Retention and Neediness

[Eternal_Student]

I would love to expound on the actual techniques, but as I DO make my living instructing, I cannot give the product away for free! I've spent too long experimenting and training to just, "let it fly"! Pardon the pun...

 

With that said, the Chia practices can promote a higher sublimation of qi and work great with a partner.

They are laking in "cold" sublimation techniques, which is where the real power comes from. The spiritual growth is usually associated with the yang aspects, where the yin aspects affect the physical solidarity more.

 

I am writing a book on this very topic as we speak.

There is a simplified manner to moving qi in the body that I am breaking down into more edible parts.

More to follow...

 

My advice is to tune your instrument accordingly. Too loose and frivolous and it wont play right. Too regimented and tight, and it will break. Find the common ground.

[TzuJanLi]

Greetings..

 

My advice is to tune your instrument accordingly. Too loose and frivolous and it wont play right. Too regimented and tight, and it will break. Find the common ground.

Balance? learn 'listening' skills, listen to your 'natural' energies.. you will know what's right and when it's right..

 

By all means, it is appropriate keep everything in working order.. the old saying, "use it or lose it" comes to mind.. but, not recreationally, 'listening skills' will reveal appropriateness.. one can expect nocturnal emmisions in the early phases of training, while the discipline is 'physical'..

 

Be well..

[宁]

the Chia practices can promote a higher sublimation of qi and work great with a partner.

They are laking in "cold" sublimation techniques, which is where the real power comes from.

 

"Cold' sublimation techniques are included in the first level, and the third is all about them. The higher you go, up to the ninth level, the more you learn to ballance and integrate the Qi.

I understand why you don't want to talk more, it's the same reason for me also. It took me quite some years to figure it all out. Plus the countless hours of training and discussing the practices with the teacher. Learning about how they interact, this is the secret that opened the doors for me.

 

@Trunk,

 

From what I've seen in me and around me, we need three factors for the practices to work the way they are supposed to:

- a good outline of the practice

- a teacher that got it going

- a prepared student

Take away one ingredient, and you'll have all the list of discontentments in this thread.

[UTI]

Interesting topic for me, since I have recently taken up retention practices. I took it up partly because I read the Chia book, and partly because I wanted to do foundation work. I realized after two weeks that the Chia book isn't for me, and I found the techniques harmful and ineffective, now I have more of my own flow that I follow during intercourse which works really well.

 

I don't have problems with overheating, although I very soon realized that meditation and overall calm is very needed to not go bonkers. I also made several restrictions to my diet. No wheat or sugars, meat only once a month at maximum, preferably none. No caffeine or alcohol.

 

I would love to hear more about the cooling, does it have to do with breathing technique and leading the energy down the front of the body?

 

When I started I felt completely revitalized, that I was truly keeping all my jing etc. After a while though I realized that the feeling had a lot to do with overdose of fire in the organs, leading to constant horniness and all that mental unrest. But to me it is merely a matter of putting it to use. Making sure the energy circulates at orgasm, that all of it isn't stuck in the abdomen/testicles. It can't be escaped though that the jing is obviously burnt away slightly by the sexual excitation, making it more gross rather than refining it. Can this be counteracted by remaining more "cool" through the sexual act while still being open emotionally? I guess I'm looking for the balance here, where my jing isn't burnt away and scattered every time I'm aroused, but rather simply heated up slightly to easier go up the spine, where it can then be refined through the microcosmic orbit. I figure it's a matter of habit. Soon enough my body will get the fact that I'm building a new highway.

 

edit; my forum name has nothing to do with my retention practices, in fact i've never had one

Edited November 22, 2009 by UTI

[Fire Dragon]

Wow Guys,

 

A ton of Awesome responses.

 

There is still something I need clarified.

 

Is the practice I'm talking about tame enough to avoid any serious risks?

 

Can I have sex sometimes without coming. Then just come around every two weeks to a month, never retaining for longer than that?

 

I ask this because I do experience some benefits from retention that I'd be sorry to see go.

 

1. It's helping me a great degree with ejaculatory control. I'm learning how to experience pleasure for a longer time, while holding back from ej. This is a big deal for me, and if I could get the hang of it, that would be great for my sexual confidence/ self-esteem.

 

2. The feeling of pent up energy is enjoyable to me. I love going outside and feeling like i could run forever. and getting down and doing push-ups with a different kind of force than when i have come recently.

 

3. The way I interact socially with others is different. When I haven't come for a while I feel more confident, less vulnerable, and therefore generally have interactions with others that feel pretty good.

 

This is what I'm asking and what I would like clarified:

 

Is having sex about once a day,

holding back AND NOT ORGASMING

by every so often withdrawing and holding my pc muscles to lower my arousal, until we're both satisfied with the interacton,

then coming every 2 weeks to a month,

 

Is this a gentle enough practice to not cause harm?

 

 

 

Actually, I think doing just the pc muscle contraction can be harmful if you have sex everyday and not ejaculate more than perhaps twice a month.

 

My suggestion is that you not use just the pc-muscle contraction. Leave it out or learn the whole method seriously.

 

Untill then: You might use the coitus interuptus, have sex but not ejaculate, without using the pc contraction. How often you might have intercourse without ejaculate is not easy to say. Perhaps instead of counting days or weeks you can count how many intercouses without ejaculation. Perhaps try this. Do intercouse one time without ejaculation and alternate it with one time with ejaculation. And some of the days stimulate your woman without intercourse, that will just add to variation in your sex life. After a while increase to two intercourses without ejaculation and one with, with days of not intercouse. Try then to find out with experiment when you start to feel the benefits of not ejaculating so much. When you start to not feel drained and having bad feelings. Do this without using the pc-muscle contractions! That method is dangerous! Instead stop quite a while before the point of no return. I hope if you try this you also follow my next suggestion.

 

Go to an acupunturist to find out if you have an energetic imballance, the bad emotions after draing your energy might suggest there is something wrong with you, even perhaps just a litle. If a litle inballance right now it is easier to treat it before it have become a huge imballance.

 

 

Fire Dragon

 

You migth also add the easy exercise of massaging the testicles.

 

Yudelove "Taoist yoga and sexual energy" Page 188

[markern]

I have very little experience with these things, I have not mastered retention at all and I am not going to go back to trying untill I ahve sorted out a lot of other stuff but I have some thoughts based on the little experience I have combined with reading and talking to peopel:

 

 

 

http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?showto...=tantra+teacher

 

http://www.reuniting.info/science/oxytocin_health_bonding

 

Read these. Lots of good advice and the karezza site puts things into perspective. In karezza they achieve a form of multiples through just relaxing and staying at a proper distance from the point of noreturn. I think that most people go to 9,9 and then squeze. In Karezza they more or less go to 9,5 and surf arround that terrirory constantly and sink deeper and deeper into it. Just relaxation, slow brething and proper distance, no technique. This might not feel like much in the bgining. Most guys want to have more of the type of orgasm tehy are used to, explosive. Instead they should realy sink into the sensations that are very close to orgasm but are furhter away than where they are now clenching. It is when you sink into this and mindfully accept and go into this state that the you get a shift in energy and it naturaly becomes more upward flowing and "spiritual"/ At first this place feels a little bit to tame and not what you want to multiply but this is were if you relax and sink into it it will slowly start to expand a lot.

 

I think lots of beely breathing is key to mastering this. The better you are at it a nd the more relaxed you are and the more you can control your chi the more you can manage this while having quicker paced sex. The more fast paced and excited type of sex produces a different energy which probably has a lot more dopamine in it than the karezza orgasm. In all likelyhood that is a huge part of the explanation for why people get trouble integrating the energy from retention. THe Karezza theory is that orgasm with a partner creates both dopamine and oxytocin. Dopamin is realted to excitement and oxytocin to love and bonding. Dopamine actually kills oxytocint o some extent so that the afterglow with cuddling which is braught on by loads of oxytocin after orgasms only lasts about 10 min untill the dopamine from orgasm gets arround to killing it. According to the karezza people when they forsake conventional orgasm this afterglow lasts for hours and days which probably means that there is much less dopamine in this type of valey orgasm thatn in the conventional orgasms. Those who practice this kind of sex descirbe it as harmonizing on the individual and bonding in its results for the couple (because the serotonin dopamine balance is changed). THey also say that people who have read Chias books and now experience multiples of a conventional kind say that they feel a huge shift it they change to karezza style and that the conventional multiples made them overexcited and unbalanced whereas these orgasms make them balanced and satvic. This is probably because of a combination of the level of relaxation during sex AND the closeness to the point of return. Those who are very high level probably experience a lot more of this naturally because their levels of relaxation makes them very relaxed even when they are having quite vigorous sex and because thir breathing and orbits naturaly bring the energy upwards so that there is little point in going to 9,9 and squezing like a madman.

 

There is also a big difference in taking energy from the lower centers and throwing it up in the body and letting it flow like a nutrual river and actually blend and transform at each energy point on the way up. The feeling I get from most descriptions of beginers pulling energy up is that they just end up having the same energy as int the gentials in the heart and head area and this feels overcooked and out of place for them. Probably in this instance the energy from low down is just close to the higher energies but neither blended with them nore transformed into them.

On Trunks site there is mention of a tecnique where energy from the heart is pulled down to the sexual center and vice cersa. This is said to balance out a lot of the problems with retention, cooling people of and refining the energy. I have tried it sometimes and can definitively see that this should work. The inner smile I have also been told can do a similar job of balancing out the sexual energy all over the body because it sends heart energy to every cell. So if you do the inner smiel and also add the intension of blending the smiling energy with the sexual energy it encounters a lot of cooling and refinment is done by just that.

 

Two teachers of taoist sex and tantra I have a lot of respect for both told me that ultimately it is the energy of the heart that balances out the sexual energy so that it can be integrated well. Various methods can do that or it can happen by itself. THis is very interesting when seen together with the information from Karezza. oxytocin is a heart and love hormone. WHat makes the karezza apraoch work is probably reducing a certain type of lower level excitement that amps dopamine and a relaxation that lets eenrgy flow up and blend with the heart and higher centers thus producing more oxyctocin. Also the karezza style is very heartcentered and "cuddly" thus producing even more oxytocin. THis also provides a possible partial explanation for the difference between solo sex and dual cultivation. Not much heart involved in jacking of usually but with a partner you love lots of heart energy produced by itself and thus more balanced. Not just exchange of yin and yang but production of loving feelings within yourself. THis shoudl also relate a lot to what biff said about being in a giving mindset. Santi aslo has said something about doing it with someone you really love makes a lot of the alchemy automatic.

 

So to sum up what you want is multiple orgasms that happen more or less by itself, through gentle intent or through breathing or all of these. You also want the orgasms to be of a different nature than what you are used to, you want one or more streaming seamingly endless valey orgasms not a bunch of peak orgasms. If you are having the same orgasms as before only bigger and more of them you are doing something wrong. When you are having really long sessions you should be left with the feelin gof having had a more spritual and more loving experience. You should feel both more harmonized and more cuddly a long time afterwards. THe realtionship should become more steady and there should naturally be more toucing etc. Otherwise soemthing is probably wrong with the oxytocin and dopamine balance in tyour orgasms. The heart energy is what harmonises most of this. A lot of what is not harmonised through the sex itself can be harmonised by blending heart and sexual energy directly and throught the inner smile. Testicle breating can be a good cool of. Remember that energy is suposed to blend and transform when it moves not just be out of place.

 

How do you get this to happen by itself and how do you have the right orgasms? As mentioned i think lots and lots of belly breathing is key, absolute key. Another very good option is of course to have a lot of karezza style sex. The pace and aproach makes this happen spontainiuosly. Once this has started to happen during such sessions you will be able to manage it more and more in sessions that are more vigorous. The more you cultivate with meditation chi gong etc. the easier it is to expand the more vigorous sex. I dont remember if the parasymphatic ore the sympathetic nervous system or whetever they are claaed control the realxed and passive or the actice functions in the body but my gues is that you either want to have a slight dominance of the relaxed system or you want perfect balance in order both for having the right orgasms and for being able to having multiples effortlessly. Anotehr option is the aneros. The aneros helps men get multiples analy without even touching the penis and without any technique. Beyond ptting it in contra=cting a bit to get it going and relax and breathe lax and breathe. THe great thing about it is that it can not be forced no matter what you do. Only relaxation and breathing will make it happen. So this teaches you to do it right. Many who use the aneros experience that using it makes it much easier to have multiples during normal lovemaking as new neural pathways has been made.

 

When you are solcultivating it is actually possible to bring in a lot more love and heart energy. Sex teachers Annie Sprinkle and Joseph Kramer suggest masturbating in ways where you REALLy make love TO yourself with lots of caressing etc. to get the heart going and spredaing the energy. Also afterwards having a relaxing yin face where you let the energy circualte by itself and nurture the rest of the body is also good. You can also at this point do blending with the heart,inner smile and maybe some testicle breathing.

 

Dr lins technique using the tailbone muslce is agreed upon to be much better and less forcefull than Chias so use that in stead if you can.

 

The sexual energy amplifies emotions a lot so it is very important to having your emotions in check. The secret smile is superb for this and very very effective and it also cleanses channels very well and such is great in this context. It also spreads love and happiness all over your body and so should help in doing some of the blending as well. Maybe because secret smile also blends in orgasmic energy with the emotions it has some sort of extra harmonising effect on the sexual energy?

 

At the karezza site there is an article about neo taoism that I find interesting. It contrast the style of retention practied by people who has read chia and contrast this with descriptions by Lao Tsu. THe way Lao Tsu describes sex with mulitples is extreemly similar to karezza and so much more yin, "water path" or whatever you want to call it.

 

Actually I thinkt hat it is not so much relaxation as mindfulness that makes it easier to achieve multiples and that transforms the energy itno more beneficial more spiritual and loving energy. When I was experimenting with this I saw that there is a desperate craving for release when you get close to the point of no return. This craving itself create a lot of what made the ejaculation start. Relaxing helped but what realy did it was midnfully acepting what I was feeling. When I did that I go away from the point of no return AND I got a lot MORE arroused and orgasmic at that instant. I think when the karezza people surf at 9,5 instead of 9,9 and sinc deeper into that this is what happens for them also even if they do not use the word midnfulness. Relaxation makes mindfulness happen a lot by itself but there is still a big difference between the two. Also I felt that the midnfulness naturally made the energy go upwards in the centers and, extreemly importantly, TRansformed the energy as it was going upwards with zero concios effort. This was the exact opposite of my experience trying to push energy upwards with the orbit which amounted more to sending sexual eenrgy up the bully the upper centers because no tranfsormation ocured since I did it forcefully. I actually believe that mindfulness meditation is a much more important practice to have success with rention both in terms of having the mulitples but also having hte right orgasms.

 

Another point to have in mind is that you are moving towards more bliss. When you are having orgasms of the conventional kind these are expansive and outward reaching and explosive and hot. If you go to 9,9 and contract you get more of these. But you want to do more of what I have described instead and when you do the orgasms should start feeling more and more subtle, the shoudl get a hgiher vibration after while and should get closer to meditative oceanic lbiss than what people think about if you ask them to think about a really powerfull orgasm.

 

An important thing to note is that the karezza principles aply to women also in order to have the correct type of orgasm. Even women usually or often have a style of orgasm that might by quite wavelike but is till often too expansive and hot.

 

And also by the way it seemed to me while I was experiementing witht hsi stuff that even if you use the pc muscle contractions you still do not need to contract hard as long as you relax. It felt like I was more successfull if I contracted only lightly but my intention was "strong" (do not want a power metaphore here. I do not mean strong as in any sort of tension but more like strong intention in the sense of a strong and clear intention to move energy during very relaxed qigong). Despite this it seemed like it helped that the muscle had been trained a lot and was strong to begin with although using the strength did not help. So I gues maybe this says something about that what matters is more your ability to conciously control the pc muscle not the strenght you aply when you control it. It is more about muscular consciousness than strenght.

Edited November 22, 2009 by markern

[宁]

We live in a crazy world, and it gets crazier by the day...

I think sanity and common sense value more than thousands of techniques...

IMHO, this is the best foundation training...

Without them, no matter what you do or seek, it's just a waste.

 

That, and I have something more to add: it's deadly important to know how stupid you are.

To map your stupidity.

Seriously... How much stupidity you have, where does it dwell, how does it hide, where does it curve up, where does it curve down, where does it flow, where does it stand, where does it shine, where does it not..

Otherwise you'll never get rid of it... you'll always blame something else... and this attitude is a common sign that you're full of it...

That's how I understand 'discernment'.

[Trunk]

@Trunk,

 

From what I've seen in me and around me, we need three factors for the practices to work the way they are supposed to:

- a good outline of the practice

- a teacher that got it going

- a prepared student

Take away one ingredient, and you'll have all the list of discontentments in this thread.

I'd agree that those would be ideal ingredients, (how they show up in real life .. that gets complex and we probably have differing views) - clearly you got a combination that worked for you. ... and you think that - if actually applied - will work for everyone. .. ah, well .. We're on different pages, but I'm relieved that we can find some common ground and be kind to each other.

 

sincerely,

Trunk

[witch]

Finally a question I think I can answer! Get my book The Orgasmic Diet and you will have no problem keeping up with your girlfriend and less of a feeling of depletion afterwards. Also there are two very easy ways to keep from having an orgasm that won't wreck your plumbing. Of course, first off make sure you don't get too close to the point of no return. To bring down your arousal level, do slow deep belly breathing. Also bring your concentration up--not thinking of baseball stats but thinking of how much you love and cherish your girlfriend, thinking cuddly warm affection, bringing your focus up to your heart.

 

Also, it might be edifying for you to see how much she wants your cock vs. how much she wants your semen. If she's wanting you to give her vaginal orgasms, she'll be almost as happy if you use a nice dildo on her. If she's not vaginally orgasmic and only wants your semen, she will angrily refuse a dildo. Another tell is if she's as happy with 69ing as with regular sex. A woman wanting vaginal orgasms will like 69ing, but will want penetration before you come.

[Non]

Finally a question I think I can answer! Get my book The Orgasmic Diet and you will have no problem keeping up with your girlfriend and less of a feeling of depletion afterwards. Also there are two very easy ways to keep from having an orgasm that won't wreck your plumbing. Of course, first off make sure you don't get too close to the point of no return. To bring down your arousal level, do slow deep belly breathing. Also bring your concentration up--not thinking of baseball stats but thinking of how much you love and cherish your girlfriend, thinking cuddly warm affection, bringing your focus up to your heart.

 

Also, it might be edifying for you to see how much she wants your cock vs. how much she wants your semen. If she's wanting you to give her vaginal orgasms, she'll be almost as happy if you use a nice dildo on her. If she's not vaginally orgasmic and only wants your semen, she will angrily refuse a dildo. Another tell is if she's as happy with 69ing as with regular sex. A woman wanting vaginal orgasms will like 69ing, but will want penetration before you come.

 

damn, ok.

[immortal_sister]

 

Also, it might be edifying for you to see how much she wants your cock vs. how much she wants your semen. If she's wanting you to give her vaginal orgasms, she'll be almost as happy if you use a nice dildo on her. If she's not vaginally orgasmic and only wants your semen, she will angrily refuse a dildo. Another tell is if she's as happy with 69ing as with regular sex. A woman wanting vaginal orgasms will like 69ing, but will want penetration before you come.

 

i have to respectfully disagree with this. i couldn't care less about using a dildo, and i couldn't care less about semen. i am vaginally orgasmic, and although playing with a dildo is fun, it is not even in the same category as having real sex. furthermore, if i want a vaginal orgasm, even though 69ing is fun and enjoyable, it will not quench my desire for a vaginal orgasm, kwim? again, the two are not the same, and has nothing to do with wanting semen.

 

although it is true that some women are hooked on the idea of a man coming and/or his ejaculate, i think witch is kind of over-simplfying the whole thing. the statements she made are completely untrue for me, and for many women i know. not trying to be rude to witch, or overly confusing to non, but i think sex and desire is never black and white. honestly, just be open and talk about it with your girlfriend. that's the best place to start.

Edited November 23, 2009 by immortal_sister

[宁]

I'd agree that those would be ideal ingredients, (how they show up in real life .. that gets complex and we probably have differing views) - clearly you got a combination that worked for you. ... and you think that - if actually applied - will work for everyone. .. ah, well .. We're on different pages, but I'm relieved that we can find some common ground and be kind to each other.

 

sincerely,

Trunk

 

Trunk,

 

I'm not sure the practices were meant to work for everyone, under any conditions...

In the past, as you know, there were always some select that were chosen, and the secrets were revealed to them... and they had to follow a set of rules, of do's and don't's, and many other restrictions.

I come from a democratic country, yet I don't believe in democracy = power to all the people.

In the past people believed in meritocracy = power to those that have gathered enough merit (the Chinese traditional way) - that's why we are on 'different pages'.

Master Chia's experiment, of teaching everything to everyone, is for me pretty convincing... look at the results... Yet, paradoxically, I'm a practicioner only because I had a democratical chanse at it

[markern]

Trunk,

 

I'm not sure the practices were meant to work for everyone, under any conditions...

In the past, as you know, there were always some select that were chosen, and the secrets were revealed to them... and they had to follow a set of rules, of do's and don't's, and many other restrictions.

I come from a democratic country, yet I don't believe in democracy = power to all the people.

In the past people believed in meritocracy = power to those that have gathered enough merit (the Chinese traditional way) - that's why we are on 'different pages'.

Master Chia's experiment, of teaching everything to everyone, is for me pretty convincing... look at the results... Yet, paradoxically, I'm a practicioner only because I had a democratical chanse at it

 

Jeeeeezes get in touch with reality will yah. Compare the track record of how many people get problems with Chias system with how many people get problems with other systems. AYP for example has a soooooooo much better track record of bringing powerfull results with very few problems. Compare Chia with KAP. KAP is much more powerfull and much, much, much safer. A bunch of former Chia students are now practicing these exact systems with so much better results and also complete beginners are getting so much better results. I belive the same holds very much true for stillness movement as well. And even Kunlun seems much safer. Doing Vipassana combined with some basic qigong will also have a waaay much higher chance of actually getting you enlightened and is much safer. You said somewhere that you considered Mantaks systme not just the best but SAFEST available in the west. How on earth can you see Chias system as safer than B.K. Francis? It is just so obivuoslu much more safe and his instructions are filled with the advice not emphasised enough in chias books. Francis actually gets the point across about safety so that poeple take it seriously. I am not saying the universal tao system can not be done well or does not lead to enlightenement or does not have many great practices but I think it has many flaws in the way Chia teaches it and I have never seen any other system so consistently critiqued for the exact same things time and time again. Michael Winn has made a lot of changes for this very reason and so has a bunch of other teachers of the system. One of Winns changes is adding a bunch of good preliminary qigong another is only teaching the sexual practices after fusion to balance out emotions before charging you with sexual energy that reinforces whatever state you are in. Winn has a huge amount of experience teaching this and has seen the large number of people that get in trouble if you do not make those changes. Another one is the practice of sending the pearl out of the head. Acording to Winn a large number of practioners got completlly fucked up for years after doing that acording to Mantaks instructions. And then there is Iron shirt which also has created shitloads of trouble for a lot of people. And the opening of the orbit that is done so much better and more naturally by many others I took the general basic retreat and Chia did not teach that content with anywhere near satisfactory cautionary advice. I also think the system relies way too much on visualisation and doing and has virtually no emphasis on sitting in stilness and letting things happen by themselves. At my retreat there was not a singel mention of mindfulness or anything that cloesly resembels it. Everything was about aproaching this stuff like an enginer, cleaning out unwholesome stuff by active doing. JUst that one missing piece, mindfulness, is probably resposnible for a shitload of trouble with this system. I am not really sure a system can be called spiritual without mindfullness as a central part if not THE central part. And the word mindfulness is irelevant I am talking about the content. I am also suspecting that this makes the system much less effective when you are actually getting close to enlightenement with it because that is when only aceptance of what is and surrender can get you further and that is so unbelivably poorly taught, if at all?, by Chia.

 

Many other systems such as ayp, KAP and stilness movement do a lot better even though their students are not magically better prepared. Their students are just better THAUGHT.

 

By the way I practice healing sounds myself and love the inner smile and actually want to practice fusion at some point because I believe it is superb for balancing me emotionaly but I want to learn it in a simpler manner as taught by some of his students and I want to either have my orbit open by itself or use someone elses methods of opening it. Chia actually had me trying to open it on the general basic retreat whcih in my case would have been a guarantee of frying my head as I would have quickly gotten a hang of getting energy up but my front was really blocked. Luckily I stopped with those atempts.

 

As for democracy in a politacal context, compare the track record over time of democracies with the track records of dictatorship on absolutely any measure you want and democracies have done better by such unbelivably huge margin you have to be retarded to have a general faith in dictatorships as oposed to democracies. Sure in a few instances for a shorter period of time in very specific context a dictatorship has been better for a country because they were lucky enough to get the one dictator out of a hundred that did not ONLY fill his own pockets and wreck havoc. This is such a rare occurence and impossible to predict so I acnt see why one would bother with the thought. Without checks and balances almost everyone becomes corupt or at least very abusive eventually. Consider also the fact that democracies have more or less not fought each other in wars.

Edited November 23, 2009 by markern

[fiveelementtao]

From what I have heard... It is well "rumored" that Chia stole much, if not all, of his info from One Cloud's (I think is his name) manuscripts without having him explain what they mean. So Chia did his best to try and figure out the manuscript on his own.. Most taoist manuscripts are written in code with at least one or two things left out that have to be explained by a lineage holder. Without a lineage holder to explain the missing or "poetic" secrets in the text, you have at best an incomplete system... Chia has been busted for outright plagiarism. The main problem for me with Chia is twofold: 1) His teachings have really damaged alot of people, and 2) There's no way to know what of his teachings is directly and accurately taught from a valid teacher and what is stuff Chia stole, got totally wrong or outright made up.

 

Just got this from a search...

http://www.healingtaousa.com/cgi-bin/tpost.pl?smessage=990

[IchBinEin]

I've learned so much from all of these responses.

 

Should I be safe if i just drop all locking/blocking methods altogether and, while having sex, remain at a point of arousal where those are not crucial to stopping ejaculation?

 

I can do that.

 

It will take some time to learn to ride that level of arousal, but if I can keep myself from harm THAT IS NUMBER 1.

 

 

Multiple responders have suggested "deep belly breathing" and relaxation,

both during the act (to regulate my arousal level)

and after ejaculation (to lessen the feeling of being depleted).

 

Is "deep belly breathing" just deep and slow breathing into the diaphragm?

 

Is there a simple practice I can do to work on this? On my own and with a partner?

 

 

 

Are there any risks of plain old non-ejaculatory sex, without the use of any muscle contractions intended to hold back from ej?

 

 

 

Also,

 

@witch

 

I'm on a raw food diet which helps me with anxiety and gives me a feeling of being very clear headed.

 

I'm not at a point where I'm ready to give that up. But I have added modifications based on your suggestions I've read in other threads.

 

Fish oil being one.

 

I take about a tablespoon of fish oil every morning.

 

I also am aware of my zinc levels, and along with a multivitamin, try to load up on pumpkin seeds and/or brazil nuts when I'm feeling depleted.

 

Is there anything else I should be keeping an eye on?

[markern]

I've learned so much from all of these responses.

 

Should I be safe if i just drop all locking/blocking methods altogether and, while having sex, remain at a point of arousal where those are not crucial to stopping ejaculation?

 

I can do that.

 

It will take some time to learn to ride that level of arousal, but if I can keep myself from harm THAT IS NUMBER 1.

Multiple responders have suggested "deep belly breathing" and relaxation,

both during the act (to regulate my arousal level)

and after ejaculation (to lessen the feeling of being depleted).

 

Is "deep belly breathing" just deep and slow breathing into the diaphragm?

 

Is there a simple practice I can do to work on this? On my own and with a partner?

Are there any risks of plain old non-ejaculatory sex, without the use of any muscle contractions intended to hold back from ej?

Also,

 

@witch

 

I'm on a raw food diet which helps me with anxiety and gives me a feeling of being very clear headed.

 

I'm not at a point where I'm ready to give that up. But I have added modifications based on your suggestions I've read in other threads.

 

Fish oil being one.

 

I take about a tablespoon of fish oil every morning.

 

I also am aware of my zinc levels, and along with a multivitamin, try to load up on pumpkin seeds and/or brazil nuts when I'm feeling depleted.

 

Is there anything else I should be keeping an eye on?

 

Bruce kumar frantsis has excellent material on belly breathing. Check it up on amazon. I think this riding the wave strategy sounds good. Try to get your girlfriend to have sex with you Karezza style a few times as an experiment and see whrere that takes you. I think as long as you retain semen and have sex there will always be the possibility of harm in the form of building up too much hot energy and all that styff mentioned but the danger is less with the aproach you are now taken and I think less and less the more you find the more spiritual orgasm that I believe often comes easier with Karezza and aneros for most people. A thing to consider might be to build up the length of your retention periods slowly. 4 days between each time you come for some time then six or something for a while etc. My meditation teacher which has had tremendous success with retention and gotten the results exactly like they are mentioned in the books suggested this. That way you can have more time to adjust to the new energy levels and sense the difference between different lenghts of retention periods and more easily see what is right for you.

[Eternal_Student]

Zinc, check. Watching your protein level to make sure its full after ejaculating, check. Not putting too much heat directly in the head, check. All good points.

 

Try to only pull the "arousal" qi up to just below the organs for a while. Don't head straight for your head and heart off the bat. Especially if you are not totally dedicated to your partner. IE, its a girlfriend rather than wife. Spend a good time just pulling the arousal to the top of the dantien and then let it cycle back down. Make sure your partner knows what you are doing as well. The act of combining sex qi from a partner has a very specific effect on your karma as well. You can start to take on some of your partners history, as well as give her some of your own. This is how couples start looking alike, dressing alike and sounding alike after a good amount of time.

 

Practice. Just like anything else, you are going to have to practice alone. Stepping up to the plate is much easier if you've spent countless hours at the batting cages. And the "cold" techniques are for when you are not aroused. They do not just focus on bringing the qi down the front channel. It is about sublimating the "cold" jing into qi without having the distraction of heated sex.

 

Take a seminar! This is a very complex art and can mess up your system if you don't have a good teacher. There is a good reason these teachings used to be closed door. Its not for everyone. I recommend Winn, I have met him personally and he knows his stuff. If you have questions along the way, you can always ask myself as well.