Flying Phoenix Chi Kung

[Baguakid]

Hi Bill,

For quite some time after this posting, I wanted to slightly modify and add to my first answer to your question. (It took me a long time to find our initial Q&A in the thread...I looked all over the thread, but finally just found it tonight). About breath retention and the Tao Tan Pai internal training:

My answer is that it depends on the level of the Nei-gung exercise.

I.) Again, each exercise of the Basic 31 either has breath retention or it doesn't. e.g., Exercises 5 and 6 and I think it's No. 11,12, and 13 (where you stand feet together, hold fist under elbow and then crane to the side and look down thru space between elbow and fist; and the one where one lifts the arms like Tai Chi opening and then holds two "elephant trunk" fists above the hairline while sinking the elbows-- require breath retention followed by swallowing saliva while contracting the anal sphincter muscle. I learned Circling Palms only one way, and that is to do it as slowly as possible, expanding one's exhalation counting at least "20 potatoes" on each 180-degree sweep. At the end of what we called the Short form, Power Yoga,the seated "L" meditation required breath retentions of course with each of the five repetitions. I was not taught a version of Circling Palms where the breath was retained during one's movements.

II.) In higher TTP neigung practices. There is breath retention and it is specific to each component of each neigung exercise.

III.) In the Five Forms or "Five Dragons", with the exception of Part Four, each of the five parts is typically done without breath retention. That is how we all learned it. Then, a number of years later, I intuitively discovered and then confirmed with my senior classmates that one can hold one's breath during each and every repetition of each of the 5 parts. In the first part, the breath is held (for up to 10 seconds or more) after the inhalation; In Part 2, the breath is held after the exhalation; In Part 3 the breath is held before and after each inhalation; in Part 4, the breath retention is done after the inhalation during the "press down"--just as it is in the "basic" version; In Part 5, the breath can be held after each inhalation.

 

I offer these advanced tips in the practice in this high-level neigung for the benefit of anyone who has already learned the Five Forms.

 

Regards,

 

Terry Dunn

 

 

Thank you Terry for that reply, clairity, and attention to detail. The idea I had in my mind regarding breath retention and the TTP exercises is a little different and I believe now that perhaps I mis-translated the information I got into what I thought it should be. At any rate, it's ok. I definately appreciate the time and effort you took to reply. Thank you.

 

I would like to comment though on the definition as I understand it when the words "hold the breath" are used. When we were kids we'd go swimming and of course, hold our breath under water. When we did that we took in as absolutely as much as we could to maximize our time under water and when doing so, a force could be felt on the lungs either from the fullness of air pushing out or the act of contracting the lungs while the air is being held. What I would like to point out what I've been shown is more of a "Pause" than a "hold". The difference being there's no feeling of force on the lungs, no contraction, and therefore "softer" in nature. Of course, as in #4 of the 5 dragons, the breath is in the dantian rather than lungs. I think a key to what I'm saying is in one of the 5 breaths from TTP (I don't have my notes in front of me so can't remember which one it is). Breath in, pause, breath out, pause. Dose this make sense? I hope so.

 

Also, from your post above regarding ZZ. I am suprised you trained with Bow Sim Mark. A good friend of mine, David Simeone, trained with her for quite a while and had nothing but good things to say about her.

 

Best,

 

Bill

[sunshine]

[Christoph]

things I've noticed so far

-increased sexual energy

-rapid healing of shoulders and back,hip/retraining neural pathways to let go of old trauma and regain natural,relaxed movement

-feelings of bliss

-Buddhist imagery during MSW meditations,odd since I've never been interested in Buddhism in the least bit

-sometimes "spontaneous" Qigong movements during the day

-hot,heavy feeling in hands

-desire/ability to practice for much longer time than any other system I've practiced

 

 

So basically everything that a great system is supposed to do.

I send my gratitude into the ether to close every session

[Fu_dog]

Sifu Terry -

 

At your suggestion, I will relate my experience of doing FP at the 7 month mark:

 

 

- Increased sexual energy. Seems some other posters have had this same experience.

 

- Improved digestion - I love to eat spicy-hot food, even though it doesn't agree with me. Since I have been practicing FP I have far fewer effects from this. (Yah I know. I should probably just stop eating spicy food.....but I don't see that happening.)

 

- Improved condition of skin - I have classic pale Irish American skin and have spent too much time in the sun. So for the past 7 or 8 years, I have been in the Dermatologist's office 4 or 5 times a year to have seborrheic keratoses removed. New ones would pretty much surface and grow all the time and required constant trips to the doctor to have them removed. I have not had to visit the Dermatologist once since I started FP. This is really a tangible sign of the healing qualities of FP

 

- Improved, younger looking complexion - this has been noted by a number of people, which as I've stated once before is great since I'm 55 years old. ;-)

 

- Balancing effect from stresses of the day - I am a businessman and work 12+ hours every day, often with travel. I find doing FP Seated #2 (50 30 10) just before bedtime to be excellent for de-stressing, which allows me to sleep soundly. (I remember you saying the first of the Advanced Seated FP (50 20 10) is also good for sound sleep and I can confirm it does, however, I am usually doing Seated #2 as this works for me.)

 

- On FP meditations where the hands move, the qi feels extremely "thick", effectively slowing my speed of movement. Often my hand movements become *very slow* as I allow the feel of the qi itself to tell me how fast to move.....and often it really is as slow as a "drifting sand dune".

 

 

In general, I have found doing the FP exercises in the exact sequence as you have demonstrated on your DVD's to be the most effective for me. I do as many as time allows every day.

 

And, I can distinguish the feel of the FP qi to be different than the qi generated by other qigong practices. It seems lighter, it's direction seems to move from lower abdomen to the head, it is more healing than anything I have experienced before.

 

There are many good qigong systems that promise healing, more energy, etc. That said, I have felt the effects more quickly, more tangibly from FP than anything else I have tried.

 

To be honest, from my perspective you really don't "hype" the FP style. However, it is really quite special. I am certainly enjoying both the FP practice as well as the benefits.

 

Again, thanks for all of your posts on this board....I have picked up many helpful hints that have allowed me to incrementally improve my practice.

 

 

Fu Dog

[zen-bear]

things I've noticed so far

-increased sexual energy

-rapid healing of shoulders and back,hip/retraining neural pathways to let go of old trauma and regain natural,relaxed movement

-feelings of bliss

-Buddhist imagery during MSW meditations,odd since I've never been interested in Buddhism in the least bit

-sometimes "spontaneous" Qigong movements during the day

-hot,heavy feeling in hands

-desire/ability to practice for much longer time than any other system I've practiced

 

 

So basically everything that a great system is supposed to do.

I send my gratitude into the ether to close every session

 

 

Hi Christoph,

 

Thanks for posting your explanation of your experience with the Flying Phoenix Qigong.

The various positive symptoms/effects you've described are all very standard for practitioners of the FP System--including the onset of Buddhist imagery during the Monk Serves Wine meditations. That's an excellent sign of your proper practice.

 

The oral tradition states that Flying Phoenix Qigong and all of the arts of GM Doo Wai

s Bai Fu Pai (White Tiger Kung-fu) was created by Feng Tao Teh of Ehrmeishan (Omei Mountain) in Szechuan Province in western China, a sacred mountain to the early Taoists and then later extremely sacred (to this day) to Buddhists worldwide. Ehrmeishan (like Wudangshan) is a very powerful ancient spiritual portal.

 

Sifu Terry Dunn

[zen-bear]

things I've noticed so far

-increased sexual energy

-rapid healing of shoulders and back,hip/retraining neural pathways to let go of old trauma and regain natural,relaxed movement

-feelings of bliss

-Buddhist imagery during MSW meditations,odd since I've never been interested in Buddhism in the least bit

-sometimes "spontaneous" Qigong movements during the day

-hot,heavy feeling in hands

-desire/ability to practice for much longer time than any other system I've practiced

 

 

So basically everything that a great system is supposed to do.

I send my gratitude into the ether to close every session

 

 

Hi Christoph,

 

Thanks for posting your explanation of your experience with the Flying Phoenix Qigong.

The various positive symptoms/effects you've described are all very standard for practitioners of the FP System--including the onset of Buddhist imagery during the Monk Serves Wine meditations. That's an excellent sign of your proper practice.

 

The oral tradition states that Flying Phoenix Qigong and all of the arts of GM Doo Wai

s Bai Fu Pai (White Tiger Kung-fu) was created by Feng Tao Teh of Ehrmeishan (Omei Mountain) in Szechuan Province in western China, a sacred mountain to the early Taoists and then later extremely sacred (to this day) to Buddhists worldwide. Ehrmeishan (like Wudangshan) is a very powerful ancient spiritual portal.

 

Sifu Terry Dunn

[zen-bear]

Hi Lloyd,

 

Thank you for sharing in detail your positive experience with the Flying Phoenix Qigong.

As with DanC's and Christoph's accounts, all the positive health effects that you describe are typical benefits of Flying Phoenix practice--everything from higher sexual energy, smoother metabolism, effective stress dissipation/management, and improved skin and complexion.

 

But I'm so glad to hear that FP practice has significantly healed and maintained your skin condition so that you don't have to go have the dermatologist do as many excisions as in the past.

 

I can share with you that at my age (55), when I miss FP practice for too long a stretch (5-6 days), my hair starts to gray a bit in certain spots. But the moment I resume concentrated FP practice, especially the seated Monk Serves Wine meditations, the gray subsides and jet black returns.[--Scout's honor] I myself have so much other internal art to practice that I often find myself only practicing the FP med's when I'm teaching it in my classes. But my cue to get back to regular FP practice is the hair-graying...not because I'm that vain--but because I want to keep up (follow suit) with the higher-level masters that I've seen who've managed to keep jet-black hair well into their 70's (GM Doo Wai, GM Share K. Lew, and GM Kuan Sai Hung). I recall way-back in the mid-80's when Share K. Lew met Kuan Sai Hung for the first time, Sifu Lew remarked to me how impressive Master Kuan was: "Master Kuan, he 63 years old, he look perfect--not one gray hair; he speak 6 languages, he even speak my village dialect form Toishan, etc."

 

I will continue commenting on your comments below in italics:

 

Sifu Terry -

 

At your suggestion, I will relate my experience of doing FP at the 7 month mark:

 

 

- Increased sexual energy. Seems some other posters have had this same experience.

 

- Improved digestion - I love to eat spicy-hot food, even though it doesn't agree with me. Since I have been practicing FP I have far fewer effects from this. (Yah I know. I should probably just stop eating spicy food.....but I don't see that happening.)

 

Yes, FP like all effective Qigong systems, does help regulate and improve metabolism and digestion. After my typical 2-hour Qigong class--especially on nights when we do more seated MSW med's, the students later report that they were extremely "regular" for the next day.

 

 

- Improved condition of skin - I have classic pale Irish American skin and have spent too much time in the sun. So for the past 7 or 8 years, I have been in the Dermatologist's office 4 or 5 times a year to have seborrheic keratoses removed. New ones would pretty much surface and grow all the time and required constant trips to the doctor to have them removed. I have not had to visit the Dermatologist once since I started FP. This is really a tangible sign of the healing qualities of FP

 

- Improved, younger looking complexion - this has been noted by a number of people, which as I've stated once before is great since I'm 55 years old. ;-)

I'm also 55. Tip: Each time I do two of the Monk Serves Wine meditations back to back (7 rep's of one followed by 7 reps of the next MSW), my face changes and looks much younger (I already have a "semper puerile" personality and energy, but the FP med's allow me to pass, some say, for someone in his late 30's.

 

- Balancing effect from stresses of the day - I am a businessman and work 12+ hours every day, often with travel. I find doing FP Seated #2 (50 30 10) just before bedtime to be excellent for de-stressing, which allows me to sleep soundly. (I remember you saying the first of the Advanced Seated FP (50 20 10) is also good for sound sleep and I can confirm it does, however, I am usually doing Seated #2 as this works for me.)

 

I'm glad that you found out for yourself that Monk Serves Wine #2 on Volume 2 (50 30 10) is a great aid to sound sleep. For brevity and efficiency, I just recommend the (50 20 10) Monk Serves Wine on Vol. 7 because it's a more advanced MSW meditation and its effects are a little bit stronger--i.e., you will heal more and sleep deeper.

 

 

- On FP meditations where the hands move, the qi feels extremely "thick", effectively slowing my speed of movement. Often my hand movements become *very slow* as I allow the feel of the qi itself to tell me how fast to move.....and often it really is as slow as a "drifting sand dune".

 

Excellent!--when you feel the "thickness" of the FP energy and when you finally no longer feel your body during the moving meditations, you are doing very good Qigong. Always go back and apply the ancient classic teaching--i.e., from hexagram #51 of the I ching: "Keeping Still; Keeping the back still until one no longer feels the body..."

[this oral teaching does not only apply to meditation in repose--but applies to all moving forms of meditation--i.e., e.g., Kung-Fu!]

 

In general, I have found doing the FP exercises in the exact sequence as you have demonstrated on your DVD's to be the most effective for me. I do as many as time allows every day.

I sequenced the Basic Standing FP Meditations in Volume One and Three in a way that's easiest and most efficient for beginners to grasp and retain the system and to feel the FP energy right away. Volume 4, the Long Form standing med, naturally is the capstone on all the shorter standing meditations. As for CKFH Vol. 2, I just presented the warm-up med's (which are powerful in and of themselves) and the Monk Serves Wine meditations, in the exact order that GM Doo Wai taught them to me--from the most basic one to most advanced ones (which will come in later DVD).

 

And, I can distinguish the feel of the FP qi to be different than the qi generated by other qigong practices. It seems lighter, it's direction seems to move from lower abdomen to the head, it is more healing than anything I have experienced before.

That's also a good sign of your progress--that you can discern the FP Qi as being different from intrinsic Qi and other forms of qigong-cultivated Qi.

Suggestion: Keep practicing on a daily basis, and at some point, when you feel particularly good with a superabundance of the FP Qi, capture your practice of some of the FP med's and MSW med's on a videocamera. You might be surprised at what shows up on the camera.

 

 

There are many good qigong systems that promise healing, more energy, etc. That said, I have felt the effects more quickly, more tangibly from FP than anything else I have tried.

 

To be honest, from my perspective you really don't "hype" the FP style. However, it is really quite special. I am certainly enjoying both the FP practice as well as the benefits.

The results of FP practive speak for themselves.

 

Again, thanks for all of your posts on this board....I have picked up many helpful hints that have allowed me to incrementally improve my practice.

 

 

Fu Dog

 

You're welcome.

Thanks again for sharing your experience so that other's might check out the Flying Phoenix.

 

Sifu Terry

[zen-bear]

Thank you Terry for that reply, clairity, and attention to detail. The idea I had in my mind regarding breath retention and the TTP exercises is a little different and I believe now that perhaps I mis-translated the information I got into what I thought it should be. At any rate, it's ok. I definately appreciate the time and effort you took to reply. Thank you.

 

I would like to comment though on the definition as I understand it when the words "hold the breath" are used. When we were kids we'd go swimming and of course, hold our breath under water. When we did that we took in as absolutely as much as we could to maximize our time under water and when doing so, a force could be felt on the lungs either from the fullness of air pushing out or the act of contracting the lungs while the air is being held. What I would like to point out what I've been shown is more of a "Pause" than a "hold". The difference being there's no feeling of force on the lungs, no contraction, and therefore "softer" in nature. Of course, as in #4 of the 5 dragons, the breath is in the dantian rather than lungs. I think a key to what I'm saying is in one of the 5 breaths from TTP (I don't have my notes in front of me so can't remember which one it is). Breath in, pause, breath out, pause. Dose this make sense? I hope so.

 

Also, from your post above regarding ZZ. I am suprised you trained with Bow Sim Mark. A good friend of mine, David Simeone, trained with her for quite a while and had nothing but good things to say about her.

 

Best,

 

Bill

 

 

Hi Bill,

 

thanks for explaining the nuances of your meaning of "breath retention". I understand what you're saying. I want to add that retention shouldn't feel hard or forced...and if one feels one blood pressure rise, the neck and throat righten and the pulse start to pound at the temples, one is probably not doing breath retention soft enough. With practice of the breath retentions in the Five Dragons over a long period of time (many years), one naturally develops a "softness" and smoothness to the breath retention. Do you not agree? "practice makes perfect" true dat?

 

yes, I studied with Madame Bow Sim Mark in Boston in 1980--during my second year of graduate school. Although it was for just one year, that one year was a very intense and seminal year in my martial arts career because school was intense and my Saturday classes at her Chinese Wushu Research inst. in Chinatown was a much needed getaway,de-stresser, and normalizer. To this day, I still use many of Master Bow Sim Mark's stretching and warm-up exercises and her equivalent of Zhan Zhuang training in all kung-fu stances.

 

Your friend's name, David Simeone, doesn't ring a bell--but it has been 30 yrs. Students that I knew well were Chi, Siu, Frank (tall), and of course, her son and now film-star Donnie Yen, who I run into occasionally out here in L.A. I knew Donnie when he was only 15 yrs old (and getting into a regular scrapes with young Chinatown punks).

 

Best,

 

Terry

[Baguakid]

Thanks Terry for your reply and I agree with all you wrote. You're much better at articulating your point than I am with the written word.

 

Let me ask, I will be in the SoCal area (Orange County) with my wife for 6 days coming up (July 22nd through the 28th). Is there a place I can purchase your DVDs locally rather than purchasing them online?

 

Thanks,

 

Bill

[zen-bear]

Thanks Terry for your reply and I agree with all you wrote. You're much better at articulating your point than I am with the written word.

 

Let me ask, I will be in the SoCal area (Orange County) with my wife for 6 days coming up (July 22nd through the 28th). Is there a place I can purchase your DVDs locally rather than purchasing them online?

 

Thanks,

 

Bill

 

 

Hi Bill,

 

There are a few retailers in Los Angeles that carry all my DVD's, but I don't know about Orange County. What part of Orange County will you be in?

 

I don't have a permanent studio that I run; I just rent studio space for my classes.

 

If you happen to come up to Los Angeles, you can visit any of my Tai Chi or qigong classes and get the DVD's directly from me. Or if you don't want to purchase them online, you can get the prices from my website and mail a check to me at:

 

Interarts Productions

1112 Montana Ave. Suite 707

Santa Monica, CA 90403

 

and give me the address where you want me to mail them to.

 

Thanks for your interest.

 

 

Terry

 

P.S. oh btw, this is harking back to that old posting back around Dec. or January: I remember the person you mentioned from the Taoist Sanctuary in San Diego who you said had told you about breath retention being key to the TTP nei-gung, Walter Capps. He attended a number of the Tai Chi retreats that the Sanctuary used to sponsor for Master Abraham Liu during the 80's and I think he worked on staff at the Taoist Sanctuary. I remember him well. Nice guy. Tall, sandy blonde hair, fair skin.

[nic chi]

Sify Terry,

 

Is Wave Hands Like Clouds (circling exercise) the warm-up exercise on your tai chi DVD? Great production, by the way. Out of a few I checked out years ago yours resonated with me the most.

 

Will it (an for that matter any of your tai chi warm up exercises) interfere/hinder/help with the practice of FPCK?

 

Best,

 

Nic

Edited July 13, 2010 by nic chi

[rsalazar]

Hello Sifu Terry and Everyone,

I just wanted to chime in with my experience with FPCK thus far - I've only been practicing about 5 months, and my practice has just been including a small portion of the exercises that have "clicked" with me so far (seated #2(50,30,10), MSW3(90,80,50,20), and Monk holds pearl (50,40,30,20,10) of course, I haven't begun to scratch the surface, but for me it's a start for daily practice)- I've been intrigued that a boost in my immunity in general has been the most overt thing I've noticed, usually I catch a small cold at least a couple of times during the winter, I've felt vulnerable in general to "wind invasion" in the past, but these have been very conspicuously absent over the past few months. For me, this is very peculiar.

 

I also have noticed I can do MSW3 at night and I can still go to sleep easily.

 

I know that Sifu Terry has mentioned a negative impact of sudden shock and I live near a busy street. Is it still possible to make a suggestion to the subconscious that no sudden sounds will impact the system before practice, would this prevent problems inherent with sirens going off nearby?

 

Best,

Rene'

[zen-bear]

Hello Sifu Terry and Everyone,

I just wanted to chime in with my experience with FPCK thus far - I've only been practicing about 5 months, and my practice has just been including a small portion of the exercises that have "clicked" with me so far (seated #2(50,30,10), MSW3(90,80,50,20), and Monk holds pearl (50,40,30,20,10) of course, I haven't begun to scratch the surface, but for me it's a start for daily practice)- I've been intrigued that a boost in my immunity in general has been the most overt thing I've noticed, usually I catch a small cold at least a couple of times during the winter, I've felt vulnerable in general to "wind invasion" in the past, but these have been very conspicuously absent over the past few months. For me, this is very peculiar.

 

I also have noticed I can do MSW3 at night and I can still go to sleep easily.

 

I know that Sifu Terry has mentioned a negative impact of sudden shock and I live near a busy street. Is it still possible to make a suggestion to the subconscious that no sudden sounds will impact the system before practice, would this prevent problems inherent with sirens going off nearby?

 

Best,

Rene'

 

Hi Rene,

 

'Glad to hear you are feeling the benefits of the FP practice. The particular method of energy cultivation in Flying Phoenix Qigong--the "formula" of coordinating eyes, mind, movement and breath--is very simple, yet very sophisticated--as my friend Sifu Jonathan Wang (Master Daniel Wang's son) commented. That is why you can experience strengthened immunity and higher energy levels from doing just 3 meditations per session on a regular basis--and not even on a daily basis (although daily would be ideal).

 

With regards to sudden shocks and loud noises interrupting your FP meditations, it is always ideal to practice in solitude and complete silence. But ambient noise in one's environment (traffic, subway trains, neighbors net door, etc.) is often unavoidable depending on where you live...and background noise causes no harm and won't detract from the FP cultivation. The most important thing, however, is to practice in a protected area so that no one and no thing can run into you or bump into you while you are doing the FP meditations. Because the FP meditations so highly sensitize the nervous system and energizes the body on a cellular level, getting suddenly bumped or struck while meditating the FP exercises can seriously harm your internal energy. (The damage could be equivalent to be struck by an internal blow--even though the person or thing bumping into you may have no training in internal arts). Thus this was a strong warning that GM Doo Wai gave all of us when he taught the FP Qigong system. And it's worth reiterating on a regular basis...so that you don't lapse and forget this safeguard.

 

Thanks for contributing your experience.

 

Best,

 

Terry Dunn

[zen-bear]

Sify Terry,

 

Is Wave Hands Like Clouds (circling exercise) the warm-up exercise on your tai chi DVD? Great production, by the way. Out of a few I checked out years ago yours resonated with me the most.

 

Will it (an for that matter any of your tai chi warm up exercises) interfere/hinder/help with the practice of FPCK?

 

Best,

 

Nic

 

 

Hi Nic,

 

Yes Wave Hands Like Clouds done in a stationery bow stance (called the "Circling Exercise") is the warm-up exercise on my Tai Chi for Health dvd's. It was emphasized by Master Abraham Liu in his training as the most important exercise outside of the classical Forms.

 

Thanks for your compliment on the DVD.

 

Answer: No, Wave Hands Like Clouds or any of the warm-up exercises will certainly NOT interfere or degrade one's practice of the FP Qigong. IF you do them in your Tai Chi training, your health and grounding will be that much better, and you will only develop greater capacity, conductivity and awareness to consciously channel the FP Qi.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Terry Dunn

[VCraigP]

Sifu Terry

 

thanks for quick service.

 

I am beginning to study FP DVD #1.

 

I hope to have a practice log soon to detail my experience.

 

My question; Do you have any comment about engaging in practice of other systems of qigong alongside FP? I have fairly extensive experience in other qigong styles, including Ermei lineage forms. Although as you may know just because a style is named after a mountain doesnt mean it is directly lineage related.

 

On another tangent I know you have indicated this form as coming from GM Doo Wai (sp?).

Would you be able to discuss further the lineage as it comes down from your master? If you already covered this fully earlier in this thread maybe I missed it.

 

thanks for your continuing contribution to this thread.

 

PS - I hope you sorted out your website glitch by now, thanks for the personal service.

 

Craig

[zen-bear]

Sifu Terry

 

thanks for quick service.

 

I am beginning to study FP DVD #1.

 

I hope to have a practice log soon to detail my experience.

 

My question; Do you have any comment about engaging in practice of other systems of qigong alongside FP? I have fairly extensive experience in other qigong styles, including Ermei lineage forms. Although as you may know just because a style is named after a mountain doesnt mean it is directly lineage related.

 

On another tangent I know you have indicated this form as coming from GM Doo Wai (sp?).

Would you be able to discuss further the lineage as it comes down from your master? If you already covered this fully earlier in this thread maybe I missed it.

 

thanks for your continuing contribution to this thread.

 

PS - I hope you sorted out your website glitch by now, thanks for the personal service.

 

Craig

 

 

Hello Craig,

 

I've written in earlier posts that for BEST RESULTS, one should focus solely on the Flying Phoenix Qigong when one is learning it. Once established, and one has a clear sense and understanding of how the FP Qi cultivation works, it can be practiced alongside other systems--although you don't want to mix other internal exercises into a session of FP training.

 

I'm always curious to know what Ehrmei arts you have experience in. There are many, many arts that hail from that sacred mountain--or are just named after it.

 

My teacher and source of the Flying Phoenix Qigong knowledge was Grandmaster Doo Wai, the 6th generation grandmaster of the Bak Fu Pai, or White Tiger Kung-fu system. The Flying Phoenix Celestial Healing Qi Meditations is the medical qi art under the Bak Fu Pai umbrella,which covers a vast amount of powerful internal martial and healing arts. The first generation ancestor learned the BFP arts from Feng Do Duk (Feng Tao Teh in Mandarin) who is acknowledged as a legendary saint and yogin at Ehrmeishan. There are ancient plaques commemorating him in the Ehrmeishan region.

 

GM Doo Wai's father was a very close friend of the last great grandmaster of the White Eyebrow (Bak Mei) system, Cheung Lai Cheun, and he exchanged great amount of knowledge with CLC. Much more knowledgable about the link between BFP and Bak Mei is Sifu Garry Hearfield in Australia, who was contributing to this blog before I found out about it and joined. You should contact Sifu Hearfield if you are interested in learning about the Bak Fu Pai lineage of GM Doo Wai.

 

Thanks for your interest. I'm glad you started working with the DVD.

 

Regards,

 

Sifu Terry Dunn

 

P.S. got the webpage glitch finally fixed, too. It was quite debugging chore of a badly corrupted file.

[Spirit Ape]

Hi Terry Sifu (Sihing),

 

Apart from Fung Do Duk its been passed down within the family I think Doo Tin Yin was the ancestor that learnt BFP from FDD, BUT it wouldnt be known much at all as it was purley a family secret system no outsiders was allowed to see or learn it. The Bak Mei comes from Bak Mei Dao Ren to hung Mo (redhair daoist), and was absorbed into the Doo Family and has nothing to do with other Bak Mei family tree's like CLC or HHH of Yau Kung Mun. This is what attracted me to learning it completely is that it may share some name of forms but the form is completely different and uses complete different energy to what I have learnt in other Bak Mei / YKM arts. It also has seated, standing, moving meditations, cotton body (iron body) health, 4 cutting hands of the willow leaf palm, p/eye + Dim ma/yuet points, cotton & iron palm, 8 methods of divine force, 2 man toi sau and more. So it would be something like this asa family tree - Bak Mei Dao Ren, Hung Mor (red hair daoist), doo family grand father, doo wai's father, GMDW, and then Myself.

 

Your Flying Phoenix was indeed a healing Chi kung system that FDD attained through meditation and was visited by a Goddess and I think im right that after he woke so many years had passed. Your productions are the best out there mate, wish I was that talented to get my dvds done in that quality.

 

regards

Sifu Garry

[zen-bear]

[sunshine]

Thankx much, Sifu Terry

 

looking forward to your further thoughts... and much gusto for the tons of work for you.

 

I myself am in the middle of a move and new job situation...

 

for the moment:

 

in your experience of the Samdhic State:

 

Is there an "I-feeling" or "I-identity"?

 

sincerely

 

Harry

 

 

 

Hi Harry,

--just to let you know that I haven't forgotten you!...I need a few days before I can respond to your questions because they are uniquely philosophical...and I am presently badly buried by a ton of vexing work that i can't set aside.

 

But for now I will start by answering the last one, which the easiest. And this is just my personal opinion:

 

Answer: It all depends what your agenda--your personal predilection--is (a la Castanaeda). "Nothing" can certainly be one of those things "beyond the samadhic state." Or something, anything.

If you experience the samadhic state to be the total absorption of consciousness with Being, with Suchness, Ultimate Reality, the Infinite Event, the Big Bang, the Godhead, or what I like to call the Ever-Conscious, you can absorb yourself in anything you want--finite or infinite. If you choose to stay in the samadhic state, you can constantly find "all of Creation in the palm of your hand" as Chang Po-Tuan writes, or as William Blake puts it:

 

see a world in a grain of sand,

And a heaven in a wild flower,

Hold infinity in the palm of your hand,

And eternity in an hour.(--a millisecond, actually--Blake chose "hour" because it rhymes with flower)

 

--or one can depart from the knowledge of Oneness with Ultimate Reality and resume everyday life deluded by the ego and the ego-trappings of the consensus reality (maya)..."and live and die, and whirl upon the wheel, and hug and kiss its spokes of agony, its tire of tears, its nave of nothingness."

 

whatever you do, do it with gusto.

 

Sifu Terry

[VCraigP]

Sifu Terry and Sifu Garry

 

Thanks for your responses to my lineage question, among others. I have since read through this thread in full again and gleaned more which should keep my monkey mind happy for a while.

 

I started an account of daily practice which should prove interesting over time.

 

Now for a couple of simple questions which I mulled over for a while before posting:

 

Questions are arising for me about the breathing patterns.

In a relaxed state I can easily do close to a minute for one full in/out breath without pausing. Should I breath this slowly for the practice, specifically the beginning breathing pattern (three breaths followed by the percentage breath).

 

In bending the bows should I go as slow as possible and breath as slow as possible while keeping the breath linked to the movement? Or should I try to uncouple the breath from the movement which should be "like shifting sand"? My habits lead me to want to connect the breath with the movement, although I am fairly sure Sifu Garry mentioned to breath without connection to the movement.

 

Possibly the fact that in the warm ups there is breath/movement connection has contributed to this confusion.

 

Thanks for your time.

 

Craig

[zen-bear]

Sifu Terry and Sifu Garry

 

Thanks for your responses to my lineage question, among others. I have since read through this thread in full again and gleaned more which should keep my monkey mind happy for a while.

 

I started an account of daily practice which should prove interesting over time.

 

Now for a couple of simple questions which I mulled over for a while before posting:

 

Questions are arising for me about the breathing patterns.

In a relaxed state I can easily do close to a minute for one full in/out breath without pausing. Should I breath this slowly for the practice, specifically the beginning breathing pattern (three breaths followed by the percentage breath).

 

In bending the bows should I go as slow as possible and breath as slow as possible while keeping the breath linked to the movement? Or should I try to uncouple the breath from the movement which should be "like shifting sand"? My habits lead me to want to connect the breath with the movement, although I am fairly sure Sifu Garry mentioned to breath without connection to the movement.

 

Possibly the fact that in the warm ups there is breath/movement connection has contributed to this confusion.

 

Thanks for your time.

 

Craig

 

Craig,

 

You're welcome. I'm glad that you're giving the Flying Phoenix Qigong a try.

 

Answers to your question:

1. As long as you're relaxed and mindful, you can take 1 minute or longer to do the breath control sequences. I sometimes do it that slowly, as I developed 1 minute+ breath cycles from years of doing Tai Chi Ruler (mostly). Make sure you do 3 full breathes before each breath-control sequence and always end the meditation with 3 full breaths.

 

w. Yes, Sifu Garry is correct, in the FP system and in the several other Bok Fu Pai internal systems that I practice, DO NOT connect any part of the breath cycle to any particular movement. With Bending the Bows, DO NOT try to coordinate inhalation with rising or exhalation with sinking movements. IT IS NOT NECESSARY--and may just cause you to strain your breathing. Just do the movements as slowly as possible--approaching the speed of a "shifting sand dune" and breathe normally. If 1 breath per minute (30 sec. to inhale, 30 sec. to exhale) is hour normal rate without any strain, then breathe at that rate.

 

Good Luck. And thanks for considerately starting a separate discussion thread called Flying Phoenix Qigong Practice, as there are quite a few FP practitioners using this blog at this time and Sifu Garry and I want to hear from and respond to everyone who has a question on this thread. (At some Point, the management of this site will limit the thread to the first 200 postings--or the most 200 recent postings. So far, we've been lucky as more than that number continues to be posted and added to.

 

I'll respond to your comments on the FP Qigong Practice thread whenver I can.

 

Best,

 

Sifu Terry

[zen-bear]

Thankx much, Sifu Terry

 

looking forward to your further thoughts... and much gusto for the tons of work for you.

 

I myself am in the middle of a move and new job situation...

 

for the moment:

 

in your experience of the Samdhic State:

 

Is there an "I-feeling" or "I-identity"?

 

sincerely

 

Harry

 

Hi Harry,

 

good luck with your move and new job situation.

 

Answer to your question:

"In the samadhic state, is there any I-feeling or I-identity?"

 

No of course not, you knucklehead. Are you trying to test me for admission to the "dumbest meditators cult in the world" with this as its logo: ???!!!

 

Not only is there no "I-feeling" or "I-identity" there is no "I" period!

 

Please take no offense, Harry, I'm just answering with gusto. Are you German, by the way, since I know you're writing from Germany? Or an ex-pat? Just curious, because you questions about the philosophical implications of FP Meditation training is very German-like in its precision. German is a superior language to discuss western philosophy, but as you've discovered already in pasts postings, it runs you into problems in trying to map and discuss eastern yogic philosophies.

 

At any rate, i will share my earliest experiences of samadhi with you and other tao bums: First time was totally unexpected. it was my senior year in college and I had just gotten back from summer break. I had been doing So. Shaolin Kung-fu for just 3 years and Tao Tan Pai Kung Fu for one year and had just learned how to meditate from my Master Share K. Lew's classes conducted by his sr. student at the time, John Davidson. I sat down at on the floor at the foot of my bed and just did quiet sitting (half-lotus, hands below tan-tien in what we call "earth meditation position"). Suddenly a surge of energy shot up my spine and kind of exploded through the top of my brain and skull and "I" left my body most blissfully. My consciousness was very startled because it was the first time it had left the body (other than in dreamstate), but otherwise, the experience was total bliss. And there i was, out of my body, floating around the top of my dorm room at silliman college on the 4th floor above the Grove Street archway. Looking back down at my own body that was seated. That experience wasn't actually samadhic, but an out-of-body yogic experience that I later surmised was a nice prelude to samadhi. About 3 years later, after I graduated from college, I was doing Tao Tan Pai Basic Neigung exercises religiously along with the TTP Kung fu forms (tiger, dragon, monkey, snake, crane)--the Basic 31 execises, Shen Exercise, 9 Flowers, Six Stars, and the Five Dragons. One day, while practicing the third "flower"(or part) of a neigung exercise known as "The Nine Flowers" in front of a mirror in the hallway of my parents home in the San Fernando Valley (which dates it at around 1978), the image of myself in the mirror turned "film negative" and then slowly disappeared and the mirror remained blank and totally void throughout the rest of the practice --until I stopped to take a shower between the 8th and the 9th Meditation, as prescribed in the 9 Flowers since the Tang Dynasty. Since then,I slip in and out of the samadhic state while practicing almost any type of Qigong--TTP or GM Doo Wai's BFP internal arts. But one sure-fire method to access the samadhic state for me has always been the TTP Nine Flowers. It not only facilitates samadhi, but it also empowers one to see entities on many planes of existence.

 

Best,

 

Terry Dunn

 

P.S. Harry, the best words I have to describe the samadhic state were first uttered by Sergeant Schultz of the TV series, "Hogan's Heroes": "I see nothing, nothing...I hear nothing... nothing... COLONEL HOGAN!!!!!!!

Edited July 20, 2010 by zen-bear

[Fu_dog]

Sifu Terry -

 

Another question. On a longer practice, do you recommend doing standing FP before seated, or seated before standing?

 

I am guessing it may make a difference, so thought I would ask.

 

By the way, the last two times I have done seated FP (with eyes closed as per the practice) I have at times seen flashes of light and at other times some crazy colors dancing as I do the MSW meditations. It was very cool actually. I recall you said don't open the eyes during the practice of a FP meditation.....and while this was going on, I would not have wanted to, because for sure it would have stopped the images.

 

Thanks in advance for your advice regarding my question.

 

 

Fu-dog

[zen-bear]

Sifu Terry -

 

Another question. On a longer practice, do you recommend doing standing FP before seated, or seated before standing?

 

I am guessing it may make a difference, so thought I would ask.

 

By the way, the last two times I have done seated FP (with eyes closed as per the practice) I have at times seen flashes of light and at other times some crazy colors dancing as I do the MSW meditations. It was very cool actually. I recall you said don't open the eyes during the practice of a FP meditation.....and while this was going on, I would not have wanted to, because for sure it would have stopped the images.

 

Thanks in advance for your advice regarding my question.

 

 

 

Hi Lloyd,

 

It's totally up to you whether you do seated FP med's first or the standing ones. In general, the standing meditations are more powerful than the seated ones. But the seated FP med's have more tangibly soothing/energizing effects on the upper body and brain--especially the more advanced Monk Serves Wine meditations in Vol. 7.

 

I normally practice the standing FP exercises first, followed by the seated exercises--especially during an evening practice right before sleeping. But sometimes, when I know I have a busy and active day ahead and have limited time, I will just do seated meditations in the morning for the extra calm and grounding.

 

In my Qigong classes, which these days are 7-9 pm, I always start with the standing exercises and conclude with the seated MSW exercises.

 

Best,

 

Terry Dunn

 

Fu-dog

 

P.S. Hi Lloyd, many days later, I realize that I didn't respond to your account of seeing flashes of light and color in meditation. Lots of practitioners have reported all shorts of light shows while doing meditation with eyes closed and the FP Qigong in particular. I have one long-term student in los Angeles who sees lights and when her eyes are open, sees human energy fields in vivid colors. I myself don't see in colors, but in varying textures of transparent, colorless layers. Indian, Tibetan and Chinese (and other traditions) other yogic literature have some treatment of colorful lights and dramatic dream-like visions while in meditation. Here is link to one Indian analysis/categorization of "visions" with a little blurb about lights at the bottom of page.

 

http://www.scribd.com/doc/2678894/Visions-in-Meditation

(sorry, this is the only thing I found and it's not great.)

I personally don't lend any weight or validity to this cookbook-type of analysis--it's the same rote and blind ascribing-assignation of "meaning" to dreams that crumby dream books do all the time. Every human psyche and consciousness is unique and utilizes various symbols according to language,culture and spiritual predilection (also diet, level of war, street crime, hours in front of a TV and drug-ingestion). And like rendering a holistic cure in Chinese medicine to a patient, where the healer develops the cure/remedy ON THE PERSON IN REAL TIME WHEN HE/SHE'S IN FRONT OF HIM, so the analysis or clarification of a vision is done with the person in front of you so you can see and read his entire karma, energy system, psychological processes, etc. Having done many-many years in guided meditation, dreamwork, hypnotherapy (using hypnotic regressions (as both subject and operator), and worked in holistic counseling a good deal, I believe in "analyzing" or giving meaning to a person's vision by letting their subconscious knowledge of the meaning rise to consciousness. Unless it's a spiritual visitation from an entity (and that does happen--such as the Buddhistic images that another contributor to this thread reported when he first started practicing FP), the "vision" comes from one's own mind. Therefore you know the meaning at a certain level. Or there may be no meaning at all to a vision or light show--abstract, bizarre, nonsensical visions and "venting dreams" happen all the time (on a daily basis); it's the mind doing "house-cleaning."

Anyway, got carried away there a bit.

but one thing for sure, FP qigong facilitates deep, deep states of mind-body relaxation, altered states of consciousness--normally Higher States of Consciousness (or HSC as coined by Daniel Goleman)-- and is a great stirrer-upper of your subconscious and unconscious Mind.

Regards,

Terry

Edited August 6, 2010 by zen-bear

[zen-bear]

This came in from Nic Chi on a more recently-started FP discussion thread:

 

 

I'd like to share this bit of experience on breathing and also get sifu Terry's opinion.

 

Doing my practice very early morning, I start somewhere between 5:30 to 5:45 and practice for 45-50 minutes.

 

After the warm-up I calibrate my breath for a minute or two. I increasingly take fuller breaths (in a relaxed manner) until I get to a point where I start by breathing into lower ab, then mid ab and then back and chest.

I feel my rib cage expanding and a good feeling of the full breath.

 

I normally start with monk gazing and do monk holding peach (found this sequence to be easier on the legs) then first sitting med on DVD #2 and bending the bows. Breathing is slow, deep and full. Good feeling.

 

Here is the interesting bit, for the past few practices I noticed that on monk holding peach my whole upper body gets stiff and just can't take a nice relaxed full breaths. This morning after I noticed this again I stopped and moved on. Breathing was better on the rest of the meds.

 

Nic

 

 

Hi Nic,

 

The stiffness in the whole upper body that you experienced is just something to work through. Somaticized stress/corporeal tension is sometimes fixed to a particular part of the body, but will sometimes move from place to place as one practices a Qigong system. With the FP system, eventually, the tension will all get "cornered" and dissipated by the practice. So just locate and chase down the tension and let the FP energy dissipate it--with conscious mental focus, if you care to (not mandatory). Just doing the FP Practice will melt it over time.

 

Rest assured there is nothing in the Flying Phoenix Celestial Healing Chi Meditation system that creates or adds tension to the body. Remember what divine source it comes from -- per Sifu Garry Hearfield's and my identical recall of GM Doo Wai's oral history.

 

Since I started teaching it in 1995, everyone so far without exception reports feeling reduced tension and greater facility with the FP energy after 6 months of regular practice.

 

Enjoy your practice.

 

Sifu Terry Dunn