Flying Phoenix Chi Kung

[Antares]

Both Sifu Terry and Sifu Garry wrote several times in this thread that the best approach is "just do it". Sifu Terry wrote this long before you began posting here.

Sifu Terry wrote clearly at the beginning of the thread that FP did not fit into any traditional roadmap.

 

Incorrect. I will cite ST words that FPCK is part of BFP arts and should be practiced along with other kung fu otherwise it has some side effects. As for maps ST refers to taoists and buddhist books saying all his serious students must read these books.

I wanted to clarify what is there in common and how it can help. There were not answers but that's okey. I don't say you must answer but I say it is open thread and people should not be aggressive. As many other people have same questions!

i did not notice "things went down". This is your own perspective

[Antares]

Okey lads. Let's chill. I was in the mountains last days and wanted to let go my thoughts about all this and I wanted to start FP again with fresh mind but I happened to read last posts and don't feel i can benefit from it right now. I just do not feel right myself with this aggressiveness and I think I should not post here any longer as you already say i am disrespectful freak with irrelevant questions .

 

I wanted to hear other people experience and to see how people benefit from it. I do not care who how ling practice but I care how people pure and honest. If somebody getting agitated easy I do not care what kind of lights he can see.

 

If somebody does some statements then I can ask to elaborate but if there is no answer and only abuse I do not feel right with it.

 

If somebody refers to taoist and buddist books and then saying that nothing in common I do not feel it's right.

 

Just my 2cents

[Bubbles]

Both Sifu Terry and Sifu Garry wrote several times in this thread that the best approach is "just do it". Sifu Terry wrote this long before you began posting here.

Sifu Terry wrote clearly at the beginning of the thread that FP did not fit into any traditional roadmap.

 

Incorrect. I will cite ST words that FPCK is part of BFP arts and should be practiced along with other kung fu otherwise it has some side effects. As for maps ST refers to taoists and buddhist books saying all his serious students must read these books.

I wanted to clarify what is there in common and how it can help. There were not answers but that's okey. I don't say you must answer but I say it is open thread and people should not be aggressive. As many other people have same questions!

i did not notice "things went down". This is your own perspective

 

Antares

 

I was talking about theoretical classical roadmap we can find in others known chinese arts like TCM etc..

 

See Sifu Terry's post # 89 : http://thetaobums.com/topic/12639-flying-phoenix-chi-kung/?p=171948

 

You are misquoting Sifu Terry about the possible ill effects of practicing Qigong without a martial background. Please see and read carefully # 93 http://thetaobums.com/topic/12639-flying-phoenix-chi-kung/?p=174514. Sifu Terry is not talking about FP but about others Qigong systems.

 

All a beginner need to begin FP practice and to receive the benefits is out there is this thread if one is taking the time to read carefully it and after emptying one's cup.

 

It's up to you.

 

I will ask you again to respect this thread and Sifu Terry's words.

Thanks you

[Leif]

Antares this post from 2011 is worth reading

http://thetaobums.com/topic/12639-flying-phoenix-chi-kung/?p=297619

(covers a lot about in which ways exactly FP doesn't fit traditional roadmap, mixing systems, and more)

[Antares]

Bubbles. You gave example of how we easy misunderstand each other. I did not mean that post you are referring, I will find what I meant. But according to your link ST says:

 

Like kung-fu systems, the complete truth of a qigong art is never taught in class, never completely recorded in writing, but transmitted to advanced students through oral teachings, symbols, and other telepathic means, depending on the teacher.

 

So, there is "transmission". This looks now like we are playing games, don't you think so? Example how people can say diff things. This was relevant to the thread but my question was absolutely irrelevant, arrogant and going off topic! Nice! But I do not care anymore because as I said it is like playing games, people are not responsible for their words. Forgive me if I am incorrect in some statements but for me it is like that, now we are going arguing, linking, and quoting....then i am going to be abused again . One day it is must read taoist books, another - nothing to do with it at all.

Edited July 20, 2013 by Antares

[Antares]

Also I just have found next ST words:

 

 

While GM Doo Wai’s high healing skill was under the spiritual channel of the Flying Phoenix Qigong tradition, and his high martial prowess functioned under the spiritual channel of his ancestors, which called a “trunk”, this type of spiritual “channeling” differs greatly from the spiritual channel of ordained Taoist priests like Masters Share K. Lew and Kuan Sai Hung, whose Taoist sects avail them of the supernatural power of their temple’s respective guardian spirits

 

Thus there is "spiritual channel" which is "trunk" of the tradition, but another day they say it is DOGMA and ST says thanks to SG that he clarifies "misconceptions" about BFP family traditions and other taoist spiritual traditions. Excuse my arrogance please, but what is diff between what Jerry Johnson said and these words of ST? One day you say direct transmission from Tao, another day of "spiritual channeling".

 

This is not bc I am disrespectful, I am very respectful to any authentic lineage. But just previous page I was abused by ST who said how I am arrogant. Was that respectful to me? Was not that insulting my personality ?

What I should feel after this? How respectful you are to other people that you asking for respect to yourself? Just think about this

Edited July 20, 2013 by Antares

[Bubbles]

I am not playing games at all here, Antares.

Sifu Terry has been very clear from the very beginning of this thread and very generous in explaining all we need to start FP practice.

Things are very simple for me and for most contributors of this thread; but for some reason it is not for you.

When Sifu Terry says "Just do it", you don't. When Sifu Terry says no transmission like you will find in other systems, you don't want want to hear and believe. You take Sifu Terry's words and twist them completely to your own convenience.

Cihan doesn't live in L.A, didn't meet Sifu Terry, but still considers himself as his student and take all his words as one would take the words of his teacher in a traditional relationship: he listens, trusts and practices. It is the same with Fu_doggy and for most of the contributors of this thread. That's why this thread is special. It is not just another thread where people chit/chat and throw whatever pops in their mind without thinking about how this could fit in the thread. This thread is a place where people can learn from Sifu Terry and share their experience, it is not a railway station.

So most of us have a kind of respect for this thread, for Sifu Terry and for his instructions. If you consider yourself as his student , and he says: just do it. You do it. If he says, no classical taoist map can explain FP, that's all we need to know. If he says, no transmission, that's all about it.

This is what I call respect. And I ask you for the third time to be mindful of that. You are welcome to come here and learn, ask questions and listen carefully to the answers given to you either in the past posts or directly to you by Sifu Terry and Sifu Garry. If you don't come here for that, then you are not welcome. It is nothing personal, it is just respect.

[Antares]

When Sifu Terry says "Just do it", you don't. When Sifu Terry says no transmission like you will find in other systems, you don't want want to hear and believe. You take Sifu Terry's words and twist them completely to your own convenience.

 

Which of ST's words I twisted to my convenience?

 

 

This thread is a place where people can learn from Sifu Terry and share their experience, it is not a railway station.

 

So most of us have a kind of respect for this thread, for Sifu Terry and for his instructions. If you consider yourself as his student , and he says: just do it. You do it. If he says, no classical taoist map can explain FP, that's all we need to know. If he says, no transmission, that's all about it.

 

Okey, but if student asks respectfully about most basic information like how many meditations there in the system and what can "transmission" mean then it would be nice to have reply to this query not insulting a student. This would be respect from BOTH sides. If there was no answer I used to ask another person who is student of GMDW who you started to abuse too. As you say this is discussion thread where people are free to share experiences and if I ask Cihan about his personal experience I expect respectful answer appropriate to the thread but not the personal insulting instead of reply. Is not it clear?

[Bubbles]

Which of ST's words I twisted to my convenience?

In post 2381 just above (and you do that very often):

 

Sifu Terry doesn't say there is spiritual transmission in FP like you will find in Tibetan Buddhism for eg. He talks about " spiritual channel" that is to say the channel you may be connected to if/when you have consistent practice of FP. If you read carefully what you quote, Sifu Terry makes a distinction between FP spiritual channel and the channel to which GMDW martial prowess were related.

 

Instead of reading the words, you twist them in : there is mahamudra-like transmission in FP but Sifu Terry is hiding some informations, he contradicts himself, i read this and that on the internet, I was told by Mr S. that Sifu Terry was not the real deal anyway, etc...Then you come here, pretending asking sincere questions and being bullied by this nasty Bubbles, and Sifu Terry himself.

 

And I repeat Antares, you do that all the time.

 

 

Okey, but if student asks respectfully about most basic information like how many meditations there in the system and what can "transmission" mean then it would be nice to have reply to this query not insulting a student. This would be respect from BOTH sides. If there was no answer I used to ask another person who is student of GMDW who you started to abuse too. As you say this is discussion thread where people are free to share experiences and if I ask Cihan about his personal experience I expect respectful answer appropriate to the thread but not the personal insulting instead of reply. Is not it clear?

 

You already received answers to your questions. But you have chosen not to believe them because you heard from someone that there was more to it etc...So you came here again and again with the same questions, and the same unwillingness to listen to the answers given by Leif, Sifu Garry and Sifu Terry. What can we do for you then?

 

Then you come here and pretend being sincere and respectful You did not ask Cihan about his personal experience, you directly questioned and expressed doubts about it. Here are the words you wrote to Cihan:

 

But what is the heart? Have you really realized what you are saying about? It is true that mind can not understand the heart. Only teacher who realized his heart can transmitt it to you. Okey, I do not want to be too much dogmatic but lets be realistic.

 

You do only 2 meds for 3 years, right?

 

There are over 500 another meds in FP. Let's calculate how many years it will take you to cultivate all of them. Do you think this is all what you need? And did you really understand those moves?

 

In this regard, Sifu Terry's reply was just a reminder about what it means to be be respectful. The circle comes back around.

 

I will not respond to the accusation you make of me abusing this GMDW's student. There is enough recorded in TTB archives for anyone to make his own opinion about it. Your accusation reveals that your sincerity is obviously a smokescreen for less healthy aims.

 

This thread has been derailed enough.

[Antares]

Antares this post from 2011 is worth reading

http://thetaobums.com/topic/12639-flying-phoenix-chi-kung/?p=297619

(covers a lot about in which ways exactly FP doesn't fit traditional roadmap, mixing systems, and more)

 

Thanks for this. At least without insulting...

This was about roadmaps... I am sorry that I repeat myself. And mine is sorry that I am still here.

Guys, you say to be mindful and listen to you. But you do not want to listen other opinions.

I already mentioned that I know one person very well who has been practiced Tummo for 20 years according to the Tibetan Yoga book that ST referring to. This is not the philosophy book. This is correct and direct instructions of opening up subtle energy body channels which according to ST is only "mind".

 

 

And as i said in earlier post, quoting Taoist priest and grandmaster Kuan Sai Hung: "There are no meridians". There is no tan tien. IT IS ALL MIND."

 

Thus I do not undesrtstand why to refer to this book if you say there is nothing like channels. My friend said that he opened up all this channels and he could for example reverse his age 10 years back in his health and appearance. There are side channels, sushumna, MCO and many other channels. He says if you dont have this you do not do yoga at all. It is up to you who to believe to but you say this is open thread and i share what I know. I just missed your points about this book as roadmap. He said that Kundalini is really evolving and this is real akin to near death experience.

[Antares]

Sifu Terry doesn't say there is spiritual transmission in FP like you will find in Tibetan Buddhism for eg. He talks about " spiritual channel" that is to say the channel you may be connected to if/when you have consistent practice of FP. If you read carefully what you quote, Sifu Terry makes a distinction between FP spiritual channel and the channel to which GMDW martial prowess were related.

 

Instead of reading the words, you twist them in : there is mahamudra-like transmission in FP but Sifu Terry is hiding some informations, he contradicts himself, i read this and that on the internet, I was told by Mr S. that Sifu Terry was not the real deal anyway, etc...Then you come here, pretending asking sincere questions and being bullied by this nasty Bubbles, and Sifu Terry himself.

 

You are twisting my words, mate. I cited JAJ's words which you called here "dogma" and that there is direct transmission from Tao. And ST said that any of JAJ's theories and many others are not applicable to BFP system.

 

I did not say there is mahamudra like transmission in BFP. If I said that please quote it! I did not say that ST is hiding information. You gave absolutely false and wrong information of what I said! Bubble, I do not know about your practice but this is nonsense what you are saying! You twisted all my words.

[Antares]

What I said was that all spiritual traditions should have the same CORE/THE SPIRIT. And that this applicable to taoist traditions as well. I did not mean it must be the same but ST and other GMDW's students confirmed that GM has power and it helps. And I said you can call it "magnetic induction" or somehow esle.

 

Honestly, this is ENOUGH for my psyche.

 

Edited for addition . Actually Tibetan Yoga book was not advised as "road map", I mistaken but reference is given often to this book.

Edited July 20, 2013 by Antares

[alleswasderfallist]

Nan-in, a Japanese master during the Meiji era (1868-1912), received a university professor who came to inquire about Zen.

Nan-in served tea. He poured his visitor’s cup full, and then kept on pouring.

The professor watched the overflow until he no longer could restrain himself. “It is overfull. No more will go in!”

“Like this cup,” Nan-in said, “you are full of your own opinions and speculations. How can I show you Zen unless you first empty your cup?”

[Leif]

Thus I do not undesrtstand why to refer to this book if you say there is nothing like channels. My friend said that he opened up all this channels and he could for example reverse his age 10 years back in his health and appearance. There are side channels, sushumna, MCO and many other channels. He says if you dont have this you do not do yoga at all. It is up to you who to believe to but you say this is open thread and i share what I know. I just missed your points about this book as roadmap. He said that Kundalini is really evolving and this is real akin to near death experience.

 

My friend says there are many muscles all over the body and if you pump them with iron enough and often you get like 10 years younger just after few months. And once tired to the limit, he uses his mind too, to push himself to do the extra few benchpress repetitions.

There are many levels of understanding to how human body works, and there are many models of that (Cyndi Dale has book on energy system that lists number of those). Your friend is right, my friend is right (and Kuan Sai Hung I even fear to type his name LOL.)

 

If Sifu Terry says to not to refer to the traditional taoist system like MCO, and if you consider him your teacher, .... well. He says it for a reason. I have much less experience with FP than you do (hats down to your dedication and long hours you put in), this might be entirely fabrication of my untrained mind and lack of words: FP energy seems to be all -permeating, covering, don't know how to say - it's not like other meridian or organ or element or dantien or whatever based systems. Will this all-permeating energy still work on the organ and meridian and dantien, well yes, but not as directly as eg. purely meridian based system.

 

And perhaps more importantly. You are someone who is after higher goals (ie. not just health or exercise) that's clear.

This system is taught this way so that you can UNDERSTAND YOUR OWN BODY and reach those higher levels.

In other systems you do "oh now I work on my lung meridian, oh now I fill the dantien, now let's do some MCO".

Here you listen to your body and through your direct experience you learn what's actually going on (oversimplified, but what isn't when you put it into words).

 

Well I'm not at that level with FP to understand what's going on. But followed some other fairly different teaching, where the sifu has similar approach. Finally I got part of it yesterday (albeit just a relatively small thing that it was) - undisputable internal understanding what actually goes on. Only then was I thankful he didn't lay the roadmap for me. There is a big difference getting it on your own, and following roadmap thinking that's it.

 

If you were told steps by steps what goes on you become qigong robot, whereas if you find on your own you become a master of your own existence. Understanding of that cannot be fully transferred in words nor models.

 

(And just a sidenote, what would happen if Sifu would lay out exact model of what was going on, suddenly we would have hundreds of FP qigong masters all over the internet all with intellectual grasp but no experience nor ability ready to discuss and teach others.)

 

A lot of misunderstandings here come from

a] saying what others wrote in our own words, instead of actually quoting the relevant post

b] taking words too literally, without studying them in context and particularly in context of other posts (eg. there are tens of posts on combining with other systems, or on how FP differs from the more mainstream, each has somewhat different flare and meaning as usually in reply to an individual post, studying all these gives much better picture then picking words from individual posts to prove our points)

and there are just some levels of discussion where doing so over internet is a dead end (I'd have to spend hours here if I wanted to be completely correct in potential replies to some of the posts, ie. quoting exact words, including perspectives needed, connecting to other posts on topic that shed more light or fill in part of puzzle,...).

 

As for the respect, no comments that's too finegrained topic for me to take part in, only on related note I don't think it's helpful to push opinions of your friend how to do pranayama with qigong then saying he actually has no or watered down qigong or from books (not exact quote but something along that line). Or pushing informations (and OK I think the query about whether FP actually really contains 500 exercises was legitimate, I mean pushing the info that FP should be done in different way than how Sifu teaches) from the other person who trained with GMDW when we all know who it was and that sifu earlier contradicted some of what that student said.

 

You are still spiritual shopping and you over intellectualize and you know that well :-).

That's meant in good way, as again I'm sure you know that well, and I and others on this board do that too (just we are not as intensive I'd say).

 

Enlightenment was achieved by people doing the simplest of things, like meditating on sound or breath or even it just happened to some out of the blue.

 

Sifu of another, much simpler system, said same things 1) their simple system is all you need 2) there is no transmission, and guess what - there are people who don't believe what they said.

 

Spiritual evolution is not about intellectualization of the path but opposite of it, living it.

 

Many answers are found on the road as a result of practice, and often that's the only right time for them to emerge not before.

 

The thing is, does FP work for you?

 

Worst post ever. I think I'll delete it soon :-)

Edited July 20, 2013 by Leif

[Warrior Body Buddha Mind]

The Dao is one big spirit to me = spiritual channeling direct, no transmission from a teacher!

[Fu_doggy]

Bravo!

[cihan]

 

But what is the heart? Have you really realized what you are saying about? It is true that mind can not understand the heart. Only teacher who realized his heart can transmitt it to you. Okey, I do not want to be too much dogmatic but lets be realistic.

 

You do only 2 meds for 3 years, right?

 

There are over 500 another meds in FP. Let's calculate how many years it will take you to cultivate all of them. Do you think this is all what you need? And did you really understand those moves?

 

What do you think the blessing is?

Dear Ant,

I did not reply to you, because I did not know what to say.

And I did not take your words as an insult.

But I know what I am saying,

Transmission for me is not instant enlightenment. It is like suddenly seeing your long lost friend waving back to you from a small window in a distant building far away, among many buildings and windows all filled with thousands of other crazy people Then you know the way to your friend, because you saw the location.

To see your friend, you have to look.

That simple.This is the heart.

I was so lucky to locate my friend among all that chaos, but all I did was LOOKING. My way still feels far away, but I know I will eventually get there , because I saw where the fk I have to go.

Genuine friends do not tell you what you want to hear, they wave to you to show the way.

This is also the blessing.

This forum & thread has these friends, you can trust them.

Please do not give up your FPCK cultivation,

I realised that even mastering only a single exercise is a fast vessel, once you are not lost by conceptualising and doubting.

Best to you & all,

Cihan

Edited July 21, 2013 by cihan

[cihan]

Hello Cihan,

I'm so glad to hear that you persevered for more than a year and recently found the correct way to practice Bending the Bows. It is the most important of the basic moving standing FP Meditations. Because I had about 11 years of Yang Tai Chi training before I started practicing FP Qigong in 1991, I distinctly remember that after doing about 10 rounds of BTB (at La Cienega Park in the center of L.A.), I was pleasantly stunned when I started to do the Yang Short Form of Cheng Man-Ching and the Form literally did itself. Every movement was effortless and frictionless throughout the first third of the form. Then i started thinking about the blissful frictionless state too much and of course it went away. Ah, attachment is a bitch. But all this is to say Congrats! Once you establish Bending the Bows, all the other moving standing FP Meditations are easier to do and have greater self-healing effect.

Please keep us informed of your progress in Turkey and new revelations with FP.

 

Best,

Sifu Terry

 

 

Sifu Terry,

I somehow had missed your above response, and came across it just now.

Thank you very much for your comments.

I know LA and La Cienega, worked as a CPA there in 1987-88, lived in Santa Monica for a year. I was desperately seeking a spiritual way these years, there was a Zen Monastry in the East Part, but they did not welcome me telling their master was very old and dying, and there were lots of New Age crackheads around UCLA Westwood, they freaked me out I wish I met you at these years.

Anyways, somewhere in this hudge thread I remember you saying once something like BTB helping to master the use of thumb and forefingers If I remember correct. Not that I am pursuing anything like that, but I am just curious about what you can reveal more about BTB if you care.

 

Thanks & Best

Cihan

Edited July 21, 2013 by cihan

[Bubbles]

Antares,

 

Since you asked, here are your words. I am not happy to do this.

 

1. About Sifu Terry concealing the existence of transmission :

Yes, I know nothing about Dao. But I am honest. And I don't insist there must be "transmission". You can call me fool, that' ok, I am fool indeed and I am honest. I have been studying all this not first year and read and listen what other people say including great masters from other lineages who I can't call fools. This is reality. Having good experience with something is not the same as having GREAT experience. There are levels of gradation. Will you call Ya Mu fool who says that transmission can save 10+ years of practice? Or what will be experience of Terry Dunn if he would learn FP from DVD but not directly from GMDW?

You say "no stronger current " but students of GMDW say THERE IS strong current from him when they are together.

Of course we can get something good from DVDs. But to what extent? If somebody has decades in other practice then any other practice goes better. Another people can get excellent results after 10-15 years of practice instead of 6 months with "transmission". And I was talking of how it can be complete without seeing GM is person.

When I say "a student of GMDW" I mean somebody who is his student right now and that person tells me some info what is not disclosed here in the thread.

Do you know anybody in yoga or tantra who got "immortality " without transmission in spiritual lineage? They not even recommend to practice it without it. Try to practice trulkhor without transmission. Why is it not the case in Taoism?

As you can see not only you are suggesting that there must be transmission in FP, but you are also saying that Sifu Terry and Sifu Garry are not mentioning that transmission is necessary in FP.

I will not quote again your post to Cihan where you are suggesting again that and because Sifu Terry has already answered you stating clearly that there is not transmission like that in FP

 

2. About Sifu Terry being a possible liar:

As for the levels GMDW's personal student confirmed that there are 18 levels with 36 meds in each.

18 standing and 18 seated.

 

This is not the system of just 2 levels with half published. Somebody is not saying truth.

 

And I just wanted to say that for me it is too vast system. And it seems to be huge dao yin system.

[Antares]

Bubles, you are emphatically distorting my words and twist the meaning of my words how you like it.

I put more easy - you are not going to clarify things, neither you want to understand what I was asking.

Your goal is fighting here. Thus I see no point discuss anything with you.

Where you see in quoted post that I state there must be transmission?

I asked to elaborate what is transmission and if we should meet GMDW in person.

I asked if it is spiritual tradition or not. That' was the core of my query. Which you do not want to realize.

You believe what you want to believe abusing person who was asking for some clarifications. Period

Edited July 21, 2013 by Antares

[zen-bear]

The Dao is one big spirit to me = spiritual channeling direct, no transmission from a teacher!

 

 

My friend says there are many muscles all over the body and if you pump them with iron enough and often you get like 10 years younger just after few months. And once tired to the limit, he uses his mind too, to push himself to do the extra few benchpress repetitions.

There are many levels of understanding to how human body works, and there are many models of that (Cyndi Dale has book on energy system that lists number of those). Your friend is right, my friend is right (and Kuan Sai Hung I even fear to type his name LOL.)

 

If Sifu Terry says to not to refer to the traditional taoist system like MCO, and if you consider him your teacher, .... well. He says it for a reason. I have much less experience with FP than you do (hats down to your dedication and long hours you put in), this might be entirely fabrication of my untrained mind and lack of words: FP energy seems to be all -permeating, covering, don't know how to say - it's not like other meridian or organ or element or dantien or whatever based systems. Will this all-permeating energy still work on the organ and meridian and dantien, well yes, but not as directly as eg. purely meridian based system.

 

And perhaps more importantly. You are someone who is after higher goals (ie. not just health or exercise) that's clear.

This system is taught this way so that you can UNDERSTAND YOUR OWN BODY and reach those higher levels.

In other systems you do "oh now I work on my lung meridian, oh now I fill the dantien, now let's do some MCO".

Here you listen to your body and through your direct experience you learn what's actually going on (oversimplified, but what isn't when you put it into words).

 

Well I'm not at that level with FP to understand what's going on. But followed some other fairly different teaching, where the sifu has similar approach. Finally I got part of it yesterday (albeit just a relatively small thing that it was) - undisputable internal understanding what actually goes on. Only then was I thankful he didn't lay the roadmap for me. There is a big difference getting it on your own, and following roadmap thinking that's it.

 

If you were told steps by steps what goes on you become qigong robot, whereas if you find on your own you become a master of your own existence. Understanding of that cannot be fully transferred in words nor models.

 

(And just a sidenote, what would happen if Sifu would lay out exact model of what was going on, suddenly we would have hundreds of FP qigong masters all over the internet all with intellectual grasp but no experience nor ability ready to discuss and teach others.)

 

A lot of misunderstandings here come from

a] saying what others wrote in our own words, instead of actually quoting the relevant post

b] taking words too literally, without studying them in context and particularly in context of other posts (eg. there are tens of posts on combining with other systems, or on how FP differs from the more mainstream, each has somewhat different flare and meaning as usually in reply to an individual post, studying all these gives much better picture then picking words from individual posts to prove our points)

and there are just some levels of discussion where doing so over internet is a dead end (I'd have to spend hours here if I wanted to be completely correct in potential replies to some of the posts, ie. quoting exact words, including perspectives needed, connecting to other posts on topic that shed more light or fill in part of puzzle,...).

 

As for the respect, no comments that's too finegrained topic for me to take part in, only on related note I don't think it's helpful to push opinions of your friend how to do pranayama with qigong then saying he actually has no or watered down qigong or from books (not exact quote but something along that line). Or pushing informations (and OK I think the query about whether FP actually really contains 500 exercises was legitimate, I mean pushing the info that FP should be done in different way than how Sifu teaches) from the other person who trained with GMDW when we all know who it was and that sifu earlier contradicted some of what that student said.

 

You are still spiritual shopping and you over intellectualize and you know that well :-).

That's meant in good way, as again I'm sure you know that well, and I and others on this board do that too (just we are not as intensive I'd say).

 

Enlightenment was achieved by people doing the simplest of things, like meditating on sound or breath or even it just happened to some out of the blue.

 

Sifu of another, much simpler system, said same things 1) their simple system is all you need 2) there is no transmission, and guess what - there are people who don't believe what they said.

 

Spiritual evolution is not about intellectualization of the path but opposite of it, living it.

 

Many answers are found on the road as a result of practice, and often that's the only right time for them to emerge not before.

 

The thing is, does FP work for you?

 

Worst post ever. I think I'll delete it soon :-)

No, Leif. A very good post. Please don't delete.

Best,

Sifu Terry

Edited July 21, 2013 by zen-bear

[Antares]

As for my reference to another person who is friend of GMDW and who disclosed some info to me that was not clear enough for me while reading this thread and I only said that I asked that person for some clarifications. And I got clear and short replies which ST did not disclose here. For example I was said that:

 

 

First of all, I have never heard GM Doo Wai refer to FP chi gung or Bak Fu Pai gung fu as spiritual practices. He said in ancient times the people thought this stuff was spiritual because of the profound healing abilities that one acquires from learning the chi gung. When GM teaches we never talked about dan tiens, meridians etc. He said learn the meds and see what results you get. ... Our chi gung is pure and it for healing self and others. If taught and learned correctly the practitioner will gain great benefits...

GM Doo Wai did say that there is spiritual chi gung systems but not a part of the Doo family healing arts. I read a book about MO Pai and I believe it is a spiritually based system. I suggest you separate your spiritual quests from FP meds. I know you can develop psychic abilities such seeing the chi energy projecting chi healing plants animals and people. Plus reviving insects and fish. These were skills I learned early in my cultivation. Also one can learn to move objects small object. The chi energy can used to pull people to you while projecting the chi and you can also push people away from you at a distance. I call these things psychic or mental abilities

 

Nothing said that it is high level Yoga and no references to Taosim and buddism spirituality adding new theories akin to Tibetan yoga doctrine. Here I asked for clarifications about similarities of traditions but many people are not likely going to discuss it and not interested of what they learning. Thus let' stop it here right now.

Edited July 21, 2013 by Antares

[taiji_cat]

When GM teaches we never talked about dan tiens, meridians etc. He said learn the meds and see what results you get. ... Our chi gung is pure and it for healing self and others. If taught and learned correctly the practitioner will gain great benefits.

 

 

 

I guess you should have listened to him instead of almost ruining this thread

Edited July 21, 2013 by taiji_cat

[Antares]

I got this information yesterday. And yes I see no point to take part in this thread as people here is not interesred in spirituality. We have diff goals and thus you don't understand my questions

[zen-bear]

I used to discuss this issues with few other people who post in this thread and have practiced FPCK for a long time. And I see they have these questions too and mixing FPCK with other practices.

For example you advised to practice FP with kung fu for the best benefits. Also you mentioned how powerful was your experience learning from GMDW. And when I asked to elaborate it you said it is not relevant to the thread and that it is "silly freaky". This is just dishonest.

If I ask somebody about attainments of FPCK you say "who a fuck are you to ask these questions" - it sounds aggressive.

 

I wanted to find the best approach for best benefits of FPCK practice.

 

This is open discussion thread and people can have diff questions and diff karma.

Antares,

 

Here are my responses in black to each of your statements (brown):

 

I used to discuss this issues with few other people who post in this thread and have practiced FPCK for a long time. And I see they have these questions too and mixing FPCK with other practices.

I have adequately answered every question posted about mixing Flying Phoenix Chi Kung practice with other Chi Kung systems, practicing it alongside Bok Fu Pai Kung Fu and BFP umbrella arts, practicing it alongside other Kung Fu systems--that are not repetitive of an earlier posted question. If the others that you are talking to who are long-time practitioners of FPCK have the same questions, then they will find the answers to their questions in this thread—very clear answers that "Bubbles" was good enough to find identify by Posting number: #89 and #93. [Thank you, Bubbles]. And here is what I wrote more recently in post #2329 in response to your question:

 

_{“…without the Chinese equivalent counterparts to Indian asana and pranayama--i.e., the myriad of yogic postures contained in Kung Fu forms and the esoteric cultivation of breath power that comes from mastering Chinese Kung Fu Forms, attaining the high level benefits from any Qigong (with the exception of FP Qigong and probably SYG as well, as far as I know directly) is a very difficult proposition. To get the most out of high level Qigong systems such as FPCK in the shortest time, it certainly helps if one happens to be a high adept or master of Kung Fu. As I mentioned in the thread, everyone in the learning circle that I had formed around GM Doo Wai in 1990 in Los Angeles was already an instructor in some other form of kung -fu. Those who were not, "got it" a little slower than those who were.}

_{But a Kung Fu or Tai Chi foundation is not mandatory for life-long beneficial practice of FP qigong. FP Qigong is unique in that its basic standing moving meditations can still get an absolute beginner with no Chinese martial arts or yogic arts experience to a masterful level in a relatively short time because it has a comprehensive set of kung-fu postures (equivalent of asanas) built into the standing moving meditations as seen in Volumes 3 and 4. GM Doo Wai talked in general that he could train someone in his internal arts to a high level of proficiency in six years.”}

 

These are my clear and straightforward answers that you unfortunately have miscontrued, taken out of context and also grotesquely twisted for a seemingly "weird" belief system (to use Sifu Garry's word, post #2306) and apparently unhealthy agenda of disruption (per “Bubbles”) and spewing accusations in all directions of being "abused."

 

For example you advised to practice FP with kung fu for the best benefits. Also you mentioned how powerful was your experience learning from GMDW. And when I asked to elaborate it you said it is not relevant to the thread and that it is "silly freaky". This is just dishonest.

• Your first two sentences here are correct; I have posted numerous statements to that effect. However, your third sentence in bold here is a quite deranged fabrication, a vile and diabolical lie, or perhaps both: you take Sifu Hearfield's critique of your arguments as "about nothing really" and as "silly freaky" (see #2335 ), take them out of context and accuse me of being "dishonest" by putting his words in my mouth--in answer to your question/request to elaborate about Kung Fu enhancing the benefits of FP Chi Kung practice. Up until now, I have not stated that elaborating more about Kung Fu practiced concomittant with FP Qigong was irrelevant. For I have adequately answered every question posted about combining FP practice with other qigong systems, with BFP Kung Fu and with other Kung Fu systems--including your questions. It is not an irrelevant issue, but an issue that I will no longer comment upon because that’s a dead horse that you want to beat several more times because you could not understand what I wrote in plain English--or didn’t like what I wrote.

 

This is what Sifu Hearfield said of your postings as of July 16:

The transmission is the DAO!!

FP Chow Mein isnt FP The answer is simple do one, do it without wanting, do it cause it feels right, freaking silly questions for nothing seriously...lmao How many FP dvds do u have Ant? If you have more than one that has a heap of meditations you have a brick that inside is gold.

 

Not only did you attribute Sifu Hearfield’s statement to me, but you reversed the order of his words:

“Freaking silly” (are your questions) and for nothing, seriously. But if you want to admit that your questions are “silly freaky” as well as “freaking silly”, then I would agree with that characterization also.

 

If I ask somebody about attainments of FPCK you say "who a fuck are you to ask these questions" - it sounds aggressive.

• Again, you distort what I said and the context in which I said it . This is what you are referring to in my post of July 14 (#2368):

And did you really understand those moves? --YOU ARE NOT AN AUTHORITY IN ANY YOGIC SYSTEM OR SPIRITUAL TRADITION--LET ALONE FP QIGONG--TO CHALLENGE A DEDICATED THREE-YEAR PRACTITIONER OF FP QIGONG WHO I HAVE PERSONALLY TUTORED ON THIS THREAD (AND THROUGH PRIVATE MESSAGING) ABOUT HIS OR HER UNDERSTANDING. WHO ARE YOU TO ASSUME SUCH AN ATTITUDE AND ASK SUCH A QUESTION OF ANYONE??!!!

 

DISHONEST? WHO IS BEING DISHONEST HERE??!!!

 

You describe your insulting challenge to Cihan—“And did you really understand those moves?” --as you sincerely asking about his “attainments” of FPCK? Do you truly believe that any literate person believes that that was the intent of your question?

 

And then you distort my chastisement of your insult “Who are you to assume such an attitude and ask such a question of anyone???!!!” as “Who the fuck are you to ask thes questions?”—when I have never used the world "fuck" in anger during the entire 3.5+ years that I’ve been answering questions on this thread.

 

Although I prefer not to lower myself to your level of profanity to address your perverse thinking, but because you’ve given me license by putting that word in my mouth, I will now ask you:

Who the fuck are you to twist Sifu Hearfield’s words about you, “Freaking Silly”, and tell the FP community that I was the one who said them? (Not that I disagree with Sifu Hearfield one bit.) ...and then accuse me of using the word “fuck”, towards you…and in a newly contrived context that also amounts to a lie: that I said “who the fuck are you to ask these questions (plural)”. WRONG. I said, “Who are you to assume such an attitude and ask such a question of anyone?” (--that question being your ARROGANT INSULT of Cihan: “And did you really understand those moves?”—when you yourself have admitted to having practiced only 6 months but to no notable results.”

 

I wanted to find the best approach for best benefits of FPCK practice.

• You seem to disagree contentiously with everything posted by me, Sifu Hearfield, and the more experienced students of FP Qigong on this thread. If you believe you know better about FP Qigong practice from "your friend who learns from GM Doo Wai," why don’t you and he start a discussion thread of his own about FPCK practice?

 

This is open discussion thread and people can have diff questions and diff karma.

• Apart from the obvious in your statement, perhaps FP Chi Kung is not the right system for you since you have stated that you have gained no notable benefits after 6 months of practice. Perhaps that is your different karma.

 

One priceless benefit of the FP Heavenly Healing Chi Meditations practice is that it increases discernment. Thus my Wierd-Shit-O-Meter is now calibrated finer than ever and it's fully powered by patience, general semantics, and a new form of brain activation (from inadvertantly and most pleasantly connecting to Tao Stillness's medical clairvoyant Eric Isen's high meditative states as a deeksha of Sri Bhagavan's Oneness Meditation--by merely reading or typing certain words on this thread related to Oneness Meditation). Bottom line is that every lie that you or anyone else decides to post on here in the future, Antares, will be dissected and exposed. And the result will be that subscribers following this thread--now reaching past 260,000--will all eventually come to now the workings of your mind and, yes, the INTENTION of your heart—not to mention the utter fallacy and ridiculousness of some of the information that you've posted, such as 500 Flying Phoenix meditations.

 

With interruptions at a rate of about once a year, this thread has been a clean channel for information exchange about a heavenly yogic art that cultivates not just good health, but sanctity--and this thread is not, as someone said, a railroad station. Your weirdly spun lies and pointless distortions have been an obnoxious pollution and derailment of this forum thus far. Yes, it is an open forum, and all are free to post their questions, ideas and experiences concerning Flying Phoenix Qigong--so long as their intent is constructive sharing. But every lie and destructive comment spewed on it is pool of urine that everyone is forced to smell and something that Sifu Hearfield, I and others feel compelled to hose out, which is an absolute waste of our time and mental and psychic energy--that could otherwise be spent much more constructively.

 

Sifu Terence Dunn

 

_{www.taichimania.com/chikung_catalog.html}

Edited July 27, 2013 by zen-bear