zen-bear Posted April 26, 2014 (edited) This morning I was short on time so I decided to do a few rounds of Bending the Bows because that was one of the basic standing FP Meditations that I had not done much of in recent months. Once I started, my body liked it so much that it just kept on going...I did a set of 18 repetitions at varying speeds, taking a total of about 25 minutes to complete. At about repetition no. 10, I felt the same total-body energy immersion and also the relatively intense activation of certain brain centers that I always feel when I practice any single FP exercise or combination of FP meditations for about 15 minutes. As I and other FP practitioners have posted in the first 2 years of the thread, these basic FP Standing meditations (and the seated Monk Serves Wine meditations) are not "basic" at all once you've established the complete system in your life. Carry on, you wayward monks! Sifu Terry Dunn P.S. I call you experienced FP practitioners out there "monks" of some unspecified variety and thus far unnamed modern sect because once you've felt the distinctive FP Healing Energy from these Qigong meditations, you are duly initiated--as you have directly experienced a high level of integration of mind and body, the tangible cultivation of the FP Healing Energy, the sublime healing and rejuvenating effects of that energy, and the beginnings of (what is called in western alchemy) the "firing" or the process of purification-of-the-spirit, described in Sanskrit as jhanic states (or deep levels of absorption)--what Prof. Fred Underwood called "the physical component of bliss" and the beginning stages of "touching Nirvana with the body." Thereby (and obviously), a PATH to spiritual development is open to you. Once you have experienced the Mindful-Bodyful, Blissful, All-In-One-Healing states imparted by the FP Qigong and realize that those healthful and profound states are repeatable, refinable, and augmentable by regular practice, you can either expand those states with continuing practice and study, and grow into doing service Work to help humanity by channeling the FP Healing Energy into healing and teaching activities in your life, or you can abandon the practice, ignore those higher states of consciousness, or even defile them within your body. How you walk the PATH (as in Castaneda's "Path with Heart") or whether you walk it at all is totally up to you, your predilection (if one has one), one's karma, and sometimes the hand of Destiny. Of course, a warrior's path with heart is defined as that path on which every step you take makes you stronger. And if one has a warrior's spirit (not necessarily having martial skill or aptitude--for the weapons of war are not carnal), there really is no choice. Edited August 13, 2014 by zen-bear 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zen-bear Posted April 26, 2014 (edited) In his book "Mindfullness, Bliss and Beyond", Ajahn Brahm describe "Nimittas", showing up after a certain stage in mindfullness meditation, which are basically mental images appearing before the "Jhanas" which are stages of deep deep meditation. FPCK meditations activate mental images which may or not be like Nimittas, Me staying in the "perceiver" mode in FPCK, they arise at most 15 minutes within the practice. After I end the meds with the breathing, the physical sensation of radiating do stop, but these images linger on, and each practice tends to have a different image, color tone and feeling. Nowadays, I experiment in being still right after the practice by staying with these images and feelings as long as I feel safe, and they are really blissful and powerful. One of the challenges is withdrawing of my all senses and surrender as these images again start the physical enamations, which I afraid will burn something if I let go completely in my unpure state, otherwise I would stay in this mode forever I did not experience a true Nimitta as I am not doing "Mindfullness Med" by the book to compare. Anybody have any comment/experience on this? If they are "Nimittas" , you reach them in a very short period in comparison to classic meditations, so this is another awesome property of the FPCK series for the spiritually inclined. My sincere gratitudes to Sifu Terry and all other Sifus (Also to this Forum and Fu Doggy for starting this thread and fellow threaders) Best to all. Hello Cihan, Thanks for your nice post about mental visions occurring before jhanic states (deeper absorption). That is a regular and most pleasant feature of the FP Chi Kung Meditations. And they are unusual because they can happen very soon after one starts practicing the FP system, as you have experienced. My sense is that different FP Meditations will bring on the "Nimittas" for different people. But because, as I have said all along, the effects of each and every FP Chi Kung exercise are cumulative, with persevering practice, one will inevitably reach a point of advanced practice where the practice of any one of the "basic level" of the FP Meditations (those taught in my DVD series) will induce the Nimittas and impart very pleasant, brain-activated, altered states of consciousness I recall that in Year One of the thread, within the first few months after Fu-doggy started it, a subscriber who had just started practicing the FP with the DVDs commented something to the extent of: "Enjoying the FP practice...everything that a great Qigong should be." And I believe he also related how he experienced mental images of Buddhist iconography, which was interesting to him and perplexed him, because he had no interest whatsoever in Buddhism (that he was aware of)! I also explained how while training under GM Doo Wai in the early 1990's, we students not only communicated psychically by sending mental images to one another (at a distance of about 12 miles) but the GM taught us how to do this by having us conduct a controlled experiment that led to each person verifying their remote "reception" of a classmate's mental projection. And I posted in detail that in the same evening following this exercise, while sleeping, I experienced dreams in a way that I had never experienced before--and discovered the next morning that I had exchanged or switched "dream modalities" with my classmate Jeff Roth. (see the Year One post) All these psychical events are in the same "ballpark" or "genre" as the nimittas that you described--only with practice we developed some volitional control over them. High level masters like GM Doo Wai and and the late Share K. Lew had extensive control over their psychic projections. For they could project mental images, thoughts, auditory experiences, and moving mental images (live action scenarios just like a film or video clip) to a person and "plant them" in their mind or nervous system--most easily through the dream state, but also during a persons' waking state. I became acquainted with a variety of each master's very real hocus pocus during my apprenticeships under them. At any rate, enjoy the nimittas! Sifu Terry Dunn Edited April 26, 2014 by zen-bear 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cihan Posted April 26, 2014 Dear Sifu Terry, Thank you very much for the clarification and your time.It's good to know that I have not sidetracked . Best, Cihan Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Captain Mar-Vell Posted April 26, 2014 (edited) ... I would just like to give my most heart felt and sincere best wishes to Sifu Zen Bear in all his endeavours. He is a very great man. Kung Fu Panda was one a da bezt toonz I evah saw! xxx. ps I told my wife I was DA Dragon Warrior! ... Edited April 28, 2014 by Captain Mar-Vell 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fudomyostl Posted April 27, 2014 Today's practice was minimal because I am getting over an issue in my ankles and it is somewhat hard to hold the positions:FP Bending the bow, 6 repsFP volume 3: Wind throught the treetops 1 time, eyes closed from memory. Moonbeam splashes on the water, 1 time with eyes open. (Still working on the memorization of the form)Feels good. 5-10 minutes after practice, buzzing feeling (energy???) rolling across my shoulders and primarily at the c7 vertebrae of the neck. 30 minutes later, still feel it there.As a side note, for those having practiced FP for a while, are there any "backlashes" of sorts that come up when you start? Old injuries re-occuring or things of the like? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zen-bear Posted April 28, 2014 (edited) Hello guys, I just learned today Moonbeam splashes on water, and what a powerful meditation it seems to be, seriously I feel like that doing a round of this meditation daily could replace all the other meditations from DVD1 and 2 in the amount of energy generated, of course I know they are all complementary working differently on different parts of our body, but for the energy, definitely if I had to pick one from the DVD1 to 3 it would be this one. It's a bit complicated to learn it, but it's clearly worth it, I can't wait for tomorrow to do it again, and learn Wind through tree tops too Aurélien Hello Aurelian, I'm very glad to hear that you've recently experienced the effects of "Moonbeam Splashes on Water" to be highly energizing and powerful enough to supplant the practice of all previous FP Meditations in Volumes 1 and 2. From noting your past postings on the thread, the videos of your practice you posted, and the questions that posted and when you posted them, it is easy for me to explain that you are feeling dramatic effects from your practice of "Moonbeam" because you have diligently, thoroughly and correctly practiced everything in Vols. 1 and 2 leading up to "Moonbeam"--and performed those with movements at very good slow speeds. (I have one student in L.A. who's been with me for 6+ years now, who is so slow and smooth in his FP practice, that he did the FP system as a beginner better than I did when I was a beginner in '91.) Thus you have a full and fluid (I won't say "solid" because that connotes "stiff") foundation of energy and sound posture and body mechanics to feel the additional effects of "Moonbeam". Every FP Practitioner who works through Volumes 1 to 4 experiences and verifies the fact that the Long Form Standing Meditation of Vol.4 (referred to "Flying Phoenix Heavenly Healing Chi Meditation" by GM Doo Wai) can subsume the practice of all the FP Qigong meditations in Volumes 1 through 3. Practice of the Vol.4 Standing Meditation ensures good health and strong immunity, and lays the ground for further yogic and spiritual development. But you are the first person on this thread spanning 4.5 years to recognize that "Moonbeam" can also supplant the practice of the Volume One basic standing meditations! So congrats on your good practice! **However, note this distinction: "Moonbeam" can subsume the practice of all the Volume One basic standing FP Meditations. But it cannot supplant or replace the Volume 2 seated "Monk Serves Wine" Meditations. Those basic MSW Meditations refine very specific energy pathways in the upper body and activate brain centers in a more refined process than basic Standing Meds on Vols 1 and 3. Their yogic effects cannot be replaced by "Moonbeam". You are feeling as if they can be subsumed by "Moonbeam" because the the total energy increase generated in your body by "Moonbeam" is so dramatic compared to the more subtle energy cultivation and deeper states of absorption mediated by the MSW Meditations. If you give the 3 MSW meditations on Vol.2 a rest for about 2 months, as you continue to practice "Moonbeam" and the other FP standing Meditations, and then start practicing the Vol.2 MSW meditations again, you will verify what I am saying here. Thanks very much for administering the weekly Friday 12 noon or 1pm PST Flying Phoenix worldwide practice! Best, Sifu Terry www.taichimania.com/chikung_catalog.html Edited April 28, 2014 by zen-bear Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vivekji108 Posted April 28, 2014 This might have been asked before but is it save to learn all 7 dvd's by your self or is at some point guidance from teacher needed? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zen-bear Posted April 28, 2014 (edited) Today's practice was minimal because I am getting over an issue in my ankles and it is somewhat hard to hold the positions: FP Bending the bow, 6 reps FP volume 3: Wind throught the treetops 1 time, eyes closed from memory. Moonbeam splashes on the water, 1 time with eyes open. (Still working on the memorization of the form) Feels good. 5-10 minutes after practice, buzzing feeling (energy???) rolling across my shoulders and primarily at the c7 vertebrae of the neck. 30 minutes later, still feel it there. As a side note, for those having practiced FP for a while, are there any "backlashes" of sorts that come up when you start? Old injuries re-occuring or things of the like? Hello Fudomyosti, Good work in working up to the point where you are now memorizing Wind Above the Clouds and Wind Through the Treetops. Both are important pillars of the FP Qigong system. Note that the beginning FP Meditations involve a few stationary exercises and that the more advanced FP Meditations (seen in Vols. 3, 4, 5) are all moving meditations. So delving into the moving meditations is sort of a minor benchmark. The buzzing around your C7 that you experience lasting for 30 minutes after your practice is a good sign of healing. As stated throughout the thread to beginners, the FP Qigong system adds absolutely no stress or "negative energy" to the human process--unless one is (1) doing the FP Meditations in a very incorrect manner physically (getting the breathing sequences wrong, doing the movements or postures grossly wrong, and/or mis-matching the breath-control sequences with the various sets of movements) or is (2) doing the FP Qigong with an unhealthy and destructive attitude, mindset, or intent--where one is mentally deranged, in other words. Assuming that none of the above apply to you, I wouldn't be alarmed at the energetic "buzzing" sensation as long as long as it isn't painful. Suggestions: take note of how you feel after the cessation of the prolonged buzzing. Note whether the buzzing occurs each time you practice FP and whether the "buzzing" dampens and decreases in duration and amplitude. (It should also be easy to focus more awareness on this sensation when you practice and afterwards. ) As a side note, for those having practiced FP for a while, are there any "backlashes" of sorts that come up when you start? Old injuries re-occuring or things of the like? My answer: The Flying Phoenix Qigong system activates the body's self-healing process by putting all the organ systems of the body under the regulation of the subconscious mind. This healing process is so gentle and sublime, that no painful "backlash" or dramatic release of deep, time-bound pain typically occurs. (I'm talking about the type of pain that one might experience from getting "deep-tissue" massage work such as Rolfing from some good like Ida Rolf (The originals are always the greatest and most reliable), or other "screaming cures" that have their place in the spectrum of legitimate healing methods.) • Old injuries should will not be exacerbated by practicing FP Qigong unless you have major joint injuries (ankles, knees, hips) that haven't fully healed, making the basic standing FP Exercises of Vols 1-3 very difficult, stressful and painful. In which case, don't do them and consult your physician. Keep us posted on your progress. Best, Sifu Terry Dunn www.taichimania.com/chikung_catalog.html Edited April 28, 2014 by zen-bear Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zen-bear Posted April 28, 2014 Master Dunn, I was reading this thread and came across something you said about the sun and bak fu pai kung fu? Does the FP work with or affected by the sunlight and or sun positions? Also I remember being told by my previous kung fu teacher that the color blue wards off negative entities does the energy of FP do the same or something similar? Thamosh, No, the Flying Phoenix Qigong is not dependent on nor sensitive to the positions of the sun (to the extent that I was taught the system by GM Doo Wai). Although the one basic standing meditation in the Volume One DVD, "Monk Gazing At the Moon" naturally suggests that its practice can be done in view of the moon. Sifu Garry Hearfield has inherited several internal systems from our teach GM Doo Wai that are practiced in sync with the positions of the sun and the moon--when one has reached their advanced levels. The blue FP Healing Energy that is visible at some point in one's practice and which also shows up on digital or analog video and film when an advanced practitioner is practicing, has demonstrably profound healing and rejuvenating effects. To generate this healing energy, the practitioner has to have positive, constructive, healing intent rooted in compassion and love of life and humanity. It is that inner predilection that wards off "negative entities"--not necessarily the color of energy. The best way to answer this question is to find out for yourself by practicing the FP Qigong diligently for just a few months! Best, Sifu Terry Dunn www.taichimania.com/chikung_catalog.html Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zen-bear Posted April 28, 2014 (edited) This might have been asked before but is it save to learn all 7 dvd's by your self or is at some point guidance from teacher needed? Hello vivejki108, It is very safe to learn and practice the FP Qigong system as taught on the 6 volumes of the Chi Kung For Health dvd series. If it were not safe, I would never have published the dvd's in 2003 or the videos on VHS back in 1994! So far, no ill-effects, injuries or anything of the sort reported--not just on this thread of 4.5 years, but throughout my 23 years of teaching FP Qigong in Los Angeles and in workshops at various times across the country. Also, if you read my postings in the first couple of years of this thread, you will find my discussion of how very safe, self-contained, and almost fool-proof the FP Qigong system is. Bottom-line: it really takes special talent to screw-up these exercises to cause oneself harm! Of course, guidance (form correction, primarily) from an instructor like myself will accelerate one's progress and development in this art. And towards that end, I have been giving private online tutorials on FP Qigong via Skype and FaceTime for about a year now, with very good results, as per the on lie students' postings. (Please ontact me through PM if you are interested in online lessons.) Thanks for your question and providing the opportunity to reiterate this safety quality about the Flying Phoenix Heavenly Healing Chi Meditation (Fei Feng Sunn Gung) system. Regards, Sifu Terry Dunn www.taichimania.com/chikung_catalog.html Edited April 28, 2014 by zen-bear Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fudomyostl Posted April 29, 2014 Thank you Mr. Dunn for the information you post!In regards to a post you made a couple pages back about the effects of volume 3 and no one having made mention of it yet, I'd like to guess. Or at least, say what I felt today. I'm percieving the volume 3 exercises to work with the heart energy. My validation for that was today when practicing "Moon Beam...." towards the end when the hands are coming parallel across the body and the left goes to the forehead and the right continues out to the side, When my hands and arms came in the proximity of my heart chakra, my hands and arms continued moving into the routine by the percieved energy at that area. "I" was not moving my arms and hands, but they were moving and felt moved upon I could be wrong though, and would like to hear others comments. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vivekji108 Posted April 30, 2014 Thanks for the info, zen bear. That sounds really good! I have one more question about the breathing, can someone explain what is meant with breathing excsrsises like 60 50 40 30 20 10? Is there retention? I'm really wondering what are the breathing excsrsises like? Thanks 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tao stillness Posted May 1, 2014 (edited) Exact instruction is given for each breathing sequence on every Flying Phoenix dvd. Sifu Terry leads you through the breathing and it is very easy to do. You do it along with him. These videos are professionally done. I have viewed many chi kung instructional videos but none rival the quality and detail of instruction as Flying Phoenix series. You will know exactly how to do the method when you watch them and you will catch on soon. Watch-Do-Enjoy! Edited May 1, 2014 by tao stillness 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fudomyostl Posted May 1, 2014 ^^ I agree, very easy to follow along with^^ Some of the forms take a little practice in getting used to the movements, but very easy to follow along with him on the dvd. Results start from day 1! 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Raynevin Posted May 3, 2014 Don't sleep on those basic seated exercises. I have been busy and low sleep-high inflammation-chronic headache for the past few weeks and so I started doing the full 3 basic seated and 3 basic monk serves wine exercises, only about 40 minutes total, once yesterday and once today, and I notice significantly less adrenal fatigue and better mood and no headache after the 2nd session. Have no idea how it works but standard breathing and yoga doesn't work that fast on a stressed nervous and endocrine system. 5 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fudomyostl Posted May 13, 2014 "Monk serves wine, but Monk recieves much more in return"I just had the though while performing volume 2. Seems like you get much in return. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jdr19 Posted May 14, 2014 (edited) Hello all, good to be a part of this community. Just too interested in this form to not start practicing right away. I need some help first:1. What's the difference between Terry Dunn's and Garry Hearfield's FP products? Both were trained by GM Doo Wai. 2. What's the difference between Sifu Hearfield's Bak Fu Sunn Yee Gung - complete level 1 and BFSYG 1?3. How many levels of FP there are, and how many are taught via DVDs?4. There is a vid of GM Doo Wai, saying some things about Mr. James Lacy. Are those true about his products? Edited May 15, 2014 by jdr19 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Raynevin Posted May 15, 2014 Hello all, good to be a part of this community. Just too interested in this form to not start practicing right away. I need some help first: 1. What's the difference between Terry Dunn's and Garry Hearfield's FP products? Both were trained by GM Doo Wai. 2. What's the difference between Sifu Hearfield's Bak Fu Sunn Yee Gung - complete level 1 and BFSYG 1? 3. How many levels of FP there are, and how many are taught via DVDs? 4. There is a vid of GM Doo Wai, saying some things about Mr. James Lacy. Are those true? A friend bought from him FP lvl 2, and is planning to buy lvl 3. What do you think about him and his products? 1. They both just teach what GMDW taught them so the systems are compatible and have similar principles and exercises, but different. User feedback says they both seem to cultivate the same type of bluish sublime energy. 2. The level 1 SYG is a set of of about 6 static seated meditations with different mudras and breath percentages; the complete level 1 SYG has one of the seated exercises + a short-form moving exercise and a long-form moving exercise. 3. TD's site has 6 released DVD volumes; from what they say this is just scratching the surface of the deeper Doo Wai system and they hope some serious students will master the DVD material and then seek out personal instruction for the advanced stuff, but the FP DVD material is fairly deep and complete as compared to any DVD practice healing system out there. 4. Dunno . 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zen-bear Posted May 16, 2014 This might have been asked before but is it save to learn all 7 dvd's by your self or is at some point guidance from teacher needed? Hi vivekji108, I'm not sure if I answered this already...but I don't think so. It is perfectly safe to practice the Flying Phoenix Qigong by using the 6 DVD's in the series. The more experienced and advanced on is in Chinese internal energy arts, the better. At some point, face-to-face instruction is needed--but not for the sake of safety...but rather for advancement in higher levels of cultivation. If one simply follows the instruction provided on the dvd series, one will derive full benefit of the DP Qigong system and no ill or untoward effects. I wrote early on in this thread that FP Qigong is relatively "foolproof"--i.e., one really as to try hard to mess up these meditations and to do oneself harm. Best, Sifu Terry Dunn 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
oreothecookie Posted May 16, 2014 Hi guys, Don't forget that there is a group session today, you can join here http://thetaobums.com/topic/33820-flying-phoenix-worldwide-events/page-4 Best, Aurélien 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tao stillness Posted May 16, 2014 To JDR19, Very good questions. I have done some of the FP dvds and I have done level one and two of SYG. The meditations on SYG take less time to do and there are less of them to do than for the FP series, and the SYG require less movements to learn for each meditation. The subtle energy also feels a bit different between the 2 systems. Both are fulfilling and compelling to do. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zen-bear Posted May 17, 2014 To JDR19, Very good questions. I have done some of the FP dvds and I have done level one and two of SYG. The meditations on SYG take less time to do and there are less of them to do than for the FP series, and the SYG require less movements to learn for each meditation. The subtle energy also feels a bit different between the 2 systems. Both are fulfilling and compelling to do. Hi Steve, Thank you for sharing your comparative thoughts on FP Qigong and SYG. Excellent that you have both as a frame of reference and comment intelligently regarding both! --something that I cannot do, as I have not practiced my Sihing's SYG art. Best, Sifu Terry Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zen-bear Posted May 17, 2014 One of the most enjoyable videos I've found on the internet this year: http://www.upworthy.com/some-strange-things-are-happening-to-astronauts-returning-to-earth?c=reccon1 --which offers a clear descriptions by former astronauts of one of the highest meditative states of consciousness--that is also easily facilitated by practice of Flying Phoenix Heavenly Healing Chi Meditations, Sunn Yee Gung, and also Sri Bhagavan's Oneness Meditation practice! Savikalpa Samadhi – The lead science officer of Apollo 14 upon returning to earth sought help to find the terms or frame of reference to describe what he had experienced during the mission to the moon. ."My job as lunar module pilot was to be responsible for the lunar module itself and for the science on the moon. So when we started home I had a little more time look out the window than the other guys because most of my responsibilities were completed. We were in a particular mode called “the barbecue mode”, so we’re flying like this but rotating like this...and what that caused to happen was that every two minutes, a picture of the earth, the moon, the sun, and a 360 degree panorama of the heavens appeared in the spacecraft window. And I had studied astronomy and I had studied cosmology, and fully understood that the molecules in my body and the molecules in my partners’ bodies in the spacecraft had been prototyped in some ancient generation of stars. In other words, it was pretty obvious from those descriptions that we’re stardust. Well, that was pretty awesome and powerful. Particularly. since I had a little more time at this point to be reflective and to think about it.After I came back and tried to understand what this experience was all about, I could find nothing in the science literature about it and nothing in the religious literature that I looked at. So I turned to the local university and asked them to help me with what I saw. When they came back to me a few weeks later, they said, ‘Well, in the accent literature we found a description called ‘savikalpa samadhi.’ That means that you see things as you see them with your eyes, but you experience them emotionally and viscerally as it was ecstasy and sense of total unity and oneness.” And I said, well that’s exactly what the experience was. And so it was rather clear to me as I studied this was nothing new but something that was very important to the way we humans were put together.”— Edgar Dean Mitchell, Sc.D., Astronaut and Lunar Module pilot of Apollo 14, who was responsible for the science experiments on the moon during his 9 hour exploration of the Fra Mauro Highlands region, making him the sixth person to walk on the moon. 5 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ridingtheox Posted May 18, 2014 in the mid 60's I worked at Motorola as a chemist/metallurgist we built communications to be used in Apollo missions. I discovered that one of the electronic chassis was plated with cadmium (post plating treated with iridite) . The specs called for gold and cadmium is a highly poisonous metal. It had the potential if inside the module of outgassing Cd. Not good, even if very low probability. The Chassis was replaced. One small contribution. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zen-bear Posted May 21, 2014 (edited) Thank you Mr. Dunn for the information you post! In regards to a post you made a couple pages back about the effects of volume 3 and no one having made mention of it yet, I'd like to guess. Or at least, say what I felt today. I'm percieving the volume 3 exercises to work with the heart energy. My validation for that was today when practicing "Moon Beam...." towards the end when the hands are coming parallel across the body and the left goes to the forehead and the right continues out to the side, When my hands and arms came in the proximity of my heart chakra, my hands and arms continued moving into the routine by the percieved energy at that area. "I" was not moving my arms and hands, but they were moving and felt moved upon I could be wrong though, and would like to hear others comments. Hi Fudomyosti, Nice discovery of that particular natural movement in "Moonbeam"! If you have good form (through practicing any particular internal exercise or FP Meditation long enough), you will find many instances in the Flying Phoenix (moving) Meditations where your movemens see effortless-- as if your arms are doing the correct movements by themselves without the slightest volition and absolutely no effort. This follows the adage used in Tai Chi and pretty much all internal arts: "The mind moves the chi, and the chi moves the body." Also, one of my favorite teachers teaches "activating the thumb and first two fingers with the metaphysical heart space." This latter oral teaching will help you perfect your natural, effortless movements of the upper body. Good progress! Sifu Terry Dunn www.taichimania.com/chikung_catalog.html Edited May 23, 2014 by zen-bear 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites