Taoist Philosophy

[Marblehead]

Gentleness is the function of Tao.

 

Reversion is the action of Tao;

Weakness is the method of Tao.

 

 

Reversion Is The Action Of Tao

 

All things being equal, how can one say which is long and which is short? Tao is without beginning, without end. The material things are born and die, and no credit is taken for their development. Emptiness and fullness alternate, and their relations are not fixed. Past years cannot be recalled; time cannot be arrested. The succession of growth and decay, of increase and decrease, goes in a cycle, each end becoming a new beginning. In this sense only may we discuss the ways of truth and the principles of the Universe. The life of things passes by like a rushing, galloping horse, changing at every turn, at every hour. What should one do, or what should one not do? Let the cycle of changes go on by themselves!

[TzuJanLi]

Greetings..

 

Hi Marblehead: It's rare that i don't resonate with your perspectives, but.. i just don't sense Tao as having qualities like, 'function, action, method'.. Tao is not confined by our interpretations of, 'gentleness, reversion, weakness'.. Tao is as much harsh as gentle, as much aggressive as reversionary, as much strong as weak, and.. it makes no distinctions...

 

Be well..

[Marblehead]

Greetings..

 

Hi Marblehead: It's rare that i don't resonate with your perspectives, but.. i just don't sense Tao as having qualities like, 'function, action, method'.. Tao is not confined by our interpretations of, 'gentleness, reversion, weakness'.. Tao is as much harsh as gentle, as much aggressive as reversionary, as much strong as weak, and.. it makes no distinctions...

 

Be well..

 

I don't disagree with you. We are getting near the end of the chapters speaking to "Tao" and these last few chapters may not be all that significant but they are passages fro Lao Tzu and Chuang Tzu that needed to be included.

 

I, personally, would never use the word 'weakness' and would rarely use the word 'gentleness' but I am not presenting any of my personal thoughts and opinions here - only the words of the translators of the TTC and Chuang Tzu.

 

Peasonally, I have always replaced the word 'weakness' with 'flexibility'. And then, it is not telling the full truth if one speaks only of Tao's gentleness without speaking of its harshness.

 

And again, it is always an error if we speak only of one aspect of a duality because we are leaving out the other half of the truth.

 

There are only three more chapters dealing with Tao then we start talking about Te and I think that these chapters will be much more fun and interesting.

 

Peace & Love!

[TianhuaQigong]

are those copied from <Tao De Jing>.

in Chapter 17 of < Tao De Jing > may talking about how to be a king, of how to leader in group persons,

 

http://www.sumso.com/dkblog/handbook/ddj.htm#_ddjly

Edited November 29, 2009 by TianhuaQigong

[Marblehead]

are those copied from <Tao De Jing>.

in Chapter 17 of < Tao De Jing > may talking about how to be a king, of how to leader in group persons,

 

http://www.sumso.com/dkblog/handbook/ddj.htm#_ddjly

 

Hi Tian,

 

Thanks for the link. Regretfully I do not read Chinese.

 

What I am presenting is combined from various translations. All the chapters I present are in the format: first an excerpt from Lao Tzu then, if there is any, followed by Chuang Tzu's comments on the concept (and translator's comments on occasion in parenthesis).

 

I don't know for sure but of the three lines of this chapter from Lao Tzu I think the second and third are from Lin Yutang or maybe Robert Henricks but I'm not sure of the first line.

 

When I put this project together it just seemed that the three concepts (function, action, method) belonged together.

 

The lines are from the Tao Te Ching, Chapter 40.

 

Peace & Love!

Edited November 29, 2009 by Marblehead

[fiveelementtao]

Actually from a IMA perspective this a perfect analogy. The first thing I was ever taught was "Strength is No Strength."

 

Gentleness is the function of Tao.

Reversion is the action of Tao;

Weakness is the method of Tao.

 

IME, Tao has to be experienced physically as a force of nature in order for the TTC to be truly understood. Intellectual concepts get very fuzzy. But the Tao is as much physical as it is mental/spiritual. From a physical perspective of how energy flows, this is a perfect definition...

Gentleness is the function of Tao.

Reversion is the action of Tao;

Weakness is the method of Tao.

 

I think one of the drawbacks of "philosophical" taoism is that for someone who does not practice a physical taoist art, then the TTC becomes a poetic, intellectual piece of prose to be pondered and mused over. Many "Literary" experts pride themselves on their intellectual understanding of the TTC, but have no clue how to put it into action in their lives, (Which is the whole point) But, the TTC is more than just deep musings, it is actually a manual for energy cultivation. But unless someone practices some form of cultivation, they will only see poetic musings. As a physical Tao practitioner, I read a practical manual on cultivation... These principles are not something someone created out of an intellectual insight into the nature of the universe. These sayings are scientific "Findings" after lengthy experimentation. I believe that after experiencing this physically, then Lao Tzu (or whoever) wrote...

 

Gentleness is the function of Tao.

Reversion is the action of Tao;

Weakness is the method of Tao.

 

Before learning an IMA, the TTC was just a deep, poetic book, after learning IMAs, I saw that the TTC was actually a step by step manual on energy cultivation....

 

from the physical experience, then one can apply these principles in life, society, business, martial arts, politics etc...

 

I think many have the process backwards. They think about the Tao and then try to put it into practice. This reduces the principles of the TTC into intellectual ideas that people spend hours splitting hairs over...

[Marblehead]

Great post Fiveelementtao! Thanks for getting involved in this.

 

Peace & Love!

[TianhuaQigong]

反者道之动，弱者道之用。天下万物生于有，有生于无。

 

(after knowing Tao , knowing the way of Tao's running and ruling) to use system (rule) of Tao, you need go backward of the direction of flowing of those ruling. (if as my master said forward are human, backward are Xian). or "Reversion is the action of Tao;"

 

(you can not force Tao or Change Tao), when you want use those ruling of Tao ( after knowing those ruling) you can weakly change and follow all the rule of Tao as you wish.

 

everything under the heaven are born from exist, this exist is born from void.

 

this is my understanding of this chapter , not sure right or not.

 

黄元吉Yuanji Huang is a famous Qigong master about 1000s years ago, he also comments This chapter in Qigong view.

 

I guess no one can fully understand <Tao de jing>.

Edited November 30, 2009 by TianhuaQigong

[Marblehead]

Hi Tian,

 

Thanks for the input.

 

A very important comment you made: (you can not force Tao or Change Tao), when you want use those ruling of Tao ( after knowing those ruling) you can weakly change and follow all the rule of Tao as you wish.

 

It is true. We cannot change Tao. It is we who must change and allow Tao to operate unrestricted in our life.

 

And I agree with this: everything under the heaven are born from exist, this exist is born from void.

 

Everything is born of Being. Being is born of Non-Being.

 

And I agree with your first paragraph. We must learn the Way of Tao (nature) and in many cases it requires us to unlearn before we can learn.

 

Peace & Love!

[TianhuaQigong]

 

 

It is true. We cannot change Tao. It is we who must change and allow Tao to operate unrestricted in our life.

 

 

And I agree with your first paragraph. We must learn the Way of Tao (nature) and in many cases it requires us to unlearn before we can learn.

 

 

Hi Marblehead:

 

you must be a Doctor at some University,

 

He also talked about backward , and usage of Tao,

 

For "unlearn" Buddhism also has a term " blocks of more knowledge" , means is someone has a lot of knowledge, when new knowledge coming, most of people will compare with learned knowledge, if there are contradiction, they will simply think this new thing is wrong.

so, if there are something interesting , we should not to compare with what we knew, we should separate them as two system in our brain, after we fully knew the new thing, we can compare with the other set of system, then you put them two together, you will find a new world in front of you, large and better then two separated system, then keep go on .

[Marblehead]

Hi Marblehead:

 

you must be a Doctor at some University,

 

He also talked about backward , and usage of Tao,

 

For "unlearn" Buddhism also has a term " blocks of more knowledge" , means is someone has a lot of knowledge, when new knowledge coming, most of people will compare with learned knowledge, if there are contradiction, they will simply think this new thing is wrong.

so, if there are something interesting , we should not to compare with what we knew, we should separate them as two system in our brain, after we fully knew the new thing, we can compare with the other set of system, then you put them two together, you will find a new world in front of you, large and better then two separated system, then keep go on .

 

Hi Tian,

 

What a lovely compliment but no, I am just some relatively unknown guy who has been fortunate enough to have had a large number of various experiences in life.

 

I agree with your post and would like to add comment to your last paragraph.

 

The goal of becoming mindless is not to become a walking zombie but rather to become fully open and receptive to each and every new experience we have in life. To experience whatever it is in its true fullness without adding anything to it or subtracting anything from it. To experience it according to its reality (truth) without comparing it to any other experience we have had in life.

 

This way each experience will be special and unique. Each butterfly we see will be different. Each exercise session will produce it own special results. (My thoughts went to sex but I will avoid speaking of that. Hehehe)

 

The important thing is that we view each whatever according to its own attributes without comparing it to any other. No prejudices, no expectations, only the natural flow.

 

Peace & Love!

[Birch]

Mr Marblehead!

 

Doth the full moon play temptress?

 

I wonder. Is it not this idea of mind which is (one) of the problems?

 

Backwards would seem like a way to go in many situations. Let the situation come to you.

 

Forwards is perhaps already too far.

[Marblehead]

Mr Marblehead!

 

Doth the full moon play temptress?

 

I wonder. Is it not this idea of mind which is (one) of the problems?

 

Backwards would seem like a way to go in many situations. Let the situation come to you.

 

Forwards is perhaps already too far.

 

A funny thought entered my mind while reading you post: we need to be able to go backward and forward at the same time.

 

I know. That's wierd. No, I can't explain it at the moment.

 

I will agree that our mind (the way the brain works) is part of the problem. The way it stores and recalls information is sometimes very inaccurate.

 

Peace & Love!