Purge. Erase. Delete.

[Kali Yuga]

Sometimes I think that the more I try to learn, the less I know, and i'm sure at some point most of you know what I mean..

 

It's just that reading manuals and guides and discussions on energy this and energy that don't seem to help, you know? Everyone's like, shen conversion this, semen retention that ,full lotus this, chakra orgasm that.. And a bunch of other stuff that I don't really know lol and I'm stuck trying to read and study full-body diagrams on energy pathways and etc.

 

I just find it funny that we have to rely on diagrams on things like this if it is our own bodies wer'e practicing with, I mean its OUR bodies right, shouldn't we be able to know about energy inside it from ourselves? From my own point of view, talking about energy and its pathways and examining diagrams when one hasn't internally "got" what its all about, is mental masturbation.

 

I feel that all these diagrams and such should come as result from one's own insight and awareness into ones self. Because from experience talking without having the experience doesn't really help.

 

Thats why I am now officially quitting all this babble regarding this or that or doing this or doing that..

 

It might be a rudimentary meditation but I am quitting all of the other kinds except this one. I will just sit and cultivate awareness in my body and equanimity in heart and mind... I'll just sit there. And feel my body. If anything extraordinary happens, then good. If not, well that my gamble. This will be my one and only meditation from now indefinitely.

 

And screw all this talk about retention. You guys can sit and talk for days but never come to agreement on it. Thats why instead of listening to you guys talk about it I will just experiment on my energy levels and sexual activity to see for myself. More arguments=mind garbage for the empty mind to have to clear out. Less talk more practice.

 

 

 

And oh yes drewhempel if you must know I DO sit in full-lotus, usually for about an hour or two. I don't know if its really the most advanced posture you claim it is but for me its just the most solid and comfortable seat for me, better than siddhasana for stability IMO. It just helps me go deeper quickly but I don't know if its the end game for sitting. I think that it's the lotus in combination with gyan-mudra in each hand that generates the focus..

 

On a note I tried doing MCO before but strangely the energy won't follow a straight elliptical path up and down. I get the feeling that my energy wants to twirl around up my head and down and twirl around my legs rather than follow the straight up-down and around path of MCO. Its very disorienting but it just feels easier that way. It feels like floating in dead-space on a kind of wobbling tilted axis with very fast revolution time

 

Usually I can feel sparkly warm energy in my body after a session of kalimasada but it just amazes me how hard one must work to cultivate and feel it in daily life, especially to come to a more "scientific" understanding of it.

[Capital]

This is my advice for spontaneous meditation. It's led me to much joy, and I've had no teacher.

 

Just lay down, sit down, or stand up. Then relax as much as you possibly can. Feel the stillness of your body. Let that be the only goal.

 

Pay close attention, and you'll feel the slightest sensation of movement start out of that stillness. Slowly and relaxed, follow the movement. You'll feel what to do, because it will already be happening.

 

Continue to do this, with every part of your body. Some of it will be symmetrical; some of it will happen all at once; other movements will be individual.

 

Finally you'll return to stillness. Whatever position you end up in, keep it. If it hurts a bit, you'll know if it's a bad or good kind of hurt. You'll know if you should just bear it or not, because if it's the bad kind of hurt, you'll naturally leave the position without thinking about it.

 

I think that's the main key: don't think.

 

Once you're in the proper position, that's the time to observe what you feel in your body.

Edited November 24, 2009 by Capital

[Ohm-Nei]

Do you think this happens when people are WANTING to sleep but something is keeping them up?

Maybe it's not the mental part, but the feeling of circulation in your body that makes you feel like you should keep moving around and trying different positions.

 

Just saying, maybe there's a connection.

[Marblehead]

Sometimes I think that the more I try to learn, the less I know, and i'm sure at some point most of you know what I mean..

 

Hi Kali,

 

I wouldn't normally get involved in a thread of this nature but I wanted to speak to this initial comment of yours.

 

I agree, oftentime we go into information overload. There is so much info to be had concerning your subject and regretfully nearly every bit of info is contradictory to other bits of info so that in the end many seekers end up more confused than they were when they started.

 

I think it is understood by most here that I do not adhere to any particular 'practice'. Yes, most aspects of my life are regimented (I have my way of doing things) but to the spiritual aspects of life I feel that this is so personal that one must find 'their own way'.

 

What is good for one person may be totally useless for another.

 

So yes, we go through the learning phases of our life. Anything that is not productive (is useless) we should cast away as soon as possible. In the end we hold to only those concepts or methods (practices) that produce positive results for 'us'.

 

I will never talk down (at least I try to not do so) any of the discussions of practices presented here because one can never know what little piece of info presented here is the missing piece that someone needed in order to begin their journey.

 

But again, I stress that if something is not working for any one of us we should cast that aside as being useless to 'us' even though it may be very useful to someone else.

 

Peace & Love!

[Owledge]

@Kali Yuga

Have you ever considered that all the 'babble' served the important purpose of bringing you to your current conclusions? You sound like you think it was all useless, but where would you be today without all that? Many people probably would never have gotten into spirituality without this 'babble'.

As I occasionally say: To get from A to B, you have to start at A.

Or like others say it: Accept the current conditions, don't reject/hate them. Don't try to escape them.

 

It's only an impression I get, but many people who make good progress on the way towards enlightenment begin to downplay everything that was before. Maybe this is a kind of trap of the ego/mind/intellect.

[doc benway]

Sometimes I think that the more I try to learn, the less I know, and i'm sure at some point most of you know what I mean..

 

It's just that reading manuals and guides and discussions on energy this and energy that don't seem to help, you know? Everyone's like, shen conversion this, semen retention that ,full lotus this, chakra orgasm that.. And a bunch of other stuff that I don't really know lol and I'm stuck trying to read and study full-body diagrams on energy pathways and etc.

 

I just find it funny that we have to rely on diagrams on things like this if it is our own bodies wer'e practicing with, I mean its OUR bodies right, shouldn't we be able to know about energy inside it from ourselves? From my own point of view, talking about energy and its pathways and examining diagrams when one hasn't internally "got" what its all about, is mental masturbation.

 

I feel that all these diagrams and such should come as result from one's own insight and awareness into ones self. Because from experience talking without having the experience doesn't really help.

 

Thats why I am now officially quitting all this babble regarding this or that or doing this or doing that..

 

It might be a rudimentary meditation but I am quitting all of the other kinds except this one. I will just sit and cultivate awareness in my body and equanimity in heart and mind... I'll just sit there. And feel my body. If anything extraordinary happens, then good. If not, well that my gamble. This will be my one and only meditation from now indefinitely.

 

And screw all this talk about retention. You guys can sit and talk for days but never come to agreement on it. Thats why instead of listening to you guys talk about it I will just experiment on my energy levels and sexual activity to see for myself. More arguments=mind garbage for the empty mind to have to clear out. Less talk more practice.

And oh yes drewhempel if you must know I DO sit in full-lotus, usually for about an hour or two. I don't know if its really the most advanced posture you claim it is but for me its just the most solid and comfortable seat for me, better than siddhasana for stability IMO. It just helps me go deeper quickly but I don't know if its the end game for sitting. I think that it's the lotus in combination with gyan-mudra in each hand that generates the focus..

 

On a note I tried doing MCO before but strangely the energy won't follow a straight elliptical path up and down. I get the feeling that my energy wants to twirl around up my head and down and twirl around my legs rather than follow the straight up-down and around path of MCO. Its very disorienting but it just feels easier that way. It feels like floating in dead-space on a kind of wobbling tilted axis with very fast revolution time

 

Usually I can feel sparkly warm energy in my body after a session of kalimasada but it just amazes me how hard one must work to cultivate and feel it in daily life, especially to come to a more "scientific" understanding of it.

 

I appreciate the honesty of this post. I think this is a healthy sign. It's fine to follow the guidance of the "authorities" to a point. It's even more important to recognize exactly what you are saying - no one knows any more than you do. The thing about authority is that it only exists in so far as you choose to accept it.

I think you might enjoy the work of one of my favorite authors - Jiddu Krishnamurti.

The book To Be Human is a very good starting place. His basic premise is that there are no methods or authorities - one must do the work on one's own ultimately.

 

 

@Kali Yuga

Have you ever considered that all the 'babble' served the important purpose of bringing you to your current conclusions? You sound like you think it was all useless, but where would you be today without all that? Many people probably would never have gotten into spirituality without this 'babble'.

As I occasionally say: To get from A to B, you have to start at A.

Or like others say it: Accept the current conditions, don't reject/hate them. Don't try to escape them.

 

It's only an impression I get, but many people who make good progress on the way towards enlightenment begin to downplay everything that was before. Maybe this is a kind of trap of the ego/mind/intellect.

I think this is a great point that is usually overlooked. By the time someone reaches the point of being able to let go of the crutches and authorities, they have invariably depended on them to some degree for some period of time. Would they have reached those same conclusions without that preparation?

I don't know the answer but it begs asking.

[Kali Yuga]

Hi Kali,

 

I wouldn't normally get involved in a thread of this nature but I wanted to speak to this initial comment of yours.

 

I agree, oftentime we go into information overload. There is so much info to be had concerning your subject and regretfully nearly every bit of info is contradictory to other bits of info so that in the end many seekers end up more confused than they were when they started.

 

I think it is understood by most here that I do not adhere to any particular 'practice'. Yes, most aspects of my life are regimented (I have my way of doing things) but to the spiritual aspects of life I feel that this is so personal that one must find 'their own way'.

 

 

I appreciate the honesty of this post. I think this is a healthy sign. It's fine to follow the guidance of the "authorities" to a point. It's even more important to recognize exactly what you are saying - no one knows any more than you do. The thing about authority is that it only exists in so far as you choose to accept it.

I think you might enjoy the work of one of my favorite authors - Jiddu Krishnamurti.

The book To Be Human is a very good starting place. His basic premise is that there are no methods or authorities - one must do the work on one's own ultimately.

I think this is a great point that is usually overlooked. By the time someone reaches the point of being able to let go of the crutches and authorities, they have invariably depended on them to some degree for some period of time. Would they have reached those same conclusions without that preparation?

I don't know the answer but it begs asking.

 

 

Yeah. You know, the strangest thing is I'v been on this path for awhile but I'm starting to realize that I find myself back at the beginning.

 

I feel that maybe everyone goes through this at some point or stage. A true seeker makes his quest his whole life; he constantly obsesses over it and absorbs any and all things he can learn. But he gets to the point where he must realize that he cannot find all knowledge outside himself - through other people, books, talking etc.

 

It's like a so called guru I know. He talk and talks and talks.. And you listen and recieve great insight. But then he keeps on talking and talking... and you listen but you feel nothing. And he continues talking and talking and talking.. and you begin to resent him. Greatly. The guests buy him food and crowd all over him and worship him. And then you start to realize that he is no real guru at all. The only guru he is is his mouth, not his inner being.

 

There comes a point on the spiritual path where one ultimately becomes alone - more alone than he ever is in his entire life. And I guess that point is the one where he begins to realize that everything taught to him is empty - except the things that he finds within himself. ...You get to the point where all the books and tapes and audio that helped you become loathsome to you and the only alternative now is to seek within- not without.

 

Of course to put it into proper perspective he would never reach this point without his prior knowledge seeking. But there are new beginnings, even within a beginning.

 

Wouldn't you agree? Just a few thoughts. lol

[Marblehead]

 

Wouldn't you agree? Just a few thoughts. lol

 

Yep.

 

(I can't think of anything more to say at the moment.)

 

Peace & Love!

[doc benway]

Yeah. You know, the strangest thing is I'v been on this path for awhile but I'm starting to realize that I find myself back at the beginning.

 

I feel that maybe everyone goes through this at some point or stage. A true seeker makes his quest his whole life; he constantly obsesses over it and absorbs any and all things he can learn. But he gets to the point where he must realize that he cannot find all knowledge outside himself - through other people, books, talking etc.

 

It's like a so called guru I know. He talk and talks and talks.. And you listen and recieve great insight. But then he keeps on talking and talking... and you listen but you feel nothing. And he continues talking and talking and talking.. and you begin to resent him. Greatly. The guests buy him food and crowd all over him and worship him. And then you start to realize that he is no real guru at all. The only guru he is is his mouth, not his inner being.

 

There comes a point on the spiritual path where one ultimately becomes alone - more alone than he ever is in his entire life. And I guess that point is the one where he begins to realize that everything taught to him is empty - except the things that he finds within himself. ...You get to the point where all the books and tapes and audio that helped you become loathsome to you and the only alternative now is to seek within- not without.

 

Of course to put it into proper perspective he would never reach this point without his prior knowledge seeking. But there are new beginnings, even within a beginning.

 

Wouldn't you agree? Just a few thoughts. lol

I agree.

You seem to have a way of communicating where you are and what you feel very nicely.

Now that you feel you can only find answers inside yourself, how to go about looking there?

I think that's the next step.

[C T]

"We shall not cease from exploration.

And the end of all our exploring

will be to arrive where we started

and know the place for the first time." - T. S. Elliot

 

Just want to share a little passage here that i think is quite relevant to this topic. Its taken from Alistair Shearer's

translation of the "Yoga Sutras" :

 

"The quest for the Self has enthralled mankind since the dawning of desire. Ancient myths of every culture tell the same story of our search for wholeness. As the mind explores its own depths, it uncovers archetypal images that sustain and guide the journey inward. These are the signposts on the old road home, half-remembered from long ago. Each society hands down its stories of the great heroes who have made the journey before us as reminders and examples to those who follow.

 

In Mesopotamia, the king of Erech, Gilgamesh, leaves his city and sets forth to find the plant of immortality 'Never Grow Old' that sprouts at the bottom of the Cosmic Sea. In ancient Greece, the nobly born Odysseus seeks his island home of Ithaca, while Jason sets sail on the search for the Golden Fleece. And in the very different setting of Arthurian England, the Knights of the Round Table ride out on that most sacred of missions, the quest for the Holy Grail.

 

Though the details of the myths differ with time and place, their pattern is the same. First comes the initial challenge, the call to a fuller life, the promise of a new state of Being. If the hero has the courage to accept the challenge, with all its awesome implications of metamorphosis, he embarks on the crossing of the initiatory threshold that marks the beginning of the journey. This death and rebirth will have to be repeated many times before the quest is accomplished, for there are trials and dangers to be encountered along the way, and every transformation suffered is a dying to the old and a resurrection into the new.

 

Such traveling requires fortitude and perseverance. The decisions to be taken are not easy -- the unwary are soon tranquilized by triviality, the songs of the sirens is alluring, and for every Galahad there are countless Launcelots.

 

But the deserving seekers are sustained by unseen help, those hidden agencies of fairy tale and legend. For the dedicated there will in time come the final achievement: the apotheosis. Now the traveler can return, transfigured, to live as an example and inspiration to all those yet to complete the quest.

 

These returned heroes are the great teachers, the seers, saints and prophets, the spiritual leaders of mankind. Complete in themselves and reintegrated with the cosmos of which they are now a conscious instrument, they have reached the goal of yoga."

[hagar]

 

There comes a point on the spiritual path where one ultimately becomes alone - more alone than he ever is in his entire life. And I guess that point is the one where he begins to realize that everything taught to him is empty - except the things that he finds within himself. ...You get to the point where all the books and tapes and audio that helped you become loathsome to you and the only alternative now is to seek within- not without.

 

 

Ah, finally. This is the true beginning. Scares the shit out of me. Its not like we're alone-at-home-on-Christmas eve-alone. Its touching on the real stuff. Existentially.

 

But it talks back, in a sense.

 

h

[~jK~]

Sometimes I think that the more I try to learn, the less I know, and i'm sure at some point most of you know what I mean..

 

It's just that reading manuals and guides and discussions on energy this and energy that don't seem to help, you know? Everyone's like, shen conversion this, semen retention that ,full lotus this, chakra orgasm that.. And a bunch of other stuff that I don't really know lol and I'm stuck trying to read and study full-body diagrams on energy pathways and etc.

 

Usually I can feel sparkly warm energy in my body after a session of kalimasada but it just amazes me how hard one must work to cultivate and feel it in daily life, especially to come to a more "scientific" understanding of it.

 

It seems, if you have patience,

You are ready to begin on the path.

Physical preperation is one of the keys

Mentaly, It is not about what you think

For knowledge to come: make room for it.

 

Mornings, The Kundalini,

Evenings, The Savasana.

 

Daily, enjoy life, ride a bike to a nice place, Meditate.

Temples are built in the mountains with many park benches

Here are the keys that you will need for the Savasana - the rest is mainly toys.

 

http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?showtopic=11802

 

Some eye candy on meditation:

http://www.dailymotion.pl/video/x1da00_spi...lity-pt2_people

http://www.dailymotion.pl/video/x1da8v_spi...-pt3_shortfilms

http://www.dailymotion.pl/video/x1dae5_spi...ty-pt4_creation

http://www.dailymotion.pl/video/x1daj2_spi...eality-pt5_blog

http://www.dailymotion.pl/video/x1danq_spi...eality-pt6_news

http://www.dailymotion.pl/video/x1dapv_spi...lity-pt7_people

http://www.dailymotion.pl/video/x1dijt_spi...lity-pt8_school

 

Edited November 26, 2009 by ~jK~

[DalTheJigsaw123]

Sometimes I think that the more I try to learn, the less I know, and i'm sure at some point most of you know what I mean..

 

It's just that reading manuals and guides and discussions on energy this and energy that don't seem to help, you know? Everyone's like, shen conversion this, semen retention that ,full lotus this, chakra orgasm that.. And a bunch of other stuff that I don't really know lol and I'm stuck trying to read and study full-body diagrams on energy pathways and etc.

 

I just find it funny that we have to rely on diagrams on things like this if it is our own bodies wer'e practicing with, I mean its OUR bodies right, shouldn't we be able to know about energy inside it from ourselves? From my own point of view, talking about energy and its pathways and examining diagrams when one hasn't internally "got" what its all about, is mental masturbation.

 

I feel that all these diagrams and such should come as result from one's own insight and awareness into ones self. Because from experience talking without having the experience doesn't really help.

 

Thats why I am now officially quitting all this babble regarding this or that or doing this or doing that..

 

It might be a rudimentary meditation but I am quitting all of the other kinds except this one. I will just sit and cultivate awareness in my body and equanimity in heart and mind... I'll just sit there. And feel my body. If anything extraordinary happens, then good. If not, well that my gamble. This will be my one and only meditation from now indefinitely.

 

And screw all this talk about retention. You guys can sit and talk for days but never come to agreement on it. Thats why instead of listening to you guys talk about it I will just experiment on my energy levels and sexual activity to see for myself. More arguments=mind garbage for the empty mind to have to clear out. Less talk more practice.

And oh yes drewhempel if you must know I DO sit in full-lotus, usually for about an hour or two. I don't know if its really the most advanced posture you claim it is but for me its just the most solid and comfortable seat for me, better than siddhasana for stability IMO. It just helps me go deeper quickly but I don't know if its the end game for sitting. I think that it's the lotus in combination with gyan-mudra in each hand that generates the focus..

 

On a note I tried doing MCO before but strangely the energy won't follow a straight elliptical path up and down. I get the feeling that my energy wants to twirl around up my head and down and twirl around my legs rather than follow the straight up-down and around path of MCO. Its very disorienting but it just feels easier that way. It feels like floating in dead-space on a kind of wobbling tilted axis with very fast revolution time

 

Usually I can feel sparkly warm energy in my body after a session of kalimasada but it just amazes me how hard one must work to cultivate and feel it in daily life, especially to come to a more "scientific" understanding of it.

 

 

Totally know what you mean.