Flying Phoenix Chi Kung

[zen-bear]

[Spirit Ape]

Haha I use the Crowely deck for tarot!

[Sahaj Nath]

well, it would take me a week to respond to all of this, so that kind of sucks, because there's much here that i would like to address.

 

first of all, thank you for responding. as i said initially, i meant no disrespect in my question. but often i come across far more confrontational than i intend.

 

as for my background, i'll stick to what's relevant with respect to Thelema. David Allen Hulse & his wife (at the time) were my first teachers in the western esoteric traditions. he was a long-time friend and fraternal partner-in-crime of Grady McMurty (Hymenaeus Alpha). i associated with many members of the outer OTO, and then shortly after taking the minerval degree i was taken inside. much of my training and experience came from mentors whose anonymity & secrecy i continue to respect (even though i have little reverence for any of the orders and their wars). i've seen and done things among the AA that would lead most of the people on this board to cry B.S., but if what you've said here is true, you know at least some of where i've been just by the names i mentioned. and it may also help to know that my grandfather was a master mason of the purest order, and he was a casualty in the war. suffice to say that i know more than i'm supposed to, and i'm only moderately impressed.

 

 

Crowley also wrote this, and he meant it:

 

 

"do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law,

 

there is no god but man." --Liber Oz

 

 

you wrote so much here that it's a bit overwhelming to even attempt a response. i'm simply not gonna put in that much time and energy to do it justice. Ma'at forgive me. even trying to figure out what to respond to and what to leave out is somewhat daunting.

 

 

i don't in any way hold up Hannibal Lecter as the ideal of Thelema. i never stated that. but i think he was an example of what is permissible under the Thelemic umbrella. in this battle between red ants and black ants, the universe sides with the strong, period. HL would kill in gruesome fashion, and his heart rate wouldn't even increase. in that sense, his motivations were arguably pure. no fear, no resistance, no arbitrary boundaries to say "thus far, and no further." THAT is the way of the Aeon of Horus. you seemed to focus a bit too heavily on "Love is the Law," and didn't give enough consideration to "Love UNDER Will," which kabbalah mystics consider the greatest perversion and a veritable assault on heaven.

 

here's the remainder of Oz:

 

1. Man has the right to live by his own law—

to live in the way that he wills to do:

to work as he will:

to play as he will:

to rest as he will:

to die when and how he will.

2. Man has the right to eat what he will:

to drink what he will:

to dwell where he will:

to move as he will on the face of the earth.

3. Man has the right to think what he will:

to speak what he will:

to write what he will:

to draw, paint, carve, etch, mould, build as he will:

to dress as he will.

4. Man has the right to love as he will:—

"take your fill and will of love as ye will,

when, where, and with whom ye will." —AL. I. 51

5. Man has the right to kill those who would thwart these rights.

 

 

the outer order often tries to interpret #5 as the righteous redemption of the rest, a sort of "do unto others" type deal. but that's not the meaning as i have come to understand it. only those people, first with the knowledge to understand, and second with the strength and willingness to kill, can truly be free.

 

to quote another master mason:

 

"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." --Benjamin Franklin

 

 

materially, much of this is straight-forward. internally, this includes "kill the buddha." and they converge in the aspirant who lives out his or her purest and highest calling, sometimes resulting in a new spiritual leader, sometimes resulting in a musician, or a car mechanic, and sometimes resulting in a Hannibal Lecter type. many orders/traditions would say that right practice and proper guidance would never result in such a type, but Thelema would say that this ignores the fact that it DOES happen just the same, and i would argue that Thelema goes so far as to allow for it.

 

perhaps i should have gone with Keyser Söze as an example instead. oh well. *shrugs*

 

none of this is to say that Thelema is necessarily evil or wrong or any of those terms. just that notions of morality in this realm seldom matches up with the conventional view. and rules of conduct, mandated by a higher power, isn't in line with Thelema or many of the Hermetic brotherhoods. i'm just gonna leave it there.

 

thanks again for indulging me.

Edited March 20, 2010 by Hundun

[Pero]

I read that Crowley had a perverse sense of humour and he showed it in his books by purposefully writing incorrect instructions in some parts.

[Sahaj Nath]

I read that Crowley had a perverse sense of humour and he showed it in his books by purposefully writing incorrect instructions in some parts.

 

 

most of his humor came in the form of verbal puns and grammatical quibbles, so sort of. in some ways he was like the Derrida of magick and mysticism before Austin Spare came along.

 

that's my take, anyway.

Edited March 20, 2010 by Hundun

[Pero]

most of his humor came in the form of verbal puns and grammatical quibbles, so sort of. in some ways he was like the Derrida of magick and mysticism before Austin Spare came along.

 

What are grammatical quibbles? And who's Derrida?

[neiye]

What are grammatical quibbles? And who's Derrida?

 

Hi Pero,

 

From what I understand, grammatical quibbles is a way of putting the emphasis on language matters instead of dealing with the real issue which is outside the language realm.

Derrida was a French philosopher very popular among some North American's intellectuals because he gave them intellectual tool ( named "deconstruction") for thinking out of the box and going beyond conceptual/language oppositions. But the irony is that he was himself very very abstract and complicated in his writings.

 

Hope it helps,

Neiye

[Pero]

Thanks!

[Spirit Ape]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6_FnsrAWGg

 

This is pretty interesting about crowely...

 

enjoy

Spirit Ape

[zen-bear]

Haha I use the Crowely deck for tarot!

 

 

Thanks for sharing, Garry.

 

As I mentioned in my reply to Hunyun's posting, giving an account of Sifu John Davidson's introducing to me to the works of Crowley, it began with using Crowley's Tarot deck out of curiosity and on a cookbook level in the late 1970's. ("cookbook" being doing one of the most commonly prescribed card layouts and then looking up the "meaning" of each card in the little white booklet that came with the deck.) While I began to read excerpts from a few of Crowley's books, the only extent of my usage of his Tarot was doing a once-a-year New Year's spread to get (what I considered at the time due to my total inexperience) a "tongue-in-cheek" forecast for the new year. That's all i did for about almost 20 years, until I met my present spiritual mentor in the 90's. Everything changed when i began to see day-in and and day-out how my teacher used the Crowley deck.

 

At this point, I want to correct a slightly incorrect statement I made in the earlier posting stating that I have not channelled Crowley's spirit nor any of his spiritual allies. I will say that that is not totally true because it is obvious to me that if one is using Mr. Crowley's Tarot deck consistently and productively on any level, one is indeed tapping into Crowley's spiritual genius and partaking of the alchemic and artistic contributions of his two collaborators--who came together with Crowley to create this deck, even though they did not like each other very much. The 3 of them are represented on the 9 of disks, Gain.

 

I will offer this pointer to you since you have his deck--and to all who have the eyes, the mind and the will to do this: The more one meditates, and the more one visually memorizes every card in the Crowley tarot deck--i.e., become able to see each card in one's mind in exact detail and color--the more information that that particular Tarot will return to one. (Of course, if one had photographic memory, this would be a snap...but most of us don't and this is a long exercise.) This exercise of visually memorizing every card in the Crowley deck was my very first unofficial "assignment" when I began my apprenticeship. It was just suggested to me. But my spirit told me that this suggestion was something to be thoroughly acted upon. So I did. In relation to Chinese alchemic arts, it is akin to memorizing the image and general "judgment" of the 64 hexagrams of the I Ching and learning how they are progressively formed by the eight basic trigrams--Chien--creative heaven; Tui--Joyous Lake; Ken--tranquil mountain; Li-illuminating Fire; chen--arousing thunder; Sun--penetrating Wind; Kan--abysmal water; Kun--Receptive silence, the earth. [Does this sound familiar, Baguakind?]

--except with Crowley, there are 81 talismans to memorize.

[Baguakid]

So I did. In relation to Chinese alchemic arts, it is akin to memorizing the image and general "judgment" of the 64 hexagrams of the I Ching and learning how they are progressively formed by the eight basic trigrams--Chien--creative heaven; Tui--Joyous Lake; Ken--tranquil mountain; Li-illuminating Fire; chen--arousing thunder; Sun--penetrating Wind; Kan--abysmal water; Kun--Receptive silence, the earth. [Does this sound familiar, Baguakind?]

--except with Crowley, there are 81 talismans to memorize.

 

Hi Terry, I assume you meant "Baguakid"?

 

Unlike you all, I have been spiritually "directionless" for a very long time. I have had absolutely no affinity with Tarot, I Ching, or anyting else I've been presented with so far. The closest I've come across would be the readings of "Life and Teaching of the Masters of the Far East". Even then, the readings get "muddy" into the third and further books". I'm simple and I look for simple solutions. Laozi reportedly said, "my way is simple and easy". I'm still searching...

[zen-bear]

Hi Terry, I assume you meant "Baguakid"?

 

Unlike you all, I have been spiritually "directionless" for a very long time. I have had absolutely no affinity with Tarot, I Ching, or anyting else I've been presented with so far. The closest I've come across would be the readings of "Life and Teaching of the Masters of the Far East". Even then, the readings get "muddy" into the third and further books". I'm simple and I look for simple solutions. Laozi reportedly said, "my way is simple and easy". I'm still searching...

 

 

Yes, I meant you, Bakuakid (sorry for the typo):

 

And I alluded to you in my email to Sifu Garry Hearfield because the repeated progression of those six Trigrams of the I Ching (each representing a force in Nature) is an essential practice (recited over and over and over) in a particular style of Bakua Chuan that conforms to six arm techniques, six steps of Form practice.

 

whaddaya mean you are "directionless" for a long time? You cite Lao Tzu, and subscribe to taking "the simple and easy way" That's seriously Taoist!

[zen-bear]

Yes, I meant you, Bakuakid (sorry for the typo):

 

And I alluded to you in my email to Sifu Garry Hearfield because the repeated progression of those six Trigrams of the I Ching (each representing a force in Nature) is an essential practice (recited over and over and over) in a particular style of Bakua Chuan that conforms to six arm techniques, six steps of Form practice.

 

whaddaya mean you are "directionless" for a long time? You cite Lao Tzu, and subscribe to taking "the simple and easy way" That's seriously Taoist!

 

OOOPS--I MEAN 8--THAT'S EIGHT--TRIGRAMS (NOT 6). (I haven't fully awakened yet this morning! )

[Baguakid]

Yes, I meant you, Bakuakid (sorry for the typo):

 

And I alluded to you in my email to Sifu Garry Hearfield because the repeated progression of those six Trigrams of the I Ching (each representing a force in Nature) is an essential practice (recited over and over and over) in a particular style of Bakua Chuan that conforms to six arm techniques, six steps of Form practice.

 

whaddaya mean you are "directionless" for a long time? You cite Lao Tzu, and subscribe to taking "the simple and easy way" That's seriously Taoist!

 

 

Thanks for pointing that out.. I guess I mean I haven't gotten into the I Ching or other things like that. I have a couple translations, one by Hua Ching Ni, which I'm using to add height to one of my table lamps, <smile>. I guess I'm putting practice first to which I want to experience/realize the tao rather than read about it?

 

Perhaps later in my development it will make more sense to me.

 

I'm not even practicing forms right now. I'm practicing a standing exercise taught to me by this man:

 

http://www.youtube.com/user/baguabill#p/u/10/z-7X6QnnLH0

 

Which he called Embroynic standing. Later, when talking to Jarek Szymanski (www.chinafromtheinside.com) in Shanghai he revealed that this is a Taoist standing exercise.

 

And I practice the mother palm of my style of Bagua. I just haven't gotten into the I Ching in Bagua either.

 

Best,

 

Bill

[zen-bear]

I sat through and participated in a sun dar spirit boxing in the burbs outside of hongkong!

 

 

Sifu Garry,

 

Was this sun dar ritual indoors or outdoors?

Do you remember particular spiritual order was practicing? Taoist? Buddhist? or Taoist-Buddhist?

 

Interesting mojo, huh?

Did you witness sun dar possession of the nature I've described? -- where a guardian martial spirit inhabited a practitioner and demonstrated Kung-Fu?

 

Best,

 

Sifu Terry

 

p.s. Sorry for delay in reply, but as you probably read, I got distracted writing a long answer to the "Thelema" controversy, which unfortunately has absolutely nothing to do with this discussion thread about Flying PHoenix, Bok Fu Pai, and GM Doo Wai's arts.

[zen-bear]

Thanks for pointing that out.. I guess I mean I haven't gotten into the I Ching or other things like that. I have a couple translations, one by Hua Ching Ni, which I'm using to add height to one of my table lamps, <smile>. I guess I'm putting practice first to which I want to experience/realize the tao rather than read about it?

 

Perhaps later in my development it will make more sense to me.

 

I'm not even practicing forms right now. I'm practicing a standing exercise taught to me by this man:

 

http://www.youtube.com/user/baguabill#p/u/10/z-7X6QnnLH0

 

Which he called Embroynic standing. Later, when talking to Jarek Szymanski (www.chinafromtheinside.com) in Shanghai he revealed that this is a Taoist standing exercise.

 

And I practice the mother palm of my style of Bagua. I just haven't gotten into the I Ching in Bagua either.

 

Best,

 

Bill

 

 

 

Thanks for sharing the Taoist standing exercise called "Embryonic Standing" thru the link. That is very interesting qigong form (Small frame). But given the name, I knew what to look for and I "get" what theis form does...Master Zhu is very good. BFP and Flying Phoenix have a number of moving meditations that are done at that speed and which circulate energy in similar manner thru similar postures. We also go down to extremely flexible postures in our Qigong, but mostly use the "dragon drop" posture that's cousin to the "hurdler's stretch"/snake creeps down-like posture seen in your clip, only that both legs are folded in, symmetrically, and inside of both folded legs are touching the floor while seated (with heels pulled back alongside each hip/butt.)

 

One qigong form that I just recently decided to teach is one of the several "Preparatory Forms" of Eight Sections of Energy Combined, a martial qigong system. A great and agile form involving going into and out of the deep, "dragon drop" posture two times and coming up from it two times--with synchronized elegant, rolling hand movements. I may make a video of this and post a clip of it sometime in the near future.

 

If you decide to explore the I Ching, I would recommend using by far the most widely used text, the Wilhelm/Baynes translation, with intro by Carl Jung. Published in Switzerland. so you don't have to change the height of your table lamp!

 

btw, the original Taoist Sanctuary in Los Angeles, built around master Share K. Lew around 1970, originally sponsored Ni Hua Ching's immigration to the U.S. The Taoist Sanctuary was still forming when just starting TTP Kng Fu around 1974, and I remember the controvery that Master Ni created when he first settled in L.A. a couple of years later. He is quite a profilific translator. I am acquainted with his two sons, Mao-xing and Dao-xing, who are both acupuncturists and OMD's, who run Yosan Univ., a large TCM teaching and healing center. I've referred patients to them over the years; they've referred Tai Chi students to me, and they all hold Master Share K. Lew in highest respect as they witnessed early on his Taoist priestly ministrations.

 

happy explorations of Bagua, Baguakid!

 

Sifu Terry

Edited March 24, 2010 by zen-bear

[Spirit Ape]

Hi Sifu Terry,

 

What do you make of this clip?

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RzXLkfF01w4&feature=related

 

Sifu Garry

[Baguakid]

Thanks for sharing the Taoist standing exercise called "Embryonic Standing" thru the link. That is very interesting qigong form (Small frame). But given the name, I knew what to look for and I "get" what theis form does...Master Zhu is very good. BFP and Flying Phoenix have a number of moving meditations that are done at that speed and which circulate energy in similar manner thru similar postures. We also go down to extremely flexible postures in our Qigong, but mostly use the "dragon drop" posture that's cousin to the "hurdler's stretch"/snake creeps down-like posture seen in your clip, only that both legs are folded in, symmetrically, and inside of both folded legs are touching the floor while seated (with heels pulled back alongside each hip/butt.)

 

One qigong form that I just recently decided to teach is one of the several "Preparatory Forms" of Eight Sections of Energy Combined, a martial qigong system. A great and agile form involving going into and out of the deep, "dragon drop" posture two times and coming up from it two times--with synchronized elegant, rolling hand movements. I may make a video of this and post a clip of it sometime in the near future.

 

If you decide to explore the I Ching, I would recommend using by far the most widely used text, the Wilhelm/Baynes translation, with intro by Carl Jung. Published in Switzerland. so you don't have to change the height of your table lamp!

 

btw, the original Taoinst Sanctuary in Los Angeles, built around master Share K. Lew around 1970, originally sponsored Ni Hua Ching's immigration to the U.S. The Taoist Sanctuary was still forming when just starting TTP Kng Fu around 1974, and I remember the controvery that Master Ni created when he first settled in L.A. a couple of years later. He is quite a profilific translator. I know his two sons, Mao-xing and Dao-xing, who are both acupuncturists and DCM's, who run Yosan Univ., a large TCM teaching and healing center. I've referred patients to them over the years; they've referred Tai Chi students to me, and they all hold Master Share K. Lew in highest respect as they witnessed early on his Taoist priestly ministrations.

 

happy explorations of Bagua, Baguakid!

 

Sifu Terry

 

 

Dear Terry,

 

It's very interesting that you "get" what that form is about. Very few understand the theory behind it and what it's trying to accomplish. What he taught me is the stationary, standing portion of this form (no movement) which we should practice for quite a good while before venturing into a "form". The practice of this brought Shifu Zhu back from his "death bed" and his students, in addition to good health, have had things like hair grow where balding was prevalent and darken hair where it was turning white. It's a very concentrated exercise as well. I only need spend 10 minutes a day (broken up into 6 one and a half minute stands and I'm maxed out till the next day.

 

Thank you for your suggestion for the I Ching. I appreciate it!

 

I hope we can meet one day. Have some tea and chat. You have a wonderful Martial art and Qigong background.

 

Oh, you also mentioned you had mastered 3 complete systems of Qigong, am I correct? May I ask what is the third (the other two being BFP and TTP).

 

BTW, I'm a 50 year old kid

 

Xiexie,

 

Best,

 

Bill

Edited March 23, 2010 by Baguakid

[Spirit Ape]

Hello Terry Sifu,

 

I saw a San Dar spirit possession here in australi at a kung fu meeting, the guy started doing monkey king, but he was covered in sweat by the end. Was it a good performance (no) but it was interesting. In hongkong I participated in a San Dar ritual meditation, blood offerings to both buddhist and taoist gods/deities, buring the yellow tailsmans and dipping it in the wine or water, drinking it etc.

 

But... I couldnt help but to start laughing for some reason and I walked out cause it was just too full on I think alot was mind over matter at the time. They started bashing themselves and cutting but none was stabbing which then I asked if i can stab one and they then said please leave. Hahahahaha

 

Anyway horses for courses....

 

regards

Garry

[zen-bear]

Hello Terry Sifu,

 

I saw a San Dar spirit possession here in australi at a kung fu meeting, the guy started doing monkey king, but he was covered in sweat by the end. Was it a good performance (no) but it was interesting. In hongkong I participated in a San Dar ritual meditation, blood offerings to both buddhist and taoist gods/deities, buring the yellow tailsmans and dipping it in the wine or water, drinking it etc.

 

But... I couldnt help but to start laughing for some reason and I walked out cause it was just too full on I think alot was mind over matter at the time. They started bashing themselves and cutting but none was stabbing which then I asked if i can stab one and they then said please leave. Hahahahaha

 

Anyway horses for courses....

 

regards

 

Hi Sifu Garry,

 

Just any spiritual movement, or martial fraternity, the power level of the ritual all depends on the power, focus, and consciousness of the leaders of the ritual. And the leaders' purpose for invoking the spiritual possession. In the pure tradition Huashan Sun Dar, the Protective Diety may not choose to inhabit if it's just a bunch of superstitious curiosity seekers. But It is more likely to manifest if invoked for the purpose of initiating and edifying the devout, and more certainly to protect that sects Dharma should it be threatened with defilement or destruction.

 

It sounds like the one's you attended were not ministered by high Taoist or high Buddhist priest. When a ShareLew or a Kuan Sai Hung presides, as I explained in previoius posting, you immediately know that you are in the presence of something far greater than anything you had previously imagined a spirit can be like.

 

The test, proof-of-the-pudding, that I would ask to do (if I suspected the sun dar ritual was hokey) is not just to stab the possessed with a sword, but to apply hard pressure and draw the full length of a well-honed edge-weapon across flesh where there is no bone and not much muscle underneath (e.g., stomach, lower abdomen). Because in self-induced trance, as in Hei-gung demonstrations, one can withstand impressive strikes by fist and stabs and clubbing by weapons, but having a razor-sharp edge weapon drawn fast across soft tissue (and with Qi applied to it), for me will prove that it is a Spirit-possessed-trance,and not hei-gung.

 

I have attended similar Sun Dar rituals in Chinese and the equivalent in other non-Chinese traditions. But when the Protective Diety of one of the Five Taoist Sects manifests (or their equivalent in other religion)s, you are changed and humbled forever.

 

Sifu Terry

 

P.S About the clip you sent of the filmed Russian(?) energy issuer:

 

It looks somewhat legit.

But, but, but: I am very, very suspicious because they filmed it with dim-lighting and lots of shadows. Plus the guy had on shirt-sleeves, which could easily concealed a laser as other viewers had commented. Or even an frickin hair-dryer! If it's Russian, you have to remember that that country is just totally gripped by evil and there are innumerable scams flowing out of it.

 

This clip is in ridiculous contrast to GM Doo Wai's demo's for us, such as when he did the Chi manifestations. He would always roll up both his sleeve, the lights would be on bright-bright, and he washed both hands thoroughly up to the elbows, and then demonstrate the manifestation.

Edited March 23, 2010 by zen-bear

[zen-bear]

Dear Terry,

 

It's very interesting that you "get" what that form is about. Very few understand the theory behind it and what it's trying to accomplish. What he taught me is the stationary, standing portion of this form (no movement) which we should practice for quite a good while before venturing into a "form". The practice of this brought Shifu Zhu back from his "death bed" and his students, in addition to good health, have had things like hair grow where balding was prevalent and darken hair where it was turning white. It's a very concentrated exercise as well. I only need spend 10 minutes a day (broken up into 6 one and a half minute stands and I'm maxed out till the next day.

 

Thank you for your suggestion for the I Ching. I appreciate it!

 

I hope we can meet one day. Have some tea and chat. You have a wonderful Martial art and Qigong background.

 

Oh, you also mentioned you had mastered 3 complete systems of Qigong, am I correct? May I ask what is the third (the other two being BFP and TTP).

 

BTW, I'm a 50 year old kid

 

Xiexie,

 

Best,

 

Bill

 

Dear Bill,

 

You're very welcome. Again, because of your screenname, bakuakid, I called your attention to the 8 Trigrams chanted while practicing 8 basic movements and steps in a particular form of Bakua that i was introduced to in the 1980's by a teacher in torrance/redondo beach, CA.

 

A: I stated three systems to be conservative. These are the internal systems I have completed training in and can teach when students are ready for them:

 

Tao Tan Pai

Tai Chi Ruler

8 Sections of Energy Combined (Buddhist)

Flying Phoenix Heavenly Healing Chi Meditations (Ehrmei

Ten Thousand Buddhas Meditation (Ehrmei)

 

(I do not count Tai Chi Qigong, as I have not completed my training in that yet)

 

Best,

 

Terry Dunn

[zen-bear]

[Spirit Ape]

Hi Terry Sifu,

 

The Sun Dar I went to was conducted by a shaolin monk in singapore visiting a Yau Kung Mun brother of mine in the outer skirts of Hongkong I think mostly Hakka decendants (not sure I know there was some Hakka people there).

 

Anyway they did cope some heavy blows from the monk and they was slicing the body with no pain or bleeding although I wanted to stab him just out of curiosity to see if it would penetrate. But I guess they didnt want me to do it.

 

Regarding the Russian teacher apparently he is the real deal and learnt from a daoist master in russia due to russian being close to china and tibet it has many masters there especially Tibetan buddhism. The mantras can be found in Kabballa, and other esoteric systems. He can teach you this skill if u offer the money!!!

 

FP and most of GMDW's Hei Gung/ Nei Gung for what I know doesnt use Micro cosmic mentality but some I have use Mantra and visualization as well invoking the elements. Just my 2 cents worth, of course some just use the good old breath percentage breathing which is a major key.

 

regards

Sifu Garry

[Spirit Ape]

Just one thing I like to add about BFP meds, for instance the "Monk viewing the moon" works off the moon's magnetic energy held at head level to pull or to me rips open the 3rd eye. Soon as I hold thi posture my 3rd eye and brain just pulsates as the hands magnatize with the holding the ball which in trun starts to pull on the 3rd eye.

 

Anyway if that doesnt make sense its because im tired!

 

Sifu Garry

[rsalazar]