What is so "special" about full lotus?

[Mark Foote]

Just got up from 35 minutes, which was all the pretzel my afternoon belly wanted to do. 

 

I think the main thing about sitting the lotus is, when did you start.  The guy who told me to take my time with the lotus was sitting the pose very early 'cause his father was a zen teacher in Japan--Kobun and his brothers were wrestling in the lotus when he was 7.  I know he demonstrated getting into the pose without using his hands at least once.

 

Ok, I'm never gonna be that flexible, I'm pretty sure, but I've learned a lot.  Not a lot different from practicing the standing martial arts with the knees bent, I'm guessing. 

 

I heard somewhere that the only martial arts that are useful in the cage are the contact martial arts, principally boxing, judo, and jiu-jitsu (I guess Brazilian jiu-jitsu has more contact than the kind I studied for six months back in 1967).

 

There's a video out there of some poor Aikido black belt instructor who took on a boxer.  They stopped the fight after several punches in the face and head, delivered by the boxer.

 

I am still inspired by Cheng Man-ching, and Bruce Lee made us all think anything's possible, but if it doesn't deliver some kind of happiness I'm afraid I can't get myself to do it.   So far the lotus does that, but my practice is better on an empty stomach (first thing in the morning or before I retire in the evening).

I like seeing people's pictures, here's yours truly:

 

 

 

 

[ion]

I will say that I do not consider anything you can find on the internet on multiple websites/discussion boards to be truly esoteric by the strict and traditional definition. "Special interest" maybe, but esoteric?

 

And I still stand by my conviction that those who know the Tao well enough to stick by it practice things that "make" them humble, not caught  in self, and do not make assertions (especially) like "they're wankers, I know what's best".

 

People who need to do all that energy work only need to do so because they do not "know the Tao well enough to stick by it" &  "practice things that "make" them humble, not caught  in self, and do not make assertions (especially) like "they're wankers, I know what's best".

 

When the Dao is practiced asa way of life not only are some f the fruits in what I listed above, but some other of the fruits is that your energy work is done in the non-doing of what I listed above.

 

To everything and everyone else; WOW!

 

I'm done rationalizing my response to star jumpers claim, seriously.

[Mark Foote]

I think it can be hard to take a forum site like this seriously.  I do, because it's been a big help to me, and there are people here who have contributed a lot to my understanding.  Maybe some of us haven't had that experience.

 

I just figure those who use a word like "wankers" are from somewhere in the commonwealth, and can't be held responsible for their provenciality (just kidding!).

 

As has been said, life is much too important to take seriously...

Edited May 25, 2018 by Mark Foote

[Mudfoot]

4 hours ago, Starjumper said:

 

Ah the Chan Mudra, I didn't know it had a name.  After researching it I discovered there are two ways to do it, and it explains the feeling of suffocation when the mouth is closed.  The standard way is with right index finger in right nostril and left in left, but the secret esoteric way is with left finger in right nostril and right in left.  One MUST be sitting full lotus to make it effective.  The cross over technique makes your energy run backwards and result in instant oldfartdom and then snuffing it.  (Not like snorting snuff)  Excellent for those Buddhists who are just waiting for the funeral pyre ... to end their suffering ... I mean the suffering of the 'self', not them.

That is the meaning of the mudra in the hindu tradition on Bali. It stands for alternate nostril breathing. 

 

The author that wrote that also mentioned she felt that the Balinese priests made fun of her, so.... 

[Starjumper]

8 hours ago, Mudfoot said:

That is the meaning of the mudra in the hindu tradition on Bali. It stands for alternate nostril breathing. 

 

The author that wrote that also mentioned she felt that the Balinese priests made fun of her, so.... 

 

So there's a chi kung method which clears both nostrils ... and the lungs and the sinuses ... but it's esoteric,  Ion would not approve.

[Mudfoot]

And then there is the super secret Shaolin explanation, which is now more esoteric since the above explanation is made public. 

 

But I cannot tell you since the wrath of the ancestors would be upon us. 

[rideforever]

I would strongly guard against full lotus.  Strongly.

Truth be told it is better simply to sit in any comfortable posture which allows your belly to be free and your back straight for an hour.

Perfect pose is pretty good and generally comfortable, personally I sit Burmese with my back against my bed, and can meditate quite well in any posture, sometimes half twisted in bed on Sunday morning at 5am, my body doesn't move but I begin.

 

Yes there may be modest energy benefits in full lotus, but that is a minor point compared to the violent nature of the pose and the violent nature of the mind that thinks realisation is a kind of self-torture .... hey it works when I go to my office job, right ?   Maybe you can continue with the shaving of the head, sleeping in a wooden box and flailing of the back with a whip, and other religious masochistic tendencies.

 

Nope it's all wrong.   Please just relax and be kind, it's only you inside that you are looking for.

Similarly with mudras, they are of only tiny tiny help.   You will never realise with these gimics.   
Where is your heart ? 
Where is your soul ? 
Where is your calmness ? 
Where is your trust ?

 

If these things are in the right place then the energy of reality will light you up like the Sun.
You have only to ask with a good heart.
Sit down with your dog by the fire and relax, let go and let go and let go.

It's relatively easy to destroy your knees with full lotus, in deep meditation you just hear one of your knees pop, as the meniscus tendons or ligaments buckle and then your gait is never the same again.  Sometimes the damage means you cannot cross your legs again.
Perfect pose (where you slip the front part of one foot between the calf-thigh of the opposite) sitting with a cushion, is very stable and comfortable and allows for good blood flow into the legs.
Oh, and the idea that you just grin and bear it and one day it will improve ... this is absolutely the wrong approach.  The only thing that will improve is your repression of the pain.
The posture is there only to facilitate your inner state, stable, calm, easy breathing, spine supported, far as I know taoist masters often sat on a seat with feet on the ground no crossing of legs and then stood up and did standing meditation, then maybe lying meditation.  

Edited July 21, 2018 by rideforever

[Mark Foote]

I continue to sit the 40 in the lotus, at least once a day, in spite of the extent of the stretch that I find myself in past 35.  I'm looking for the activity of the sitting to be generated involuntarily out of the stretch of ligaments, in reciprocity for the most part, and I accept that the stretch that's involved is going to develop strength that has to do with balance that I may not have had before.  That means sometimes the stretch is a lot, for a little bit of activity!

 

Balance is going to open the ability to feel, through alignment of the spine and ease in the exits of the nerves from within the spine, so there's an evolution of stretch and activity, alignment and the ability to feel.

 

Ligaments can generate activity in muscles to relieve the stretch of ligaments, and when the ligaments are in pairs on opposite sides of the body, relief of the stretch in ligaments on one side can develop stretch in the ligaments on the other side.  The stretch and activity can bounce back and forth from one side to another, in a subtle way.  That's what I mean by reciprocity, and the whole thing can be involuntary.

 

I think of Dennis Merzel, who says he started out in half-lotus, then sat for a long time in full lotus, and now is sitting Burmese.  I admire the way he has figured out what works for him and been willing to change.

 

It's true that there are folks out there who damaged their knees with the lotus, presumably trying to force the activity of posture instead of allowing it to develop through the stretch of the bands and the sheets.  If it's not possible to find a stretch, and there's only pain, there's no point in continuing in any given posture as far as I'm concerned.