Non

Taoism for the beginner

By Non, in General Discussion

Recommended Posts

Non   

Non
Posted

I was looking through the FAQs.. that's a lot of reading. lol. It just seems like a collection of everything even if it can repeat the same information in different ways. Maybe I just don't have the time to study taoism. School, work, etc. But I feel i must develop myself also.. but the world revolves on purely material things such that it's been kinda hard to focus on the internal. SO I guess I'm looking for a fast track , or just being able to focus on one thing at a time.

 

What's a good book or resource to start with? I was thinkin of just starting with the Dao De Jing.

Share this post

Link to post
Share on other sites

voidisyinyang   

voidisyinyang
Posted

This is a great first book:

 

http://www.scribd.com/doc/2672168/Mantak-C...through-the-Tao

 

I was looking through the FAQs.. that's a lot of reading. lol. It just seems like a collection of everything even if it can repeat the same information in different ways. Maybe I just don't have the time to study taoism. School, work, etc. But I feel i must develop myself also.. but the world revolves on purely material things such that it's been kinda hard to focus on the internal. SO I guess I'm looking for a fast track , or just being able to focus on one thing at a time.

 

What's a good book or resource to start with? I was thinkin of just starting with the Dao De Jing.

Share this post

Link to post
Share on other sites

Encephalon   

Encephalon
Posted (edited)

 

Holy Shit!! This link is for the book in its entirety! Thanks DrewH. What's the difference between it and my copy of "Awaken Healing Light of the Tao"?

 

You will initiate an avalanche of reading suggestions. Westerners who aren't typically familiar with non-duality may lose a little in the translations of ancient Chinese texts.

 

I got a lot out of "Awaken Healing Energy..." He delves deeply enough into basic anatomy to make it comprehensible.

Taoism synthesizes virtually every discipline, every academic subject, into a comprehensive theory of life. I'd recommend Deng Ming-Dao's "Scholar/Warrior," and I own every one of his books except for his latest. I'm looking forward to seeing what others have to suggest. Curiosity and a thirst for learning is a sign of an adventurous spirit.

 

Oh yeah... "The Book of Chinese Health and Healing" by Daniel Reid is a must read too, and has an academic quality that is pleasing to those turned off by the New Agey vibe.

Edited by Blasto

Share this post

Link to post
Share on other sites

Non   

Non
Posted

Really... I read that Mantak Chia's stuff is kinda distorted, or new agey.. and techniques are dangerous. Plus he's been noted as kinda fraudulent and or has taken info from another teacher.

Share this post

Link to post
Share on other sites

voidisyinyang   

voidisyinyang
Posted

Actually this is my favorite book by Mantak Chia simply because it's heavy on concrete details provided by the student testimonies. You're getting FEEDBACK from people who have tried the

 

microcosmic orbit.

 

The mco or small universe is the standard practice. That's why I also recommend the http://springforestqigong.com level 1 sitting meditation c.d. to go with the above book and then for more advanced training the book

 

"Taoist Yoga: Alchemy and Immortality:

 

As for Mantak Chia's other books -- we'll he doesn't teach full-lotus which I think really limits his practice levels -- Chunyi Lin says 20 minutes of full-lotus is worth 4 hours of any other meditation.

 

Wang, Liping sits in full-lotus 4 hours a night. Master Nan, Huai-chin focuses on full-lotus.

 

So Mantak Chia's other books are good but not focused enough.

Share this post

Link to post
Share on other sites

Marblehead   

Marblehead
Posted

Hi Non,

 

Regardless of which aspect of Taoism you wish to concentrate on I would still recommend reading the Tao Te Ching and Chuang Tzu so that you understand the basics of the philosophy.

 

Best wishes with your journey.

 

Peace & Love!

Share this post

Link to post
Share on other sites

secularfuture   

secularfuture
Posted

Hi Non,

 

Regardless of which aspect of Taoism you wish to concentrate on I would still recommend reading the Tao Te Ching and Chuang Tzu so that you understand the basics of the philosophy.

 

Best wishes with your journey.

 

Peace & Love!

I agree. Another good starting point would be with the canonical texts.

 

Here's a nice translation of the Tao Te Ching:

http://www.terebess.hu/english/tao/beck.html

Share this post

Link to post
Share on other sites

doc benway   

doc benway
Posted (edited)

My favorite beginner books on Daoism are:

When the Shoe Fits: Stories of the Taoist Mystic Chuang Tzu by Osho

The Tao is Silent by Raymond Smullyan

Ultimately, Daoism is not about knowledge or reading or even any particular practice (although many would probably disagree with me on that point).

That is why the Daoist sage is always portrayed as a bit of an eccentric and simple-minded peasant.

If your goal is to practice Daoist cultivation, I would urge you to look for a teacher, not a book.

Edited by steve f

Share this post

Link to post
Share on other sites

Aetherous   

Aetherous
Posted
that's a lot of reading.

 

I think the best thing for a beginner is to look at the different systems that are out there, and learn practices from a teacher. There is really no need to read a bunch of info when you have practices.

 

I think any of the following paths are good...

Spring Forest

Kundalini Awakening Process

Stillness Movement

Kunlun

 

Of course there are other good ones that I failed to mention...

 

You could study the endless definitions of what "Taoism" is supposed to be about, and gain an intellectual understanding which may or may not be right...but it's better to have direct experience.

 

If someone describes the taste of a banana to you in very specific details, despite describing it in a very clear way, you still might imagine a different taste than what it actually is. Then when you actually try a banana, the imagined taste you had will be useless...because you finally know for yourself.

 

Why collect a bunch of different theories on how bananas taste (by a lot of people who haven't even tasted one), when you can just peel and bite for yourself?

 

banana.JPG

Share this post

Link to post
Share on other sites

fiveelementtao   

fiveelementtao
Posted (edited)

But if he can't find a teacher,

 

Can't find a teacher??? are you serious??? For goodness sake, KAP teaches people live via the internet! How much easier could it be? This forum is FILLED with teachers! With today's small world there literally is NO excuse for not being able to find a teacher. If this person were to ask, "Anyone know of any teachers in my city?" There would be a deluge of links given. If there really is no teacher or practice in their city, they can make a modest trip to a nearby city and begin a practice. People travel to me to learn from all over....

 

In the old days, if you wanted to learn, you did whatever you had to do in order find a teacher. You saved, you scrimped, you traveled on foot for days!!! At most one can say it's inconvenient to find a teacher.

 

If someone is just curious, then by all means read a few books until you are serious enough to find a real tradition...

Edited by fiveelementtao

Share this post

Link to post
Share on other sites

secularfuture   

secularfuture
Posted (edited)
For goodness sake, KAP teaches people live via the internet!

Where, and for how much?

 

With today's small world there literally is NO excuse for not being able to find a teacher.

A teacher can be helpful, but he / she is not required.

 

This is really all you need to get started:

In my opinion... :D

Edited by secularfuture

Share this post

Link to post
Share on other sites

fiveelementtao   

fiveelementtao
Posted

Where, and for how much?

What??? I just told you. Do a search on taobums for KAP. It's all over the place!

A teacher can be helpful, but he / she is not required.

Really? according to whom? To you? To others who have only learned through books or videos?

 

I sounds as though you do not value Taoism very much if you really believe that. Would you trust a carpenter to build your house if he had never learned his craft from a master?

 

Would you trust a dentist to perform oral surgery on you if he had only read some books and never gone to school?

 

Would you trust a physician who had only read books?

 

How much more important is it to learn a spiritual practice like the Tao from a qualified teacher?

 

Books and videos can be very helpful, but they can only teach preliminary techniques and at best will give one the proper motivation to follow through and learn the more advanced techniques. I myself have a video series and if someone were to only practice what I teach on the DVD, it would be very helpful, but there is no way to teach the higher levels of any given practice or tradition except in person.

 

If Tao "ism" is a hobby and someone only wishes the preliminary techniques, then books are great and can give great benefit for a lifetime. But, I doubt there is anyone on this forum who has trained with a qualified teacher who will tell you that you only need books to really learn to practice the Tao.

 

That's all for me on this thread. If someone is determined to be an armchair taoist. there's nothing anyone can say.

Share this post

Link to post
Share on other sites

secularfuture   

secularfuture
Posted

What??? I just told you. Do a search on taobums for KAP. It's all over the place!

"One or all of your search keywords were below 4 characters or you searched for words which are not allowed, such as 'html', 'img', etc, please go back and increase the length of these search keywords or choose different keywords."

 

Really? according to whom? To you? To others who have only learned through books or videos?

Yes, me, yes, and yes. :P

 

I sounds as though you do not value Taoism very much if you really believe that.

I value it very much. It has had a very positive effect on my life.

 

Would you trust a carpenter to build your house if he had never learned his craft from a master?

No, but I do trust Ming-dao Deng, Bruce Frantzis, and Ken Cohen.

 

Would you trust a dentist to perform oral surgery on you if he had only read some books and never gone to school?

Taoism for the laity isn't as complicated as oral surgery.

 

How much more important is it to learn a spiritual practice like the Tao from a qualified teacher?

I am learning from qualified teachers. Ming-dao Deng, Bruce Frantzis, and Ken Cohen are 3 of the best Taoist teachers in the Western world.

 

Books and videos can be very helpful, but they can only teach preliminary techniques and at best will give one the proper motivation to follow through and learn the more advanced techniques.

Advanced techniques are not a perquisite for peace of mind and spiritual harmony.

 

If Tao "ism" is a hobby and someone only wishes the preliminary techniques, then books are great and can give great benefit for a lifetime. But, I doubt there is anyone on this forum who has trained with a qualified teacher who will tell you that you only need books to really learn to practice the Tao.

A teacher can come in handy for advanced techniques, sure, but not everyone needs to go that far.

 

That's all for me on this thread. If someone is determined to be an armchair taoist. there's nothing anyone can say.

An "Armchair Taoist"? Who are you to judge the practicing habits of others? If their approach works, and helps them become a better person, you have no business attacking it.

Share this post

Link to post
Share on other sites

Marblehead   

Marblehead
Posted

 

An "Armchair Taoist"? Who are you to judge the practicing habits of others? If their approach works, and helps them become a better person, you have no business attacking it.

 

I just felt the need to repeat this. And this goes for all of us, myself included.

 

Peace & Love!

Share this post

Link to post
Share on other sites

Non   

Non
Posted (edited)

KAP huh. Is KAP reliable?

 

My friend once told me that no book or dvd has the true way to awaken the kundalini. I'd have to travel to the himalayas and speak to a satguru.

 

Why though? perhaps because it is so secret.

 

IMO books are awesome. How do you think we all learn from school or college? Teachers are more like guides. If you dont understand something and you tried researching yourself then a teacher can help. Furthermore if there is something that can't really be taught in words, then that's another reason to go to a teacher. There's feedback, etc. It's all Information though, whether it's transmitted one on one by a teacher at a local or non-local distance. Words can only do so much. And a teacher can't explain every little thing etc.

Edited by Non

Share this post

Link to post
Share on other sites

fiveelementtao   

fiveelementtao
Posted

KAP huh. Is KAP reliable?

 

My friend once told me that no book or dvd has the true way to awaken the kundalini. I'd have to travel to the himalayas and speak to a satguru.

 

Why though? perhaps because it is so secret.

 

IMO books are awesome. How do you think we all learn from school or college? Teachers are more like guides. If you dont understand something and you tried researching yourself then a teacher can help. Furthermore if there is something that can't really be taught in words, then that's another reason to go to a teacher. There's feedback, etc. It's all Information though, whether it's transmitted one on one by a teacher at a local or non-local distance. Words can only do so much. And a teacher can't explain every little thing etc.

Why ask me about KAP? I am not involved with KAP. I just used it as example.

 

You guys are right in that no one has the authority to judge another's path. But, when someone asks about where to start in the Taoist path, I find it irresponsible to infer that all one needs to do is read a book. Books should be a supplementary tool.

An armchair taoist is just that. If someone sits in an armchair reading books in isolation by definition that makes them an armchair taoist.

 

Secular....

KAP is a perfect example of what I'm trying to say. Real learning takes effort. If you really wanted to know about KAP, you could very easily find out today. Put some effort into it. You are surrounded by KAP students on taobums...

 

I think books are awesome too. I probably have more than you.... But reading a book by Deng ming Dao or Bruce Frantzis does NOT in any way mean you are training with him any more than reading a medical book makes you a doctor. Some of the books by deng ming dao and others are as much fiction as they are real. They are tools for the entertainment of the intellect to inspire further inquiry. They are not considered as scriptures or textbooks...

 

I challenge any of you to contact these authors and ask them if they would consider reading their books as a replacement for personal training... Go to any Taoist temple, monastery etc. and tell the the priest or master that it is not necessary to learn from a teacher... Please tell me what they tell you...

 

A book cannot correct your mistakes.... That is what real learning is, having a teacher guide you and correct you. Only a living breathing teacher can do that.

 

Listen, my point was never to bag on people for reading books. I'm getting more upset about this than is necessary. I think it is fairly obvious to anyone that Taoism and taoist practices cannot be deeply experienced or understood without in depth training. Everyone has the right to learn as much or as little as they want and all paths are just as valid. But, I have a very hard time just sitting by while others claim that reading books is all that is necessary.... And, while I enjoy books as much as anyone, no one can responsibly or believably say that books are an effective replacement for training with a qualified teacher. My only point is that books are NOT a replacement for a real teacher...

Share this post

Link to post
Share on other sites

Non   

Non
Posted

Why ask me about KAP? I am not involved with KAP. I just used it as example.

 

You guys are right in that no one has the authority to judge another's path. But, when someone asks about where to start in the Taoist path, I find it irresponsible to infer that all one needs to do is read a book. Books should be a supplementary tool.

An armchair taoist is just that. If someone sits in an armchair reading books in isolation by definition that makes them an armchair taoist.

 

Secular....

KAP is a perfect example of what I'm trying to say. Real learning takes effort. If you really wanted to know about KAP, you could very easily find out today. Put some effort into it. You are surrounded by KAP students on taobums...

 

I think books are awesome too. I probably have more than you.... But reading a book by Deng ming Dao or Bruce Frantzis does NOT in any way mean you are training with him any more than reading a medical book makes you a doctor. Some of the books by deng ming dao and others are as much fiction as they are real. They are tools for the entertainment of the intellect to inspire further inquiry. They are not considered as scriptures or textbooks...

 

I challenge any of you to contact these authors and ask them if they would consider reading their books as a replacement for personal training... Go to any Taoist temple, monastery etc. and tell the the priest or master that it is not necessary to learn from a teacher... Please tell me what they tell you...

 

A book cannot correct your mistakes.... That is what real learning is, having a teacher guide you and correct you. Only a living breathing teacher can do that.

 

Listen, my point was never to bag on people for reading books. I'm getting more upset about this than is necessary. I think it is fairly obvious to anyone that Taoism and taoist practices cannot be deeply experienced or understood without in depth training. Everyone has the right to learn as much or as little as they want and all paths are just as valid. But, I have a very hard time just sitting by while others claim that reading books is all that is necessary.... And, while I enjoy books as much as anyone, no one can responsibly or believably say that books are an effective replacement for training with a qualified teacher. My only point is that books are NOT a replacement for a real teacher...

 

well I appreciate your thought. Though I have to say that I kinda was looking for a book myself, as an introduction to taoist though and practices.

Share this post

Link to post
Share on other sites

Creation   

Creation
Posted (edited)

I must protest. Trying to practice from Taoist Yoga is not the best course of action here. Drew, how much do you really think you would have gotten out of it if you had not spent the time you did trianing with Chunyi Lin in person?

 

Others have made good recommendations. I'll throw in mine, which mostly echo those of others.

 

Read Tao Te Ching with an eye towards how it applies to life and cultivation. Chia and Huang's Secret Teachings of the Tao te Ching, and the more advanced Revealing the Tao Te Ching by Hu and Parker are great here. I love Liao's Nine Nights with the Taoist Master, but it is pricey.

 

Also, read Zhuang Zi. The one I read was Feng and English's, Mair's and Watson's come recommended to me as well.

 

Another genre to look into is Taoist stories. Eva Wong's Seven Taoist Masters is a great read, as well as her Tales of the Dancing Dragon and Tales of the Taoist Immortals. These will help give you some much needed "culture" so often lacking in Westerners who think that Taoism is all about a philosophy or having better sex. Opening the Dragon Gate is another good read in this genre. When you read these, make sure you keep your mind open but beware not to read any of these as literal history. Even if everything that they describe is theoretically possible, that doesn't mean it happened like that.

 

Two authors who have lots of books on how Taoism applies to everyday life and are constantly recommended around here are Deng Ming-Dao and Ni Hua-Ching.

 

As far as books, etc. from which to self-study actual practices, Spring Forest Qigong and anything (or everything) by B. K. Frantzis.

Edited by Creation

Share this post

Link to post
Share on other sites

secularfuture   

secularfuture
Posted
That's all for me on this thread.

I guess not...

 

You guys are right in that no one has the authority to judge another's path. But, when someone asks about where to start in the Taoist path, I find it irresponsible to infer that all one needs to do is read a book.

I never said that. I said, and I quote, "But if he can't find a teacher, he shouldn't let that discourage him from practice. It is possible to learn and practice Taoism without a teacher if you have the right training materials."

 

I'm not against teachers. I'm only against those who try to say that you can't accomplish anything without a teacher.

 

Books should be a supplementary tool.

In your opinion.

 

An armchair taoist is just that. If someone sits in an armchair reading books in isolation by definition that makes them an armchair taoist.

I don't sit in an arm chair when I read.

 

KAP is a perfect example of what I'm trying to say. Real learning takes effort. If you really wanted to know about KAP, you could very easily find out today. Put some effort into it. You are surrounded by KAP students on taobums...

Why do you refuse to give me a link and some pricing information on "KAP"?

 

But reading a book by Deng ming Dao or Bruce Frantzis does NOT in any way mean you are training with him any more than reading a medical book makes you a doctor.

I disagree. Tao of Letting Go: Meditation for Modern Living by Bruce Frantzis is as step by step as you can get. He literally walks you through the meditations. Ken Cohen does the same on his DVD/CD set.

 

Some of the books by deng ming dao and others are as much fiction as they are real. They are tools for the entertainment of the intellect to inspire further inquiry. They are not considered as scriptures or textbooks...

Really... :blink:

 

Who was your teacher, and how much did you pay for him/her?

 

Have you ever considered the fact that not everyone learns in the same way? Some of us like going at different paces (some faster, some slower), and would prefer studying in the comfort of our own home. Why does this bother you? Just because you couldn't learn anything without personal assistance doesn't mean others can't.

 

I challenge any of you to contact these authors and ask them if they would consider reading their books as a replacement for personal training... Go to any Taoist temple, monastery etc. and tell the the priest or master that it is not necessary to learn from a teacher... Please tell me what they tell you...

I'm sure some of them would suggest finding a teacher. I know Ken Cohen does in his series. But I highly doubt any of them would try to discourage a seeker from practice if they couldn't find a teacher, or chose not to use one. There are a lot of practices that you can do on your own. For one, you don't need a teacher to learn how to lay on your back, clear your mind, and focus on the present moment for 5 minutes. And you aren't going to break anything if you accidentally think about your dog or something.

 

A book cannot correct your mistakes.... That is what real learning is, having a teacher guide you and correct you. Only a living breathing teacher can do that.

It's very difficult to make "mistakes" with basic sitting, lying, and standing meditations that don't involve any physical moment.

 

Listen, my point was never to bag on people for reading books. I'm getting more upset about this than is necessary. I think it is fairly obvious to anyone that Taoism and taoist practices cannot be deeply experienced or understood without in depth training.

I disagree. Spring Forest Qigong is another group that offers excellent training multimedia. They're a bit pricey, though. Personally, I prefer the works of Bruce Frantzis.

 

And, while I enjoy books as much as anyone, no one can responsibly or believably say that books are an effective replacement for training with a qualified teacher.

Well, I can, and I just did.

 

My only point is that books are NOT a replacement for a real teacher...

I disagree. If you can't find a teacher, or would rather not work with one, you can achieve a lot through books and training multimedia.

Share this post

Link to post
Share on other sites
Go To Topic Listing General Discussion