Stigweard Posted November 29, 2009 (edited) Comments and discussion welcomed. Edited March 13, 2011 by Stigweard Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted November 30, 2009 Y'all know me by now. Of course I voted "Literati Daoist". Peace & Love! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stigweard Posted November 30, 2009 Y'all know me by now. Of course I voted "Literati Daoist". Peace & Love! Hehehe ... Yup, we know you Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TzuJanLi Posted November 30, 2009 Greetings.. I am not a 'Taoist', or any ist or ism.. but i find that Taoism most closely approximates my understandings.. so, to choose which of the perspectives polled would most closely approximate my understandings, it would certainly be Literati.. Be well... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
YMWong Posted November 30, 2009 It should be pointed out that, while Prof Kohn's categories are more or less mirrored in Chinese history, the first group cannot be called 'daoists' in the true sense of the word (and in fact they are not called daoists in chinese). What is referred here as 'Literati Daoist' is simply a person with a good degree of cultural background and an inclination toward daoist writings. The fact that he may try to put those teachings into work in his own life doesn't make him any more 'daoist' than my mom, who tries her utmost mixing the best ingredients in the kitchen. Moreover, Daoists of the second and third category are ALL trained by a Daoist master and have ALL been accepted into a precise Daoist lineage, accepted the regulations and/or received registers. Most of those replying to this poll, in my experience, may only at best fit the 'Literati' category YM Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ya Mu Posted November 30, 2009 I don't think I fit in any of your categories. I was taught Taoism through apprenticeship for 12 years, then another apprenticeship for 10 years. We didn't do any of what you describe. We trained in getting in touch with and learning to manipulate the universal flow of energy in order to heal others, learned to practice true Listening, learned to stop the world, learned how to manipulate the creative fabric of the universe on the quantum level in order to assist humanity, learned to walk in the Wu Wei in order to always be where we are supposed to be at any given time and do what we are supposed to be doing at any given time, learned that there are always Higher Levels and that most of us don't know much. Guess I am not a real Taoist,... sigh. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aetherous Posted November 30, 2009 Ya Mu, We could call that category, True Taoist. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TzuJanLi Posted November 30, 2009 Greetings.. Something i posted in another thread, but.. it seems appropriate here, too.. Among the most crippling of attachments is the attachment to 'power'.. my interest in Taoism has spanned four decades, since a four-week portion of a course in high school called 'Cultural World History'.. the 'Taoism' section was only supposed to last a week, but.. in 1968 we were fascinated with the simple practicallity, and it helped that the teacher was an early student of Zen.. from that point till today Taoism has revealed itself as a practical guide to living well.. what has happened since that early introduction to the 'mysteries of Taoism' is that science has been able to reveal the processes that were once the domain of 'Mystics'.. 'Mystics' rather enjoyed their 'power' as keepers of the wisdoms.. Tradition is the strangle-hold applied by Mystics, fearful of losing their grip on the 'mysteries'.. what is eluding the Mystics, is that science reveals even more mystery, and.. it has done so largely on their shoulders.. Mystics are needed, they blaze the trails that science paves.. but, stagnant Traditions will burden the expansion of consciousness.. Ancient traditions are ateeped in superstition and myth, Mystics have always been the visionaries.. why stop now, why let the greed of power confine the expansion of consciousness.. Mystics were respected and feared, they were paid for their services and often immune to bureaucracy... Tradition is worthy of respect and deeply intense study, but.. if it can't evolve with the expanding consciousness it will stagnate and wither.. Since that time, i have studied with numerous Taoist adepts, 'masters' and 'schools'... my current understanding are the culmination of cultivated learning and practical life experiences.. any attempt to define/confine Tao, is quite futile.. Be well.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Taomeow Posted November 30, 2009 (edited) Edited November 30, 2009 by Taomeow Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aetherous Posted November 30, 2009 invariably She Interesting...what are your sources for this? I am sincerely asking...not disagreeing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Taomeow Posted November 30, 2009 Interesting...what are your sources for this? I am sincerely asking...not disagreeing. Here's two you might enjoy: The Woman in the Shaman's Body: Reclaiming the Feminine in Religion and Medicine, by Barbara Tedlock, Ph.D. The Language of the Goddess, by Marija Gimbutas (professor of archeology at UCLA) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aetherous Posted November 30, 2009 Ah yes, "the Goddess." I thought you were saying that in earlier times, only women became shamans. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yoda Posted November 30, 2009 Scott, In some Chinese archeological findings, no men and only certain women were buried with great wealth. Archeologists speculate that this is due to their status and ability as shaman leaders and has been seen in other cultures as well. Tao Toe, Yoda Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Taomeow Posted November 30, 2009 Yoda, thanks for the corroboration! Ah yes, "the Goddess." I thought you were saying that in earlier times, only women became shamans. Um... yes, that's exactly what I was saying. "The Goddess" is just the title of the book, not the refutation of the fact. And the fact that female-administered rites and rituals of the Goddess worship dating back at least 75,000 years of archeologically documented evidence (and quite likely far farther back than that) is well established, though not well liked by male-dominated religious and scientific institutions of today. Same archeological evidence has no male authority figures to show among its findings of the period -- these don't appear on the scene till a bit over 10,000 years ago (some say 10 to 15, but definitely none earlier). The advent of patriarchy was simultaneous with the introduction of agriculture, slave labor, pyramid building and all that jazz. We didn't live like that for 99.9% of our overall history on this planet at all. The Goddess book I referenced is mostly pictures -- and one of them is pretty interesting because it is a fully fledged taiji symbol (yin-yang) dating back 45,000 years, found at an archeological site in Europe, and associated with shamanic traditions of the Goddess served by female "embodiments." Laozi was of the same opinion, incidentally. So much so that in some esoteric schools of taoist thought, in order to prove that Laozi was legit, they have written treatises showing that Laozi was his own mother. Don't ask, I don't understand it myself... I mean, I dare not understand... there's a level where I do though... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DalTheJigsaw123 Posted November 30, 2009 Self-Cultivation! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ninpo-me-this-ninjutsu-me-that Posted November 30, 2009 Scott, In some Chinese archeological findings, no men and only certain women were buried with great wealth. Tao Toe, Yoda I wonder who were the real gold diggers then...the archeologists or the women buried there All joking aside, it does make more sense if it was a female shaman, men have made a pigs ear out of the world really. It's a shame some of the world 'leaders' didn't have their mothers standing beside them in order to tan their hides when they got out of line. Having said that Hilary Clinton instills a fear of global nuclear war in me. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted November 30, 2009 It should be pointed out that, while Prof Kohn's categories are more or less mirrored in Chinese history, the first group cannot be called 'daoists' in the true sense of the word (and in fact they are not called daoists in chinese). What is referred here as 'Literati Daoist' is simply a person with a good degree of cultural background and an inclination toward daoist writings. The fact that he may try to put those teachings into work in his own life doesn't make him any more 'daoist' than my mom, who tries her utmost mixing the best ingredients in the kitchen. I have no problem admitting to this assessment. Peace & Love! With little concept of time and property they have survived over 10,000 years in the African bush. Can training by a Master bring these people any closer to the Tao? They have probably already attained Tao. Peace & Love! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TzuJanLi Posted November 30, 2009 Greetings.. One of my mentors, a 'Taoist' with an impecable pedigree.. tells the story of visiting a fishing village in Vietnam.. he sat on the beach early one morning intending to complete his morning practice of meditations.. his attention was drawn to fisherman weaving a net.. he tells that he was transfixed with the fisherman's total awareness of his environment, the fisherman's movements seemed to flow with the 'pulse of Life', as he was fond of describing Tao as the pulse of Life.. he recalls that he should have become that fisherman's apprentice, the fisherman was wise enough to leave the Tao unnamed.. Be well.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yoda Posted December 1, 2009 I wonder who were the real gold diggers then...the archeologists or the women buried there Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
frp Posted December 2, 2009 See, Masters are as old as time, maybe older. Thank you, Meow. I loved your post as well as this discussion. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yoda Posted December 2, 2009 maybe older. It's a wild world for sure! ~~~ I guess I'm the only religious Taoist here!!! As long as us communals get a serving of immortality, I'm cool with the three divisions... nicely articulated, imo. Gaai Ji, Kyle Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Uncle Fester Posted December 2, 2009 (edited) Taomeow said: Now with tao it's like this... it's mystery of mysteries. If you don't professionally do mystery of mysteries, you are not a taoist. "Sorry kid... you do have talent, but you seem to be waiting for something..." as the Prophet said to Neo, causing him to stop "just going with the flow" and start "going against the flow." Turning him into a taoist, effectively. Edited September 19, 2021 by darebak Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
