KAP

[voidisyinyang]

Santiago I quit my job at a nonprofit. Too bad so many charities get corrupted from the donations:

 

http://pinewswire.blogspot.com/2009/12/fee...accused-of.html

 

Thanks Scotty

 

you can go to

 

www.doblesinstitute.com and scroll to bottom or....

 

go directly to the folks in need:

 

http://www.feedthechildren.org/site/PageSe...me=abc_homepage

 

http://www.islamicreliefusa.org/emergencies/india-emergency

 

Peace brother & God Bless you & your family.

 

Thanks for supporting the good cuases.

 

I will notify you when the next Charity SHAKTIPAT event will be so you can join us.

 

Santi

[Aetherous]

Luckily, it looks like the organization wasn't corrupted, because the board fired him.

[ShaktiMama]

 

 

my personal details are not necessary to be shared.

as i already said, even if i was the biggest fool on earth then that still wouldn't mean that

my words aren't the true.

 

could reply more, just too much work coz we disagree on too much.

i wish you well. bye

 

just looking for clarity on why you speak with authority on what you say...just wondering about your practice that causes you to make such statements...

 

in other words, i am asking you to be accountable for what you say, true or not...be honest with yourself if you can't with us... truth can be written in the mud but it is still mud unless the truth is taken and put into action...unless you choose not to do anything with the truth and you can...none of my business if you dont....but you are wasting my time if you don't because I only train with those who do...

 

you have ignored probably all questions I asked about how your practice influences and infuses your life and how you have personally come to the assumptions you share.. this absence says more than your responses...

 

this board is full of words...dont hear much about practice of a virtuous and examined life...but then I haven't been here more than a couple of weeks. maybe I should look at the practice journals instead

 

peace be with you

[zazaza]

just looking for clarity on why you speak with authority on what you say...just wondering about your practice that causes you to make such statements...

with authority.....?

you think because you do what you do you are an authority?

 

i like buddha's advice on "listening to people with authority".

Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense. -Buddha

 

 

 

truth can be written in the mud but it is still mud unless the truth is taken and put into action..

i'm not writing truth in the mud i'm writing it on this board.

 

you have ignored probably all questions I asked about how your practice influences and infuses your life and how you have personally come to the assumptions you share.. this absence says more than your responses...

i'm happy with the results of my practice, just as you seem to be happy with yours.

that is why you advocate your views, and i advocate mine.

 

i was guided by these free books by Gunuratana and nisargadatta

imo, for the student willing to give what it takes,

they contain all info needed to attain the surpreme and realize the godhead/nirvana/tao.

 

this board is full of words...dont hear much about practice of a virtuous and examined life..

do you lead a virtuous life or is that your opinion?

i'm sure there are less virtious people than you,

but i think that it's not appropriate to suggest this about yourself as we all tend to be kind of subjective.

 

about how virtiuous my life is:

i don't feel the need to mention the good things i do or have done,

i try my best not to take pride in anything and i try my best to be very very aware of where i have lacked in the past

and where i lack in the present.

 

i wish you and all around you much luck and happinness.

Edited December 23, 2009 by zazaza

[Pero]

I have learned something of GiH's observations. That someone of high realization can still have a frozen heart chakra.

 

This assuming you're not mistaken and that you can actually "see" such things...

[安永樂]

---

Edited August 22, 2019 by 安永樂

[Pero]

In this I am not mistaken. By their fruit shall ye know them.

 

What do you think the fruit is and how do you know?

[ShaktiMama]

with authority.....?

you think because you do what you do you are an authority?

 

i like buddha's advice on "listening to people with authority".

Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense. -Buddha

i'm not writing truth in the mud i'm writing it on this board.

i'm happy with the results of my practice, just as you seem to be happy with yours.

that is why you advocate your views, and i advocate mine.

 

i was guided by these free books by Gunuratana and nisargadatta

imo, for the student willing to give what it takes,

they contain all info needed to attain the surpreme and realize the godhead/nirvana/tao.

do you lead a virtuous life or is that your opinion?

i'm sure there are less virtious people than you,

but i think that it's not appropriate to suggest this about yourself as we all tend to be kind of subjective.

 

about how virtiuous my life is:

i don't feel the need to mention the good things i do or have done,

i try my best not to take pride in anything and i try my best to be very very aware of where i have lacked in the past

and where i lack in the present.

 

i wish you and all around you much luck and happinness.

 

Good Buddha quote...I tell that to my students. Live the empirical life...find out for yourself...don't let anyone tell you what is up without trying it out for yourself.

 

I am an authority unto myself. Are you your own authority or do you borrow it from others?

 

I will drop a name here. I was a friend of Jerry's of nonduality.com when he was starting that site. How do I know him...we became friends on a kundalini list back in 1997. I watched that non duality list of his grow as an offshoot of a list that was devoted to kundalini by kundalites who wanted to explore non-duality. He then eventually created the website.

 

So you can gather all the info you want but how is that info expressed in your day to day life?

 

Since Santi and I will be in London next month teaching,come meet and play. The Friday night at the University is free. We will be talking, sharing, doing kundalini meditations, giving Shaktipat. There will be some t bums there too who are taking the class with us. So check it our for yourself.

 

It is always more fruitful and illuminating to come out from behind the internet mask into the real world and see there are real people out there.

 

All are welcome to come.

 

how to get there is listed on our site:

http://www.kundaliniawakening.com/london-january-2010.html

[zazaza]

Since Santi and I will be in London next month teaching,come meet and play.

i can't come and play in london,

but even if i could i wouldn't...

 

i've seen and heard enough to know that i'm done with this thread.

we would just keep going back and forth for eternity.

 

my conclusion is that:

you push one direction, i push the other.

 

you and me we are the same,

there is just a difference in views.

 

peel off all the outer layers and there it is: the end of subjectivity.

you and santi's teachings is not centered around peeling off the outer layers,

in fact all i see you guys doing is adding more outer layers.

 

you and santi, like many other "teachers",

talk about transforming oneself - changing the ego. you (mama) have even said this literally.

 

this is in direct contradiction with the essential teaching of:

-buddhist dharma

-yoga

-tao te ching

-many other systems

 

all these teach that we should not transform ourselves because our true nature is already perfect,

we are already free.

 

 

 

if you like "working with energy",

then please continue. I can see that energy work can potentially have positive benefits

on the body - and in attaining certain specific goals - but it won't bring anyone closer to liberation...

it won't!

 

i know it can bring a sense of empowerment,

but this can not be confused with liberation because the creator of the prison is the mind,

and the way to stop creating that prison is by learning to see clearly. to stop imagining!

the problem begins in the mind and it is to be ended in the mind

 

when one purifies his mind,

all of the latent inner energies such as kundalini start to awaken automatically.

 

why you and santi do not emphasize these important core truths is beyond me.

everytime i read your posts it seems like your always suggesting in a subtle way that K.A.P. will liberate people?

 

this is impossible, because like i said: the problem begins in the mind and it is to be ended in the mind.

this is the reason why i have been replying to your posts, because not even the strongest physically energetic body brings one closer to the godhead/tao.

 

to become closer to the godhead/tao, one must purify the mind...

it is the only way.

 

Enter through the narrow gate. The gate that leads to damnation (samsara) is wide, the road is clear, and many choose to travel it. But how narrow is the gate that leads to life (liberation), how rough the road, and how few there are who find it. [Mathew 7:13-14]

 

 

 

on the other hand, i can clearly see your intentions toward people are good

and i sincerely hope you and santi, and every being who is around you both, will have good luck and happiness in life.

 

i promise this was my last post on this matter,

and i will now stay off your backs forever.

 

with love,

zazaza

Edited December 23, 2009 by zazaza

[C T]

Well spoken Zazaza.

[voidisyinyang]

Edited December 24, 2009 by drewhempel

[lino]

this board is full of words...dont hear much about practice of a virtuous and examined life...but then I haven't been here more than a couple of weeks. maybe I should look at the practice journals instead

 

peace be with you

 

 

I'm still trying to figure out the virtuous and examined life right now. Especially, the "examined", I'm hoping

that I can reduce the time of "mental masturbation" so that I can arrive to understanding and best wishes for

everybody (to include myself) as a conditioned reflex. After that, having a serious examination every half-dozen to dozen events be good to prevent laziness. I'm hoping to cut out the unproductive emotion, the recognition that there is a problem, and the time lag for mental masturbation to reach a conclusion. I'm just starting to have an inkling of an understanding what relative Bodhicitta is all about and how Relative Bodhicitta and Absolute Bodhicitta tie into each other, which is very promising.

 

I'm still in the beginning stages of the crawl phase of "crawl, walk, run".

 

Thank you for saying that the ego has to be retrained.

[ShaktiMama]

i can't come and play in london,

but even if i could i wouldn't...

 

i've seen and heard enough to know that i'm done with this thread.

we would just keep going back and forth for eternity.

 

my conclusion is that:

you push one direction, i push the other.

 

you and me we are the same,

there is just a difference in views.

 

peel off all the outer layers and there it is: the end of subjectivity.

you and santi's teachings is not centered around peeling off the outer layers,

in fact all i see you guys doing is adding more outer layers.

 

you and santi, like many other "teachers",

talk about transforming oneself - changing the ego. you (mama) have even said this literally.

 

this is in direct contradiction with the essential teaching of:

-buddhist dharma

-yoga

-tao te ching

-many other systems

 

all these teach that we should not transform ourselves because our true nature is already perfect,

we are already free.

if you like "working with energy",

then please continue. I can see that energy work can potentially have positive benefits

on the body - and in attaining certain specific goals - but it won't bring anyone closer to liberation...

it won't!

 

i know it can bring a sense of empowerment,

but this can not be confused with liberation because the creator of the prison is the mind,

and the way to stop creating that prison is by learning to see clearly. to stop imagining!

the problem begins in the mind and it is to be ended in the mind

 

when one purifies his mind,

all of the latent inner energies such as kundalini start to awaken automatically.

 

why you and santi do not emphasize these important core truths is beyond me.

everytime i read your posts it seems like your always suggesting in a subtle way that K.A.P. will liberate people?

 

this is impossible, because like i said: the problem begins in the mind and it is to be ended in the mind.

this is the reason why i have been replying to your posts, because not even the strongest physically energetic body brings one closer to the godhead/tao.

 

to become closer to the godhead/tao, one must purify the mind...

it is the only way.

on the other hand, i can clearly see your intentions toward people are good

and i sincerely hope you and santi, and every being who is around you both, will have good luck and happiness in life.

 

i promise this was my last post on this matter,

and i will now stay off your backs forever.

 

with love,

zazaza

 

 

as you wish... you did write me and ask how to awaken kundalini...so you sound disingenuous to me...i gave you three simple techniques that I told you if you practiced for 20 minutes twice a day for 90 days, I can guarantee...if you genuinely and with a good heart do the practices your kundalini will awaken

 

all roads lead to rome

 

good luck

[lino]

This assuming you're not mistaken and that you can actually "see" such things...

 

I missed that one.

 

Insight to lead to compassion is supposed to be applied to both of the conflicting sides,

the slandered and the slanderer, the defender and the aggressor. Santiago was taught

this pretty early and still practices it.

 

Most of the time the defender and the aggressor have the same limitations, same filters,

same unwholesome emotional states, and same unwholesome reactions.

That is why some conflicts never ends.

 

A more advanced person recognized the faults because the faults were his or her own at some time.

When they recognize it they feel compassion for people with faults because the advanced person sees themselves in the other person.

 

I'm falling into too much mental masturbation

[ShaktiMama]

 

I'm still trying to figure out the virtuous and examined life right now. Especially, the "examined", I'm hoping

that I can reduce the time of "mental masturbation" so that I can arrive to understanding and best wishes for

everybody (to include myself) as a conditioned reflex. After that, having a serious examination every half-dozen to dozen events be good to prevent laziness. I'm hoping to cut out the unproductive emotion, the recognition that there is a problem, and the time lag for mental masturbation to reach a conclusion. I'm just starting to have an inkling of an understanding what relative Bodhicitta is all about and how Relative Bodhicitta and Absolute Bodhicitta tie into each other, which is very promising.

 

I'm still in the beginning stages of the crawl phase of "crawl, walk, run".

 

Thank you for saying that the ego has to be retrained.

 

 

no problem, lino. Virtue i use as is discussed in chinese philosophy, medical daoism as inner power, integrity.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_(Chinese)

 

This could be a very long discussion. Much has been written about it.

 

What delights me about the Chinese concept of De or virtue is that it is tied to the health of the body, ie. virtue or inner power in an expression of healthy constitution and a by product of internal cultivation. It is not the christian morals viewpoint where it is a problem with your character or soul.

 

I find that very liberating in personal practice. For example, when the liver is tense with turbid chi it is indicative of rage and resentment. Using acupuncture, prescription qigong, herbs, energetic healing and diet it is possible to change one from the attitude of anger to one of compassion and gentleness.

 

When I first started working on my liver with a skilled doctor of acupuncture I would have dreams of murder and war and killing 24 hours after the treatment. This was the result of the pathological chi being released from my body. Now there is a remarkable lack of tension in my life years later and more gentleness than I could ever have thought possible.

 

What is so liberating is that lack of compassion, or gentleness or wisdom is a function of being out of balance energetically in the body, not a lack of morals or bad character. It is treatable by more that just being meditative or being yelled at .

 

It feels really good when we are naturally expressing virtue. The body is relaxed and happy.

 

These are pretty good pictures and explanations.

 

http://www.maywa.co.uk/the-five-organs/

 

"The unexamined life is not worth living" - Socrates

 

We are perfect in who we are inside but this meat suit that we use to interact with our world and neighbors has outdated programming that is left over from being a child. Part of that programming is what some call the ego. So we have to retrain or rewrite the program to function with more awareness in our world for our lives are not about survival.

 

It's our wetware that needs to be retrained or transformed. It is is alive so we don't kill it for we kill a part of ourselves if we do.

 

Were you there the night I was teaching the Ho'oponopono process? I might have missed seeing you because there was like 55 people there.

 

If not you can come to the next time we do it. I do not teach the process that is floating around the internet and on you tube so don't bother googling it. That's pretty watered down for it is not connected to any lineage. It is effective on a very surface level but it's like comparing a McDonalds hamburger to Kobe beef. It's for mass consumption.

 

This would certainly help you with your difficulties you express here. If you have taken the class just contact me off list and we can meet in Skype and I will go over it with you.

 

If you haven't taken that class from me it is open by donation to those who have taken KAP 1,2 and PSD. One really has to have a basic understanding of how the energetic universe works to get the greatest benefit. Those who don't seem to have difficulty grasping the effectiveness of this tool. Or as my native Hawaiian Kahuna friend and mentor who taught this to me 19 years ago said, "It's like putting an Uzi in the hands of a child." You can ask some of the other grads on the KAP forum who have instituted the process in their daily practice what this process has come to mean for them.

 

do not worry, lino. I know life has been hard for you but diligence on the path is always rewarded. It is just frustrating when it is not on our own demand schedule. We keep doing our practice...walking forward...one baby step at time if necessary. It's not a race. There is no where to go for you are already Home.

 

edit because it posted it self twice

Edited December 24, 2009 by ShaktiMama

[Mal]

it is the only way.

 

But the way that can be named is not the eternal way

 

I'm more of a many paths sort of guy, just take whatever path you enjoy and have fun on the journey.

[Dainin]

this is in direct contradiction with the essential teaching of:

-buddhist dharma

-yoga

-tao te ching

-many other systems

 

all these teach that we should not transform ourselves because our true nature is already perfect,

we are already free.

 

 

This statement does not sound accurate to me, at least in terms of Buddhism and yoga. Buddhism describes the necessity of following an eightfold path, and yoga eight limbs or stages to attain union. I won't bother listing them here. Transformation of various sorts is usually needed to make the realization that you describe above. But I'm glad that you have found your personal answer!

[lino]

no problem, lino. Virtue i use as is discussed in chinese philosophy, medical daoism as inner power, integrity.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_(Chinese)

 

This could be a very long discussion. Much has been written about it.

 

What delights me about the Chinese concept of De or virtue is that it is tied to the health of the body, ie. virtue or inner power in an expression of healthy constitution and a by product of internal cultivation. It is not the christian morals viewpoint where it is a problem with your character or soul.

 

I find that very liberating in personal practice. For example, when the liver is tense with turbid chi it is indicative of rage and resentment. Using acupuncture, prescription qigong, herbs, energetic healing and diet it is possible to change one from the attitude of anger to one of compassion and gentleness.

 

When I first started working on my liver with a skilled doctor of acupuncture I would have dreams of murder and war and killing 24 hours after the treatment. This was the result of the pathological chi being released from my body. Now there is a remarkable lack of tension in my life years later and more gentleness than I could ever have thought possible.

 

What is so liberating is that lack of compassion, or gentleness or wisdom is a function of being out of balance energetically in the body, not a lack of morals or bad character. It is treatable by more that just being meditative or being yelled at .

 

It feels really good when we are naturally expressing virtue. The body is relaxed and happy.

 

These are pretty good pictures and explanations.

 

http://www.maywa.co.uk/the-five-organs/

 

"The unexamined life is not worth living" - Socrates

 

We are perfect in who we are inside but this meat suit that we use to interact with our world and neighbors has outdated programming that is left over from being a child. Part of that programming is what some call the ego. So we have to retrain or rewrite the program to function with more awareness in our world for our lives are not about survival.

 

It's our wetware that needs to be retrained or transformed. It is is alive so we don't kill it for we kill a part of ourselves if we do.

 

Were you there the night I was teaching the Ho'oponopono process? I might have missed seeing you because there was like 55 people there.

 

If not you can come to the next time we do it. I do not teach the process that is floating around the internet and on you tube so don't bother googling it. That's pretty watered down for it is not connected to any lineage. It is effective on a very surface level but it's like comparing a McDonalds hamburger to Kobe beef. It's for mass consumption.

 

This would certainly help you with your difficulties you express here. If you have taken the class just contact me off list and we can meet in Skype and I will go over it with you.

 

If you haven't taken that class from me it is open by donation to those who have taken KAP 1,2 and PSD. One really has to have a basic understanding of how the energetic universe works to get the greatest benefit. Those who don't seem to have difficulty grasping the effectiveness of this tool. Or as my native Hawaiian Kahuna friend and mentor who taught this to me 19 years ago said, "It's like putting an Uzi in the hands of a child." You can ask some of the other grads on the KAP forum who have instituted the process in their daily practice what this process has come to mean for them.

 

do not worry, lino. I know life has been hard for you but diligence on the path is always rewarded. It is just frustrating when it is not on our own demand schedule. We keep doing our practice...walking forward...one baby step at time if necessary. It's not a race. There is no where to go for you are already Home.

 

edit because it posted it self twice

 

It is getting easier and faster. I haven't taken 2 or PSD. I've started to work on some entry level core practices. Kind of pre-KAP. I'm in an accumulation/preparation stage.

 

Through the wisdom of somebody that is close, I got dropped away from Heaven in order to see Heaven.

I'm grateful because I wouldn't have been able to see Heaven if I was already there. It had to happen because I wanted to die.

[lino]

 

this is in direct contradiction with the essential teaching of:

-buddhist dharma

-yoga

-tao te ching

-many other systems

 

all these teach that we should not transform ourselves because our true nature is already perfect,

we are already free.

 

 

If that is what you are happy with then good luck.

 

What I mean by happy is kept an UNINTERRUPTED sense of happiness from the time that you interpreted

that. That is the ONLY WAY that you know if that is true.

 

Best Wishes

[lino]

 

when one purifies his mind,

all of the latent inner energies such as kundalini start to awaken automatically.[/b]

 

why you and santi do not emphasize these important core truths is beyond me.

everytime i read your posts it seems like your always suggesting in a subtle way that K.A.P. will liberate people?

 

this is impossible, because like i said: the problem begins in the mind and it is to be ended in the mind.

this is the reason why i have been replying to your posts, because not even the strongest physically energetic body brings one closer to the godhead/tao.

 

to become closer to the godhead/tao, one must purify the mind...

it is the only way.

on the other hand, i can clearly see your intentions toward people are good

and i sincerely hope you and santi, and every being who is around you both, will have good luck and happiness in life.

 

i promise this was my last post on this matter,

and i will now stay off your backs forever.

 

with love,

zazaza

 

If you look deeply into the 10 fetters and Five Elements Theory you find out that maybe there is no

real distinction in between the body and mind. From the neck down, the body is one HUGE memory

bank.

As far as strongest physically energetic body, Shakyamuni was noted for a "golden hue".

 

Good luck

[everseeking]

[Vajrasattva]

no problem, lino. Virtue i use as is discussed in chinese philosophy, medical daoism as inner power, integrity.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_(Chinese)

 

This could be a very long discussion. Much has been written about it.

 

What delights me about the Chinese concept of De or virtue is that it is tied to the health of the body, ie. virtue or inner power in an expression of healthy constitution and a by product of internal cultivation. It is not the christian morals viewpoint where it is a problem with your character or soul.

 

I find that very liberating in personal practice. For example, when the liver is tense with turbid chi it is indicative of rage and resentment. Using acupuncture, prescription qigong, herbs, energetic healing and diet it is possible to change one from the attitude of anger to one of compassion and gentleness.

 

When I first started working on my liver with a skilled doctor of acupuncture I would have dreams of murder and war and killing 24 hours after the treatment. This was the result of the pathological chi being released from my body. Now there is a remarkable lack of tension in my life years later and more gentleness than I could ever have thought possible.

 

What is so liberating is that lack of compassion, or gentleness or wisdom is a function of being out of balance energetically in the body, not a lack of morals or bad character. It is treatable by more that just being meditative or being yelled at .

 

It feels really good when we are naturally expressing virtue. The body is relaxed and happy.

 

These are pretty good pictures and explanations.

 

http://www.maywa.co.uk/the-five-organs/

 

"The unexamined life is not worth living" - Socrates

 

We are perfect in who we are inside but this meat suit that we use to interact with our world and neighbors has outdated programming that is left over from being a child. Part of that programming is what some call the ego. So we have to retrain or rewrite the program to function with more awareness in our world for our lives are not about survival.

 

It's our wetware that needs to be retrained or transformed. It is is alive so we don't kill it for we kill a part of ourselves if we do.

 

Were you there the night I was teaching the Ho'oponopono process? I might have missed seeing you because there was like 55 people there.

 

If not you can come to the next time we do it. I do not teach the process that is floating around the internet and on you tube so don't bother googling it. That's pretty watered down for it is not connected to any lineage. It is effective on a very surface level but it's like comparing a McDonalds hamburger to Kobe beef. It's for mass consumption.

 

This would certainly help you with your difficulties you express here. If you have taken the class just contact me off list and we can meet in Skype and I will go over it with you.

 

If you haven't taken that class from me it is open by donation to those who have taken KAP 1,2 and PSD. One really has to have a basic understanding of how the energetic universe works to get the greatest benefit. Those who don't seem to have difficulty grasping the effectiveness of this tool. Or as my native Hawaiian Kahuna friend and mentor who taught this to me 19 years ago said, "It's like putting an Uzi in the hands of a child." You can ask some of the other grads on the KAP forum who have instituted the process in their daily practice what this process has come to mean for them.

 

do not worry, lino. I know life has been hard for you but diligence on the path is always rewarded. It is just frustrating when it is not on our own demand schedule. We keep doing our practice...walking forward...one baby step at time if necessary. It's not a race. There is no where to go for you are already Home.

 

edit because it posted it self twice

 

 

 

Susan,

 

Lino is a goodman & student & Friend. Please take care of him he has a heart of gold. And has been through a lot.

 

Best wishes

 

santi

[lino]

Susan,

 

Lino is a goodman & student & Friend. Please take care of him he has a heart of gold. And has been through a lot.

 

Best wishes

 

santi

 

 

Gimme me a while. I need to strip off the layers to get there.

 

Thank you.

 

 

Mandala out to you

Edited December 24, 2009 by lino

[Vajrasattva]

[voidisyinyang]

Santiago what about this from the Abandoned Baby Center website -- Feed the Children RUNS the Abandoned Baby Center:

 

Q. May I donate items to the Abandoned Baby Center?

 

A. Feed The Children is grateful for the compassion that motivates people who want to give baby blankets, bottles and other items to the Abandoned Baby Center (ABC). Unfortunately, the high cost of shipping and custom duties makes sending items very expensive. If you would like to donate items, we encourage you to consider sending a check for the item's value. By buying items locally, we support families in Kenya and save on transport costs.

 

Feed the Children: Abandoned Baby Center

Provides crisis care for abandoned babies and children on the outskirts of Nairobi, Kenya in Africa. Features a medical center, playrooms, ...

www.feedthechildren.org/tab_abc

 

Yeah its funny i felt shakti drawn more to Abandoned baby fund than FTC. I never liked or felt FTC. Islamic Relief.com is solid charity.

 

FTC didnt get any of the money.

Edited December 24, 2009 by drewhempel