Am I doing the Standing Meditation Correctly?

[Gerard]

...Is Standing Meditation better than sitting? Or is it totally different systems?

 

Different but not totally, standing med. (and walking too inlcuding any IMA work) is more aggressive, it will accelerate your practice.

 

 

 

Does this experience, sound like I'm doing the Standing Meditation Correctly?

 

1. My left leg started getting hot

 

Stomach (fire "fu" organ) Channel releasing crap from living in modern society + karma related

 

2. My right arm started producing heat

 

Pericardium and heart are fire "zang" organs and also ZZ released crap from them

 

5 min in Standing Meditation 2 1/2 min 2 times in the same day.

I also did a cool down massage.

 

Please, let me know. Thank you so much!

 

 

Hmm...take it easy, I know nothing about you...so I suggest you visiting a good TCM doc for a general check-up to see the extent of your internal blockages. He should perform a pulse diagnosis on you otherwise go elsewhere for proper treatment.

[Iskote]

Does this experience, sound like I'm doing the Standing Meditation Correctly?

1. My left leg started getting hot

2. My right arm started producing heat

5 min in Standing Meditation 2 1/2 min 2 times in the same day.

I also did a cool down massage.

Please, let me know. Thank you so much!

Hi Leon. You may feel various kinds of sensations when doing standing meditation or when practicing

other types of qigong as well. This is normal and is nothing to worry about. Such sensations

can give us some feedback that something is going on, but one should try not to focus on the sensations,

as focusing on them will disrupt our practice. Over time it is possible that all kinds of sensations will come and go. Some people feel all kinds of sensations while other people do not feel anything much unusual at all.

One's progress is not dependent on sensations, so whether one feels sensations or not, one should

just relax and continue with their practice.

 

Regarding the practice, as you have probably noticed, people will often say conflicting things about

what one should and shouldn't do in standing meditation or in qigong in general. As I have

mentioned previously one really just needs to stand in any of the standing postures described

previously and relax the mind and body as much as one is able. In my experience there is no need to

use any visualization, or special focus, or music, or anything else other than just standing and relaxing your

mind and body as much as you can. If you are relaxing your mind and body such things are really

not necessary. You will be able to relax more and more over time with regular practice. You may feel various

sensations that come and go. There is no need to focus on them or anything else, although one can keep a passive awareness of the lower dantian area while practicing, but do not focus strongly on it or on any other point or sensation that may arise. The idea here is passive awareness. You are aware, but not focusing

on anything in particular. Try to remain as relaxed and natural as you can. That's it.

 

People always want to add other things such as visualization, special breathing, special concentration, etc.,

because many people have the idea, especially in the West, that something that is more complicated

or intricate must be better. In my view, adding of other things to the practice are actually really not necessary

at all and in some cases could actually be a hindrance or could potentially lead to problems, such as the case where people are trying to strongly focus on certain points or centers, or deliberately trying to direct or lead

energy with the idea that they need to do so in order to open certain centers or channels, etc. Again, in my

view this is not necessary at all, and could lead to problems or imbalances. The wuji standing posture is

already such that it will allow/promote cultivation and free circulation and balancing of one's energy in

a very natural and healthy way. Energy centers and channels and what not will start opening on their own

and balancing naturally without any special concentration or mental direction, if one just relaxes and practices regularly.

 

So why add other things to a system that is already complete and balanced and allows progress to

occur naturally? Perhaps some people feel the need to add extra things to the practice because

they just can't wrap their heads around the idea that by relaxing and 'doing nothing' that much can

be accomplished. Surely if one adds visualizations, special breathing, or special concentrations, etc.,

it will be better?... Well, in my experience I would say no, it is not better at all. IMO, if one could practice

the wuji standing posture daily for at least 15 to 20 minutes a day, one can already potentailly go quite

far in their practice; and if over time one can slowly and naturally increase their overall practice time, one will

continue to progress further and further. IMO, this is a secret that many qigong teachers may not want their

students to know, as it is hard to continue making money off students if they really only need to learn one simple posture and be given some basic guidelines on how to practice for them to already have the

means to be able to go a long way in their practice.

 

It is good to have a teacher available in case one has questions regarding their practice or experiences and the like, but I do think one can potentialy make good progress by just practicing on their own regularly, as long as they maintain the basic principles of keeping the practice and breathing natural and relaxed and they do not try to consciously intervene in what is going on in the practice; i.e., one just keeps a passive, relaxed awareness and does not try to focus strongly on any points or centers, or try to consciously direct the energy. Depending on one's previous experience, it may be necessary to get guidance and assistance from a teacher

at the beginning, and from time to time, to help correct/check one's posture and to get reassurance that one is progressing in a good way, and some teachers may even be able to assist in other ways to help

with one's progress, but once one understands the basic posture and principles I think it is really

just a matter of keeping up regular practice. Again, that's all just my view, based on my own

personal experience. I have no doubt that others may and will disagree. We each have to make our own

decisions and way based on what feels right to us at the time.

 

Best wishes...

Edited December 10, 2009 by Iskote

[DalTheJigsaw123]

Hi Leon. You may feel various kinds of sensations when doing standing meditation or when practicing

other types of qigong as well. This is normal and is nothing to worry about. Such sensations

can give us some feedback that something is going on, but one should try not to focus on the sensations,

as focusing on them will disrupt our practice. Over time it is possible that all kinds of sensations will come and go. Some people feel all kinds of sensations while other people do not feel anything much unusual at all.

One's progress is not dependent on sensations, so whether one feels sensations or not, one should

just relax and continue with their practice.

 

Regarding the practice, as you have probably noticed, people will often say conflicting things about

what one should and shouldn't do in standing meditation or in qigong in general. As I have

mentioned previously one really just needs to stand in any of the standing postures described

previously and relax the mind and body as much as one is able. In my experience there is no need to

use any visualization, or special focus, or music, or anything else other than just standing and relaxing your

mind and body as much as you can. If you are relaxing your mind and body such things are really

not necessary. You will be able to relax more and more over time with regular practice. You may feel various

sensations that come and go. There is no need to focus on them or anything else, although one can keep a passive awareness of the lower dantian area while practicing, but do not focus strongly on it or on any other point or sensation that may arise. The idea here is passive awareness. You are aware, but not focusing

on anything in particular. Try to remain as relaxed and natural as you can. That's it.

 

People always want to add other things such as visualization, special breathing, special concentration, etc.,

because many people have the idea, especially in the West, that something that is more complicated

or intricate must be better. In my view, adding of other things to the practice are actually really not necessary

at all and in some cases could actually be a hindrance or could potentially lead to problems, such as the case where people are trying to strongly focus on certain points or centers, or deliberately trying to direct or lead

energy with the idea that they need to do so in order to open certain centers or channels, etc. Again, in my

view this is not necessary at all, and could lead to problems or imbalances. The wuji standing posture is

already such that it will allow/promote cultivation and free circulation and balancing of one's energy in

a very natural and healthy way. Energy centers and channels and what not will start opening on their own

and balancing naturally without any special concentration or mental direction, if one just relaxes and practices regularly.

 

So why add other things to a system that is already complete and balanced and allows progress to

occur naturally? Perhaps some people feel the need to add extra things to the practice because

they just can't wrap their heads around the idea that by relaxing and 'doing nothing' that much can

be accomplished. Surely if one adds visualizations, special breathing, or special concentrations, etc.,

it will be better?... Well, in my experience I would say no, it is not better at all. IMO, if one could practice

the wuji standing posture daily for at least 15 to 20 minutes a day, one can already potentailly go quite

far in their practice; and if over time one can slowly and naturally increase their overall practice time, one will

continue to progress further and further. IMO, this is a secret that many qigong teachers may not want their

students to know, as it is hard to continue making money off students if they really only need to learn one simple posture and be given some basic guidelines on how to practice for them to already have the

means to be able to go a long way in their practice.

 

It is good to have a teacher available in case one has questions regarding their practice or experiences and the like, but I do think one can potentialy make good progress by just practicing on their own regularly, as long as they maintain the basic principles of keeping the practice and breathing natural and relaxed and they do not try to consciously intervene in what is going on in the practice; i.e., one just keeps a passive, relaxed awareness and does not try to focus strongly on any points or centers, or try to consciously direct the energy. Depending on one's previous experience, it may be necessary to get guidance and assistance from a teacher

at the beginning, and from time to time, to help correct/check one's posture and to get reassurance that one is progressing in a good way, and some teachers may even be able to assist in other ways to help

with one's progress, but once one understands the basic posture and principles I think it is really

just a matter of keeping up regular practice. Again, that's all just my view, based on my own

personal experience. I have no doubt that others may and will disagree. We each have to make our own

decisions and way based on what feels right to us at the time.

 

Best wishes...

 

 

Wow, thank you so much!

That was very helpful.

 

P.S. thank you all the others who commented.

Seems like simplicity is always the best way to go.

Mindlessness and breathing seem to come up regularly.

Thank you all once again!

I will be trying this again.

[DalTheJigsaw123]

I just did Standing Meditation and this is the results:

 

First attempt at Standing Meditation:

 

The first 4 1/2 min I had both of my right/left arms burning, felt like fire/energy flowing throughout my body.

My right/left leg was also burning; especially my feet.

 

Second Attempt at Standing Meditation:

 

I did it for 5 min this time and this is what happened:

 

My right/left arm burned even more, but this time they started to get sweaty.

My right/left leg was burning too, but this time it moved into my thighs as well.

I continued breathing and focusing on my breath.

I was relaxed.

My body felt relaxed and light.

I closed my eyes the second time and I looked and felt like I saw energy flowing through my fingers.

Maybe not, but it sure felt like it was.

Like seeing the hidden energy many books/people/masters and others speak about.

 

Notes:

 

As I am typing this, my hands are still sweaty.

I did use music for the first time, but second time I did not. (Music I used first time: Chakra 7 - The purple crown: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53ATkR0WBjU...eature=related)

This is my fifth time this week doing Standing Meditation

Edited December 10, 2009 by LeonBasin

[Zenshiite]

Maybe it's just me, but you're just starting out and you're doing it for short periods of time... to me this sounds more like your body is getting acquainted with the physical aspect of the practice than you're necessarily getting tons of qi feedback.

 

Don't focus so much on sensations right now. You don't want to start assuming you're making leaps and bounds in your practice when you've just started it. Just keep doing it.

[DalTheJigsaw123]

Maybe it's just me, but you're just starting out and you're doing it for short periods of time... to me this sounds more like your body is getting acquainted with the physical aspect of the practice than you're necessarily getting tons of qi feedback.

 

Don't focus so much on sensations right now. You don't want to start assuming you're making leaps and bounds in your practice when you've just started it. Just keep doing it.

 

 

Understand. Thank you!

[soaring crane]

Hi,

 

this is a really nice thread with a a lot of generous insights and info, and some great links, too. I've gotten quite a few new ideas to try... does the search ever end?

 

Anyway...

 

There's one thing I'd like to add from my own experience and that's this: don't willfully "bend the knees" as a step in assuming the mabu posture. Rather, leave the knees (and ankles) dynamic and loose, and practice that pelvic tilt as described in the video. Let that pelvic motion guide the degree to which the knees bend. When you tip the pelvic basin to the rear (he says like a dog tucking in its tail, which is pretty good. I use the a little sailboat imagery), the knees will give all on their own, they'll bend just the right amount. Maintaining an upright torso, your center of gravity will tend to either move from the balls of the feet to the middle, or perhaps a little further back to heels, somewhat. When you "untilt" the pelvis, you'll tend to raise a bit and the COG will shift a little forward.

 

Tip: practice that tilt. There's a good chance that you think you're doing it right but you're not. It's a lot easier to "feel" into it if you use an extra wide stance with the toes pointing outward, go extra deep into the knee bend, but maintain an upright torso, like the Gongfu stance (the Shaolin tea break), just as an exercise to help "activate" the movement and commit it to memory. Don't be over-eager. Practice pelvic rotation, too. Tip the basin to the front, the back, and to the sides as well.

 

These days, my standing meditations start with the hands at the lower Dantian level but I allow them to rise on their own when they want. I start with relaxed shoulders, open shoulder blades, long, hanging arms and palms turned toward the lower Dantian. The rear-tipped basin (opens mingmen), Baihui brought to the middle (make sure the chin gets tucked inward, opening Dazhui and the neck vertebrae). I breathe through Dantian. After a few minutes, the "ball" will grow, the arms open accordingly, can get quite wide, and float upward toward the middle Dantian area. They stay there until the meditation has run its course (10 minutes? I'm not into the 30+ minutes stuff anymore) and then they sink.

 

I find it better without music. Music tends to warp time. Practice in real time. If real time seems to move too slowly, then practice shorter at first until the "two clocks" (the one on the wall and your perception of how long it should "feel") merge and 10 minutes feels like 10 minutes, or 15 or 50...

 

Relax the face, very important. The face is a mirror of everything that's going on everywhere else in the body and in the mind. You can affect them both positively by keeping the facial expression peaceful. And push the corners of that mouth upward slighty, smile

 

Try to avoid the temptation to analyze sensations. Don't put them in boxes. Boxes tend to get stuck, they're not very aerodynamic. Observe the sensations, accept them, and let them go their own route.

 

And there are sooooo many more things involved in doing this "simple" exercise... Everything I just wrote may seem all wrong to me ten years from now. I know I did things ten years ago that I wouldn't consider doing today, lol.

[Old Man Contradiction]

Relax the face, very important. The face is a mirror of everything that's going on everywhere else in the body and in the mind. You can affect them both positively by keeping the facial expression peaceful. And push the corners of that mouth upward slighty, smile

 

As I believe Wang Yu Fang has roughly said,"smile when you stand and that smile will radiate through out your life", ... or something similar to that.

[DalTheJigsaw123]

Hi,

 

this is a really nice thread with a a lot of generous insights and info, and some great links, too. I've gotten quite a few new ideas to try... does the search ever end?

 

Anyway...

 

There's one thing I'd like to add from my own experience and that's this: don't willfully "bend the knees" as a step in assuming the mabu posture. Rather, leave the knees (and ankles) dynamic and loose, and practice that pelvic tilt as described in the video. Let that pelvic motion guide the degree to which the knees bend. When you tip the pelvic basin to the rear (he says like a dog tucking in its tail, which is pretty good. I use the a little sailboat imagery), the knees will give all on their own, they'll bend just the right amount. Maintaining an upright torso, your center of gravity will tend to either move from the balls of the feet to the middle, or perhaps a little further back to heels, somewhat. When you "untilt" the pelvis, you'll tend to raise a bit and the COG will shift a little forward.

 

Tip: practice that tilt. There's a good chance that you think you're doing it right but you're not. It's a lot easier to "feel" into it if you use an extra wide stance with the toes pointing outward, go extra deep into the knee bend, but maintain an upright torso, like the Gongfu stance (the Shaolin tea break), just as an exercise to help "activate" the movement and commit it to memory. Don't be over-eager. Practice pelvic rotation, too. Tip the basin to the front, the back, and to the sides as well.

 

These days, my standing meditations start with the hands at the lower Dantian level but I allow them to rise on their own when they want. I start with relaxed shoulders, open shoulder blades, long, hanging arms and palms turned toward the lower Dantian. The rear-tipped basin (opens mingmen), Baihui brought to the middle (make sure the chin gets tucked inward, opening Dazhui and the neck vertebrae). I breathe through Dantian. After a few minutes, the "ball" will grow, the arms open accordingly, can get quite wide, and float upward toward the middle Dantian area. They stay there until the meditation has run its course (10 minutes? I'm not into the 30+ minutes stuff anymore) and then they sink.

 

I find it better without music. Music tends to warp time. Practice in real time. If real time seems to move too slowly, then practice shorter at first until the "two clocks" (the one on the wall and your perception of how long it should "feel") merge and 10 minutes feels like 10 minutes, or 15 or 50...

 

Relax the face, very important. The face is a mirror of everything that's going on everywhere else in the body and in the mind. You can affect them both positively by keeping the facial expression peaceful. And push the corners of that mouth upward slighty, smile

 

Try to avoid the temptation to analyze sensations. Don't put them in boxes. Boxes tend to get stuck, they're not very aerodynamic. Observe the sensations, accept them, and let them go their own route.

 

And there are sooooo many more things involved in doing this "simple" exercise... Everything I just wrote may seem all wrong to me ten years from now. I know I did things ten years ago that I wouldn't consider doing today, lol.

]

 

That was quite helpful!

Thank you!

I will try this out and let you know.

[soaring crane]

]

 

That was quite helpful!

Thank you!

I will try this out and let you know.

 

Hi Leon,

 

it really would be good if you would report back on your progress, please do

 

That pelvic tilt is truly the place where most people get hung up. The other is the connecting the breath to the body. I first learned to stand truly like a pillar - a rigid stone column - but I don't want to be stone, I'd prefer to be a little blade of grass or a young birch sapling, something alive and full of potential. They dont resist environmental factors, they bend with the wind, and I allow myself to bend and flow as well.

 

While standing, because I've practiced this for so long it's become automatic, it's even active now as I sit on the sofa and type, an inhalation signals a light upward motion and an exhale shifts the focus to the earth, and I sink a bit.

 

That came initially from hours and hours of practicing the basin exercise, and opening and closing the groin kuas regions, and mingmen. I don't supress that when doing standing meditations, why should I supress a natural phenomenon?

 

I've yet to see any beginner do this without struggle and stress. They have to think about it all, the whole time. They have to keep all the small elements of the practice under control, and there are quite a few elements that haven't been mentioned here yet. And that stress, the overabundance of thought, tend to negate the meditation's positive effects ... whoops, gotta run, I was going to write out my litlte sailboat meditation... L8R

[DalTheJigsaw123]

Hi Leon,

 

it really would be good if you would report back on your progress, please do

 

That pelvic tilt is truly the place where most people get hung up. The other is the connecting the breath to the body. I first learned to stand truly like a pillar - a rigid stone column - but I don't want to be stone, I'd prefer to be a little blade of grass or a young birch sapling, something alive and full of potential. They dont resist environmental factors, they bend with the wind, and I allow myself to bend and flow as well.

 

While standing, because I've practiced this for so long it's become automatic, it's even active now as I sit on the sofa and type, an inhalation signals a light upward motion and an exhale shifts the focus to the earth, and I sink a bit.

 

That came initially from hours and hours of practicing the basin exercise, and opening and closing the groin kuas regions, and mingmen. I don't supress that when doing standing meditations, why should I supress a natural phenomenon?

 

I've yet to see any beginner do this without struggle and stress. They have to think about it all, the whole time. They have to keep all the small elements of the practice under control, and there are quite a few elements that haven't been mentioned here yet. And that stress, the overabundance of thought, tend to negate the meditation's positive effects ... whoops, gotta run, I was going to write out my litlte sailboat meditation... L8R

 

Here is another result:

 

Day 6. 12.11.2009

 

Another Standing Meditation Results:

 

I stood in Standing Meditation for 10 min.

However, for the first 3 min I was moving around and fidgeting.

I could not hold it still.

My back was aching and my mind was racing all around.

For the last 7 min, I calmed down a bit and held it loose, but kept my body positioned correctly.

My hands were starting to hurt, no burning sensation this time.

Nevertheless, I did get a lot of sweat on my back.

After 10 min; or more like 7 min.

[Iskote]

Here is another result:

Day 6. 12.11.2009

Another Standing Meditation Results:

I stood in Standing Meditation for 10 min.

However, for the first 3 min I was moving around and fidgeting.

I could not hold it still.

My back was aching and my mind was racing all around.

For the last 7 min, I calmed down a bit and held it loose, but kept my body positioned correctly.

My hands were starting to hurt, no burning sensation this time.

Nevertheless, I did get a lot of sweat on my back.

After 10 min; or more like 7 min.

 

 

Hi Leon. Which standing posture are you doing?

A few more thoughts. You only need to bend the knees just a little to start, i.e., just letting them out

maybe an inch or two from the fully locked in position is good enough. Once you get comfortable with

that position you can maybe let the knees out a little bit more if you want, but do not extend the knees

beyond the tips of the toes. I have found that just letting out the kness a little bit is already quite adequate

for getting good results. Also no need to push yourself beyond minor discomfort. If it feels too uncomfortable,

you can always stop and do some more later. If it is just somewhat uncomfortable then that is OK, as it takes

some time for your body to get used to the posture.

 

If you were to ever start feeling effects that are somewhat more than small discomfort then you might

want to consider consulting with an experienced teacher or other experienced practitioners. You should

not ever have any overt ill effects from doing the practice other than minor discomforts and aches and the

like as your body gets used to the standing. These minor discomforts can come and go as your body

opens up more and goes through different 'stages'. Overt ill effects however are not normal and

likely indicate that one is practicing wrong in some way. If you remind yourself often to keep it relaxed

and natural, and don't focus on sensations or effects and keep the mind relaxed and passive as best you

can, I think it is much less likely that you would ever experience any bad effects. Anyway, you haven't

described anything so far that sounds problematic. If sometimes you are having problems settling your

mind, you can always stop for a while and try again later.

 

Best wishes...

[DalTheJigsaw123]

Hi Leon. Which standing posture are you doing?

A few more thoughts. You only need to bend the knees just a little to start, i.e., just letting them out

maybe an inch or two from the fully locked in position is good enough. Once you get comfortable with

that position you can maybe let the knees out a little bit more if you want, but do not extend the knees

beyond the tips of the toes. I have found that just letting out the kness a little bit is already quite adequate

for getting good results. Also no need to push yourself beyond minor discomfort. If it feels too uncomfortable,

you can always stop and do some more later. If it is just somewhat uncomfortable then that is OK, as it takes

some time for your body to get used to the posture.

 

If you were to ever start feeling effects that are somewhat more than small discomfort then you might

want to consider consulting with an experienced teacher or other experienced practitioners. You should

not ever have any overt ill effects from doing the practice other than minor discomforts and aches and the

like as your body gets used to the standing. These minor discomforts can come and go as your body

opens up more and goes through different 'stages'. Overt ill effects however are not normal and

likely indicate that one is practicing wrong in some way. If you remind yourself often to keep it relaxed

and natural, and don't focus on sensations or effects and keep the mind relaxed and passive as best you

can, I think it is much less likely that you would ever experience any bad effects. Anyway, you haven't

described anything so far that sounds problematic. If sometimes you are having problems settling your

mind, you can always stop for a while and try again later.

 

Best wishes...

 

 

Thank you!

I have been doing the Tree posture.

Yea, I mean nothing hurts so far.

I have been doing Standing Meditation for 1 week now.

Things seem to be getting better.

I'm trying to focus on breathing or on mindlessness.

Is that a good idea?

Basically, using the sitting posture meditation

And

Adapting it to my Standing Meditation.

[Iskote]

Thank you!

I have been doing the Tree posture.

Yea, I mean nothing hurts so far.

I have been doing Standing Meditation for 1 week now.

Things seem to be getting better.

I'm trying to focus on breathing or on mindlessness.

Is that a good idea?

Basically, using the sitting posture meditation

And

Adapting it to my Standing Meditation.

Hi Leon. In my experience you don't have to deliberately try to maintain a blank mind or

anything like that. That's probably not possible for most people anyway.

Just relax and if your mind starts to wander off into a daydream or the like, just gently

pull it back to just keeping passively aware of what you are doing. If you find it hard to just

stand and relax, some people use the technique of counting breaths (you can count in breaths or out breaths),

up to 10 or maybe 100, and then start over. This may help to keep the mind from wandering too

much if a person finds it hard to just relax and stay passively aware. Hope that helps...

 

Best wishes...

Edited December 14, 2009 by Iskote

[DalTheJigsaw123]

Hi Leon. In my experience you don't have to deliberately try to maintain a blank mind or

anything like that. That's probably not possible for most people anyway.

Just relax and if your mind starts to wander off into a daydream or the like, just gently

pull it back to just keeping passively aware of what you are doing. If you find it hard to just

stand and relax, some people use the technique of counting breaths (you can count in breaths or out breaths),

up to 10 or maybe 100, and then start over. This may help to keep the mind from wandering too

much if a person finds it hard to just relax and stay passively aware. Hope that helps...

 

Best wishes...

 

That helps a lot!

I started doing exactly that.

I was wondering if that was against what I'm supposed to be doing.

But you made it clear that it isn't.

I Thank You my brother!

[Encephalon]

Thank you!

I have been doing the Tree posture.

Yea, I mean nothing hurts so far.

I have been doing Standing Meditation for 1 week now.

Things seem to be getting better.

I'm trying to focus on breathing or on mindlessness.

Is that a good idea?

Basically, using the sitting posture meditation

And

Adapting it to my Standing Meditation.

 

Squirt a little of this stuff on each shoulder before your Embrace Tree. This is one of the few topical analgesics that actually performs as indicated.

 

http://www.hsusa.net/product_info.php?products_id=135

 

Die Da Yao Jiu

[DalTheJigsaw123]

Squirt a little of this stuff on each shoulder before your Embrace Tree. This is one of the few topical analgesics that actually performs as indicated.

 

http://www.hsusa.net/product_info.php?products_id=135

 

Die Da Yao Jiu

 

Wow, that sounds interesting. Thanks!