Can Drugs Help You Achieve Enlightenment?

[Taiji Bum]

This is an explanation of why drugs CANNOT help you achieve enlightenment using an analogy of THE MATRIX. Sorta like a part deux of the sword one. Yes, debate is welcome.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDbapAig9gw

[Nilo]

bleh, I don't want to click on the link. I already gathered your closed off point of view from your other vids.

[Old Man Contradiction]

This video conveys your perspective a lot better. I think it's possible.

 

Like I said before, the people I know who've had far out spiritual experiences on hallucinogens live their lives as dualistic as any average american. But I believe the truth of the matter is that these hallucinogens just need to be accompanied with a practice of mindfulness. To have a healthy relationship with these plants requires your subtlety, attention, and respect.

 

PS. by "mindfulness", I don't necessarily mean mindfulness meditation.

Edited November 17, 2009 by Old Man Contradiction

[voidisyinyang]

http://www.lycaeum.org/diseyes/fresh/ayaheal.htm

 

This is an explanation of why drugs CANNOT help you achieve enlightenment using an analogy of THE MATRIX. Sorta like a part deux of the sword one. Yes, debate is welcome.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDbapAig9gw

[voidisyinyang]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/alternat...h-benefits.html

[TheSongsofDistantEarth]

Darin,

 

exactly who is this message intended for? It's like a 1:38 PSA against drugs, but its not very convincing. Drugs are NOT the way, but the can give a taste and a glimpse, and the wise user then sets out on the hero's journey. You message is just very simplistic and unimpressive. I can't see anyone actually watching this and being convinced. Nice sentiment, but it's not well thought out.

Edited November 18, 2009 by TheSongsofDistantEarth

[Encephalon]

We are evolving along, aren't we? Communicating by merely posting links to other sources of information. Kewl!!

 

My two cents on hallucinogens - they are way too much fun, but that's another story.

As Huston Smith and Terrence Mckenna have written about extensively, halls. and mushrooms did, in my personal experience, consistently, dissolve the psychological barriers between self and non-self, and I mean

"small s" when I mean self (since it doesn't exist anyway, and that's yet another story). In the absence of said barriers, one's awareness becomes sensitive to the ecological reality of interdependency and connectedness to the rest of creation. This was always a profoundly moving and spiritually intoxicating experience for me, and for thousands of others who have taken these compounds.

 

That being said, once is really enough, as Huston Smith also said, to trigger the desire to replicate this exquisite awareness of this connectedness through spiritual exercises. Of course, as a young adult, I used these compounds more than once...

 

...way more than once

[doc benway]

Some random thoughts on hallucinogens...

(I'm in a wordy mood, watch out)

 

For the most part, people use drugs in developed countries for recreation and distraction from pain and boredom.

Part of this is because much of our social conditioning has unfortunate psychological consequences.

At some level, I believe that people recognize the negative effects of our conditioning and, intuitively or accidentally begin to use hallucinogens as a way to experience states of awareness that help transcend the insanity of our social conventions. Once those conventions are seen through, there may be an increased chance of breaking through in a more meaningful and permanent way. This will require abandoning the drugs and bringing the insight into the daily reality. Continued use of the drugs will eventually become an escape and distraction and will be self defeating.

 

The other real concern is the potential for harm related to hallucinogens. There is a group of people who will have very serious side effects, sometimes irreversible. I've seen it in two very close friends. They are probably people prone to psychosis to begin with. The purity, dosages, environment of use, and so forth are very poorly understood and controlled in the vast majority of instances. Participating in an ayahuesca ceremony with an experienced guide is very different from what most Americans, Asians, and Europeans will experience in their experimentation.

 

I have very mixed feelings. I have my own personal experiences and I have the experience of helping my children to navigate the same treacherous waters. I don't advocate the use of hallucinogens due to the inherent risks. I do think they sometimes can help people make limited progress but it's a very slippery slope. Be careful and responsible, please!

[DalTheJigsaw123]

Interesting. Who knows, for some it works for others it doesn't. I have experienced both. I will say it depends on the person/experience/environment/who you take it with and so on.

[everseeking]

"bleh, I don't want to click on the link. I already gathered your closed off point of view from your other vids."

 

Sorry to pick on your quote there :-0

 

Yeah Darin, you're so closed off. I mean, Hunter Thompson, he did psychedelics, oh, wait, ...burnt out...

 

Uh, what about Roger Waters! Such a great musician! He opened up the creative potential of his mind...wait, shit, nevermind...acid casualty as well..

 

Here's my thoughts, again in shorter form than the last time I posted about these videos.

 

Doing psychedelics is okay for some people, yet will ruin others. They can bring out otherwise dormant schizophrenia. I know people this has happened to.

 

 

Psychedelics can bring on amazing, life changing experiences. Some of my mot cherished memories are from eating an INSANE amount of psilocybin cubensis--I split 26 grams evenly with a close friend. It was an epic, mindblowing experience. I don't recommend taking that much

 

As was illustrated in another thread here on TTB, 'magic mushrooms' can be GOOD for people in some circumstances!

 

But the old rule applies--SET AND SETTING.

 

And even so, psychedelics aren't a PATH to enlightenment. Maybe one small step, but if you keep going over the same old ground, what have you found?

 

 

I am not yet there, but I am certain you don't 'come down' from enlightenment. It stays with you forever.

 

Maybe for some people, living in some cultures, psychedelics are a path to higher spirituality and maybe enlightenment--but do any of you really think that they are that same path for people who access the internet, have 9-5 jobs, drive cars, etcc?

 

The idea that taking psychedelics alone, repeatedly, and reaching enlightenment is a lie, and any lie you believe warps your mind. Such delusion gets you nowhere. Psychedelics are great fun for some, but you are still just spinning you wheels-not getting very far.

 

Also, the idea of something in pill or liquid form that you can take in order to bypass a lot of hard work which would otherwise be necessary to achieve and end goal SMACKS of capitalism and consumer culture. Don't be a sheep, even a black sheep.

 

Get out there (or inside, meditation), do the work, and advance yourself spiritually! If you try psychedelics, dont get stuck on them, and good luck finding all the right pieces when you break open your head.

 

PEACE!

Edited November 18, 2009 by everseeking

[findley]

(psychedlic) Drugs can be as much a boon as they can a nusiance.

 

they have the potential to OPEN YOUR MIND to experiences otherwise unattainable. They may not be genuine 'enlighened' experiences, but it is opening your mind to new dimensions nevertheless. This is a good thing.

 

Besides. You know, most of the people i have met who take mushrooms on regular basis (few times a year,) are usually niceer-than-average people.

 

You're such an authority on the matter, though, Darin. You, of course, know what is best. good job.

 

It almost makes me want to learn how to swing a stick around, so I can teach little boys to do it to.

[voidisyinyang]

http://www.singingtotheplants.com/