the "base" of taoist meditation/mindfullness?

[zazaza]

I looked through the FAQ but it is huge,

and I would like to have some recommendations please.

 

 

1. So far the only thing I do is being mindfull of my mind, body & environment

as well as controlling my breath.

Is there any site or free PDF that explains the base of "taoist mindfullness" or anything like that?

(I can't buy any books because I'm a bum)

 

According to the taoist view

is it necessary to control the breath 24/7?

 

2. I like to be active in life and thus try keep my spiritual practice simple and non-time consuming,

on the other hand I like having good results.

Why are "energetic practices" so important?

 

3. I've read about a really simple energetic practice called "reiki".

It involves getting some attunements which "open the chakras",

and from then on you can "channel" the reiki without any effort.

 

People often ask a lot of money for these attunements.

Is reiki a good "energetic practice" for people who don't want to spend 10 hours per day doing energy

exercises? Are there better alternatives?

Edited November 29, 2009 by zazaza

[markern]

I don't know much about Reaiki but I think what the average reiki people do is, although beneficial, quite weak compared to a lot of what else is out there. I would look into KAP and Stilness movement. Both are very powerfull and effective and safe systems that several people here practice and are very, very happy with. Both are also easily integrateball into everyday life. KAP only requires about 40 min of practice each day to get realy good results but you can practice it for hours if you want and a lot of the practices are easy to do while you are doing something else such as playing videogames. I think much the same is true for stilness movement although I think the aim in that system is for a bit more practice time. Combine this with mindfulness practices and you have a very solid practice. KAP at least does not have very much physical work, although the teachers could also teach you lots of physical qigong and yoga and teach classes on that localy and have a book about their own type of yoga (Umaa Tantra), so to be complete with KAP some more physical stuff on the side would probably be good. Stilness movement I think includes quite a bit of physical stuff or at least you learn a good bit of physical qigong as well in the workshop although I am not sure if it is a required part of the system per se with much physical practice. Once you get going with any sort of system mindfulness in daily life will be much easier and alrgely effrotless a lot of the time. You can look up threads about both these systems and you can look in the personal practice section to see what people who practice these systems write about them. By the way Stilness movement is apure Taoist system whereas KAP combines practices from yoga, tibet, qigong, Bon and more.

 

About mindfulness you can find lots of good resources about it from a budhist perspective online. Not really sure if the daoist version of mindfulness differs. Shinzen Young has some very clear writings about it. Daniel Ingram has a superb book about the actual practice of Vipassana meditation but is concerned with the deeper meditation not so much the day to day midnfulness.

Edited November 29, 2009 by markern

[Marblehead]

According to the taoist view

is it necessary to control the breath 24/7?

 

It is my understanding that the only time we should concentrate on our breathing is during the early minutes of meditation.

 

In 'real' life our oxygen needs will be determined by our activity level. I believe we should allow it to be natural - our brain and body knows what it needs better than our rational thought can determine.

 

Peace & Love!

[sherab]

I just wanted to add that a lot of people here are "eclectic" - that is, they combine taoist meditations with other systems - kundalini from hinduism, etc.

 

So, i doubt you will find "authentic" taoist meditations here...

[TzuJanLi]

Greetings..

 

Clarity!! If you can experience your 'co-existence' with your environment with Clarity.. you are 'Authentic'.. Clarity is acheived when that little (or big) voice in your head is quiet.. when you can experience your existence without that 'voice' describing, remembering, and predicting.. that voice is the programming of your parents, teachers, clergy, peers, mentors, etc... this process often referred to as 'stilling the mind', more appropriately it is true Meditation..

 

It is important to note that the original 'Taoists' weren't labeled 'Taoists'.. Taoism modeled itself after these originators, people that experienced Life with Clarity, with unconditional sincerity and gusto..

 

Be well..

[Aetherous]

is it necessary to control the breath 24/7?

 

No way. Breathing is supposed to happen on its own, naturally, unless you want to control it. Being forced to control the breath because you don't otherwise inhale is wrong.

 

I've read about a really simple energetic practice called "reiki".

 

I'm not a fan of it...

 

Primordial Qigong is good. Just takes 20 minutes a day.

[Eric23]

zhan zhaung, standing qi gong/meditation. About as simple as one could find and very, very effective.

[markern]

No way. Breathing is supposed to happen on its own, naturally, unless you want to control it. Being forced to control the breath because you don't otherwise inhale is wrong.

I'm not a fan of it...

 

Primordial Qigong is good. Just takes 20 minutes a day.

 

 

I do that as well. It is very good on many levels. It sets of the entire alchemical process. Not many other single practices does that. It also makes you really grounded and balanced and opens your channels. Works a lot with the central channel.

[Non]

I do that as well. It is very good on many levels. It sets of the entire alchemical process. Not many other single practices does that. It also makes you really grounded and balanced and opens your channels. Works a lot with the central channel.

hey you know about the alchemical processes?

 

I have michael winn's "wuji (primordial) qigong/taiji for enlightenment" video, but by itself I think it's pretty worthless without the understanding of the internal alchemy and the theory behind it all.. which he doesn't even go into detail of.. just tells people at the end of the video that if we wanted more info we could call him and schedule an appointment.

 

Im not sure if the wuji qigong you do is the same as the one on michael winn's tape. http://www.chionline.com/qigong/wuji.htm This is the method.

 

So yea.. there are some unclear steps though.. because to me it doesn't seem very uniform and balanced.. sometimes I feel my chi ball escaping lol.

Edited November 30, 2009 by Non

[markern]

hey you know about the alchemical processes?

 

I have michael winn's "wuji (primordial) qigong/taiji for enlightenment" video, but by itself I think it's pretty worthless without the understanding of the internal alchemy and the theory behind it all.. which he doesn't even go into detail of.. just tells people at the end of the video that if we wanted more info we could call him and schedule an appointment.

 

Im not sure if the wuji qigong you do is the same as the one on michael winn's tape. http://www.chionline.com/qigong/wuji.htm This is the method.

 

So yea.. there are some unclear steps though.. because to me it doesn't seem very uniform and balanced.. sometimes I feel my chi ball escaping lol.

 

My chi balls also try to run away sometimes

 

I do Winns version too

 

I don't know much about the alchmical process just some borad things. But the form excanges positions of fire and water down in hte belly so that the fire comes under the water and cooks it and creates steam which then go up. It also blends heavenly and earthly energy, it focuses on the central channel, it works the three dan tien (look into the third eye in the begining, bring the chi ball up the central channel and out of the heart etc.) and it also blends the lower and middle dan tien. You don't have to know about the alchemical process to make it work. Probably in the begining it is better to just do and see what happens. The movments themselves will make this happen. My teacher after like 15 years of practice of various stuff, 4 years as a monk and several years of doing primordial qigong from winn avoids to do anything to controll the chi when he does this form and he advices me to not do either. Mostly when I have tried it has only hindered my progress I think. I think it is better for you to learn how the chi flows by itself when you do a form that just by movement will set of a good flow of chi then trying to direct the flow acording to the map. In some practices you want to do that but in this it is all in the moves. It might also be quite difficult for you at present to direct things well, you know with chi balls escaping and all. I struggle with that myself when I try. I am good at it at first but then I loose control and chi starts flying all over the place. I save that stuff for later.

Edited November 30, 2009 by markern

[DalTheJigsaw123]

Bumpin'

[Owledge]

@zazaza

Although somewhat book-based, just for your information, because you're interested in efficient methods, you might want to take a look at this:

http://www.kunlunbliss.com

 

Watch the two videos on the website and see whether it 'vibes' with you.

[Yuen Biao]

I don't know much about Reiki but I think what the average reiki people do is, although beneficial, quite weak compared to a lot of what else is out there.

 

If you do not know much about Reiki please refrain from what you 'think'.

 

Reiki is very powerful and can perfectly balance others and yourself. Reiki can also be as intense and blissful as any deep meditation you care to discuss whether it be Zhan Zhuang or KAP. Remember these are all focused on a similar aspect be it that of pertaining to energy and relaxation and they are all just different means to the same end.

Edited November 30, 2009 by Yuen Biao

[doc benway]

I looked through the FAQ but it is huge,

and I would like to have some recommendations please.

1. So far the only thing I do is being mindfull of my mind, body & environment

as well as controlling my breath.

Is there any site or free PDF that explains the base of "taoist mindfullness" or anything like that?

(I can't buy any books because I'm a bum)

 

According to the taoist view

is it necessary to control the breath 24/7?

 

2. I like to be active in life and thus try keep my spiritual practice simple and non-time consuming,

on the other hand I like having good results.

Why are "energetic practices" so important?

 

3. I've read about a really simple energetic practice called "reiki".

It involves getting some attunements which "open the chakras",

and from then on you can "channel" the reiki without any effort.

 

People often ask a lot of money for these attunements.

Is reiki a good "energetic practice" for people who don't want to spend 10 hours per day doing energy

exercises? Are there better alternatives?

1. I prefer the word Awareness over Mindfullness. Buddhist, Daoist, Christian, Jew, it doesn't matter.

Be aware! Pay attention to yourself, to others, to what's going on - the little stuff, not the propaganda that masquerades as newspapers. Be connected with you everday activity. Not in a sense of controlling it, but rather in an attempt to simply experience it and maybe even "understand" it a little bit.

Daoists do not believe in controlling anything. Who is there to control? What are they controlling?

Wu Wei is a core principle of Daoism. It means to recognize your connection to everything else and simple go with, rather than against the flow of your life. Controlling means to go against.

 

2. Energy practices are not important but they can help to become more aware.

 

3. I don't know much about Reiki but many of the folks that get involved get caught up in some of the new-agey hype surrounding it, so be careful that it doesn't become a distraction. It is a healing method invented by a Japanese guy in the 1920's.

 

 

Greetings..

 

Clarity!! If you can experience your 'co-existence' with your environment with Clarity.. you are 'Authentic'.. Clarity is acheived when that little (or big) voice in your head is quiet.. when you can experience your existence without that 'voice' describing, remembering, and predicting.. that voice is the programming of your parents, teachers, clergy, peers, mentors, etc... this process often referred to as 'stilling the mind', more appropriately it is true Meditation..

 

It is important to note that the original 'Taoists' weren't labeled 'Taoists'.. Taoism modeled itself after these originators, people that experienced Life with Clarity, with unconditional sincerity and gusto..

 

Be well..

I really like this and agree with it wholeheartedly.

 

Clarity, in my mind, is akin to my use of the word Awareness, and has similar connotations to the way the Buddhists use the word Mindfullness. Be an integral part of your life. Get out of your head and into your life, as Stephen Hayes would say.

 

The only thing I would add is that the Clarity must also be applied to that "little (or big) voice in your head".

Perhaps it is possible for the voice to be quiet at times but I don't think the voice can or needs to (or should) go away. It simply has to be seen for what it is using that same light of Clarity. It is just the thought that separates itself from the others and calls itself "I". It's the thought that gives us the illusion that we are separate from everything else, and acts as the interpreter, judge, and decider. The thought may not go away but is just another thought along with all the rest. The end of the conditioning is not necessarily the extinction of the voice but rather putting the voice in its proper perspective.

[C T]

 

The end of the conditioning is not necessarily the extinction of the voice but rather putting the voice in its proper perspective.

Absolutely spot on, Steve.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHmaBRlmYNw...feature=related

 

..and this teacher concurs with your observation too!

[33865_1494798762]

Edited December 2, 2009 by Guest

[markern]

If you do not know much about Reiki please refrain from what you 'think'.

 

Reiki is very powerful and can perfectly balance others and yourself. Reiki can also be as intense and blissful as any deep meditation you care to discuss whether it be Zhan Zhuang or KAP. Remember these are all focused on a similar aspect be it that of pertaining to energy and relaxation and they are all just different means to the same end.

 

I am aware that there are some powerfull meditations connected to the Reiki tradition, versions of Tummo etc., however all those I have met who claim to practice reiki, also people who charge for healings, who have nowhere near the results or experiences many people on this forum have through other systems. This is why I said average practioner of Reiki and what I wanted to do was make sure he avoided doing just what this people do and get small results. However, I should have been more clear and said something like I said now to do justice to what is somewhere in the system althoguh not found in the practice of too many of those who say they practice Reiki.

Edited December 1, 2009 by markern

[WhiteTiger]

According to the taoist view

is it necessary to control the breath 24/7?

 

I was once taught in a Yoga class where I was trying to correct parts hurting in my body consistantly on a daily baises that there are different levels which the physical pain afflict you. In each of these levels you can overcome them.

 

The Yoga teacher was very nice and openly in front of everyone else. Given that you have found the proper exercises to eventually fix the problem you have you continue to do the exercises until the muscles become flexable enough yet naturally strong enough to hold a more proper posture while your doing movements in your every day life.

 

steps

1. Doing the exercise is hard and painful which takes focus to do it with proper alignment.

2. Some pain subsides when doing the exercises from being mindful of proper alignment.

3. Eventually after doing the exercise enough times one will no longer have any pain in their daily life because the mindfullness will already be incorperated as an automatic way of behaving. It is like as an early child learning to walk. one no longer needs to think how to walk to walk.

 

It is very similar to Taoist breathing practices.

 

Easy answer to the question is yes.

 

just my thoughts.

 

peace,

wt

[DalTheJigsaw123]

What about KAP meditation? Does that teach mindfulness?

[33865_1494798762]

[Birch]

I believe that Reiki tipped me over. THEN I was obliged to start to try understanding energy work. THEN I found this forum.

The rest (as they say) is whatever

 

IMO (very personal opinion) the big things to watch out for are grounding, awareness/mindfulness and compassion.

 

While I understand the goals that a practitioner could have by not explaining anything to the person who is receiving, I'm starting to wonder about that.

 

The other things that would help are an open mind and healthy dose of skepticism.

[C T]

You said..

1. So far the only thing I do is being mindfull of my mind, body & environment

as well as controlling my breath.

......

.. and I say,

 

More than this is unnecessary baggage.

Less than this is like a ship without a sail.

 

......

 

 

Since you are already "doing" the above, what more do you need my friend?

 

Not that i am doubting your sincerity, but have you ever considered stopping "doing"

so much, but rather, try just "being"? After all, we are labelled human "beings" for a reason.

When one is totally mindful, the "doing" ceases. Action, actor, and stage merge as One.

With habitual mindfulness, after a while, even the One-ness is forgotten.

Some say this is the Ground of Being.

 

 

Most people are so hung-up with "doing" and "becoming" that they forget to "be".

 

So, ask yourself - Are you a "doer", a "becomer", or a "being"?

 

If the answer is "being", then its very simple - just Be..

 

 

After all, "being" is the most natural state, where energy conservation is at its peak.

It can be a profound practice in itself.. not easy though, must say. Cant be done by many.

 

 

......

 

All the best.

Edited December 2, 2009 by CowTao

[Marblehead]

Nice post CowTao!

 

Peace & Love!

[~jK~]

[Marblehead]

I was taught that:

"Our breath rides on our emotions -controll one & the other is controlled as well."

 

Why in the world would one want to control their emotions? Doing so destroys one's true nature. Same with breathing - when you control it you destroy it (its true nature).

 

Peace & Love!

 

(Hehehe. Just feeling a bit frisky at the moment.)