigong qigong for 2-6 hrs a day; qi manipulation (wei qi liao fa) 4-8 hrs a day, qi-state awareness 24/7. THE most important aspect in this cultivation/energy manipulation is the alignment with Spirit.

[Spirit Ape]

Hi Ya Mu,

 

Great topic, Although I agree with Drew there is a few things one should look at before they consider starting any type of training be it fitness or Chi, Hard Kung fu etc. What is your goals and if body is one of them or the body will reshape itself from the training involved. All my arts the ones that are internal soft forms, meditation, energy healing, magic etc uses also some type of external training for the body. Its to balance it out, from my arts perspective from its poetry when mastered Soft and Hard as well Yin and Yang you are very high level. Your body from proper training should make you look young and fit. I think people that cultivate Chi lack the strength unless they applying both.

 

Yin Yang and Yau Kung must be understood to accomplish immortality!

 

So what does that mean - some type of cardio (walking chi kung), i never run unless preparing for a fight to test my wind, for the mind meditation and chi kung, for the body eating & drrinking good (which is hardest for me) and lastly some type o strength and conditioning. Now if you look into many internal systems (pai, muns, gars, all complete systems) have this built in. IF your art doesnt contain the building blocks for life and longevity then u have to add something for your health. Again depending on how your system was developed if its lacking or needs to be added some important things as well if you cannot eat properly how can you achieve other things with your mind?

 

food for thought!

 

take care mate

Garry Spirit Ape

[Ya Mu]

Hi Ya Mu,

 

Great topic, Although I agree with Drew there is a few things one should look at before they consider starting any type of training be it fitness or Chi, Hard Kung fu etc. What is your goals and if body is one of them or the body will reshape itself from the training involved. All my arts the ones that are internal soft forms, meditation, energy healing, magic etc uses also some type of external training for the body. Its to balance it out, from my arts perspective from its poetry when mastered Soft and Hard as well Yin and Yang you are very high level. Your body from proper training should make you look young and fit. I think people that cultivate Chi lack the strength unless they applying both.

 

Yin Yang and Yau Kung must be understood to accomplish immortality!

 

So what does that mean - some type of cardio (walking chi kung), i never run unless preparing for a fight to test my wind, for the mind meditation and chi kung, for the body eating & drrinking good (which is hardest for me) and lastly some type o strength and conditioning. Now if you look into many internal systems (pai, muns, gars, all complete systems) have this built in. IF your art doesnt contain the building blocks for life and longevity then u have to add something for your health. Again depending on how your system was developed if its lacking or needs to be added some important things as well if you cannot eat properly how can you achieve other things with your mind?

 

food for thought!

 

take care mate

Garry Spirit Ape

 

Garry, my point was not that some physical exercise was not needed (I do physical exercise) but that the typical western idea of what a healthy body should look like is dead wrong, and that by practicing qigong we do transform the body/mind/spirit all. I do agree with you that physical exercise is needed for balance. But for the actual amount of physical exercise I do there is no way I should be able to jump around actively on a stage until the wee hrs while maintaining the level of energy projection I do, and the small amount of sleep I need - the qigong is what allows me to do this.

 

 

Great topic sir!

 

Speaking of a balanced lifestyle, would you please touch on the relevance of a balanced diet? I am sure readers would be keen to know how certain food/herbs are key to maintaining a healthy inner and outer body.

 

I know that bodies are all constituted differently -- some are predominantly 'heaty' while others are 'cool'. I believe this is widely acknowledged in the field of TCM, hence eating certain types of food, while beneficial for one type of constitution, might not be as beneficial for the other.

 

The Chinese also hold to the believe that excess wind and phlegm is the cause of much distress in the body, and certain types of food do bring this about. Hence the Chinese diet have always included core ingredients in their meal preparation to prevent the build-up of excess wind and phlegm. One example is ginger root, which disperses wind and builds heat, and also sipping Chinese tea at meal times is believed to prevent the build-up of phlegm and also to refresh the palate. This is the reason why no Chinese meal is complete without the faithful pot of tea!

 

I have also heard the immense health benefits of bitter herbs and vegetables, of which the bitter melon is the most widely used in the Chinese diet. This fruit/veg has tremendous key nutrients that help in detoxification and regulating blood sugars, so if anyone's interested, do google and read up about this superfood!

 

I am wondering if you have any thoughts in this area, and would appreciate some comments.

Thank you.

.

 

You obviously have a handle already on some meal/ingredients ideas. What I have found is that, if a person practices qigong to a certain point, they can go to the same buffet everyday that has vegetables of all varieties, meats, fruits, etc. Day 1, if they simply practice Listening they will choose exactly what foods the body needs that day. Day 2 same, but will most probably choose different foods. I believe we have the inherent ability to properly make that decision. I eat meat, but not a lot, mostly vegetables and fruit. And I do like the use of a lot of herbs and think they can be very beneficial.

 

 

Ya Mu are willing to admit your qi belly is fat or are taking the Santiago path of claiming it's hard as a rock because of qi but just looks like fat. haha. Of course there are other alternatives right? I mean fat ladies look pregnant so....

 

It is a qi belly. My teacher had one as well. I do not desire a (looks like he's healthy and works out in a gym but is not healthy inside) type of body. Muscles like a cat are much better able to respond and allow qi flow than big hard muscles gained by lifting weight. I also do not like razor thin bodies gained by starving oneself. I posted this thread instead of posting individual responses in all the current threads on weight lifting, semen retention, qi belly, etc. One of my points is all that extraneous stuff is not necessary or needed. Other points of my post are that stamina and ability to manipulate energy are not dependent on what the external viewer perceives. I am very active on the stage while performing rock n roll. Oh, and at 7:30 this morning, I ate what I wanted for breakfast, went out and shot a (legal) deer at 200 yards left-handed, dragged it 1/2 mile by myself and cleaned it. Yes I eat meat. AND I am still going strong this afternoon and plan another healing session today. I do a bit of physical workout, but my main concern is not physical but spiritual. Most people my age who do not practice qigong would have been in bed all day after the type of energy expenditure that I have done in the last 32 hrs.

[C T]

Thanks Ya Mu! You have a point there.

 

Although the traditional Masters of Gung, as far as I know, strictly adhere to a regime of herbal concoctions and certain types of food to enhance their cultivation. Ginseng and Dong Quai are two that comes to mind. Deer meat is also highly nutritious and very yang as well! I am pretty sure there are a host of other herbs they would use to promote vitality and overall well-being.

 

I was just curious to know if you personally use any of these traditional Chinese herbs to complement your exemplary discipline.

 

Regards,

 

CT

[Ya Mu]

Thanks Ya Mu! You have a point there.

 

Although the traditional Masters of Gung, as far as I know, strictly adhere to a regime of herbal concoctions and certain types of food to enhance their cultivation. Ginseng and Dong Quai are two that comes to mind. Deer meat is also highly nutritious and very yang as well! I am pretty sure there are a host of other herbs they would use to promote vitality and overall well-being.

 

I was just curious to know if you personally use any of these traditional Chinese herbs to complement your exemplary discipline.

 

Regards,

 

CT

 

Nothing all the time except quite often circuma longa or sometimes Jiang Huang Wan (circuma longa formula). Sometimes I use CordySeng (proprietary cordyceps/americam ginseng/reishi formula. I keep all kinds of Chinese Herbal formulas on my medicine shelf and in my clinic. I really do believe in the Listening method and practice it constantly.

[Fu_dog]

Ya Mu - your posts are very helpful, especially this thread....very good stuff. As one who is over 50 myself I was pretty interested in your success formula. You are saying 2 hours of qigong per day should do it for most of us. Thanks for sharing this.

[Ya Mu]

Ya Mu - your posts are very helpful, especially this thread....very good stuff. As one who is over 50 myself I was pretty interested in your success formula. You are saying 2 hours of qigong per day should do it for most of us. Thanks for sharing this.

 

2 hrs a day is good UNLESS you are projecting qi to others for healing. In that case it should be more. I tell my students 2 hrs if they only project qi occasionally. If they do so every day then 3 hrs min. For self maintenance a mixture of neigong and movement qigong is best. 2 hrs of it will do much for a person. Most days I do over 2 hrs - but some days are better than others

[Kameel]

You know I always find this topic of Chi belly fascinating. Does it exist? Certainly it has been exagerrated by some, and diet plays a role in bodyshape, but in the last few months I have heavily concentrated on Taoist breathing (not just belly, but kidney, spine, upper back etc) and my pants have gone up a size. I have keep my calories the same, exercise the same, caffeine intake, etc. Body fat % is the same. My metabolism feels the same. It is the only thing I have changed and my gut feels harder, same with low back. So IMO there is something to it. Now the question is, is it necessary for chi cultivation? Probably not. But I will say this, the best chi healers I have worked with have all had a grounded earth look. The thin air types, I have never derived much benefit. Is this personal resonance, more powerful chi or something else? Not sure.

 

Oh I have a theory on karma intake and fat depostion, but must pick up my chi belly baby from school. Will share another time.

Edited November 17, 2009 by Kameel

[~jK~]

Thanks Ya Mu! You have a point there.

 

Although the traditional Masters of Gung, as far as I know, strictly adhere to a regime of herbal concoctions and certain types of food to enhance their cultivation. Ginseng and Dong Quai are two that comes to mind. Deer meat is also highly nutritious and very yang as well! I am pretty sure there are a host of other herbs they would use to promote vitality and overall well-being.

 

I was just curious to know if you personally use any of these traditional Chinese herbs to complement your exemplary discipline.

 

Regards,

 

CT

 

CT,

Traditional Chinese medicine begins with a preventive diet. There are diets that work well with meditation etc...

http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&...mp;aq=f&oq=

 

From this, I did quite a bit of research - back to the Sung Dynasty 1200AD - to find the Chinese diet changed then to 100% cooked foods as there was quite a large typhus epidemic that came about at that time. It resulted in all - as in 100% of the food - including water being boiled- which continues to this day.

 

To make a long story short - Chinese medicinal herbs are very much like western medicine.

When Napoleon came to China, he took back the Willow tree -which he is burried under. From the willow tree's bark - Asprin was discovered.

 

I think you may be looking for the Chinese Yin and Yang diet.

[C T]

CT,

Traditional Chinese medicine begins with a preventive diet. There are diets that work well with meditation etc...

http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&...mp;aq=f&oq=

 

From this, I did quite a bit of research - back to the Sung Dynasty 1200AD - to find the Chinese diet changed then to 100% cooked foods as there was quite a large typhus epidemic that came about at that time. It resulted in all - as in 100% of the food - including water being boiled- which continues to this day.

 

To make a long story short - Chinese medicinal herbs are very much like western medicine.

When Napoleon came to China, he took back the Willow tree -which he is burried under. From the willow tree's bark - Asprin was discovered.

 

I think you may be looking for the Chinese Yin and Yang diet.

Hey jK,

 

Appreciate the feedback!

 

I am ashamed -- despite my part-Chinese roots, there is so much i have yet to learn about its history and culture!

 

That research you did was great! I have always wondered about that but never got off my bum to actually find out more!

 

Thanks again!

 

CT

[fiveelementtao]

I am becoming concerned with posts asking about semen retention and some of the "Home Baked" techniques that people are coming up for it.

Semen retention should not be attempted without the guidance of a master. The idea of the million dollar point or using the fingers to hold back ejaculation is harmful to the body and does absolutely nothing towards semen retention. The semen is absorbed through the tissues and NOT redirected up the spine as is the goal.

Semen retention is only helpful if one is able to do so without lusting all the time. If you are refraining from sexual release but walking around full of lust, you are worse off. Because the lust creates a great deal of heat which is unhealthy for energy cultivation.

Unless one is in an environment conducive to celibacy and doing exercises and techniques which naturally guide the semen up the spine, the "retention" is not achieved.

Refraining from sexual release, in and of itself, also does not achieve the goal of guiding the semen up the spine. The semen simply pools up and causes extreme sexual frustration. This agitates the spirit and mind and is worse than healthy sexual release. Michael Win and Mantak Chia were instrumental in teaching these home baked retention methods. Both have publicly retracted their support for their earlier teachings and have admitted that these practices are physically harmful.

Unless one has been instructed by a qualified master in the techniques involved in semen retention, one is better off exercising moderation and enjoying release so that the spirit is pacified and the body is not overheated with lust and mental distraction.

If one is in a loving relationship, one can use the interchange of sexual energies with a partner for cultivation. This is better than "burning with lust." Having moderate sexual release and practicing energy cultivation can still result in powerful gains in energy...

 

I am also concerned with the amount of people on this forum who are using drugs as "aids to enlightenment". I have no personal issue with people who choose to use recreational drugs. But, my sense is that those who regularly use drugs as enlightenment aids are doing so to escape their feelings and couching it as "enlightenment." Enlightenment is not an escape from negative feelings. Enlightenment is the process of FACING one's issues and working through them. True Enlightenment is measured by spiritual, mental and emotional maturity. This has to be earned.

I will even go so far as saying that spiritual experiences from energy cultivation are NOT enlightenment unless it is accompanied by emotional maturity and compassion.

I have personally witnessed numerous energy masters achieve these states including death and ressurrection, moving energy up the spine to the crown, achieving "samadhi", Spiritual powers etc... But they were still very egotistical and narcissistic and definitely NOT enlightened. So, having an "experience" of enlightenment means nothing if it does not result in emotional maturity.

 

Drugs mimic the effects of naturally occurring chemicals released by the glands of the brain. If these chemicals are released naturally through disciplined energy work, then the benefits can result in longer life, health and greater consciousness (Notice I did not say enlightenment).

The price for consciousness has to be paid. If one pays with patience, and discipline, then the results can be lasting and healing.

If one cheats by using drugs, the effects are short lived and in the long run, stunts the awareness, destroys the body, breeds dependence, traps one in their intellect and shuts off the spirit.

Intellectual depth has NOTHING to do with enlightenment. So, coming on this forum and spouting deep thoughts that have to be explained in even greater depth is NOT the sign of enlightenment.

I will say, that it is very easy for me (and I'm sure others) to spot the drug users by your posts. Drug use traps the user in their intellect. Intellectual addicts believe that "deep thoughts" are a sign of enlightenment. Enlightenment is a state that needs no words. Those who speak don't know and those who know don't speak. I am NOT enlightened. But I can tell if one is trapped in their intellect. (takes one to know one.)

I encourage everyone to seek out a teacher and a PRACTICE and use it to gain enlightenment, rather than cheat with drugs and become trapped in false enlightenment and ego of the intellect.

IMO if someone wants enlightenment, instead of trying to "figure out the universe" learn to practice compassion in their relationships.

[Ya Mu]

I am becoming concerned with posts asking about semen retention and some of the "Home Baked" techniques that people are coming up for it.

Semen retention should not be attempted without the guidance of a master. The idea of the million dollar point or using the fingers to hold back ejaculation is harmful to the body and does absolutely nothing towards semen retention. The semen is absorbed through the tissues and NOT redirected up the spine as is the goal.

Semen retention is only helpful if one is able to do so without lusting all the time. If you are refraining from sexual release but walking around full of lust, you are worse off. Because the lust creates a great deal of heat which is unhealthy for energy cultivation.

Unless one is in an environment conducive to celibacy and doing exercises and techniques which naturally guide the semen up the spine, the "retention" is not achieved.

Refraining from sexual release, in and of itself, also does not achieve the goal of guiding the semen up the spine. The semen simply pools up and causes extreme sexual frustration. This agitates the spirit and mind and is worse than healthy sexual release. Michael Win and Mantak Chia were instrumental in teaching these home baked retention methods. Both have publicly retracted their support for their earlier teachings and have admitted that these practices are physically harmful.

Unless one has been instructed by a qualified master in the techniques involved in semen retention, one is better off exercising moderation and enjoying release so that the spirit is pacified and the body is not overheated with lust and mental distraction.

If one is in a loving relationship, one can use the interchange of sexual energies with a partner for cultivation. This is better than "burning with lust." Having moderate sexual release and practicing energy cultivation can still result in powerful gains in energy...

 

I am also concerned with the amount of people on this forum who are using drugs as "aids to enlightenment". I have no personal issue with people who choose to use recreational drugs. But, my sense is that those who regularly use drugs as enlightenment aids are doing so to escape their feelings and couching it as "enlightenment." Enlightenment is not an escape from negative feelings. Enlightenment is the process of FACING one's issues and working through them. True Enlightenment is measured by spiritual, mental and emotional maturity. This has to be earned.

I will even go so far as saying that spiritual experiences from energy cultivation are NOT enlightenment unless it is accompanied by emotional maturity and compassion.

I have personally witnessed numerous energy masters achieve these states including death and ressurrection, moving energy up the spine to the crown, achieving "samadhi", Spiritual powers etc... But they were still very egotistical and narcissistic and definitely NOT enlightened. So, having an "experience" of enlightenment means nothing if it does not result in emotional maturity.

 

Drugs mimic the effects of naturally occurring chemicals released by the glands of the brain. If these chemicals are released naturally through disciplined energy work, then the benefits can result in longer life, health and greater consciousness (Notice I did not say enlightenment).

The price for consciousness has to be paid. If one pays with patience, and discipline, then the results can be lasting and healing.

If one cheats by using drugs, the effects are short lived and in the long run, stunts the awareness, destroys the body, breeds dependence, traps one in their intellect and shuts off the spirit.

Intellectual depth has NOTHING to do with enlightenment. So, coming on this forum and spouting deep thoughts that have to be explained in even greater depth is NOT the sign of enlightenment.

I will say, that it is very easy for me (and I'm sure others) to spot the drug users by your posts. Drug use traps the user in their intellect. Intellectual addicts believe that "deep thoughts" are a sign of enlightenment. Enlightenment is a state that needs no words. Those who speak don't know and those who know don't speak. I am NOT enlightened. But I can tell if one is trapped in their intellect. (takes one to know one.)

I encourage everyone to seek out a teacher and a PRACTICE and use it to gain enlightenment, rather than cheat with drugs and become trapped in false enlightenment and ego of the intellect.

IMO if someone wants enlightenment, instead of trying to "figure out the universe" learn to practice compassion in their relationships.

 

Oh Yes! Good info!

 

I started to post a new topic, saying "The single greatest Superpower in Qigong" and in the post saying one word "Compassion!"

 

The semen retention thing is, as you say, dangerous and it really is not needed. I have repeatedly posted that a dual cultivation method which includes LOVE is far more powerful and I still stand by that statement. This method is published in my book.

 

I do think certain natural hallucinogenics could help to initially open a person up, but I have repeatedly said I do not advocate this method unless it is a part of one's natural culture. Even then, I do know that it is far better to reach higher levels through natural and not forced means. And manymost people are certainly NOT GEARED to handle these methods and would be much better off not going there.

 

And your comment on "intellectual addicts" is spot on; what folks must eventually realize is that the higher level states transcend thinking.

 

There are no short cuts. Daily practice is the way to riches.

[C T]

I am becoming concerned with posts asking about semen retention and some of the "Home Baked" techniques that people are coming up for it.

Semen retention should not be attempted without the guidance of a master. The idea of the million dollar point or using the fingers to hold back ejaculation is harmful to the body and does absolutely nothing towards semen retention. The semen is absorbed through the tissues and NOT redirected up the spine as is the goal.

Semen retention is only helpful if one is able to do so without lusting all the time. If you are refraining from sexual release but walking around full of lust, you are worse off. Because the lust creates a great deal of heat which is unhealthy for energy cultivation.

Unless one is in an environment conducive to celibacy and doing exercises and techniques which naturally guide the semen up the spine, the "retention" is not achieved.

Refraining from sexual release, in and of itself, also does not achieve the goal of guiding the semen up the spine. The semen simply pools up and causes extreme sexual frustration. This agitates the spirit and mind and is worse than healthy sexual release. Michael Win and Mantak Chia were instrumental in teaching these home baked retention methods. Both have publicly retracted their support for their earlier teachings and have admitted that these practices are physically harmful.

Unless one has been instructed by a qualified master in the techniques involved in semen retention, one is better off exercising moderation and enjoying release so that the spirit is pacified and the body is not overheated with lust and mental distraction.

If one is in a loving relationship, one can use the interchange of sexual energies with a partner for cultivation. This is better than "burning with lust." Having moderate sexual release and practicing energy cultivation can still result in powerful gains in energy...

 

I am also concerned with the amount of people on this forum who are using drugs as "aids to enlightenment". I have no personal issue with people who choose to use recreational drugs. But, my sense is that those who regularly use drugs as enlightenment aids are doing so to escape their feelings and couching it as "enlightenment." Enlightenment is not an escape from negative feelings. Enlightenment is the process of FACING one's issues and working through them. True Enlightenment is measured by spiritual, mental and emotional maturity. This has to be earned.

I will even go so far as saying that spiritual experiences from energy cultivation are NOT enlightenment unless it is accompanied by emotional maturity and compassion.

I have personally witnessed numerous energy masters achieve these states including death and ressurrection, moving energy up the spine to the crown, achieving "samadhi", Spiritual powers etc... But they were still very egotistical and narcissistic and definitely NOT enlightened. So, having an "experience" of enlightenment means nothing if it does not result in emotional maturity.

 

Drugs mimic the effects of naturally occurring chemicals released by the glands of the brain. If these chemicals are released naturally through disciplined energy work, then the benefits can result in longer life, health and greater consciousness (Notice I did not say enlightenment).

The price for consciousness has to be paid. If one pays with patience, and discipline, then the results can be lasting and healing.

If one cheats by using drugs, the effects are short lived and in the long run, stunts the awareness, destroys the body, breeds dependence, traps one in their intellect and shuts off the spirit.

Intellectual depth has NOTHING to do with enlightenment. So, coming on this forum and spouting deep thoughts that have to be explained in even greater depth is NOT the sign of enlightenment.

I will say, that it is very easy for me (and I'm sure others) to spot the drug users by your posts. Drug use traps the user in their intellect. Intellectual addicts believe that "deep thoughts" are a sign of enlightenment. Enlightenment is a state that needs no words. Those who speak don't know and those who know don't speak. I am NOT enlightened. But I can tell if one is trapped in their intellect. (takes one to know one.)

I encourage everyone to seek out a teacher and a PRACTICE and use it to gain enlightenment, rather than cheat with drugs and become trapped in false enlightenment and ego of the intellect.

IMO if someone wants enlightenment, instead of trying to "figure out the universe" learn to practice compassion in their relationships.

Truly well said. I concur fully.

 

Many thanks 5ET, for this really insightful post.

[Aetherous]

Totally!

[Lucky7Strikes]

I am becoming concerned with posts asking about semen retention and some of the "Home Baked" techniques that people are coming up for it...

 

I agree with most of the post,

 

except the part about using the intellect. Intellectual inquiry is necessary. It is a practice onto itself, and blindsided energy cultivation IMHO, is utterly pointless without discerning wisdom (if enlightenment is the goal).

 

Compassion too must be practiced with insight. .

 

But it was a great post!

Edited November 18, 2009 by Lucky7Strikes

[C T]

I agree with most of the post,

 

except the part about using the intellect. Intellectual inquiry is necessary. It is a practice onto itself, and blindsided energy cultivation IMHO, is utterly pointless without discerning wisdom (if enlightenment is the goal).

 

Compassion too must be practiced with insight. .

 

But it was a great post!

Aah, but intellectual inquiry is not a prerequisite for wisdom-cultivation, which can be attained

simply thru seeing deeply into the true nature of things. There are millions of people with a line of

abbreviations after their names who would not survive 2 days in the bushlands. However, they

may study and enquire into survival skills prior, but their intellectual pursuit, no matter how brilliant,

would at best allow them to survive, but not to thrive, in those surroundings, and even then,

perhaps a week tops.

 

Just a thought.

[Ya Mu]

Aah, but intellectual inquiry is not a prerequisite for wisdom-cultivation, which can be attained

simply thru seeing deeply into the true nature of things. There are millions of people with a line of

abbreviations after their names who would not survive 2 days in the bushlands. However, they

may study and enquire into survival skills prior, but their intellectual pursuit, no matter how brilliant,

would at best allow them to survive, but not to thrive, in those surroundings, and even then,

perhaps a week tops.

 

Just a thought.

 

Ah, very good.

We could intellectually dissect any particular thing for 10,000 years and not arrive at the truth of experiencing that thing.

[Lucky7Strikes]

Aah, but intellectual inquiry is not a prerequisite for wisdom-cultivation, which can be attained

simply thru seeing deeply into the true nature of things. There are millions of people with a line of

abbreviations after their names who would not survive 2 days in the bushlands. However, they

may study and enquire into survival skills prior, but their intellectual pursuit, no matter how brilliant,

would at best allow them to survive, but not to thrive, in those surroundings, and even then,

perhaps a week tops.

 

Just a thought.

 

Cultivation happens 24/7 and attainment is not conditional. So the analogy above isn't very accurate.

 

Simple experience can easily lead to deluded insights. The Mind itself functions as intellect, and it will always analyze experience into dual perspectives no matter how much energy cultivation you do.

 

Beings can attain powers, become gods, immortal, etc. for billions of years and not yet have insight because they become attached to experience.

 

Critically inquiring into the mind and the self is the most direct path.

Edited November 18, 2009 by Lucky7Strikes

[C T]

Cultivation happens 24/7 and attainment is not conditional. So the analogy above isn't very accurate.

 

Simple experience can easily lead to deluded insights. The Mind itself functions as intellect, and it will always analyze experience into dual perspectives no matter how much energy cultivation you do.

 

Beings can attain powers, become gods, immortal, etc. for billions of years and not yet have insight because they become attached to experience.

 

Critically inquiring into the mind and the self is the most direct path.

 

Apologies for giving a shallow analogy that was quite removed from accuracy. It did cross my mind that

your observation excluded the non-intellectuals, that they possess not the necessary qualities for

inquiring into this matter of freedom from delusion, and i am of the opinion that those who live closer

to nature, and the so-called simple of mind, are perhaps less deluded than their better-educated cousins.

Hence they can inquire more directly into the true nature of things as they are,

without the need to conceptualize as much as one who, given the same task, would have to wade

through layers of conditioned, analytical processes before arriving at the same conclusions

as one who is perhaps less 'formally educated'.

 

I agree that Mind, at the relative level of intellect, could easily be deluded by simple

experience, but could just as easily not be deluded by same. It could simply be a question of making

the right choices and using the correct means, which is a path not reserved exclusively for the better-

educated among us.

 

The Mind, WHEN functioning as intellect, will tend to be analytical, as you say, but does it always

need to function in that mode? As a consequence of directly seeing into the true nature of things, the

Mind actually becomes silent and absent, hence it does raise the question again of whether the intellect

is needed for this direct-seeing, or insight, as you term it.

 

I also concur with your last statement, but do have reservations as to the propensity for the function

of intellect in this regard.

Edited November 18, 2009 by CowTao

[Ya Mu]

Cultivation happens 24/7 and attainment is not conditional. So the analogy above isn't very accurate.

 

Simple experience can easily lead to deluded insights. The Mind itself functions as intellect, and it will always analyze experience into dual perspectives no matter how much energy cultivation you do.

 

Beings can attain powers, become gods, immortal, etc. for billions of years and not yet have insight because they become attached to experience.

 

Critically inquiring into the mind and the self is the most direct path.

 

 

Cultivation happens 24/7 and attainment is not conditional. So the analogy above isn't very accurate.

And you know this because your mind, which is limited by the brain waves, tells you so?

 

Simple experience can easily lead to deluded insights. The Mind itself functions as intellect, and it will always analyze experience into dual perspectives no matter how much energy cultivation you do.

 

While indeed simple experience can lead to deluded insights (the delusion usually caused by the mind analyzing and twisting the truth of the experience into something more palatable), most experience is just that, experience. When you were a baby and you touched a hot stove, you learned by experience that the stove would burn. A person can't say that it is delusion simply because it was an experience. Or if you think that you can use your mind to make the stove not hot - be my guest.

 

I have listened to this mind/intellectual stuff in the Buddhism threads. Over and over, page after page after page after page. And all it was was one person's intellectual ability to put words together in a string to make a point. I even posted a Buddhist poem, an extremely powerful hand-me-down from a previous Abbot of one of the holy Buddhist mountains in one of those threads. But I don't think a single one of the posters got it because everyone was too busy with mental masturbation.

 

Your mind/brain is your worst enemy, and it is very difficult for a person to progress until they realize that. It is only when a person takes the mind out of the equation, learns that the mind has been controlling them like a slave, preventing from realization of the true self; it is only then that a person can awaken. AND this awakening comes with a knowing that the Divine flows in all., and that every YOU is an inherent part of the Divine. All the energetics that you put down is the manipulation of the very creative fabric of the universe. The mind/brain is the manipulation of electrical signals inside a body.

 

The mind/brain, which is only a bunch of electrical signals, dies when the body dies and the energy body is immortal. It is everyone's choice which they wish to cultivate.

 

Beings can attain powers, become gods, immortal, etc. for billions of years and not yet have insight because they become attached to experience.

And Beings can become attached to their mind, which at all costs wishes to remain the master, for an entire lifetime, mentally masturbating their way to thinking they have become Gods.

 

Critically inquiring into the mind and the self is the most direct path.

And you know this, not because you have experienced it, but because your mainmost enemy has told you so.

 

So, with your superior intellect go ahead and try to take this apart. I am sure your flowing words will sway many but one thing is for sure, those words will mean nothing to a person who has learned, through an awakening experience, that the mind is the enemy that has enslaved humanity.

Edited November 18, 2009 by Ya Mu

[Lucky7Strikes]

Apologies for giving a shallow analogy that was quite removed from accuracy. It did cross my mind that

your observation excluded the non-intellectuals, that they possess not the necessary qualities for

inquiring into this matter of freedom from delusion, and i am of the opinion that those who live closer

to nature, and the so-called simple of mind, are perhaps less deluded than their better-educated cousins.

Hence they can inquire more directly into the true nature of things as they are,

without the need to conceptualize as much as one who, given the same task, would have to wade

through layers of conditioned, analytical processes before arriving at the same conclusions

as one who is perhaps less 'formally educated'.

 

Your concept of nature is very romantacized. Nature is any experience, it doesn't matter whether you are among trees or on concrete. But one can obviously be quieter and less bothersome than the other.

 

I agree that Mind, at the relative level of intellect, could easily be deluded by simple

experience, but could just as easily not be deluded by same. It could simply be a question of making

the right choices and using the correct means, which is a path not reserved exclusively for the better-

educated among us.

 

Right, better or formal "education" has nothing to do with any of this when we talk about the intellect. When I mention intellect, I mean analysis and inquiry instead of exercises such as following the breath, mantras, asanas, etc.

 

The Mind, WHEN functioning as intellect, will tend to be analytical, as you say, but does it always

need to function in that mode? As a consequence of directly seeing into the true nature of things, the

Mind actually becomes silent and absent, hence it does raise the question again of whether the intellect

is needed for this direct-seeing, or insight, as you term it.

 

Yes, the mind will always grasp and create a duality of observed and observer. Absence of mind happens only relative to the presence of mind. Intellect is necessary to see into experience, and it need not be in the form of words per se, but the conscious effort to analyze must be there.

[Lucky7Strikes]

And you know this because your mind, which is limited by the brain waves, tells you so?

 

No your Mind is not limited by your brainwaves.

 

While indeed simple experience can lead to deluded insights (the delusion usually caused by the mind analyzing and twisting the truth of the experience into something more palatable), most experience is just that, experience. When you were a baby and you touched a hot stove, you learned by experience that the stove would burn. A person can't say that it is delusion simply because it was an experience. Or if you think that you can use your mind to make the stove not hot - be my guest.

 

I have listened to this mind/intellectual stuff in the Buddhism threads. Over and over, page after page after page after page. And all it was was one person's intellectual ability to put words together in a string to make a point. I even posted a Buddhist poem, an extremely powerful hand-me-down from a previous Abbot of one of the holy Buddhist mountains in one of those threads. But I don't think a single one of the posters got it because everyone was too busy with mental masturbation.

 

You will feel the stove as hot because of the body. And the body has come about due to the conditioned habits of the mind, or its conscious choice to be in a physical form at a certain temperature. Hence you will feel the hotness of the stove.

 

Yes you can read the thousands of sutras and call them mental masturbation too. . Really all it is a person's intellectual ability to put words together! But anyway, it's the best way to communicate in an online forum. Those discussion revealed the many holes and misunderstandings people had regarding Buddhist beliefs (especially mine), and people have noted their beneficiary qualities.

 

Your mind/brain is your worst enemy, and it is very difficult for a person to progress until they realize that. It is only when a person takes the mind out of the equation, learns that the mind has been controlling them like a slave, preventing from realization of the true self; it is only then that a person can awaken. AND this awakening comes with a knowing that the Divine flows in all., and that every YOU is an inherent part of the Divine. All the energetics that you put down is the manipulation of the very creative fabric of the universe. The mind/brain is the manipulation of electrical signals inside a body.

 

The mind/brain, which is only a bunch of electrical signals, dies when the body dies and the energy body is immortal. It is everyone's choice which they wish to cultivate.

And Beings can become attached to their mind, which at all costs wishes to remain the master, for an entire lifetime, mentally masturbating their way to thinking they have become Gods.

 

The mind is not your enemy. You can't take the mind out of equation. Everything is of the mind. The "slave" aspect you speak of comes from not realizing the qualities of the mind, eventually creating a deluded attachment to a singularity, such as the ego or the energy body.

 

No I am not part of the divine. The brain is not the mind. The energy body is nothing but another manifestation of the mind grasping onto another entity than the physical body. It is not enlightenment.

 

Disregarding the mind is a method of deconditioning a heavily burdened individual so the he/she can inquire without as much interruption or bias.

 

You and I have fundamentally different notions of what the "mind" entails. Mind is simply perception and its interpretation, and the resulting habits and identities that form.

 

And you know this, not because you have experienced it, but because your mainmost enemy has told you so.

 

So, with your superior intellect go ahead and try to take this apart. I am sure your flowing words will sway many but one thing is for sure, those words will mean nothing to a person who has learned, through an awakening experience, that the mind is the enemy that has enslaved humanity.

 

The mind has not enslaved humanity. You ARE the mind, hence such assertions are ridiculous. I experience my insight all the time as Truth should not be conditional to an experience, but applicable to all experience.

 

I mean, can you know anything beyond knowing? .

Edited November 18, 2009 by Lucky7Strikes