The difference between Chi Kung and Nei Kung

[ChiDragon]

 

"Ling Bao Tong Zhi Neng Nei Gong Shu is a guide for meditation"

 

I think it has already given you a clue: It will guide you to meditation which is the exercise in the preliminary level for Neigong. Hence, meditation is the cultivated part of exercise and the result is Neigong. Neigong is something which effects the internal organs of a human body.

Edited March 16, 2014 by ChiDragon

[Andrei]

It is the oral teachings that you don't find in any other book, actually they are notes from Wang Liping seminars, but organized as a book. It is packed with exercises, but unless other books or other teachers or systems when you have to buy several books to have access to the whole system, in this book you have them all what you need. It is ridiculously simple, but I guess people prefer to complicate things. I prefer to keep it simple, and I like when I have everything I need in one single book.

[mizpulyn]

http://www.amazon.com/Ling-Bao-Tong-Neng-Gong/dp/1470174545/

 

book ordered !!!

 

one has to be cautious today with about 1.000.000 books about Cchi... not to get a book full of talking and philosophy and references to excercises but not EXCERCISES... i belive this one could be good...

 

also ordered:

 

http://www.amazon.com/KUNLUN®-System-Alchemy-Leading-Within/dp/098522360X/

 

just out of curiosity... i noticed KUNLUN is adored by some here and frauned by others... i prefer to read the book and make my own opinion...

 

any other public Nei Gong systems ?

Edited March 16, 2014 by mizpulyn

[Andrei]

Me too I am a fan of kunlun system, which is also a "one book has all you need" kind of system. That is my second best choice. The most useful i found in this book is the 5 elements of maoshan exercises which basically are zhan zhuang exercises with different hand postures, the similar postures that you can find in the STand still, be fit series on youtube. Which is what I practiced the most.

[thamosh]

Neikung is chikung with purpose.

 

Martial, spiritual, or medical

 

 

For neikung is the inner skill and manipulation of chi for these various purposes.

 

 

Whether its alchemical martial or medical.

 

 

You can not seperate an art and its meditations.

 

 

Gong fu is a very deep science....

 

Enlightenment thru martial art is a real thing.

 

I remember onetime I was doing my taichi form. An all of a sudden I felt this big all open up above my crown chakra and I felt this spinning vortex around me and I felt this almost unlimited electrical energy building in me.

 

When you learn gong fu you are learning the art and expression of the energies that the particular art works with meaning.

 

So if the art works with particular light element then the movements of that gong fu art teaching you how to channel and express that element for healing and kung fu.

 

In kung fu there is

 

the shape

the stances

the ging

the element

the range

the spirit

 

This is just the basics...

 

There is also

 

Heaven man and earth

directions

The sun moon and stars

Yin Yang

and so on.

 

In kung fu there is the power of life and death. Yin and Yang

 

The meds and the kung fu are paired...... Can not be seperated.....

 

Learn the art love the art and complete your self.

[grady]

See Qigong Fever by David Palmer

 

and Falun Gong and the Future of China by David Ownby

 

The above books cover the history of the modern use of the term qigong.

 

Strictly speaking, in China, 'qigong', or 'chi kung', is the catch-all term for the different methods of qi cultivation. That includes 'neigong' or 'nei kung'. Throughout Chinese history, different schools have used different names to describe their practices. Some, if not many, still use the old names. For public understanding though, qigong is used.

 

Why the qigong vs neigong debate now? Look at the history. In the 1950s and 60's and the 1980's to early 1990's qigong practices were widely promoted for health reasons. Books were written for this purpose. Some better than others, but many, if not all of them, simplified versions of older methods. Why? Because the method had to be learnable from a book. Complex and/or dangerous practices need a teacher. Also, different levels of instruction need to be done directly.

 

What BKF has done is create his own definition, in the same manner that Donn Draeger did with bugei/budo. It serves to distinguish between the old and new. It isn't however considered 'official' or necessarily recognised by others. Dr Yang does have a lot of qigong and martial arts teaching experience, however there are texts that he is simply a translator of-he has not had direct instruction from a teacher in those methods. The texts alone are largely useless without a teacher.

 

Within BKF's area of study-the arts of taijiquan, ba gua and hsing i-the term neigong is used. However, in other schools of martial arts and cultivation, different terms are used. This doesn't make them inferior-they just use names that the founders or earlier teachers thought more appropriate.

 

Finally, just because one school calls what it does 'neigong', that does not mean it is better than other methods, including some that use the term 'qigong'. The teacher and the method are paramount, not the names.

 

Everyone re-read this post 3 times.

 

Mjjbecker is correct, this is how this terminology is understood and used in China.

 

Anything else is just marketing.

Edited March 18, 2014 by grady

[Ya Mu]

I think you will find that simply looking at the terms qigong and neigong, due to their immense variety of use, will give no clue as to whether a system includes Heaven & Earth specific approaches.

[CloudHands]

On 16/03/2014 at 5:30 PM, Andrei said:

 

This is true. Here is the book:

 

http://www.amazon.com/Ling-Bao-Tong-Neng-Gong/dp/1470174545

 

Thanks Andrei.

[CloudHands]

.

Edited December 27, 2019 by CloudHands
double

[CloudHands]

.

Edited December 27, 2019 by CloudHands
triple

[rideforever]

Wang Liping Books :   there are several Wang Liping books available.  Does anyone know which one is best ?  Thanks.

 

Richard Liao
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/19418647-ling-bao-tong-zhi-neng-nei-gong-shu

Nathan Brine upcoming Feb 2020

https://nathanbrine.com/pore-breathing-book-excerpt/

 

Kohn, Bartosh

https://uhpress.hawaii.edu/product/daoist-internal-mastery/

 

 

 

 

[silent thunder]

27 minutes ago, rideforever said:

Wang Liping Books :   there are several Wang Liping books available.  Does anyone know which one is best ?  Thanks.

 

Richard Liao
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/19418647-ling-bao-tong-zhi-neng-nei-gong-shu

Nathan Brine upcoming Feb 2020

https://nathanbrine.com/pore-breathing-book-excerpt/

 

Kohn, Bartosh

https://uhpress.hawaii.edu/product/daoist-internal-mastery/

So much present in all of those books... but how to determine what is Best?

 

Best for whom?  At what point in their process?  To what end?

 

Having the books and having spent time with the man who wrote them, your question seems unanswerable.

 

 

Try all the soups.  See what you taste. 

Is it for another to tell you what your best is, may be, or could unfold as?

Who is the qualified judge in your unfolding?

 

Who can experience what it is to swim in the river... by reading it in a book?

The word water, may convey much knowledge, but will never slake thirst.

[Shubin]

The term Chi Kung (Qigong, 气功) appeared in mainland of China since 1950s, but the term Nei Kung (Neigong, 内功)  appeared in China earlier (about 100+ years?) than Chi Kung.

Like what mjjbecker mentioned, qigong practices were widely promoted for health reasons among all ages of people including patients. 

Nei Kung is a kind of Kung Fu to generate the internal forces for martial arts, or a kind of exercise to benefit the interanl organs for meditation, etc.

 

[rideforever]

On 24/12/2019 at 5:35 PM, rideforever said:

Wang Liping Books :   there are several Wang Liping books available.  Does anyone know which one is best ?  Thanks.

 

Richard Liao
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/19418647-ling-bao-tong-zhi-neng-nei-gong-shu

Nathan Brine upcoming Feb 2020

https://nathanbrine.com/pore-breathing-book-excerpt/

 

Kohn, Bartosh

https://uhpress.hawaii.edu/product/daoist-internal-mastery/

@CloudHands

@ChiDragon
Would you have any views on these books ?

 

[CloudHands]

12 hours ago, rideforever said:

@CloudHands

@ChiDragon
Would you have any views on these books ?

 

 

Hide Rideforever,

 

I haven't read Ling Bao Tong Zhi Neng Nei Gong Shu and I wasn't aware of the existence of such a book. Generally "guide" books are made by scholars or popularizers -with all due respect- people that enter an "exogamic" group or culture or tradition and transmit what they have learned.

In the case of Wang I'm very enthusiast because I did not expect the head of a daoist sect to write a "guide" book. No intermediary.

 

That being said I have red half of "Opening the dragon gate" and I was fairly disappointed. Not that it's not interesting or useful and I cannot present myself as a judge of what is possible and what is not but personally I don't give it much credibility in term of factual reality.

 

So I'll most definitely read it because Wang Liping has an incredible background (high expectations ! ) but I'm likely to be disappointed since I'm not very receptive on anything asking me to believe in something (magic especially). I mean, I don't need anyone to make the stars brighter, only a spot nice enough to seat and observe their lights.

 

No book nor speech did really brought me up but it can enhance practices and experiences aside from the reading, as I'm not a daoist scholar I'm sure it will upgrade my picture.

[dawei]

On 12/24/2019 at 8:31 PM, Shubin said:

The term Chi Kung (Qigong, 气功) appeared in mainland of China since 1950s, but the term Nei Kung (Neigong, 内功)  appeared in China earlier (about 100+ years?) than Chi Kung.

Like what mjjbecker mentioned, qigong practices were widely promoted for health reasons among all ages of people including patients. 

Nei Kung is a kind of Kung Fu to generate the internal forces for martial arts, or a kind of exercise to benefit the interanl organs for meditation, etc.

 

 

The earliest forms show up on a variety of names but dance on neolitic pottery reveal a beginning in energy movement. 

[CloudHands]

20 hours ago, rideforever said:

@CloudHands

@ChiDragon
Would you have any views on these books ?

 

 

What do you want from these books ?

[rideforever]

1 hour ago, CloudHands said:

What do you want from these books ?

 

Hi, thanks for your comments.  I was trying the pore breathing technique coming from this tradition and found it quite useful and so became interested in the books, to try other basic techniques - I am not sure how far I would go with the path, but if the techniques are practical then good.  Perhaps somebody would know the difference between the books, and could recommend something.

[CloudHands]

57 minutes ago, rideforever said:

 

Hi, thanks for your comments.  I was trying the pore breathing technique coming from this tradition and found it quite useful and so became interested in the books, to try other basic techniques - I am not sure how far I would go with the path, but if the techniques are practical then good.  Perhaps somebody would know the difference between the books, and could recommend something.

 

I don't know you so I can be off but if it can help... the better

If you want to comfort your bases you can join find a trusty a local group. Qi gong, tai ji chuan, nei gong, meditation any a these practices share different shape of a common knowledge (gem!) with differently sided benefits, they are complementary to each others. Practiced in a group with a experienced (and humble) teacher any of these it can be an anchoring point. Community practice is important.

 

Then you have the books for qi gong (nei gong) Yang Jwing-ming is dedicated and honest.

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/337747.The_Root_of_Chinese_Qigong

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/364659.Qigong_Meditation

These are very good books and the second somewhat exhaustive on his subject, many translations of old Chinese texts.

 

On nei dan I can't comment much. It kind of looks like an etheric subject to me like mo pai, some run after it but nobody seems to catch it (from my perspective). Many died ingesting pills... even emperors, and that's a fact.

That's interesting anyhow, myth contains elements of truth but I think it is of prime order to not became a plain believer.

 

So better catch what's at hand and safe, then... up to you !

[rideforever]

ChiKung NeiKung imo

The centres like the LDT have a function in the human world, and also they can be illuminated. 

The LDT's function in this world is the circulation of energy into the organism, breathing into us the vital force from the Schwartz   Source.

The heart centre is similar it has a function in the human world, our feelings ... and it can also be illuminated.

Each centre is like that, having a function in this world and also the possibility of illumination.

 

Different traditions are working on different centres.  The centre of Consciousness is developed in India.  In China they are working on the LDT ... which reflects a different culture, more grounded more belly orientated.  (of course there is some cross over)

 

ChiKung is cultivating the function of the LDT in this world, cultivating the vital force.

NeiKung is working on the spiritualisation of the LDT, on enlightening it which involves discovering your identity in the LDT and merging with the Source.

 

With the heart centre it would be the same, you can work with cultivating your feelings and healing your wounds in the human world ... or you can reach the enlightenment of the heart.

 

At least ... that would make sense to me as a distinction between the two words.

[CloudHands]

Subtle

made

Bricks

of

Patience

and

Work

[idquest]

On 24/12/2019 at 9:35 AM, rideforever said:

Wang Liping Books :   there are several Wang Liping books available.  Does anyone know which one is best ?  Thanks.

 

Richard Liao
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/19418647-ling-bao-tong-zhi-neng-nei-gong-shu

Nathan Brine upcoming Feb 2020

https://nathanbrine.com/pore-breathing-book-excerpt/

 

Kohn, Bartosh

https://uhpress.hawaii.edu/product/daoist-internal-mastery/

 

 

 

 

 

The first and the third books are translations of the so called 'Blue Book' which is a Chinese edition of lectures and talks that WLP gave over several years in 1990-s and earlier 2000-s. 

 

The second book in your list, N. Brine's one, is a systematic outline of WLP's teachings. This is actually volume 1 in a planned series of books. As far as I know, WLP actually strong armed N Brine to write this book as WLP felt that endless re-editions of the same blue books are just confusing.

 

If you want to feel how WLP's system works from the very beginning, start with Nathan's book.

 

Also, the first book of R. Liao contains some translations of texts relevant to the lineage. I'm not sure if Nathan included any texts in his book or not.