Flying Phoenix Chi Kung

[zen-bear]

Hello Lloyd,

 

Your training questions are good ones. As you've been working with the DVD series for about 4 months now (as I recall), I assume that you've worked through the sequence of 5 standing Med's in Volume One all during one session (on a couple of occasions or more) and the 6 Basic Seated Med's in Vol. 2 all in one sitting (on a couple of occasions or more).

 

Once your body has memorized the sequence in Volume One, the seated sequence of meditations in Volume two, and if you've also memorized can perform with eyes closed "Wind Above the Clouds", "Wind Through Treetops" and "Moonbeam Splashes on Water", then you can do less of the stationary basic meditations, you can mix and match the meditations anyway you want. However, the base med's that you should be very, very comfortable and "automatic" in doing (i.e., they practically do themselves) are:

 

1. "Monk Gazing At Moon" (60, 40, 20); and

2. "Bending the Bows" (70, 40, 30, 20, 10)

 

As you are now spending 20 minutes per exercise and are used to "moving like a sand dune", and doing 3 execises per hour, you can continue for two more months at this excellent rate until your bodily naturally "tells you" or you intuitively know that you can shorten the duration of the first three stationary exercises like "Mong Gazing At Moon", "Monk Holding Peach" and "Monk Holding Pearl." In my beginning classes, when students are just learning the FP med's, I have them do the first 3 standing stationary med's each for 15-20 minutes. But with after six monthgs of weekly classes (24 classes), I shorten the time to 7-8 minutes for each of the stationary three (Monk Gazing At Moon, Monk Holding Peach, Monk Holding Pearl) and if the students are really relaxed, sunken, and "soaking" in the FP energy, we do the first 3 meds just 5-6 minutes---and spend more time doing the moving meditations of vol. 3 and 4.

 

***ALSO, I WANT TO GIVE YOU THIS TIP AT THIS POINT: SHOULD YOU EVER FEEL THAT THERE IS TOO MUCH ENERGY STOKED UP BY THE FP PRACTICE, YOU CAN ALWAYS AMP DOWN THE ENERGY LEVEL BY SIMPLY EATING SOMETHING. UNLIKE MANY OTHER QIGONG SYSTEMS THAT GENERATE QI THROUGH DIFFERRENT ALCHEMIC FORMULAS AND WORK THROUGH DIFFERENT ENERGY PATHWAYS, WITH THE FP SYSTEM, YOU CAN SHUT DOWN THE VIBRATORY STATE JUST BE EATING SOMETHING SOLID.

 

Also, the FP system works best if you are on a regular and healthy sleep schedule.

Other Qigong systems (e.g. TTP neigung) can replace sleep to a certain extent, but NOT the FP system. It relies on a foundation of regularly getting a full night's sleep (which of course varies from person to person...some need 6 hrs/night, others 8.5 hrs., etc.)

 

It sounds like you're doing great with the FP practice and getting good results.

 

As far how far you can go in terms of energy cultivation: it all depends on the individual. the more you practiced the greater the reserve of healing energy. You can never "OD" on teh FP system. Just not possible. Even if you vibrate with tremendous involuntary movements, at some point the vibratory state will naturally subside on its own.

 

Thanks for the questions. I think others might be able to utilize my answers as well.

 

Best,

 

 

Terry Dunn

 

P.S. also for additional ideas about how many med's for how long, you can refer to the training schedule on my website:

 

http://www.taichimania.com/trainingschedule.html

 

http://www.taichimania.com/essentialguidelines.html

 

 

 

 

Hi Sifu Terry -

 

OK, shifting gears a little, I have a rather pedestrian (but important) question to ask regarding Flying Phoenix.

 

It's a really rich system, with quite a few exercises. So, as for a practice routine, assuming an average 60 minutes a day devoted to Flying Phoenix, what do you recommend?

 

Is it better to work sequentially through the FP exercises we know?

 

Or, are there base exercises that should be practiced more often, with greater frequency?

Again, yes: "Monk Gazing At Moon" and "Bending the Bows"

 

One thing I am finding is my pace of doing the movements while doing FP has slowed considerably...I am definitely into moving slow like shifting sand. After a period of time, that seems to be a natural occurrence. I mention this because with the relative slow pace I now average 20 minutes per exercise (I'm speaking specifically of the seated meditations), so in one hour I comfortably do three exercises.

 

Also on a side note, the Flying Phoenix meditations have continually gotten stronger and stronger with each passing week I have practiced them...is there any end to this increasing energy?

 

Thanks for your advice and council on this.

 

Lloyd

[Spirit Ape]

Well done Fu Dog, what a great awareness you are recieving from it with you anology "Shifting Sand" that means you are sensiticing your body and aura, flying phoenix is a real treasure. Sifu Terry amzing mate, you must have a great series if people are getting result like that in short time.

 

Garry

[Ya Mu]

[zen-bear]

Hi Terry,

As a 30+ year practitioner and teacher of medical qigong, I must say your observations are the same as my own. Many on this forum do not seem to appreciate use of the words spiritual, Light, God, good & evil, higher vibrations, etc. But for me I want to say thanks so much for posting these observations.

 

Also, thanks for posting this. Many in IMA that also do qigong do not seem to understand this difference in vibration, thinking that everything is simple intent and energy. I am not a MAist, but have studied Tai Jee and Hsing I with teacher Y. W. Chang, a senior student of Chen Pan Ling. I also have noticed this distinct vibratory difference in energetics between the IMA practices and what I call High Level qigong (heavenly based energetics). As an example of this difference, I can practice qigong in the field with my horses and it puts them in a deep state of mesmerized relaxation. But, while keeping the brain waves as close to zero as possible and body tension as low as possible, if I switch to a Hsing I posture the horses immediately stand at attention and the dominant one steps up with a confused but defensive expression.

 

I encourage you to post on the other threads as well as this one for your knowledge can help a lot of people.

 

Light,

Michael

 

 

Dear Michael,

 

Thank you very much for your affirmative critique of and positive feedback on my observations and the clarifications that I have tried to add to this Qigong discussion. And you're welcome--I'm glad that the observations I made find congruence with your three decades of experience in medical qigong. As a teacher, I'm constantly doing basic education to inform folks that there is a wide spectrum of Qigong arts ranging from purely medical to purely martial to purely spiritual types. But I think due to too much reading books and blogs, and gossiping, and not enough hard practice of authentic Qigong, a lot of people aren't getting to a level of discernment where one can recognize and differentiate between Qigong methods.

 

Yes, what bothers me the most these days is the real problem of more and more people subscribing to the simplistic, naive, self-limiting and growth-stopping notion that qigong is nothing more than "intent plus energy." Recently there was some hour-long program on PBS narrated by james Shigeta called "Qigong" produced by a very inexperienced self-proclaimed "expert" (someone who studied with some master in China but who obviously didn't understand what he was studying--other than calisthenics aspect), who has propounded the false idea throughout the show that Qigong was the original precursor that gave rise to Tai Chi and all the internal martial arts. This idiotic re-writing of Chinese martial and yogic history is actually insidiously propounded by certain commercial/corporate interests. --i.e., the company that distributes the very mediocre Qigong DVD's produced by this same producer of that PBS program (you can easily ferret all this out) wants to make a lot of money selling DVD programs that teach a "generic" brand of Qigong. So when you see the continuing perpetuation of this totally false notion of a universal, generic "Qigong" style,just be aware that there is corporate greed behind it. I remember in the early 1970's when I was beginning my kung-fu training with Sifu Douglas Wong, there was hardly any mention of Qigong. There were hardly any books on the subject because it was jealously guarded secret. 40 years later, there are shelves and shelves of books on Qigong! What happened?? Did all the martial fraternities in China, all the Taoist and Buddhist spiritual orders suddenly decide to cough up the Whole Truth about their highest secrets? NOT ON YOUR LIFE. Starting in the early 1970's when we students and when our sifu's spoke about "the internal" it was with a grave reverence because we knew Chi Kung (how it was romanized back then) was most deadly and dangerous, because there are some forms martial qigong that can kill without leaving much of a trace, and undo a life system that no western physician (or most eastern doctors for that matter) can possibly explain through an autopsy.

 

But this is America, and you see the dumbing-down and dilution of every product, commodity, or idea--in order to sell more of it more easily. I've been a U.S. citizen since 6 yrs of age and I graduated from the Harvard Business School (for my sins) in 1980, and I function well in a capitalist society and understand mercantilism thoroughly. But when this stupid, ignorant, and mercenary re-writing of Chinese yogic history is starting to pollute the mind of the masses (in the same way that the PRC government printed and disseminated tens of millions of instructional pamphlets filled with line drawings teaching generic "qigong" and "tai chi" just to pacify the masses starting in the early 1970's--and this downstream hokum flowed to the West, got translated into books and videos, and that's all what the masses think Qigong is,) and I'm now spending inordinate time educating people that come to my classes (or use my DVD's) to the contrary--that NO, the the Chinese martial arts came first, weapons forms came before fist sets, and the internal arts (qigong and neigung) evolved to different degrees of sophistication within some Chinese martial art traditions--and not all within others, etc. And to see the misinformation of that Qigong show on PBS only irks me.

 

To make this clarification once again, I'll offer two arguments or justifications of my observation: I will use first make a rational argument that Qigong, by virtue of its definition (that any beginner or even layperson in China would know) cultivates and gives rise to numerous forms or "flavors" of internal energy; and then secondlyj, I use an anecdote that I had told earlier on this blog to PROVE that qigong is not intent plus energy:

(A) let's start with the three essential components of Qigong. The three elements that make Qigong Qigong are: (1) "Xing" the regulation shape-form of the body; (2) I (or Yi in Wade-Giles) - or mental focus, which is the regulation of the heart-mind (xin); and (3) Qi (chi) "breath-energy" which connotes the regulation of respiration by esoteric breathing methods--and not just "natal" breathing!!!. If you just think about the range of variation within each of these 3 Qigong parameters--Xing, I, and Qi, then you know that the most heavenly and sublime spiritual healing energy can be cultivated (such as that of the FP system), or the most hellish "toxic" and deadly energies such as those cultivated in various dim mak (dim mor) traditions.

 

I mean, one doesn't have to be a scholar or a historian to understand the truth. But what's making it more and more difficult to parse the truth about Qigong out these days are the money-changers and the confusion they sew by propping up ignorant non-experts willing to do their bidding as "experts." Because diluted, pedestrian forms of Qigong can be sold through books, videos, classes and weekend workshops as instantly gratifying "quick-fixes"--just like diluted Indian Yoga has been for the past 25-30 years in the West, I fear that as a teacher, I'm going to be one of the few lone voices in the wilderness screaming against dumb and dumber.

 

( A while back, I shared with this discussion thread in a posting addressed Sifu Garry Hearfield [who studied with GM Doo Wai as well (but much more recently and many years after I had trained with the GM)] a training "accident" I had around 1993 when Grandmaster Doo Wai of the White Tiger Kung-fu system (Bok Fu Pai) instructed our study group to buy a bunch of very small pet creatures and had each student attempt to revive (with the FP healing energy) one of the little creatures that was allowed to dessicate and die beforehand (the Grandmaster was able to do this everytime he demonstrated his healing energy on these and other small creatures). However, none of us students at the time could do it...and we had been practicing the FP system and more advanced healing qigong meditations for about two years. When it was my turn to attempt to revive one the small creatures that was placed in the same container/pen as the other living ones, I tried and tried, circling my palm in a certain direction and mentally issuing the energy from my circling palm. I felt the energy issuing from my palm but nothing happened to the dead creature. The Grandmaster instructed me to keep trying. so I tried and tried, but still nothing happened. So I finally gave up. I felt kind of dejected at failing the exercise, but about 20 seconds later, when everybody had given up and were taking a break, one of the students, I think it was Tino Baguio, yells "Holy Shit--they're all dead!" Everyone gathered around the container and sure enough, everyone of the little pet creatures was dead. So despite my absolute, clear intent to heal and revive the one creature, I totally (and embarassingly) "misfired" the internal energy in my body at the time (because I had also been religiously practicing the "most martial" qigong systems that the GM had taught me as well as the medical Qigong system.) Instead of having a healing/resuscitating effect, I had a deadly effect on the entire lot. GM Doo Wai told everyone with a twinkle, "Yeah I saw the energy go into them and it was the wrong energy." Then the GM made some adjustments on my wrists and inside elbow points with jiao and declared "Don't worry,that won't ever happen again. When you want to heal, the healing energy will come out; and when you want to hurt, the martial energy will come out." So far so good. [but regardless of the GM's reassurances to the other students back then, none of them would ever spar with me again.]

 

I cite this accident story again to reiterate the point that if Qigong was indeed a matter of "intentionality" plus metabolic energy, then I would have had a salient effect on the tiny little creature and his peers would be alive today because my healing intention was pure. The fact that I had the most pure, earnest healing intention (that everyone in the room could see and clearly feel), and yet the "wrong" energy issued from me (because on a daily basis, I had been doing a higher percentage of martial qigong exercises than FP Healing Qigong exercise.) is clear proof that Qigong is not merely "intention plus energy." Rather, what I've learned and what I try to teach is that Qigong is a diverse body alchemic knowledge populated by a wide range of very esoteric, powerful traditions that cultivate many different forms or "flavors" of internal energy.

***Another case that substantiates this point: in the late 1970's when Taoist Priest Share K. Lew was at Sifu Douglas Wong's White Lotus Kung-fu studio in Van Nuys in the late 1970's visiting his friend Master Hsi Hung Hsi, the famous Hsing I master who had flown into town from Taiwan, afterwards, Sifu Lew said to us "Master Hsi, his energy is very different, it feels very, very different from any other chi I know..." (meaning different from any form of normal human energy as well as yogically cultivated energy in all the Chinese systems--of which Master Lew was widely knowledgeable in). No one knows what type of internal cultivation Master Hsi mastered in addition to his Hsing-I Chuan's internal tradition.

 

Mark, thank you for sharing your MA background even though you say you're not a MAist. I am old friends with author Robert W. Smith, and I have all his black and white films that he took in Taiwan in the late 50's and early 1960's--including the footage of Chen Pan Ling demonstrating repetitive line techniques--that someone else posted on youtube:

 

And yes, I can relate well with your affecting your horses one way with Qigong and then very differently when you assume a Hsing-I posture. As you know, domesticated animals are very sensitive to human energies and the psychic energy that is cultivated through Qigong training. And also wild animals for that matter: Even before I learned any of the White Tiger internal systems in the 1990's, when I as practicing the Tao Tan Pai internal system (taught by Master Share K. Lew) in the late 1970's while I was living in the hillside community of Los Feliz in L.A., one densely foggy evening I was in a horse stance doing slow Circling Palms, a skunk appeared at my feat out of the foggyy blanket and stayed there just looking at me for about a minute (he never sprayed me, thank God.) and then disappeared down my driveway. On the other hand, 15 years later, after GM Doo Wai had taught some of us a very powerful martial qigong that is effective at a distance, he instructed us to try it out on dogs. Not to kill or maim them, but just enough to see their reaction. And when the energy was directed at them (by holding one's body a certain way), they always became very defensive, bothered and hostile--to say the least--barking up a storm.

 

Thank you again very much for affirming my position that there is so much more to Qigong and Neigung that just metabolic/respiratory energy and intent. As you can see, I'm kept pretty busy responding to questions the best I can on this discussion thread...But if there are other discussion threads on taobums where you think my "two bits" might be beneficially heard, let me know which ones I should take a look at. When I have time, i will read them, and decide whether or not to add a comment or two.

 

Thanks again for chiming in with your note of resonance with the truth.

 

Lux et Veritas,

 

Terry

[zen-bear]

Dear Michael,

 

Thank you very much for your affirmative critique of and positive feedback on my observations and the clarifications that I have tried to add to this Qigong discussion. And you're welcome--I'm glad that the observations I made find congruence with your three decades of experience in medical qigong. As a teacher, I'm constantly doing basic education to inform folks that there is a wide spectrum of Qigong arts ranging from purely medical to purely martial to purely spiritual types. But I think due to too much reading books and blogs, and gossiping, and not enough hard practice of authentic Qigong, a lot of people aren't getting to a level of discernment where one can recognize and differentiate between Qigong methods.

 

Yes, what bothers me the most these days is the real problem of more and more people subscribing to the simplistic, naive, self-limiting and growth-stopping notion that qigong is nothing more than "intent plus energy." Recently there was some hour-long program on PBS narrated by james Shigeta called "Qigong" produced by a very inexperienced self-proclaimed "expert" (someone who studied with some master in China but who obviously didn't understand what he was studying--other than calisthenics aspect), who has propounded the false idea throughout the show that Qigong was the original precursor that gave rise to Tai Chi and all the internal martial arts. This idiotic re-writing of Chinese martial and yogic history is actually insidiously propounded by certain commercial/corporate interests. --i.e., the company that distributes the very mediocre Qigong DVD's produced by this same producer of that PBS program (you can easily ferret all this out) wants to make a lot of money selling DVD programs that teach a "generic" brand of Qigong. So when you see the continuing perpetuation of this totally false notion of a universal, generic "Qigong" style,just be aware that there is corporate greed behind it. I remember in the early 1970's when I was beginning my kung-fu training with Sifu Douglas Wong, there was hardly any mention of Qigong. There were hardly any books on the subject because it was jealously guarded secret. 40 years later, there are shelves and shelves of books on Qigong! What happened?? Did all the martial fraternities in China, all the Taoist and Buddhist spiritual orders suddenly decide to cough up the Whole Truth about their highest secrets? NOT ON YOUR LIFE. Starting in the early 1970's when we students and when our sifu's spoke about "the internal" it was with a grave reverence because we knew Chi Kung (how it was romanized back then) was most deadly and dangerous, because there are some forms martial qigong that can kill without leaving much of a trace, and undo a life system that no western physician (or most eastern doctors for that matter) can possibly explain through an autopsy.

 

But this is America, and you see the dumbing-down and dilution of every product, commodity, or idea--in order to sell more of it more easily. I've been a U.S. citizen since 6 yrs of age and I graduated from the Harvard Business School (for my sins) in 1980, and I function well in a capitalist society and understand mercantilism thoroughly. But when this stupid, ignorant, and mercenary re-writing of Chinese yogic history is starting to pollute the mind of the masses (in the same way that the PRC government printed and disseminated tens of millions of instructional pamphlets filled with line drawings teaching generic "qigong" and "tai chi" just to pacify the masses starting in the early 1970's--and this downstream hokum flowed to the West, got translated into books and videos, and that's all what the masses think Qigong is,) and I'm now spending inordinate time educating people that come to my classes (or use my DVD's) to the contrary--that NO, the the Chinese martial arts came first, weapons forms came before fist sets, and the internal arts (qigong and neigung) evolved to different degrees of sophistication within some Chinese martial art traditions--and not all within others, etc. And to see the misinformation of that Qigong show on PBS only irks me.

 

To make this clarification once again, I'll offer two arguments or justifications of my observation: I will use first make a rational argument that Qigong, by virtue of its definition (that any beginner or even layperson in China would know) cultivates and gives rise to numerous forms or "flavors" of internal energy; and then secondlyj, I use an anecdote that I had told earlier on this blog to PROVE that qigong is not intent plus energy:

(A) let's start with the three essential components of Qigong. The three elements that make Qigong Qigong are: (1) "Xing" the regulation shape-form of the body; (2) I (or Yi in Wade-Giles) - or mental focus, which is the regulation of the heart-mind (xin); and (3) Qi (chi) "breath-energy" which connotes the regulation of respiration by esoteric breathing methods--and not just "natal" breathing!!!. If you just think about the range of variation within each of these 3 Qigong parameters--Xing, I, and Qi, then you know that the most heavenly and sublime spiritual healing energy can be cultivated (such as that of the FP system), or the most hellish "toxic" and deadly energies such as those cultivated in various dim mak (dim mor) traditions.

 

I mean, one doesn't have to be a scholar or a historian to understand the truth. But what's making it more and more difficult to parse the truth about Qigong out these days are the money-changers and the confusion they sew by propping up ignorant non-experts willing to do their bidding as "experts." Because diluted, pedestrian forms of Qigong can be sold through books, videos, classes and weekend workshops as instantly gratifying "quick-fixes"--just like diluted Indian Yoga has been for the past 25-30 years in the West, I fear that as a teacher, I'm going to be one of the few lone voices in the wilderness screaming against dumb and dumber.

 

( A while back, I shared with this discussion thread in a posting addressed Sifu Garry Hearfield [who studied with GM Doo Wai as well (but much more recently and many years after I had trained with the GM)] a training "accident" I had around 1993 when Grandmaster Doo Wai of the White Tiger Kung-fu system (Bok Fu Pai) instructed our study group to buy a bunch of very small pet creatures and had each student attempt to revive (with the FP healing energy) one of the little creatures that was allowed to dessicate and die beforehand (the Grandmaster was able to do this everytime he demonstrated his healing energy on these and other small creatures). However, none of us students at the time could do it...and we had been practicing the FP system and more advanced healing qigong meditations for about two years. When it was my turn to attempt to revive one the small creatures that was placed in the same container/pen as the other living ones, I tried and tried, circling my palm in a certain direction and mentally issuing the energy from my circling palm. I felt the energy issuing from my palm but nothing happened to the dead creature. The Grandmaster instructed me to keep trying. so I tried and tried, but still nothing happened. So I finally gave up. I felt kind of dejected at failing the exercise, but about 20 seconds later, when everybody had given up and were taking a break, one of the students, I think it was Tino Baguio, yells "Holy Shit--they're all dead!" Everyone gathered around the container and sure enough, everyone of the little pet creatures was dead. So despite my absolute, clear intent to heal and revive the one creature, I totally (and embarassingly) "misfired" the internal energy in my body at the time (because I had also been religiously practicing the "most martial" qigong systems that the GM had taught me as well as the medical Qigong system.) Instead of having a healing/resuscitating effect, I had a deadly effect on the entire lot. GM Doo Wai told everyone with a twinkle, "Yeah I saw the energy go into them and it was the wrong energy." Then the GM made some adjustments on my wrists and inside elbow points with jiao and declared "Don't worry,that won't ever happen again. When you want to heal, the healing energy will come out; and when you want to hurt, the martial energy will come out." So far so good. [but regardless of the GM's reassurances to the other students back then, none of them would ever spar with me again.]

 

I cite this accident story again to reiterate the point that if Qigong was indeed a matter of "intentionality" plus metabolic energy, then I would have had a salient effect on the tiny little creature and his peers would be alive today because my healing intention was pure. The fact that I had the most pure, earnest healing intention (that everyone in the room could see and clearly feel), and yet the "wrong" energy issued from me (because on a daily basis, I had been doing a higher percentage of martial qigong exercises than FP Healing Qigong exercise.) is clear proof that Qigong is not merely "intention plus energy." Rather, what I've learned and what I try to teach is that Qigong is a diverse body alchemic knowledge populated by a wide range of very esoteric, powerful traditions that cultivate many different forms or "flavors" of internal energy.

***Another case that substantiates this point: in the late 1970's when Taoist Priest Share K. Lew was at Sifu Douglas Wong's White Lotus Kung-fu studio in Van Nuys in the late 1970's visiting his friend Master Hsi Hung Hsi, the famous Hsing I master who had flown into town from Taiwan, afterwards, Sifu Lew said to us "Master Hsi, his energy is very different, it feels very, very different from any other chi I know..." (meaning different from any form of normal human energy as well as yogically cultivated energy in all the Chinese systems--of which Master Lew was widely knowledgeable in). No one knows what type of internal cultivation Master Hsi mastered in addition to his Hsing-I Chuan's internal tradition.

 

Mark, thank you for sharing your MA background even though you say you're not a MAist. I am old friends with author Robert W. Smith, and I have all his black and white films that he took in Taiwan in the late 50's and early 1960's--including the footage of Chen Pan Ling demonstrating repetitive line techniques--that someone else posted on youtube:

 

And yes, I can relate well with your affecting your horses one way with Qigong and then very differently when you assume a Hsing-I posture. As you know, domesticated animals are very sensitive to human energies and the psychic energy that is cultivated through Qigong training. And also wild animals for that matter: Even before I learned any of the White Tiger internal systems in the 1990's, when I as practicing the Tao Tan Pai internal system (taught by Master Share K. Lew) in the late 1970's while I was living in the hillside community of Los Feliz in L.A., one densely foggy evening I was in a horse stance doing slow Circling Palms, a skunk appeared at my feat out of the foggyy blanket and stayed there just looking at me for about a minute (he never sprayed me, thank God.) and then disappeared down my driveway. On the other hand, 15 years later, after GM Doo Wai had taught some of us a very powerful martial qigong that is effective at a distance, he instructed us to try it out on dogs. Not to kill or maim them, but just enough to see their reaction. And when the energy was directed at them (by holding one's body a certain way), they always became very defensive, bothered and hostile--to say the least--barking up a storm.

 

Thank you again very much for affirming my position that there is so much more to Qigong and Neigung that just metabolic/respiratory energy and intent. As you can see, I'm kept pretty busy responding to questions the best I can on this discussion thread...But if there are other discussion threads on taobums where you think my "two bits" might be beneficially heard, let me know which ones I should take a look at. When I have time, i will read them, and decide whether or not to add a comment or two.

 

Thanks again for chiming in with your note of resonance with the truth.

 

Lux et Veritas,

 

Terry

 

P.S. I want to qualify that statement I put in bold: "Weapons forms most likely evolved before kung-fu first sets."

[zen-bear]

Hi Terry Sifu,

 

I got your PM, ill send you one shortly!

 

Ok, so LHBF as an Internal art its based on Chi, Yin Yang, 5 elements, to me that is still a form of Chi Kung. Would you catagorize it as Martial Chi Kung, im trying to see what you are saying as we both use different terminologies or you dont consider it a Chi Kung internal martial art system? Sorry for all the questions, just trying to understand your meanings for it all to get a better base to chat on a similar or same level!

 

regards

Garry

 

 

Hi Sifu Garry,

I forgot to answer this posting of yours.

I guess my usage of the term Chi Kung (qigong) dates back to the mid 1970's about 3 years after I started training in kung-fu (Sil Lum 5 Animals). As I explained to Michael ("Tao Wizard") in my last posting: "I remember in the early 1970's when I was beginning my kung-fu training with Sifu Douglas Wong, there was hardly any mention of Chi Kung. There were hardly any books on the subject because it was jealously guarded secret. 40 years later, there are shelves and shelves of books on Qigong! What happened?? Did all the martial fraternities in China, all the Taoist and Buddhist spiritual orders suddenly decide to cough up the Whole Truth about their highest secrets? NOT ON YOUR LIFE. The fact is that many masters and adepts starting writing about (mostly) medical qigong systems for health because found out there's a market for it in the West. But starting in the early 1970's when we students and when our sifu's spoke about "the internal" it was with a grave reverence because we knew Chi Kung (how it was romanized back then) was most deadly and dangerous, because there are some forms martial qigong that can kill without leaving much of a trace, and undo a life system that no western physician (or most eastern doctors for that matter) can possibly explain through an autopsy."

 

I think of Tai Chi Chuan as a complete martial art. It has what is known as tai chi chi kung (taiji qigong). But I would not describe the entire art as "martial qigong" because one can do the Tai Chi Chuan Forms for many years as a student without doing qigong.

 

Likewise, LHBF is a complete martial art like Tai Chi Chuan. And it has its internal energy components.

 

Likewise, Bak Fu Pai and YKM are complete martial arts. And one can go one for years and years and practice only the kung-fu forms, and not be taught the internal training, and so not reach the level of martial qigong. (Of course, once one masters the complete art of BFP or YKM, one is cultivated to the point where everything is martial qigong.) But would you describe BFP or YKM to the general public as systems of "martial qigong"? I just prefer to them kung-fu systems.

 

Also, to give you an idea of how my usage of the term "martial qigong" developed, I only started using it after learning the Eight Sections of Energy Combined (BDG) from GM Doo Wai. This is because unlike any other kung-fu system I learned or have been exposed to, every single Form and exercise in BFP had an esoteric breathing formula attached to it--including all of the 8 Sections (or Forms). And one feels a distinct, martial energy with the practice of every component of this system.

 

**I realize I might seem to be splitting hairs here in what I describe as "martial qigong" what I do not, but I make the particular distinctions based on:

1. what I understood Tai Chi Chuan and LHBF to be since I first started practicing them in the late 70's.

2. how my definition and usage of "martial qigong" is based on my experience with the BDG since 1992.

3. how since that time as well, I learned from training under GM Doo Wai the vast difference between purely medical qigong from the GM (Flying Phoenix Qigong), and purely martial qigong (the most destructive, life-dismantling energy arts that the GM taught--in addition to BDG).

 

Sorry to be so long-winded. But that's how my usage came about.

 

Hope all's well with your family emergency, Garry.

 

Terry

Edited April 9, 2010 by zen-bear

[Fu_dog]

Wow - lots of excellent posts here!

 

Sifu Terry - Thanks for your tips on optimizing FP practice. To be honest, I was trying to substitute FP meditations for sleep and it wasn't working out as I would have liked. So, your comment about needing FP practice with adequate sleep was very good. Also, you are correct as to where I am with my practice. I have finished the Basic Standing and Basic Seated Meditations, and I typically alternate them every other day (I love how they complement each other, BTW). I am just starting to learn the first of the Intermediate Standing exercises. Eventually, I will learn them all, however, I am not in a hurry to do so as I am getting excellent results from what I know so far.

 

And, you are correct that I have been practicing about 4 months. You and I spoke by phone on Nov 16, and I began my Flying Phoenix practice in earnest the next day, Nov 17, which ironically, was my birthday.

 

Michael - I appreciate your words here... thanks for contributing to this thread. It seems people arrive at the same destination, so long as they are following a

True Path. I read your book and try to follow your guidelines for hours of practice ( 1 to 2 per day for people trying to optimize their energy), however due to my long work days and business travel that remains a perpetual challenge. ;-) Also, I liked the short story that you tell to begin your book....the more I practice Qigong, the more I am aware of the forces of Good and Evil, Light and Dark. I will post more on that sometime later.

 

Sifu Garry - thanks for your encouragement...that means a lot to me! Yes, I am definitely feeling a tremendous envelope of energy while practicing FP, especially during any/all of the meditations that involve movement. As I do the movements, as my hands move, the FP Energy itself seems to suggest a speed limit...seems to slow my movements so that the subtle feeling of the Energy playing on my hands, arms is optimized. It is really difficult for me to explain the feeling during practice, as we are getting into a realm of reality where words are woefully inadequate to describe the actual experience.

 

 

Sifu Terry - another question for you... again pedestrian, however, I would be very appreciative to hear your opinion. Can you recommend a relatively Yang set of exercises to balance the relative Yin nature of Flying Phoenix practice? My body seems to ask for this... especially upper body exercises as some of the stances in FP put quite a tax on the leg muscles. I would like to keep my daily (or every other day) Yang exercises to 15 to 25 minutes per day. By Yang exercises, I might mean pushups, sit ups, weight training, etc. I am looking for overall balance in my routine. Hopefully what I am asking makes sense.

 

Your thoughts?

 

Thanks,

 

Lloyd

[zen-bear]

Wow - lots of excellent posts here!

 

Sifu Terry - Thanks for your tips on optimizing FP practice. To be honest, I was trying to substitute FP meditations for sleep and it wasn't working out as I would have liked. So, your comment about needing FP practice with adequate sleep was very good. Also, you are correct as to where I am with my practice. I have finished the Basic Standing and Basic Seated Meditations, and I typically alternate them every other day (I love how they complement each other, BTW). I am just starting to learn the first of the Intermediate Standing exercises. Eventually, I will learn them all, however, I am not in a hurry to do so as I am getting excellent results from what I know so far.

 

And, you are correct that I have been practicing about 4 months. You and I spoke by phone on Nov 16, and I began my Flying Phoenix practice in earnest the next day, Nov 17, which ironically, was my birthday.

 

Michael - I appreciate your words here... thanks for contributing to this thread. It seems people arrive at the same destination, so long as they are following a

True Path. I read your book and try to follow your guidelines for hours of practice ( 1 to 2 per day for people trying to optimize their energy), however due to my long work days and business travel that remains a perpetual challenge. ;-) Also, I liked the short story that you tell to begin your book....the more I practice Qigong, the more I am aware of the forces of Good and Evil, Light and Dark. I will post more on that sometime later.

 

Sifu Garry - thanks for your encouragement...that means a lot to me! Yes, I am definitely feeling a tremendous envelope of energy while practicing FP, especially during any/all of the meditations that involve movement. As I do the movements, as my hands move, the FP Energy itself seems to suggest a speed limit...seems to slow my movements so that the subtle feeling of the Energy playing on my hands, arms is optimized. It is really difficult for me to explain the feeling during practice, as we are getting into a realm of reality where words are woefully inadequate to describe the actual experience.

 

 

Sifu Terry - another question for you... again pedestrian, however, I would be very appreciative to hear your opinion. Can you recommend a relatively Yang set of exercises to balance the relative Yin nature of Flying Phoenix practice? My body seems to ask for this... especially upper body exercises as some of the stances in FP put quite a tax on the leg muscles. I would like to keep my daily (or every other day) Yang exercises to 15 to 25 minutes per day. By Yang exercises, I might mean pushups, sit ups, weight training, etc. I am looking for overall balance in my routine. Hopefully what I am asking makes sense.

 

Your thoughts?

 

Thanks,

 

 

Lloyd

 

 

 

 

Dear Lloyd,

 

You're welcome. As you progress through the longer moving meditations of the Flying PHoenix system ("Moonbeam Splashes on Water", and the FPHHCM Long Standing of Vol. 4), you will discover that it is a very complete and balanced system that really is NOT as "yin" as you initially perceive it to be. Although it may seem "yin" because the it generates a purely healing energy.

 

In terms of "yang" activity to balance your "yin" experience of the FP system thus far, you are asking about lifestyle. I have been very athletic all my life and live a very active lifestyle. I played seasonal ball sports all through my early teens, then was a gymnast in high school and college for a total of 8 years, got my first exposure to real kung-fu when during my sophomore year in college and these are the sports that I still do avidly: long-distance cycling, running, backpacking and trekking, mountain climbing (about once a year), swimming, surfing, and river sports. I tell all my students that for general fitness they should do long, sustained aerobic exercise (and I don't mean "aerobic" calisthenics popularized in the 80's by Jane Fonda!)--for at 45 minutes a day (minimum). But teaching for this long, I realize that everyone leads a different type of lifestyle. Most of my students of late are not highly athletic. That said, your alloted 25 minutes a day for aerobic exercise is not very much. If you can afford the time, I would up it to 45 minutes to an hour. (at least 4 times a week, I do 2 hours of aerotic workout--running, cycling, or both). At any rate, to answer your question: if I was limited to 25 minutes a day, I would be running, cycling or swimming during that whole time period.

 

Back to FP: the Flying Phoenix qigong system is the medical (purely healing) qigong component within the White Tiger Kung-fu tradition. The "yang" arts that balance it are naturally the White Tiger martial arts.

 

The intermediate Forms of the FP system need to be practiced until one can do them effortlessly. That means that to master the FP system, practitioners ultimately need to develop the same quality of stancework that's developed through Kung-fu or Tai Chi, which normally takes 3-5 years. While you've been feeling the energy effects of the FP Qigong from the very outset, they get stronger and more profound the better "form" you develop through the Intermediate and advanced FP meditations.

 

Enjoy the practice and stay in touch as you work on "Moonbeam" and "FPHHCM"(the long standing med.)

 

Best,

 

Sifu Terry Dunn

Edited April 13, 2010 by zen-bear

[nic chi]

Sifu Tery,

 

I truly appreciate your sharing of personal experience and insights into the martial arts universe and practice of flying phoneix meditation.

 

I am one of the avid readers of this discussion looking for the right way to make the first step. I started watching the first two DVDs of flying phoneix mediation a few months ago and getting ready to start practicing. Although they are very clear and easy to follow I find the tips you posted here (along with fu_dog's experience with starting this practice) immensely valuable.

 

Thank you.

[zen-bear]

Sifu Tery,

 

I truly appreciate your sharing of personal experience and insights into the martial arts universe and practice of flying phoneix meditation.

 

I am one of the avid readers of this discussion looking for the right way to make the first step. I started watching the first two DVDs of flying phoneix mediation a few months ago and getting ready to start practicing. Although they are very clear and easy to follow I find the tips you posted here (along with fu_dog's experience with starting this practice) immensely valuable.

 

Thank you.

 

 

Hello Nic,

 

You are very welcome. Enjoy your practice and of course feel free to ask questions here on this blogspace. It's pretty handy. For Qigong training is very nuanced and requires ongoing calibration--even with a system as self-contained as the FP.

 

Best,

 

 

Sifu Terry

[Baguakid]

In terms of "yang" activity to balance your "yin" experience of the FP system thus far, you are asking about lifestyle. I have been very athletic all my life and live a very active lifestyle. I played seasonal ball sports all through my early teens, then was a gymnast in high school and college for a total of 8 years, got my first exposure to real kung-fu when during my sophomore year in college and these are the sports that I still do avidly: long-distance cycling, running, backpacking and trekking, mountain climbing (about once a year), swimming, surfing, and river sports. I tell all my students that for general fitness they should do long, sustained aerobic exercise (and I don't mean "aerobic" calisthenics popularized in the 80's by Jane Fonda!)--for at 45 minutes a day (minimum). But teaching for this long, I realize that everyone leads a different type of lifestyle. Most of my students of late are not highly athletic. That said, your alloted 25 minutes a day for aerobic exercise is not very much. If you can afford the time, I would up it to 45 minutes to an hour. (at least 4 times a week, I do 2 hours of aerotic workout--running, cycling, or both). At any rate, to answer your question: if I was limited to 25 minutes a day, I would be running, cycling or swimming during that whole time period.

 

I'm a bit confused on this Terry,

 

I was under the impression that intense (Cardio-vascular) physical exercise will deminish or prevent your qi level from accumulating. In fact, in my own experience, such exercise depletes me and it takes me a long time to recover.

 

I think this goes back to my comments of Xintian/Houtian conditions and you being gifted with a great start.

 

Thanks,

 

Bill

[zen-bear]

I'm a bit confused on this Terry,

 

I was under the impression that intense (Cardio-vascular) physical exercise will deminish or prevent your qi level from accumulating. In fact, in my own experience, such exercise depletes me and it takes me a long time to recover.

 

I think this goes back to my comments of Xintian/Houtian conditions and you being gifted with a great start.

 

Thanks,

 

Bill

 

 

Hi Bill,

 

On the contrary: intense, prolonged cardio-vascular physical exercise in a person's early development, youth, up through adulthood and even old age is important to keep the whole organism strong and fit. Especially in America, where diet and healthy lifestyle (relative to the rest of the world--e.g., no death squads cruising your neighborhood and shoddy buildings collapsing on you when you're in grade school or crocodiles snapping you in two when go fetch drinking water) affords a strong people (from a vigorous gene pool of immigrants from all over for past 300 yrs) the luxury of having stronger Chi to work with from the outset.

 

If you didn't grow up with an athletic lifestyle, one should at the very least do a lot of walking or hiking for up to 45 minutes aday. Basic stuff, listen to Dr. Mehmet Oz, who I know, and whose colleague and friend, dr. Greg Fontana, I worked under at Cedars-Sinai med. Ctr. in L.A. Regular aerobic, cardio-vascular exercise will open up and strengthen your system so that you'll benefit more from the Tai Chi or Qigong.

 

I've taught Tai Chi and Qigong to a lot of pro athletes after they get into their late 40's when they start to feel their raw muscular strength starting to leave. Then they see the value of the internal arts.

 

One tradition in China has young people practicing Shaolin "young or small forest" in their youth, and as they mature, they shift to "more" internal arts such as Tai Chi (this is not to say that Shaolin does not have its own internal methods, btw!!)

 

My first Tai Chi master, Master Abraham Liu, a sr. student of Cheng Man-Ching, advocated doing all kinds of fitness training in addition to Tai Chi. He enjoyed playing golf and tennis and liked to do lots of pull-ups and chin-ups.

 

If you don't have time because of work and family obligations, and you want to spend your exercise time on Tai Chi and qigong, that's wonderful. But if you have time and can afford lots of additional athletic activities, all the better. I love running and long-distance cycling (biking can get up to 7-10 hrs per day). Both become meditations for me where I blend in some of my Qigong methods. I also do lots of backpacking in the High Sierras and Rockies and push myself beyond past limits in terms of endurance--in order to build endurance. Like going from 16 miles a day to 22 miles a day above 11,000 feet with a 65 lb. pack.--and sometimes cross country with map and compass (I weight 155 lbs.) I never feel better than after a 5-6 day trek like that.

 

No! doing aerobic exercise does not "deplete" the Qi. --whereas a lifestyle of drugs, sex and rocknroll if carried into adulthood will definitely shorten your life. Or if you do very dumb, unnatural exercise, in an unhealthy environment or with the wrong attitude, that will certainly deplete one's life force...and there are some really bad, hokey forms of exercise fads out there that fit that bill. (Tai-Bo was one of those. Geesh.)

 

Anyway, even Cheng Man Ching said that Tai Chi well suits the Chinese culture's more sedate lifstyle--compared with the more vigorous American lifestyle. So, just fit Tai Chi, kungfu and Qigong into your lifestyle. And if one's athletic, everything reaches a higher peak experinece because of the internal training. And if one's lifestyle isn't highly active or athletic, then just enjoy the additional energy that Tai Chi and Qigong brings.

 

As I said in my first answer to your question: you are asking about lifestyle--and how to complement it with Tai Chi/Qigong...or to anchor it with Tai chi/Qigong.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Terry Dunn

[Baguakid]

Dear Terry,

All I can say in response is my body has demonstrated the opposite as what you are saying. Of course I love all cardiovascular sports. When I was younger I did roller skating, biking, motorcross, horseback riding (showing open jumping), some cross country, kung fu (mantis), etc. But, my body's response to that exercise was always depletion, difficult to recover, etc. I even had to quit kung fu because of it. I've seen doctors (both eastern, and western) from Florida to California, to China with little to no results (Western doctors being the most worthless of them all in my case) and also Qigong. When I met Cai Songfang, he said "you must practice a lot (wuji qigong) and so practice I did. Practice for 1 to 2 hours a day (with a break in between).. That was in the early 90s and to date I have received little advancement and in fact received negative results. I experienced such depletion I could hardly work and even to date, my current job is in jepordy due to my chronic fatigue.

 

In addition to Wuji qigong, I've practiced sets from SKL and GMDW and others. Taiji, neigong, qigong, etc. I've traveled to China and spent two years there studying Bagua and Chinese. After bagua practice I would need to go home and sleep for 2 hours just to recover. I did not have enough energy to complete my Chinese studies and did not receive my cert of completion. I have literally spent my entire adult life working on this and I'm still searching for the "fix".

 

This is why I reply with "your xiantian/houtian was/is good".

 

Best,

 

Bill

[zen-bear]

Dear Terry,

All I can say in response is my body has demonstrated the opposite as what you are saying. Of course I love all cardiovascular sports. When I was younger I did roller skating, biking, motorcross, horseback riding (showing open jumping), some cross country, kung fu (mantis), etc. But, my body's response to that exercise was always depletion, difficult to recover, etc. I even had to quit kung fu because of it. I've seen doctors (both eastern, and western) from Florida to California, to China with little to no results (Western doctors being the most worthless of them all in my case) and also Qigong. When I met Cai Songfang, he said "you must practice a lot (wuji qigong) and so practice I did. Practice for 1 to 2 hours a day (with a break in between). That was in the early 90s and to date I have received little advancement and in fact received negative results. I experienced such depletion I could hardly work and even to date, my current job is in jepordy due to my chronic fatigue.

 

In addition to Wuji qigong, I've practiced sets from SKL and GMDW and others. Taiji, neigong, qigong, etc. I've traveled to China and spent two years there studying Bagua and Chinese. After bagua practice I would need to go home and sleep for 2 hours just to recover. I did not have enough energy to complete my Chinese studies and did not receive my cert of completion. I have literally spent my entire adult life working on this and I'm still searching for the "fix".

 

This is why I reply with "your xiantian/houtian was/is good".

 

Best,

 

Bill

 

 

Hello Bill,

 

Thanks for explaining your particular problem with chronic fatigue and energy depletion from physical exercise. I cannot diagnose what might be the cause of your enervation from a distance. If GMDW is still practicing healing, you could consult him for dietary advice and Chinese herbal supplements as well as direct-from-the-source instruction in Flying Phoenix Qigong and other BFP internal methods. (Over the years, I have heard nothing good about the GMDW's students in the San Diego area,so I would recommend going to the source--if possible).

 

You said that Cai Sang Fong told you to practice a lot of the standing wuji. But did you get personal instruction in wuji from him? Or did you use the instruction in the "Wujishi Exercise" book? I ask because 2 hrs a day of Wuji is good--but if you're not carefully taught and guided through practice and don't have near-perfect form, 2 hrs a day may be too much and--depending on your level of tension in your system--might be counter-productive. 2 hrs a day of Wuji should done under superior instruction and in the context of Tai Chi or other internal training.

 

This is what I mean by context: When i was studying with Master Abraham Liu (1980-1992), he did not emphasize standing wuji--other than occasionally holding the wuji positions at the start, end, and separating 1st/2nd and 2nd/3rd sections of the Yang Long Form. I remember he specifically told all his students during a retreat (after someone asked him about standing wuji) that he would have us all do the circling exercise ("Wave Hands Like Clouds" in the bow stance, which I teach in my 1990 Tai Chi For Health DVD's) or just "flow the form", rather than stand in wuji. Also in 12 consecutive summer retreats in La Honda that I took with Master Benjamin Lo (another sr. student of Cheng Man-Ching, again, the only wuji standing we did was within the Yang Short Form. (in private instruction, Master Lo does tell students to do lots and lots of wuji standing--but this is after being completely versed and immersed in Form and his Push-hands, which he rigorously trains to the highest standards--to the nth degree.)

 

In my Qigong classes, we do about 30-40 minutes of FP meditations that are very similar if not identical to Wuji. In my Tai Chi classes, on very rare occasions, I have my students do up to 1.5 hr of wuji standing (without a break) using a number of wuji positions. My way (as learned from my teachers) is to teach Wuji (the yin of stillness) to balance and ground Form training, which is the "yang" of activity.

 

Thanks for you compliment about xintian/houtian.

 

I think that the FP Qigong practice could be one effective means to address your chronic fatigue. Keep at it and let me know how it goes.

 

Good Luck,

 

Terry

[Baguakid]

Hello Bill,

 

Thanks for explaining your particular problem with chronic fatigue and energy depletion from physical exercise. I cannot diagnose what might be the cause of your enervation from a distance. If GMDW is still practicing healing, you could consult him for dietary advice and Chinese herbal supplements as well as direct-from-the-source instruction in Flying Phoenix Qigong and other BFP internal methods. (Over the years, I have heard nothing good about the GMDW's students in the San Diego area,so I would recommend going to the source--if possible).

 

You said that Cai Sang Fong told you to practice a lot of the standing wuji. But did you get personal instruction in wuji from him? Or did you use the instruction in the "Wujishi Exercise" book? I ask because 2 hrs a day of Wuji is good--but if you're not carefully taught and guided through practice and don't have near-perfect form, 2 hrs a day may be too much and--depending on your level of tension in your system--might be counter-productive. 2 hrs a day of Wuji should done under superior instruction and in the context of Tai Chi or other internal training.

 

This is what I mean by context: When i was studying with Master Abraham Liu (1980-1992), he did not emphasize standing wuji--other than occasionally holding the wuji positions at the start, end, and separating 1st/2nd and 2nd/3rd sections of the Yang Long Form. I remember he specifically told all his students during a retreat (after someone asked him about standing wuji) that he would have us all do the circling exercise ("Wave Hands Like Clouds" in the bow stance, which I teach in my 1990 Tai Chi For Health DVD's) or just "flow the form", rather than stand in wuji. Also in 12 consecutive summer retreats in La Honda that I took with Master Benjamin Lo (another sr. student of Cheng Man-Ching, again, the only wuji standing we did was within the Yang Short Form. (in private instruction, Master Lo does tell students to do lots and lots of wuji standing--but this is after being completely versed and immersed in Form and his Push-hands, which he rigorously trains to the highest standards--to the nth degree.)

 

In my Qigong classes, we do about 30-40 minutes of FP meditations that are very similar if not identical to Wuji. In my Tai Chi classes, on very rare occasions, I have my students do up to 1.5 hr of wuji standing (without a break) using a number of wuji positions. My way (as learned from my teachers) is to teach Wuji (the yin of stillness) to balance and ground Form training, which is the "yang" of activity.

 

Thanks for you compliment about xintian/houtian.

 

I think that the FP Qigong practice could be one effective means to address your chronic fatigue. Keep at it and let me know how it goes.

 

Good Luck,

 

Terry

 

Thank you for your reply Terry,

 

I first learned Wuji Qigong from one of Cai's top students in Orlando. After that I Teacher Cai several times over the years (twice in Canada and again in Orlando) and finally, when in Shanghai, I stood for him there and he told me my posture/stance was "Very Correct".

 

Also, thank you for your recommendation regarding going directly to the source. I will take that advice.

 

It's been a long road over these years and with the lack of any permanent teacher I've had to "trial and error", study, practice and try again. One teacher I had would just teach me a set and if that didn't work out for me then he'd teach me another (that's how I came to learn the SKL and GMDW sets. I emailed you about him). It's a very difficult way and a difficult road but in the end it is also giving me a good education.

 

I will give the FP sets a try and see how that goes.

 

Thanks again,

 

Bill

[zen-bear]

Thank you for your reply Terry,

 

I first learned Wuji Qigong from one of Cai's top students in Orlando. After that I Teacher Cai several times over the years (twice in Canada and again in Orlando) and finally, when in Shanghai, I stood for him there and he told me my posture/stance was "Very Correct".

 

Also, thank you for your recommendation regarding going directly to the source. I will take that advice.

 

It's been a long road over these years and with the lack of any permanent teacher I've had to "trial and error", study, practice and try again. One teacher I had would just teach me a set and if that didn't work out for me then he'd teach me another (that's how I came to learn the SKL and GMDW sets. I emailed you about him). It's a very difficult way and a difficult road but in the end it is also giving me a good education.

 

I will give the FP sets a try and see how that goes.

 

Thanks again,

 

Bill

 

 

 

Bill,

You're welcome. I hope the FP Qigong system works for you and that you get good results. Make sure in the beginning to try to do ALL of volume One in a session (about 55 minutes), and at least 2/3 of Volume Two at a sitting (about 30 minutes). Each FP meditation imparts tangible energizing and healing effects, but when done as a system, they have a profound cumulative effect.

 

A lot of dvd users have asked me how much of the material in the DVD's to practice at a time. In addition to what I've recommended here on this blog in past Q&A postings, and

in addition to the Training Schedule in "Essential Guidelines for Flying Phoenix Training" on my website,

 

-- last Wednesday in my 2hr. evening Qigong class and just today in my morning Qigong private lesson, I taught the following--each for 10 minutes, with constant form corrections:

All 5 meditations of Volume One:

1. Monk Holding Pearl

2. Monk Holding Peach

3. Monk Gazing At Moon

4. Bending the Bows

5. Wind Through Treetops

 

Plus:

6. Wind Above the Clouds (vol.3) twice

7. Moonbeam Splashes on Water (vol.3) twice

 

 

I know that the FP Qigong is very effective and fast-acting, as many students and users of the Chi Kung For Health DVD series have reported and critiqued. Since you've practice a long time in various Qigong systems, i will add this additional commentary on FP: If you get this system under your belt (i.e., learn the material in Vols. 1 through Vol. 4...(vol. 5 and 7 are "extra" cultivation that deepen everything, but if you do Vols 1 to 4, you have gotten the basic foundation of the FP system. Besides a solid, tangible taste of the FP healing energy, you will also know enough about Qigong in general in order to evaluate practically all other medical Qigong methods.

 

let me know what happens as you progress with your training.

 

Best,

 

 

Terry Dunn

[nic chi]

Sifu Terry,

 

Here is a quick fact of my experience beginning to practice FP.

 

Before that a little bit about myself. I am 45, healthy, 6'2" and around 180 lbs, good stamina (doing cardio workout regularly + pilates twice a week). In average I run, on treadmill, 5 miles at about 8 min/mile average pace. Every now and then I go 6 or 7 miles.

I have no background on martial arts but interested in qi gong and tai chi for a while (reading books and watching dvds)

 

Here is what happened. One evening, before finding this thread or your instruction page on taichimania.com,

I did all 5 standing meditations from dvd 1. Don't remember exactly how long I did each but I believe for at least 5 minutes.

 

The following day I went for a run on the treadmill and easily reached my peak pace of 7:30 min/mile and from there easily (and eagerly) went on to something like 6:15 min/mile. I felt like my body could sustain an even faster pace but I was afraid to go faster. Was the first time I ran that fast and I felt like this was no coincidence.

 

What do you think? Does FP generate this kind of energy?

 

One thing I realized the next time I practiced FP. By misunderstanding I took an extra full breath in between breath percentages. I corrected it after that.

 

Thanks,

 

Nic

[zen-bear]

Sifu Terry,

 

Here is a quick fact of my experience beginning to practice FP.

 

Before that a little bit about myself. I am 45, healthy, 6'2" and around 180 lbs, good stamina (doing cardio workout regularly + pilates twice a week). In average I run, on treadmill, 5 miles at about 8 min/mile average pace. Every now and then I go 6 or 7 miles.

I have no background on martial arts but interested in qi gong and tai chi for a while (reading books and watching dvds)

 

Here is what happened. One evening, before finding this thread or your instruction page on taichimania.com,

I did all 5 standing meditations from dvd 1. Don't remember exactly how long I did each but I believe for at least 5 minutes.

 

The following day I went for a run on the treadmill and easily reached my peak pace of 7:30 min/mile and from there easily (and eagerly) went on to something like 6:15 min/mile. I felt like my body could sustain an even faster pace but I was afraid to go faster. Was the first time I ran that fast and I felt like this was no coincidence.

 

What do you think? Does FP generate this kind of energy?

 

One thing I realized the next time I practiced FP. By misunderstanding I took an extra full breath in between breath percentages. I corrected it after that.

 

Thanks,

 

Nic

 

 

Hello Nic,

 

Thanks for sharing your background and recent experience of the FP Meditations enabling your best running time ever.

 

Answer to your question: Yes, it is quite typical for Flying Phoenix Qigong practitioners to feel a boost in their energy reserves and enhanced athletic performance right after practicing FP.

 

As for your reported enhanced performance from just one session of the 5 basic Standing FP exercises: I have similar experiences reported to me over the years by students (and dvd users) who are martial artists, top athletes in various sports and professional athletes. As I related to Bill (Baguakid), I regularly use the FP exercises before and sometimes during a grueling long-distance bicycle ride or everyday during a backpacking trek. (In my own experience as a teacher, I was fortunate to have as a laboratory control group the Los Angeles Lakers in 2000 - 2001...when I trained them in basic Tai Chi and the FP qigong for 50 minutes at the start of every home practice session in Los Angeles. While I can't claim FP Qigong as the prime factor, it certainly was a contributing factor that year, as the Lakers won their 2nd World Championship in the NBA.

 

I will venture to explain the benefits you experienced were a function of: (1) Your already excellent state of health and fitness made more efficient and "frictionless" by the Flying Phoenix Qigong. For the functional definition of this style of qigong as given by Grandmaster Doo Wai is: "FP Qigong puts all the organ systems of the body under the regulation of the subconscious mind." so when you are doing an sustained workout such as running a couple of miles, a 5k or 10K, you enter that meditative "zone" that many long distance runners speak of. For that is precisely the same Zen state of "no-mind" or "not doing" that allows the energizing effects of the FP meditations to manifest.

(2) the fact that you have NOT had other Qigong training that require too much conscious focus or visualization to muster internal energy.[footnote A] And thus your system was the perfect tabula rasa. Your body and mind was unpolluted, and the power of the Flying Phoenix Qigong--which purely lies in its simplicity of method--was able to empower and enhance your athletic performance in a tangible and measurable way.

 

Thanks again for sharing.

 

Best,

 

Terry Dunn

 

P.S. Footnote A: Many systems of Qigong require elaborate and mindful visualizations in order to muster or generate supernormal levels of internal energy, qi. I do not favor these methods for athletes --especially pro athletes because some (not all) of those visualization methods can become mental hinderances or blockages to attaining peak performance. Because in peak athletic mode, you are accessing the primitive ("reptilian") mind that governs "fight or flight", and you don't want to program extraneous psychic or philosophical GUNK in there. As you know, the FP meditations work without any type of visualization: you do the breath control sequence and then hold posture and perform the movements. Then the energy comes. It just comes...as every practitioner has reported. btw, here is one of the nicest AND most accurate reviews of the effects of Flying Phoenix Qigong (Long Form Meditation) from another very happy DVD user who posted it on amazon.com:

 

Review

 

Just Do It!!! May 10, 2007 By Four Tusk Njoku "Njoku" (Philadelphia, USA) –

 

I could have given it 4 stars for still being in DVD. First, this is a superlatively beautiful form to watch and to perform. Secondly, this is an advanced practice. It would take most people at least 6 months of regular practice going through the first three phases of this practice to develop the skills to take on Volume 4. It takes a special committment and perhaps that is not you and it is definitely not most people, so I have found. I give out Part OneChi Kung For Health ( Qi Gong ) - Five Standing Meditations of this practice to everyone I know, and about 20% of them take it up and they are most grateful. This is a great practice for body, mind and spirit. It is holy; it is healthful; it is scientific. Yet, there are no words. Just do the movements, memorize the movements, do the breathing exercises before. Do not argue, do not think. Just do, and you will see results. How did the ancient Chinese discover this? I discovered Terry Dunn's series about 12years ago. They were then on clunky VHS, very hazy looking tape (he called them poor production values), but his instruction was just as detail oriented and precise. His voice was just as calming and the taiji background music, he still uses. This tape is much better than the first and the second editions, but it really needs to make it into DVD with all the great navigation. But, get Part 1 and Part 2 and Part 3 and this. You will get to know your body and mind like the back of your hand and have access to reserves of energy. You will radiate it like the sun to others around you.Chi Kung for Health ( Qi Gong ) - Six Seated MeditationsChi Kung for Health ( Qi Gong ) - Two Standing Meditations

SOURCE: Njoku, Philadelphia, PA

 

P.P.S. Nic, make sure you always perform the breath-control sequences for each FP exercise EXACTLY as given. If you make a mistake in the sequence, stop, take three breathes to count yourself out of the meditative state, walk around a little bit, and then start again from the top.

Edited April 26, 2010 by zen-bear

[Fu_dog]

Sifu Terry -

 

Actually, I have also experience the phenomenon of enhanced cardio ability that I'm convinced is realized through the practice of FP. For me, I love the rowing machine and it seems I can just go on and on, much more easily than I *should* be able to go based on my cardio training alone.

 

OK, on to my question: You had mentioned FP for people with an illness. I would like to get your recommendations on doing FP when sick. I had a virus last week that put me under the weather, and I practiced the "Monk Holds Pearl", as that's one you had mentioned earlier. This seemed to have made a big difference as it seemed to stop the virus from running it's normal course.

 

So, when ill, other than Monk Holds Pearl, are there any other FP exercises that you could recommend? That could be practiced lying down? Any cautions?

 

Now, back to this week, the FP continues to get stronger as I practice. In an earlier post you mentioned if the energy gets too strong to eat something. Well, I haven't had to do that, however, I am beginning to see that the FP energy can get unusually strong....I'll leave it at that for description. I am figuring the FP energy feels so very strong perhaps because my body/system simply isn't used to it.

 

This begs another question. When doing the hand movements, for me the energy feels stronger in some directions than others. Or maybe I should say different in some directions than others. For instance in some directions of hand movements the energy feels thicker and more difficult to move through while in other directions it feels smooth, calming, peaceful, smooth. Have other students experienced this? Is there anything you can attribute to this?

 

Thanks,

 

Lloyd

[Spirit Ape]

Hi Sifu Terry (Sihing)

 

Sorry was banned for 2 weeks, all is good here! Hope all is well?

 

check out my new website created by my student... www.wbbm.se

 

regards

Sifu Garry

[Fu_dog]

I took a look - Nice website Sifu Garry!

 

 

 

 

Also for the board...Sifu Terry is tied up this week with some business matters. Will return to the site when he gets them sorted out.

 

 

Lloyd

[Spirit Ape]

Hi Lloyd,

 

Thanks! Pass on my regards to Sifu Terry?

 

Garry

Edited April 28, 2010 by Spirit Ape

[rsalazar]

Hello All,

I was curious if anyone had a similar experience - I recently had a girlfriend complain about feeling pressure in her head and her heart speeding up when I practice FPCK - while I'm doing the exercises, I feel nothing out of the ordinary, I'm doing practice for about 20-30 min at a time - at the time she was in a separate room and only knew I was doing some sort of "exercise", she doesn't really know what chi kung is, she was not watching me at the time, she was coming out of the shower and dressing when she felt "funny", she wanted to leave the house as soon as I finished to get some air - I did this again and told her to lie down and relax if this happened again, which she did and felt much better - I haven't had a chance to test her reactions further, I just hope I'm not doing anything wrong.

Rene'

Edited April 28, 2010 by rsalazar

[Baguakid]

Hi Sifu Terry (Sihing)

 

Sorry was banned for 2 weeks, all is good here! Hope all is well?

 

check out my new website created by my student... www.wbbm.se

 

regards

Sifu Garry

 

Hi Garry,

 

If I may pass a couple constructive comments your way about the web site.

 

1. WBBM Qigong... As a consumer of and long time practitioner of Chinese Martial arts, I prefer to stay away from relabeled or "composed" systems. WBBM Qigong makes me feel like it was something created by WBBM. If this is not the case with WBBM perhaps you can add details describing what WBBM Qigong is.

 

2. The Burning Palm DVD Cover: Soong Tarn Ging.. Here perhaps you can add the Chinese Characters for this term. In this way someone with Chinese Language abilities can understand the underlying meaning.

 

This also goes for other Cantonese Terms listed such as: Wun Yuen Yat Hei Jeung, and Yau Kung Sup Baht Seung Toi Jeung. I know the original is in Cantonese which is quite difficult to understand just from the Cantonese "pinyin".. so Chinese characters would help a lot.

 

Other than that the website is fine. Very quick to load and not bogged down with over use of graphics.

 

Hope this helps,

 

Bill

[Circling Heaven]

Hi Bill,

 

I think I can speak for both Sifu Garry and myself when I say thank you for the kind words about the website and for the useful feedback. You make some good points that we will take onboard

 

The website is still in its early stages and things are being changed (and hopefully improved) from day to day.

 

1) About the WBBM Qigong, it is simply the name for our Qigong training program. It is not a system or method created by us. The material taught comes from traditional Yau Kung Mun, WYYHJ and Doo family methods. As a side note, we also teach the combative side of those arts in our Internal Chinese Martial Arts program but the WBBM Qigong class is for our students who just want to train for the health benefits. The teaching is always tailored to the individual so one person might focus on YKM internal methods while another might be better suited for learning the Burning Palm system etc. I hope that makes it a bit clearer and I'll add an explanation to the text on the site as well

 

2) I'll pass on that one for now, my knowledge of Chinese characters is quite terrible! But we will probably see if we can't add them to the site anyhow.

 

Thanks again for the feedback!

 

Chris