Aetherous Posted November 22, 2009 Secularfuture wrote in another thread, What's the point in having good health and hot sex if your life is cluttered and meaningless? I ask: what's the point in practicing qigong and meditating if your life is meaningless? What gives meaning to life? Once you become enlightened, what then? Once you've taught everyone your secrets, and it's a common thing, when everyone is enlightened, then what will we do? When we master qigong, and it becomes normal for everyone to be healthy and move their qi around...then what is the purpose of our lives? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Edward M Posted November 22, 2009 Until you get there you wont know Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
secularfuture Posted November 22, 2009 Secularfuture wrote in another thread, I ask: what's the point in practicing qigong and meditating if your life is meaningless? I'm just a little frustrated with how a lot of Western Taoists focus mostly on the medical and sexual practices, and hardly ever make mention of the spiritual practices. Even when you come to this site you're hit with a huge "AUTHENTIC SEXUAL POWER" banner at the top of the page. Taoism is much deeper than that. What gives meaning to life? Once you become enlightened, what then? Once you've taught everyone your secrets, and it's a common thing, when everyone is enlightened, then what will we do? When we master qigong, and it becomes normal for everyone to be healthy and move their qi around...then what is the purpose of our lives? The answer to this can be found in nature. We should probably go with the natural flow of life, enjoy the good, and let go of the bad until we reunite with the Tao after death. Keep it simple. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
C T Posted November 22, 2009 (edited) Secularfuture wrote in another thread, I ask: what's the point in practicing qigong and meditating if your life is meaningless? What gives meaning to life? Once you become enlightened, what then? Hi there Scotty, I am really keen to hear your own views on the matter. What does the term "becoming enlightened" mean to you?Do you think that enlightenment is the pinnacle of one's quest, or there could be something more to it? Is it a goal, or a process, rather? Your thoughts? Thank you! Edited November 22, 2009 by CowTao Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pero Posted November 22, 2009 What gives meaning to life? That's easy. Death. Once you become enlightened, what then? Once you've taught everyone your secrets, and it's a common thing, when everyone is enlightened, then what will we do? Why does there always have to be something to do? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Desert Eagle Posted November 23, 2009 to eliminate suffering and defilements? to escape the cycle of birth and death? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky7Strikes Posted November 23, 2009 (edited) I think it's impossible for everyone to be enlightened. There are infinite number of beings in existence. So enlightening everyone is an infinite goal. And the process is ever blissful. But yes, other than that, everything is pretty meaningless. Edited November 23, 2009 by Lucky7Strikes Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
C T Posted November 23, 2009 So enlightening everyone is an infinite goal. And the process is ever blissful. High Five! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky7Strikes Posted November 23, 2009 High Five! HAHA YAY! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aetherous Posted November 23, 2009 I can't think of how to answer my own question... The point was to cut to the heart of the matter: what satisfies us? The exercise of imagining we're all enlightened was just to do away with all the spiritual BS, so we could see through it and think clearly about our lives. Before enlightenment, chop wood and carry water...yet we also enjoy things, and prefer things. I like having fun with friends, for instance...it brings meaning to my life to enjoy spending time with people... So after enlightenment, do the work and also...do what you prefer. A point in thinking of this is to consider it DURING our path, so that we don't forsake the things that really matter for things that don't. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hagar Posted November 23, 2009 Secularfuture wrote in another thread, I ask: what's the point in practicing qigong and meditating if your life is meaningless? What gives meaning to life? Once you become enlightened, what then? Once you've taught everyone your secrets, and it's a common thing, when everyone is enlightened, then what will we do? When we master qigong, and it becomes normal for everyone to be healthy and move their qi around...then what is the purpose of our lives? Ah! great question! There is no point to meditation. It should be an expression of our natural state. When we live out our lifespans in a natural way, free of illness we can start enjoying life as it is. And it is quite nice actually. Polar ice cap melting or not. (watch in HD) h Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TzuJanLi Posted November 23, 2009 Greetings.. There is only one issue, for me, that resonates as what the founders of Taoist thought might have been pointing to: Clarity. From which, our choices will then reflect our 'true nature', rather than the programmed reactions.. From my perspective, Clarity is the sole purpose of meditation.. Be well.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Unconditioned Posted November 23, 2009 Secularfuture wrote in another thread, I ask: what's the point in practicing qigong and meditating if your life is meaningless? What gives meaning to life? Once you become enlightened, what then? Once you've taught everyone your secrets, and it's a common thing, when everyone is enlightened, then what will we do? When we master qigong, and it becomes normal for everyone to be healthy and move their qi around...then what is the purpose of our lives? We'll eat, sleep, work, laugh, smile, face challenges, feel pain (but not suffer), we'll not avoid anything in our lives, we'll face everything head on as it is, we'll live, we'll love, we'll eventually shed this skin and after that, the unknown. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted November 23, 2009 We'll eat, sleep, work, laugh, smile, face challenges, feel pain (but not suffer), we'll not avoid anything in our lives, we'll face everything head on as it is, we'll live, we'll love, we'll eventually shed this skin and after that, the unknown. I am so glad you added: (but not suffer). Peace & Love! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sloppy Zhang Posted November 23, 2009 (edited) What's the point in having good health and hot sex if your life is cluttered and meaningless? What's the point in having a life full of order if you don't know what the point is...? There is a dangerous assumption here: that things inherently have a point. Sometimes I'm not sure if it really does. People do things because they "find" meaning in them.... but maybe they "create" that meaning. On top of that, there is this entire hierarchy of things..... order > sex, meaning in life > health. Since when? According to who? Who says if your life is in order? People look at my desk and see a cluttered mess, but for me it's in perfect order. All the pens I want are off to the right, my phone is to the left, papers I've been using recently are on top, papers I have yet to file away are under those, and reference books that I need are behind my computer. It all makes sense to me, then I have people coming to my desk and saying stuff like, "cleanliness is next to Godliness" then look off to my desk..... You know what I have to say to that? Fuck off! Seriously. Same with paranormal/psychic powers and stuff. People are like, "oh well those don't get you anywhere." Well what if your sole purpose is to get those abilities? Things are what they are. No more, no less. Everyone is so obsessed with attaching extra things to something. Someone has health. What's the point? HEALTH IS HEALTH. PERIOD. Hot steamy sex? IT'S JUST SEX. PERIOD. Psychic powers? JUST WHAT THEY ARE. All of these questions are based on a few assumptions that not everyone shares. Not everything needs to have some obvious point to it (though some can make the case that everything has a point even when you don't see it ) Edited November 23, 2009 by Sloppy Zhang Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Unconditioned Posted November 23, 2009 What's the point in having a life full of order if you don't know what the point is...? There is a dangerous assumption here: that things inherently have a point. Sometimes I'm not sure if it really does. People do things because they "find" meaning in them.... but maybe they "create" that meaning. On top of that, there is this entire hierarchy of things..... order > sex, meaning in life > health. Since when? According to who? Who says if your life is in order? People look at my desk and see a cluttered mess, but for me it's in perfect order. All the pens I want are off to the right, my phone is to the left, papers I've been using recently are on top, papers I have yet to file away are under those, and reference books that I need are behind my computer. It all makes sense to me, then I have people coming to my desk and saying stuff like, "cleanliness is next to Godliness" then look off to my desk..... You know what I have to say to that? Fuck off! Seriously. Same with paranormal/psychic powers and stuff. People are like, "oh well those don't get you anywhere." Well what if your sole purpose is to get those abilities? Things are what they are. No more, no less. Everyone is so obsessed with attaching extra things to something. Someone has health. What's the point? HEALTH IS HEALTH. PERIOD. Hot steamy sex? IT'S JUST SEX. PERIOD. Psychic powers? JUST WHAT THEY ARE. All of these questions are based on a few assumptions that not everyone shares. And they seem to have struck a nerve... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rain Posted November 23, 2009 (edited) one of the great lessons that comes with having kids is that you will be surpassed not only will they benefit from your resources but from your failure as well and on top they come with at least double times the potency of either parent Im normally very sceptical to comparison it being a fake tool but in this light.. if meditation and qigong can help each of us to eliminate bad karma.. and speed up this positive spiraling what's meaningless? Edited November 23, 2009 by rain Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted November 23, 2009 Things are what they are. No more, no less. Everyone is so obsessed with attaching extra things to something. Someone has health. What's the point? HEALTH IS HEALTH. PERIOD. Hot steamy sex? IT'S JUST SEX. PERIOD. Psychic powers? JUST WHAT THEY ARE. I think this is the point (sorry, I had to say it that way) of Taoist meditation and wu wei. To be able to see things as they truely are, without adding anything to them nor removing anything from them. I personally think that when we see things as they truely are we will also see meaning in every thing we view and we will see that there is a purpose for everything. (No, I will not place any value judgement on anything at this time.) Peace & Love! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aetherous Posted November 23, 2009 Sloppy Zhang, What do you enjoy in life? Looking up at the stars...having a cup of tea...laughing with friends...hot steamy sex with Megan Fox...the answer can be anything! But it's not an option to say "life is meaningless", because it's not an honest answer. You are still philosophizing too much, and not coming to terms with your own real life situation. Why do you get out of bed in the morning, if everything is meaningless? If it's truly meaningless, then stay in bed for the rest of your life doing nothing until you die. What difference does it make? If you don't like that option, that means there is some meaning you've given to your life...a reason for getting up! What is that? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Non Posted November 23, 2009 Secularfuture wrote in another thread, I ask: what's the point in practicing qigong and meditating if your life is meaningless? What gives meaning to life? Once you become enlightened, what then? Once you've taught everyone your secrets, and it's a common thing, when everyone is enlightened, then what will we do? When we master qigong, and it becomes normal for everyone to be healthy and move their qi around...then what is the purpose of our lives? I always thought clutterdness and meaninglessness was unhealthy Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ralis Posted November 23, 2009 (edited) I want to reincarnate in the Star Trek or Star Wars universe. That would be incredible! Also I want to be a better guitar player than John McLaughlin! Although, that is probably pointless in this lifetime. McLaughlin is a genius! Edited November 23, 2009 by ralis Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Taomeow Posted November 23, 2009 "The meaning of life" is a linguistic construct. Some languages are better equipped to fabricate such artificial constructs than others. To create such a construct, one has to place "meaning" and "life" in such a grammatical relation to each other that one becomes a separable attribute of the other. These separating/fragmenting grammatical attributions work well when we are dealing with objects that have shape in space (i.e. are more or less "solid" from the POV of direct human perception, not on any philosophical or quantum level but on the level of direct and immediate human senses). These grammatical structures help us separate solid objects into distinct "sub-objects," parts, pieces that can be viewed as different from each other though embedded within the same shape. E.g., "the yolk of the egg," "the pit of the cherry," the back of the chair," "the claws of the cat." This works well with objects that have shape in space. Now when we apply this grammatical construction to processes that don't have shape in space -- life, love, faith, anger, orgasm, intelligence, wisdom, stupidity, terrorism, etc. -- we create a false object in order to apply the imaginary cut-off of the "of" to its imaginary boundaries separating it from its imaginary something else -- e.g. "meaning." "The meaning of life" would be possible the way "the pit of the cherry" is possible if "meaning" was a separate object embedded in another object, "life." Then we could use the imaginary knife of the "of" (or the spoon, as the spoon taoists would prefer) to cut one off from the other, or scoop one out of the other, as the case may be. This is only possible due to peculiarities of Indo-European languages whose grammar does not prevent handling a process that has no shape as an object that does. But just because this is something that's happening in a language doesn't mean it can be happening anywhere else. In actuality, it can't. The grammar of objectifying processes lies. No need to even consider such constructs, really, because they express nothing in particular, they express a figment of grammatically facilitated unreality. Neither "life" nor "meaning" are objects with one embedded into the other. When we present them as such via a grammatical relationship expressed in "the meaning of life" combo, we are pretending they are, and then split hairs about something that doesn't even exist?.. No need, really. Life and meaning are never in the "of" relationship anymore than "the claws of the egg" or "the cherry of hair." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
C T Posted November 23, 2009 "The meaning of life" is a linguistic construct. Some languages are better equipped to fabricate such artificial constructs than others. To create such a construct, one has to place "meaning" and "life" in such a grammatical relation to each other that one becomes a separable attribute of the other. These separating/fragmenting grammatical attributions work well when we are dealing with objects that have shape in space (i.e. are more or less "solid" from the POV of direct human perception, not on any philosophical or quantum level but on the level of direct and immediate human senses). These grammatical structures help us separate solid objects into distinct "sub-objects," parts, pieces that can be viewed as different from each other though embedded within the same shape. E.g., "the yolk of the egg," "the pit of the cherry," the back of the chair," "the claws of the cat." This works well with objects that have shape in space. Now when we apply this grammatical construction to processes that don't have shape in space -- life, love, faith, anger, orgasm, intelligence, wisdom, stupidity, terrorism, etc. -- we create a false object in order to apply the imaginary cut-off of the "of" to its imaginary boundaries separating it from its imaginary something else -- e.g. "meaning." "The meaning of life" would be possible the way "the pit of the cherry" is possible if "meaning" was a separate object embedded in another object, "life." Then we could use the imaginary knife of the "of" (or the spoon, as the spoon taoists would prefer) to cut one off from the other, or scoop one out of the other, as the case may be. This is only possible due to peculiarities of Indo-European languages whose grammar does not prevent handling a process that has no shape as an object that does. But just because this is something that's happening in a language doesn't mean it can be happening anywhere else. In actuality, it can't. The grammar of objectifying processes lies. No need to even consider such constructs, really, because they express nothing in particular, they express a figment of grammatically facilitated unreality. Neither "life" nor "meaning" are objects with one embedded into the other. When we present them as such via a grammatical relationship expressed in "the meaning of life" combo, we are pretending they are, and then split hairs about something that doesn't even exist?.. No need, really. Life and meaning are never in the "of" relationship anymore than "the claws of the egg" or "the cherry of hair." Taomeow.. this post is not a 'knife', or even a 'spoon' - its a 'scalpel'! Excellent! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted November 23, 2009 McLaughlin is a genius! Amen! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
effilang Posted November 23, 2009 I'm just a little frustrated with how a lot of Western Taoists focus mostly on the medical and sexual practices, and hardly ever make mention of the spiritual practices. Even when you come to this site you're hit with a huge "AUTHENTIC SEXUAL POWER" banner at the top of the page. Taoism is much deeper than that. The answer to this can be found in nature. We should probably go with the natural flow of life, enjoy the good, and let go of the bad until we reunite with the Tao after death. Keep it simple. I've never thought about the sexual benefits of practicing Taoism, but i guess i'm from Europe. What do i know eh? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
