KAP

[zazaza]

I started this thread to see different perspectives.

 

I hope you all find what's right for you.

 

And remember:

 

Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense. - Buddha

 

My opinion on how the kundalini is best awakened,

and how the enlightenment is best achieved,

is explained in the thread below.

 

http://www.thetaobums.com/Self-realization...ery-t12963.html

 

 

 

BE WELL EVERYONE _/\_

Edited December 29, 2009 by zazaza

[Aetherous]

Hey man, they're having a seminar in London next month!

 

http://www.kundaliniawakening.com/london-january-2010.html

[zazaza]

if it's costs money it's too expensive for a bum like me

 

 

i wish bliss unto all

Edited December 4, 2009 by zazaza

[John Zen]

Usually, the websites with big glaring "REGISTER NOW!" links that want you to pay money are complete garbage. This looks like a waste of time.

[Prince...]

Usually, the websites with big glaring "REGISTER NOW!" links that want you to pay money are complete garbage. This looks like a waste of time.

Yes...it's a total waste of time.

[Enishi]

Usually, the websites with big glaring "REGISTER NOW!" links that want you to pay money are complete garbage. This looks like a waste of time.

 

Sometimes general marketing techniques are needed to reach your audience.

 

Thus far, praciticing KAP has given me more energy and helped to greatly reduce the near constant depression I was experiencing several months ago. It was most definitely NOT a waste of time in my case.

[ryansmith]

Yes...it's a total waste of time.

 

Prince is right...it's so worthless I took KAp 1, 2 and am currently enrolled in PSD. My brother thinks it's so worthless he's taken KAP 1 and 2. In all reality KAP is the single greatest thing I have done for my life. Both Santi and Tao are great men and are great teachers who have already walked a great deal of the path. I have heard nothing but positive remarks for the teachers and system. good luck with whatever you choose, but it is quite inexpensive for the value you get.

Edited December 4, 2009 by ryansmith

[Deepbluesea]

Yes...it's a total waste of time.

That's hilarious because it is exactly the first thing that came to my mind!

 

In KAP 2 now. Every aspect of my life has changed for the better. Probably one of the top three best decisions I ever made was starting KAP with Santi (along with marrying my awesome wife and buying this kickass new pin nailer that is really perfecting my finish carpentry, haha.) The cost is like pennies for what you get. I can't say enough good things about my experience! I am a skeptic through and through, I don't mess around with stuff that don't work. My careers are better, I am more focused, I have more energy, my relationships are charged and those are all just side effects of the bliss.

 

Sounds like you got it all figured out John Zen, stay far, far away, don't touch it with a ten foot pole.

[KAPReview]

[That Guy]

:lol:

 

"It would be quite encouraging if Santiago or one of his students can come forward and give a proof of their attainments in a sufficiently reasonable fashion?"

 

let me know if he even tries. And I think I know who you are

 

 

And zazaza if you got the bucks to spare go for it, even if you don't go for it, I mean no spiritually developed being would refuse to teach you because of money. Seriously how would a spiritually developed being live with himself if he taught a horrible human being over you just because they had more money to spare.

[markern]

Hi KAPreview. Interesting that you had thios experience. I disagree with your general assesment though although I have not done KAP myself.

 

I have never seen any system get so consistently awesome feeback from so many people. THat is in temrs of power and effectiveness, safety and groundedness, effect on psychological development, integration into daily life in terms of the effects of the practices suporting their daily life rather then pulling them out of it which can often happen and the ability to use the practices almost all day while doing other stuff. Many of those who practice it have spent many, years practicing other systems like universal Tao, Zen, Kriya yoga, Bardo, Indian kundalini systems, other taosit systems etc. etc., A lot of the practioners really know what good other and more "classical and native" systems can do and still find KAP to be both more effective safer and better for their daily life. I know some people who do or did genuine Kriya yoga systems and I have seen what people who do such systems and some kundalini yoga systems write online and there is no doubt in my mind that for most people KAP is more powerfull and much much safer and certainly better for daily life.

 

THere is no scriptural study in KAP and there is virtually no scriptural study in most Zen schools. Both work fine. People get strem entry with vipassana all the time. Some of these do a lof scriptural study and some even certain morality trainings, many of them have hardly picked up a book and it still works fine.

 

I have received energy from Santiago through his thursday shaktipaths and I have received energy from Chunyi Lin during a personal healing session. The shaktipath was not far from as strong from when Lin focused only on me during the healing. Furthermore I belive Santiago sent me some energy yesterday after I sent him a PM and if he did that was the most usefull transmission of energy I have ever had because it really changed som stuff for the better. Either that or I had some sort of breakthrough by myself that felt like foregin energy doing good stuff to me.

 

THe techniques are probably not that uncommen but it is how they are combined that seem to do the trick.

 

THe amount of practices seems overwhelming but I have been carefully reading peoples practice blogs and it seems like they actually feet very well. Many of the practices fit together so once mastered indivudally you can do two or more practices at the same time and do them while ding tai chi etc. Several also eventually more or less become another more advanced technique when put togheter. Many of the techniques are also not meant to be necesarry but so that people can pick and choose what fits them and also a lot of it such as aura viewing and healing and otehr psychic techniques are jus there for you to put to good use or have fun with not to actually practice that much.

 

Anyway I belive all energy systems are dependent on having an insight meditation coupled with it to have a good chance of going from awakened kundalini to enlightenment. THat is what the tibetans do for veryu good reason. You need something like Zen, Vipassana, Dzogchen or an open awareness taoist style in order for the chance of getting enlightenment to be large. You can still make it if you are lucky but it would take a shitload of time lurking in high energy states untill you just get lukcy if you don't have some sort of insight meditation system mixed in. It does happen but is rare. KAP teaches Dzogchen eventually I belive and Dr MOrris recomended Zen on the side in path notes I belive.

 

There is also a post here somewhere where an answer from som eguy, I think Dan ferrera, to Drew Hempel gives some good insight into KAP compared to a bunch of really powerfull classical taoist systems. THe guy trined intensly with many different teachers and got a lot out of it and also learned from Santiago and Tao and says that it is one of the quickest and safest way to raise kundalini and that of all the techniques he learned over the years the secret smile was one of the two or three most usefull.

Edited December 5, 2009 by markern

[everseeking]

FWIW, I have not done KAP, was going to but put it off, still plan to when I get the $. I think it sounds like a great deal. I cant afford the time/$ to travel right now, but I can tune in online every week. Beyond that, my practice time is somewhat erratic. I've done standing meditation-from rudimentary in person instruction and email advice-for a few years. As a beginner, I doubt I could find such a wide variety of practices for the same price. There are many video series out there that teach only 1 or 2 practices and cost a lot more than KAP.

 

There are A LOT of people on here making lots of progress with KAP-lots more that I have read of any other available practice. I have read of only 1 negative experience by a KAPer, and I read post after post where He would say how bad he felt, then turn around and refuse the advice he was given-by his teacher-in order to correct it.

 

Chun Yi Lin does phone healings--does he charge?

 

"That guy"--As for 'a spiritually developed being' not teaching someone for free, how would you know? Are you one? If you are, why don't you teach zazaza for free? If you aren't spiritually developed, what makes you presume to know how a spiritually developed being should conduct themself? Why/how should anyone teach totally for free? I dont think its been that way historically-didn't the student bring the master food, and stuff? Well food is not free in this society.

 

Also, Santi does not have to prove anything to anyone-he teaches people KAP and they pay him for his services-which all of his students (that I have read) say are ample. If you want proof of his ability, look at the success and rave reviews he gets from his students. A lot of people do and love KAP, they must be happy with what they do.

 

 

Whats more, there have been several FREE public sessions of Shaktipat/Healing offered by Santi and Susan. I've managerd to tune in for two, they were great, I got good results-I tuned in and they guided us through meditation, I've learned a few new things, and whats more, I got more powerful sensations and results than I ever have meditation alone.

 

Does Chinyi Lin or any other teacher do anything like this free to the public?

 

I have spondylolisthesis in my lower back, I did the guided meditation and focused the energy to my back the other night-I could actually feel energy moving, and more than I can do solo-and my back stopped hurting that night, and hasn't since then.

 

Donations are accepted (not required) for these sessions, part of which goes to reputable charities that will benefit children.

 

WHAT MORE DO YOU WANT FROM THE GUY????

 

Santi and KAP and the KAP teachers don't need me to defend them-it just rubs me when I see one of these threads questioning KAP and challenging Santi every few weeks.

 

If you think Santi or any KAP teachers don't have anything, you're probably going to have to do more than talk about them on an internet forum to find them out. Show up or sign up and see for yourself! But be aware that they all claim that you have to be prepared to put in the time and work.

[KAPReview]

WHAT MORE DO YOU WANT FROM THE GUY????

 

you're probably going to have to do more than talk about them on an internet forum to find them out. Show up or sign up and see for yourself! But be aware that they all claim that you have to be prepared to put in the time and work.

 

I think your post is simply an emotional outburst and it does seem to me that you did not bother to read my post entirely with an open mind. I also stated clearly that I have studied personally and through Skype with both Santiago and Tao. Can't think of a better example where grounding and some shamatha kind of practice would help

 

And, I stated my experience as someone asked for it. I totally agree if someone disagrees with me, but I don't care as I have made my point. I deeply appreciate Santiago for the nice guy he is but I have had this burden on my chest for a long time now, as though I have been faking an orgasm with the love of my life. It felt necessary to finally express what I really thought about KAP and not doing so seemed to go totally against everything my Rinpoches stood for. I've done that and don't care to explain myself further. To each their own

 

Good luck and blessings to all..

Namo Amitabha

[markern]

FWIW, I have not done KAP, was going to but put it off, still plan to when I get the $. I think it sounds like a great deal. I cant afford the time/$ to travel right now, but I can tune in online every week. Beyond that, my practice time is somewhat erratic. I've done standing meditation-from rudimentary in person instruction and email advice-for a few years. As a beginner, I doubt I could find such a wide variety of practices for the same price. There are many video series out there that teach only 1 or 2 practices and cost a lot more than KAP.

 

There are A LOT of people on here making lots of progress with KAP-lots more that I have read of any other available practice. I have read of only 1 negative experience by a KAPer, and I read post after post where He would say how bad he felt, then turn around and refuse the advice he was given-by his teacher-in order to correct it.

 

Chun Yi Lin does phone healings--does he charge?

 

Yep. They last about 8 minutes or so at what would normally be an hourly rate I think. That might be fair depending on the time needed to cleanse and or build energy, I am not sure. I still recomend it though as it seemed able to do a lot of good if done regularily over a long time.

 

"That guy"--As for 'a spiritually developed being' not teaching someone for free, how would you know? Are you one? If you are, why don't you teach zazaza for free? If you aren't spiritually developed, what makes you presume to know how a spiritually developed being should conduct themself? Why/how should anyone teach totally for free? I dont think its been that way historically-didn't the student bring the master food, and stuff? Well food is not free in this society.

 

JA MU has said a bunch of time that he would love to teach for free is someone could suport him while doing so but he needs money to live his life and no one has yet given him such an arrangement so what is he then to do? Not teach? And what should Santiago do ? Not teach because he has to work as something else to suport his family? As far as I know Santiago has given a lot of his time and certainly of his energy for free. A LOT. He also give so much extra suport time in addition to the classes on facebook etc. that you get a god bit more then the class time for what you pay.

 

Also, Santi does not have to prove anything to anyone-he teaches people KAP and they pay him for his services-which all of his students (that I have read) say are ample. If you want proof of his ability, look at the success and rave reviews he gets from his students. A lot of people do and love KAP, they must be happy with what they do.

 

How does one prove that anyway? I know far back when someone doubted Santi he sent a chi ball the size of mount Vesuvio up the guys spine although he had only read his posts and did not know who he was and where he were and the guy endorsed Santiago after that and confirmed the time of the Chi ball. But this only proves powerfull energy and projection ability not Kundalini or enlightenment and I don"t see how that is possible except for when other realized masters scan your body. So what is he to do here on htetaobums to prove something like this?

 

Whats more, there have been several FREE public sessions of Shaktipat/Healing offered by Santi and Susan. I've managerd to tune in for two, they were great, I got good results-I tuned in and they guided us through meditation, I've learned a few new things, and whats more, I got more powerful sensations and results than I ever have meditation alone.

 

Does Chinyi Lin or any other teacher do anything like this free to the public?

 

I have spondylolisthesis in my lower back, I did the guided meditation and focused the energy to my back the other night-I could actually feel energy moving, and more than I can do solo-and my back stopped hurting that night, and hasn't since then.

 

Cool! I have some sort of spondy (cant remember the rest of the name) ilness aas well and it is bothering me again these days. If energywork and not just physical work can help it that sounds promising.

 

Donations are accepted (not required) for these sessions, part of which goes to reputable charities that will benefit children.

 

WHAT MORE DO YOU WANT FROM THE GUY????

 

Santi and KAP and the KAP teachers don't need me to defend them-it just rubs me when I see one of these threads questioning KAP and challenging Santi every few weeks.

 

If you think Santi or any KAP teachers don't have anything, you're probably going to have to do more than talk about them on an internet forum to find them out. Show up or sign up and see for yourself! But be aware that they all claim that you have to be prepared to put in the time and work.

 

 

It should also be note that the KAP people has done an amazing job of smoothing out problems for people that come from other systems and are seriously ungrounded. One guy came from long struggles with unbalances from AYP (which otherwise has a very good trackrecord of keeping people safe and balanced and also smoothing out problems people come with from otehr practices) and another had had about ten years of misery and had sought help everywhere and was smoothed out, by I think Santiago but might have been Tao, in no time. There are a bunch of others like this.

Edited December 5, 2009 by markern

[everseeking]

Hey, I understand. I did read your post, and my all caps comment was directed toward "That guy" and to a lesser extent 'John Zen'.

 

I'm not angry about it, its just that I see posts where people are critical in every way about KAP and Santi, and it nearly always amounts to something along the lines of:

 

"how can he charge money, it must be fake because its not free, He must be a fake because he hasn't made a video of himself doing _________ thing and put it on youtube, etc"

 

And KAPreview, I realize that you have done KAP and spoken critically of it (in part), but you are the only person I have yet to see do so. Maybe there are more-probably so. But I have read countless posts by people who've done KAP and loved it, and said it was more than worth the fee. I could say the same about all the tangible/noticeable and even profound effects KAP practitioners experience.

 

I appreciate that you shared your honest experience with KAP and Santi with us. I don't feel that you were posting it just to trash talk Santi. Heck man, I dont even know the guy. Looking at it from the outside though, your less than awesome experience with KAP is just one against many positive ones I've seen, and I don't think that is enough reason for other people to jump on here and start talking trash about it.

 

I dont think I've ever read a thread about someone who thought Chunyi Lin's Spring Forest Qigong was a rip off, or a thread suggesting Wang Liping is a fraud or fake, yet I've seen several threads on here taking a stab at KAP and/or Santi.

 

I hardly think one or two peoples negative or mediocre experiences outweigh so many positives.

 

Haven't a lot of people claimed to have gotten screwed up from Kunlun?

 

 

I just wanted to jump up and say something, as your honest analytical post/thread inadvertently attracts people wanting to criticize KAP without good reason.

[Deepbluesea]

I think your post is simply an emotional outburst and it does seem to me that you did not bother to read my post entirely with an open mind. I also stated clearly that I have studied personally and through Skype with both Santiago and Tao. Can't think of a better example where grounding and some shamatha kind of practice would help

 

And, I stated my experience as someone asked for it. I totally agree if someone disagrees with me, but I don't care as I have made my point. I deeply appreciate Santiago for the nice guy he is but I have had this burden on my chest for a long time now, as though I have been faking an orgasm with the love of my life. It felt necessary to finally express what I really thought about KAP and not doing so seemed to go totally against everything my Rinpoches stood for. I've done that and don't care to explain myself further. To each their own

 

Good luck and blessings to all..

Namo Amitabha

I respectfully acknowledge your view.

 

With so many positive responses to the KAP program (and I have stated a small fraction of mine) what leads you to believe that your lack of benefit, your "faking an orgasm" has anything to do with KAP, Santi, or Tao? Why are you so convinced that your lack of progress in the KAP system is external as opposed to internal?

 

I hope you feel better now that you have let go of this burden. Best Wishes.

 

I especially appreciate your post because it comes from someone that has actually taken classes and you presented your experiences in a classy and objective manner.

 

Santi,

Please show us many feats of strength and glory, spin some straw into gold for us, amaze us with some shiny objects, how 'bout turn some water into wine. Give us a video of you parting the Red Sea, c'mon, you don't have any footage of you, while chariot-borne, slaying monsters with your finger nails? Maybe throw in some video of sexual conquests or sky diving off of Mount Everest. Please run an 8" knife through your chest, pull it from your bloodless body and say, "It didn't even hurt."

 

We need proof of whom you are ...

 

... not of whom we are ...

 

Sheep follow those that yell the loudest and wave their arms the wildest.

[markern]

Why don't someone show me PROOF of the awakened kundalini and enlightenment of any indian, tibetan or chineese master? It has to be one that shows something no western Derren Brown type can do though. Everything the Mo PAy guy does could well be magick tricks. Who has ever seen proof of kundalini in anyone? Of abilities with chi sure, but proof of kundalini???? Of enlightenment?????????????

 

We really do need a remake of the parting of the red sea. Egypt could pay santi to make a sort of biblical remake tour doing all the miracles of Moses where they were actaully performed

[That Guy]

 

Santi,

Please show us many feats of strength and glory, spin some straw into gold for us, amaze us with some shiny objects, how 'bout turn some water into wine. Give us a video of you parting the Red Sea, c'mon, you don't have any footage of you, while chariot-borne, slaying monsters with your finger nails? Maybe throw in some video of sexual conquests or sky diving off of Mount Everest. Please run an 8" knife through your chest, pull it from your bloodless body and say, "It didn't even hurt."

 

We need proof of whom you are ...

 

... not of whom we are ...

 

Sheep follow those that yell the loudest and wave their arms the wildest.

 

now THAT would be awesome! I would be well impressed!

 

Well if you're not a sheep bro~ you'll ask the shepherd why you should follow him? Does he really know better than you? And then you'll have to ask for some sort of validation that what he tells you is true. If you're not a sheep look to make your own judgement rather than just say

(read the next line like a sheep)

"well other pehhhople have had goood ehhhhxperiehhhnces with kAhhhP"

because well, those reviews could be by sheehhhp

 

If you're going crazy and need a mentor to help you straighten yourself up or should I say someone to help you become more grounded then why not. But when reiki and spiritual stuff is thrown into the mix, well then I'm gonna have to be a little more demanding.

 

"How does one prove that anyway? I know far back when someone doubted Santi he sent a chi ball the size of mount Vesuvio up the guys spine although he had only read his posts and did not know who he was and where he were and the guy endorsed Santiago after that and confirmed the time of the Chi ball."

 

This story for real? Make my chi gift shaped like a pyramid if you can, that would be pretty cool

[Creation]

KAPReveiw,

 

I am very glad you posted your review. Too often people are praise KAP like it is perfect or are negative trolls, so no one can get a balanced opinion. I don't want KAP to become another Kunlun. The fact that you felt like you had to make a special KAPReview account to say this indicates that I am not the only one who thinks that is the direction it is going in. Plus the many red flags in the ensuing discussion.

 

Generally speaking, I agree with the pros and cons you listed. I was definitely thinking "I'm glad I wasn't the only one who thought that" when I read your post.

 

KAP does a great service by offering Skype classes, so that people can have at least some interaction with a teacher who could not do so otherwise. This is why I took the course. As far as I can tell, Santi and Tao are both very generous and powerful, they have been around the spiritual block having studied the Indian, Chinese, Japanese, Tibetan, and Indonesian traditions. With so many charlatans out there, at least there is one system people can study online where you know the teachers are for real.

 

OTOH, people need to know that KAP is a energetic development system [EDIT: of course, energy and emptiness and virtue are connected, but in the human state it can be difficult to realize this in practice] and leans toward the left-hand approach and the path of power.

 

I am glad I took KAP for many reasons, and I do not regret it one bit, but I must say that certain aspects of the class where underwhelming to me. The main perks have been not from the class itself, but getting connected to Santi, Tao, Susan, and even Dr. Morris a bit, and all that they have to offer.

 

Which brings me to a puzzle. You really never felt Santi's transmission? I am not very sensitive I can feel it. And I don't think it's my suggestibility because sometimes I don't feel it, or feel it in weird places or with delays. I had my even less sensitive mother watch his "Healing Session 2" video on youtube, and she felt it. That guy has some INSANE juice! When Santi first came to the forum, a respected member didn't take him seriously, and Santi sent him juice un-announced, causing him to make this flabbergasted "Okay I take you seriously now" post. So I'm very surprised that you said you didn't feel it, having the background that you do.

Edited December 5, 2009 by Creation

[markern]

now THAT would be awesome! I would be well impressed!

 

Well if you're not a sheep bro~ you'll ask the shepherd why you should follow him? Does he really know better than you? And then you'll have to ask for some sort of validation that what he tells you is true. If you're not a sheep look to make your own judgement rather than just say

(read the next line like a sheep)

"well other pehhhople have had goood ehhhhxperiehhhnces with kAhhhP"

because well, those reviews could be by sheehhhp

 

If you're going crazy and need a mentor to help you straighten yourself up or should I say someone to help you become more grounded then why not. But when reiki and spiritual stuff is thrown into the mix, well then I'm gonna have to be a little more demanding.

 

"How does one prove that anyway? I know far back when someone doubted Santi he sent a chi ball the size of mount Vesuvio up the guys spine although he had only read his posts and did not know who he was and where he were and the guy endorsed Santiago after that and confirmed the time of the Chi ball."

 

This story for real? Make my chi gift shaped like a pyramid if you can, that would be pretty cool

 

Yes it is in one of the threads here. I don't remember which thread or the name of the guy who got the chi ball but I am sure someone else does. An import part of this is that the guy wrote about it in a thread before Satiago mentioned he did so or had mentioned that he would do so.

Edited December 5, 2009 by markern

[markern]

KAPReveiw,

 

I am very glad you posted your review. Too often people are praise KAP like it is perfect or are negative trolls, so no one can get a balanced opinion. I don't want KAP to become another Kunlun. The fact that you felt like you had to make a special KAPReview account to say this indicates that I am not the only one who thinks that is the direction it is going in. Plus the many red flags in the ensuing discussion.

 

Generally speaking, I agree with the pros and cons you listed. I was definitely thinking "I'm glad I wasn't the only one who thought that" when I read your post.

 

KAP does a great service by offering Skype classes, so that people can have at least some interaction with a teacher who could not do so otherwise. This is why I took the course. As far as I can tell, Santi and Tao are both very generous and powerful, they have been around the spiritual block having studied the Indian, Chinese, Japanese, Tibetan, and Indonesian traditions. With so many charlatans out there, at least there is one system people can study online where you know the teachers are for real.

 

OTOH, people need to know that KAP is a energetic development system (not other types of development) and leans toward the left-hand approach and the path of power.

 

I am glad I took KAP for many reasons, and I do not regret it one bit, but I must say that certain aspects of the class where underwhelming to me. The main perks have been not from the class itself, but getting connected to Santi, Tao, Susan, and even Dr. Morris a bit, and all that they have to offer.

 

Which brings me to a puzzle. You really never felt Santi's transmission? I am not very sensitive I can feel it. And I don't think it's my suggestibility because sometimes I don't feel it, or feel it in weird places or with delays. I had my even less sensitive mother watch his "Healing Session 2" video on youtube, and she felt it. That guy has some INSANE juice! When Santi first came to the forum, a respected member didn't take him seriously, and Santi sent him juice un-announced, causing him to make this flabbergasted "Okay I take you seriously now" post. So I'm very surprised that you said you didn't feel it, having the background that you do.

 

 

But what do you think of the actual practices Creation? What did they bring you and do you still practice them? I know you have also taken a stillness movement workshop, has that worked better for you then KAP and how do they differ?

 

AS for myself I plan on doing KAP eventually but want to ground first, do some more moderate and basic practices and sort some stuff out before I do anything that is potentially very powerful although clearly Kundalini per se does not happen as early with KAP as advertised. For me it is essential to combine KAP with Vipassana because I believe no energetic system has a good chance of getting you enlightened unless you combine it with an insight practice. And when I say insight practice I do not just mean sitting in "emptiness" somehow which can often be a concentric practice but an open investigation of reality type meditation like Vipassana, Zen Dzogchen and I believe certain Taoist stillness practices and certain christian practices and stuff from other traditions has similar but it has to be something else than a shamata practice.

 

The tibetans have done such a combination now for an endless amount of time and if energy practices alone could do it they would have figured that out now and just skipped the insight practices. I believe energy practices can get you to the doorstep of enlightenment but then it is only insight and or surrender that will get you further which is why such a meditation and training is important. It can happen without this if you hang out in the landscape close to enlightenment where energy practices can take you because you eventually somehow get it or surrender enough but IMO it must be much easier if you actually know how to do insight practice. An interesting analogy to this is that a lot of people accidentally through meditation or even without any practice just in a dream or something cross what they in VIpassana call the arising and passing away which is very similar to a kundalini awakening. After that you invariably enter the Dark Night territory (which can be very mild for some and horrible for others).

 

Acording to the Vipassana tradition you can then skip all the long hard work others have put in to get to the arising and passing away and just finish the last phases up till enlightenment which CAN be quite quick. I think raising the kundalini gets you into some of the same territory (can be exactly the same but also quite different but similar) and if you have an intelligent energy system it can also get you quite a bit further just by energy practices but then you will be stuck at the door of enlightenment for a looooooooong time unless you have an insight practice.

[TheSongsofDistantEarth]

Thanks, KAPReview, for the input. It felt like you were speaking your truth and weren't trying to do anything but give your experience and honest opinion. I thought the responses from those who were threatened by your post spoke more than they knew. I don't know Santi, but I have suspected that he would not be a good teacher for me, even though his abilities and attainments are formidable. From his posts here he seems rather coarse or crass compared to Tao (whom I have interacted with) who seems to be a more refined and conscious human being, but those are just my probably not very accurate impressions.

Edited December 14, 2009 by TheSongsofDistantEarth

[~jK~]

Someone on this forum recommended me this.

What you all think of it? You recommend it?

 

Where can i learn it in europe?

 

Are there cheaper online courses than those

at "http://www.kundaliniawakeningprocess.com"

 

I want the kundalini energy flowing through me,

with a quick, easy and safe method!

I used this one - it is 16 years old, 85 pages - large print - with 10 pictures - and in most libraries:

The Five Tibetans: Five Dynamic Exercises for Health, Energy, and Personal Power (Paperback)

~ Christopher S. Kilham

http://www.amazon.com/Five-Tibetans-Dynami...l/dp/0892814500

[Blind Owl]

[Cookie Monster]

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Edited September 26, 2020 by Ocean Form