Flying Phoenix Chi Kung

[Spirit Ape]

Im sure you know the answers, I believe you joined Tao bums to try and debunk any of BFP or GMDW, pretty sad actually!

 

If you been training kung fu or qi kung you know its within Im not going into detail or sharing what I know and have to let you try and break it down. Go and study some more and find the answer WITHIN!

 

Spirit Ape

[zen-bear]

Hi Sifu Terry, when practicing today I felt an intense pulsing in my third eye area and this is the 3rd time this has happend while practicing volume 2. I have a chronic kidney disease and was wondering if any of the exercises you mentioned above specifically help the kidneys. I plan to practice in order but will spend more time on an exercise if it addresses the kidneys. I also was wondering if the book is coming out any time soon-billb.

 

 

Hello Bill, During which meditation in volume 2 did you start feeling intense pulsing in the 3rd eye area? I've not encountered reactions such as that since I've been teaching the system since 1995. How's your nervous energy and nervous system these days? Third eye is triple warmer in TLC and qigong therapy.

 

Regarding your question about exercise to help the kidneys. All the FP exercises are holistic and work to bring all the organ functions under the regulation of the subconscious mind--that is the key workings of FP Qigong and how it imparts health benefits. That said, all organ systems will be strengthened and healed in a balanced, steady manner...but the standing moving meditations in Vol. 3 and Vol. 4 will provide more healing effect on the kidneys. But you have to do these moving meditations very, very slowly and relaxedly as per the DVD instruction. (I believe that GM Doo Wai would agree with this assessment.) But do continue to do the stationery standing in Vol. 1and the seated med's of Vol. 2.

 

Also, I would advise that you consult with your doctor/renal expert and actually show him or her what actual FP exercises you are doing a lot. It doesn't hurt to get a second opinion from someone working with the western scientific/medical model of health.

 

Best, Terry Dunn

[zen-bear]

Hi Sifu Terry, when practicing today I felt an intense pulsing in my third eye area and this is the 3rd time this has happend while practicing volume 2. I have a chronic kidney disease and was wondering if any of the exercises you mentioned above specifically help the kidneys. I plan to practice in order but will spend more time on an exercise if it addresses the kidneys. I also was wondering if the book is coming out any time soon-billb.

 

 

Hi Billb, I just answered you questions in response to your later posting. then I backed up the thread and read how much I've missed over the past week+ as I've been so busy with work i haven't been online at all. Anyway, the exercise of Vol. 3 "Wind Through Treetops" and "Moonbeam..." and the Long Form Standing Med of Volume 4 will benefit the kidney orb in balance with all other bodily orbs. write me again if you have further questions.

Best, Terry Dunn

[zen-bear]

Hi themjay:

 

Sorry for the inconvenience, my website just went offline last night due to a problem with the ISP. It should be back up by Monday morning, P.S.T (Los Angeles).

 

In the meantime, if you have any questions regarding the Flying Phoenix Qigong or my Tai Chi for Health dvd's feel free to ask here or thru my personal website, [email protected].

 

Also if you are really in a hurry to order DVD's and don't want to wait til Monday, just give me your order here or through a Private Message, and I can quote you the cost plus shipping and then send you a Paypal money request.

 

Thank you for your interest. And again, sorry for the temporary inconvenience re my website being down.

 

 

hello themjay:

 

further follow-up on www.taichimania.com website.

 

It is finally debugged, up and running. We had it offline for almost a week after I changed hosts. but all is working now.

 

Thanks for your interest,

 

Terry Dunn

 

Regards,

 

Terry Dunn

[zen-bear]

Hi Sifu Terry,

 

Thanks for the post, lots of those positions are within my Burning Palm but of course different breath percentages that will trigger as well cultivate a different energy and purpose. I will have to look at the old stuff of Sifu. Like I said on the email there is a few levels of Fei Fung Sunn Gung (golden phoenix, red lotus has its own levels.

 

Busy now, will write again soon!

 

Garry

 

 

Hi Sifu Garry,

 

No problem, take your time. I know that comparing breathing sequences is detail work that takes time and concentration. And contact me through PM as you find appropriate.

I just wanted to lay out what I've already published (2003).

 

Best,

 

Terry Dunn

[zen-bear]

Hi Sifu Garry,

 

No problem, take your time. I know that comparing breathing sequences is detail work that takes time and concentration. And contact me through PM as you find appropriate.

I just wanted to lay out what I've already published (2003).

 

Best,

 

Terry Dunn

 

 

P.S. BTW, Garry -- and all you taobums contributing to this thread and others lurking out there beyond our fringes:

This documentary, narrated by James Shigeta will be airing later today on PBS, March 17, I'm told:

 

A nicely produced introduction for the West. But the documentary is based on a very broad, general definition of "qigong"--one that equates it with "yogic art"; the history it gives about the evolution of qigong as the predecessor of martial arts such as Tai Chi is not correct. Qigong is a vast codex of esoteric yogas that empowers Chinese martial, yogic, healing and spiritual arts, but it is not one generic form that encompasses all these disciplines. The sad fact is that starting in the early 70's, the PRC started printing and disseminating tens of millions of pamphlets teaching very basic qigong exercises from broken traditions--with the primary purpose of pacifying its masses, and western hucksters started translating and publishing these pedestrian forms of qigong in books and videos. Real Qigong is taught at the very end of one's training in Chinese martial and healing arts--not at the beginning. What Qigong is taught at the beginning is the "open secret" of the Universe that no one (except for the exceptionally gifted--i.e., a spiritual prodigy) can make use of to any good effect. For one cannot cultivate a super-abundance of internal energy (qi) until one has developed a strong infrastructure (cleaned one's "pipes") through years of martial, yogic or spiritual training. I greatly fear that the popularizing of Qigong--especially if its funded by corporate interests the India yoga has popularized-- will dilute its true meaning, and cause an over-commercialization in the West of the same weak, downstream bunkum created by post-cultural revolution bureaucrats China. My honest opinion is that Qigong should remain esoteric and not be subjected to the same trend of McDonalds-ization that has commercialized Indian yoga over the past 25 years n the West. To much public exposure of a traditionally sacred art that imbues one with supernormal powers and/or opens the gateway to developing supernatural power is prone to make it the object of ambition of the profane.

[DiscipleOfScience]

Im sure you know the answers, I believe you joined Tao bums to try and debunk any of BFP or GMDW, pretty sad actually!

 

That's not what I've come to do or I would have said things to that effect and it wouldn't be sad if I had if my intentions were to merely dispel falsehoods. I am just looking for answers and don't want to waste my effort. Perhaps you do not value your time as much as I do mine? I first started training in bak fu pai 7 years ago and have since traveled all over the country and trained under different masters and have read scores of books and I now have the opportunity to continue in the bak fu pai system, but some of the more advanced stuff seems rather wishy-washy in the extreme. I mean, healing energy? What does that mean? Can it be measured? Is it real? A tingling feelings in the hands is not enough to warrant a lifetime of practice. I'm a serious practitioner with serious, practical goals and then I found this thread and thought it would be a good place to ask around and see what people think and if anyone had any examples of demonstrations. I've seen many tapes of people doing bak fu pai forms and the only person I've seen doing them well is Doo Wai. He's how old now? And he moves like a blur -- that's just amazing. Can anyone else do that? Can any of his students? Can they even spar using the forms?

 

 

If you been training kung fu or qi kung you know its within Im not going into detail or sharing what I know and have to let you try and break it down. Go and study some more and find the answer WITHIN!

 

Yes, there are elements of kung fo and qi kung that are "within" but the whole point of kung fu, chi kung or any spiritual practice is to make use of it in the world around you. If all you have is inside your own little world, what use is it?? Surely there must be some fruits of your labor? I have no problem going into detail about what I know, because it stands up to scrutiny -- it works, and that's how anyone should feel about the system they practice. There should not be flimsy understanding or a secret fear that none of it is real. It should be demonstrably real! I look forward, when I have time of course, to debating. It strengthens what I already know and helps me get rid of the stuff that might not be true.

 

 

If a pai is legitimate and your practice is genuine than it will not be difficult to demonstrate -- perhaps some form work, sparring and with bak fu pai it's even easier because you should be able to materialize chi, glow in the dark, move things at a distance, heal people, etc. under controlled conditions. Is it strange to ask why it is notoriously difficult to find single exponent of his system or any system performing super natural feats in controlled, repeatable experiments? I don't think it's the least bit strange. The only strange thing is that so few people bother asking. There are some very legitimate aspects to the system, specifically the palm training and dit da jow, but there's just a lot of "woo woo" around a lot of the other stuff.

[Baguakid]

There are a lot of reasons people practice Qigong.

 

For me it's health and longevity. So the results would be perfect health throughout your entire life. My purpose for studying Qigong:

 

1. Increase the level of Qi in my body. That is, make it very strong. Reason, when the level of Qi in the body starts to go down then "dirty" aspects will start to accumulate. Food eaten will stay in the body longer than it should and disease will more easily become a problem.

 

2. Strengthen kidneys. Kidneys being the root of all yin/yang in the body (TCM) I want my kidneys strong.

 

3. Don't want illness. Again, to be disease free throughout my entire life.

 

Once the qi level in the body rises transformation will take place. More, better bowel movements, more energy, better appetite, etc.

 

Special abilities. Everyone has at least one special ability or gift but it's not realized until the level of Qi rises to allow that gift to manifest. This is another reason for practicing Qigong.

 

I don't have a lot of time to write here but these are a couple of reasons to practice. The theoretical approach to the practice of Qigong is different from Gongfu (IMO) and it takes time and effort (years, not months or weeks) to see results, real results.

 

That's the best I can answer right now. If you want someone to prove it to you through science before investing your time in practice then you'll have a long wait. And you will be missing prescious time that could have been devoted to practice.

 

hope this helps.

[rsalazar]

 

Is it really? His organization has people come all the time and try to demonstrate abilities. Most are genuinely surprised when they fail. Randi would not cover up a discovery like that and no scientist has a real incentive to do so at all. Real science loves to buck the status quo. That's where the interesting stuff is. That's where the money is. No one wants to sit around and write papers on stuff everyone agrees about. If there was really something to get your teeth into here, young physics students would be writing thesis papers on it and winning acclaim and fame.

 

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Hey Disciple,

Great points, although in my opinion this is the ideal, your mileage may vary depending on the lab your in - in some cases, it may very well be in the interest of a lab invested in certain ideas to keep the status quo - look at what is being funded for RO grants (at least in biology), most is not concerned with bucking the status quo, although I hope things are changing. I totally agree that the real science is in the stuff that cracks current foundations, although if you look at the history of science, inertia rules all. Look at the time delay between initial discoveries and the actual acceptance by the majority: Semmelweis and hygiene, scurvy, etc.

 

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Were these published in any journals? I'm not a biologist so I can't judge this material. They seem to make several very very casual assumptions about the nature of this energy and that it even exists which I found a little unusual for a biological paper, but again, not an expert.

 

---------------------------------

 

Good points - one of the fundamental problems seems to be at the cause/effect level. To date, no one, in the East or West to my knowledge, has been able to identify "what" qi is with current instrumentation - all experiments show effects, but the form of the effect usually fits to an energy that is being measured, so this includes EM, radioactive particles, etc.

 

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Yeah that's a good point. It could be there's some real stuff here and it just hasn't migrated over yet. It's hard to trust Chinese journals when it comes to hard sciences. A lot of them are kind of cruddy. There is also a lot of state-sponsored stuff that kind of totes the party line. If there is something that acts externally really here, that is stronger than placebo, it wont be hard to test for. When I've seen tests done that failed, people would claim that the experimenters had some kind of negative energy that stopped it from working or something.

 

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I agree there is a problem with Western scientist trusting some of the data, especially where politics muddies the picture. I also agree that negative intent makes a great excuse for things not working, although I wonder if some of this phenomena can in fact be affected.

 

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That's funny you mention that because I do a very similar trick. I made a very very small device that fits in my shoe and is completely impossible to detect unless you hold and examine the shoe very carefully. It charges my body with static and I can turn it on and off with a tiny movement of my feet. With that I can shock people or move small objects. I showed it to an older couple and they were not even surprised. They said they used to have a toy or something similar when they were younger. I'm sure your experience was profound, and I'm not saying he was tricking you. My problem is, I'm pretty serious when I get into something and I don't want to waste any of my time on ineffective techniques. I need to _know_ and my standards of _knowing_ are high.

 

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Yeah, I think it's always a great idea to learn some amateur magic, just so we are aware of the mundane possibilities. When I was shocked by Peng, the shocks came in 1-2 sec. pulses, just on the edge of my pain threshold - at the forehead, it felt like I was getting jackhammered, electrical feelings extended into my teeth -there were also audible popping noises, like you hear with a taser, I wish I could have recorded audio - I saw no phosphenes when I closed my eyes, I saw no visible sparking - facial muscles did not contract at all, but larger muscles contracted with treatment, just my experience.

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To me, it still seems pretty easy. Just e-mail [email protected] or call anyone's number on the website and setup a test. You both agree to the conditions and that they are fair. Then you show up or setup some other way of doing it, get tested, get a ton of money and enough fame that you'll never have to work a single day in your life ever again. Just off the top of my head, if you can heal, then we maybe get 60 rats and injure them all completely identically and set 20 aside as a control, use 20 for the experiment and 20 for the placebo. You do whatever you do to heal the rats -- hold them or whatever. Then someone completely untrained will simply hold the 20 in the placebo group. Do this and if the results are statistically significant, repeat the procedure, write up the results in a paper, publish it and try hard to think of how much you'll enjoy the fame.

 

 

 

 

Sure, scientists are people too, and some are better than others and some are more rigid than others. Science, though, is not all stuffy rooms and white haired people that refuse to change. That's what thesis papers are for. That's what the new young blood does -- they buck the status quo. As I said before, that's where the exciting stuff is and where people will dig. Digging is being done but exciting results are not forthcoming.

 

 

 

 

Yes, there is a lot of information but the quality of the information is uniformly low. Not all scientific institutions and cultures are equal. Western science is top notch, and standards are incredibly high.

 

 

 

 

My goal wasn't really to take on all of supernatural-dom, but I will if people want to throw some stuff at me and I have enough time. Really, I just wanted some feedback on this particular system and if and how anyone knows the hours they spend on this a week are actually doing what they're supposed to be doing. William Tiller makes some very fundamental errors. His thinking is not clear and I don't even know where to begin. If you want to offer up some specific points we could do that, but we should make another thread or talk in PMs.

 

With regards to super natural powers, healing chi, psychic abilities and so on, how would these have evolved? People used to believe in them much more strongly and leaned on them much more heavily to explain the moving shadows in the dark and more and more science is shedding light and finding answers -- putting the pieces together -- giving us a wealth of technology. All the while super natural abilities are pushed more and more to the fringes, always seeming to perfectly elude scrutiny. I would love it if healing chi, chi materialization, telekinesis, etc were real -- I really would, but if I'm going to spend an hour plus a day working on something, I need high standards of evidence. I'm desperate, really. Iron palm? Yeah, that's legit. I know from personal experience. Internal strength? Nothing esoteric about it. It can be felt and understood in a few minutes and can be very nicely explained in western terms.

 

Very cool points, I'll continue additional discourse on PM.

Cheers,

Rene'

[zen-bear]

[zen-bear]

Sifu Garry,

 

Sorry, I forgot that you're in Australia and that you may not get PBS programs on TV the same that we do in the States.

 

At any rate, I happened to noticed that the producer of this PBS documentary is a guy named Garry Garripoli, who has some DVD's (with a nefarious distributor I sued in 2000) teaching exactly the type of downstream qigong that I ignore (because it only muddies the water), so I have mixed feelings about this documentary doing any good other than making people aware of there word Qigong.

 

Again: To much public exposure of a once sacred art that imbues one with supernormal AND/OR supernatural power is prone to make it the object of ambition of the profane.

 

That is why high masters of Chinese, Indian, Tibetan, Persian (etc.) yogic arts throughout the centuries have seldom succumbed to trading their sacred, hard-earned/hard-won knowledge for money or temporal power. They mostly realize that the powerful gifts that were passed on to them after a life of sacrifice and demonstrable service are not their property to hawk, but something lent to their spirits to be passed on to others all in order to help humanity. But those who do succumb to prostituting their gifts for pure mundane gain--and I have personally witnessed several in my life thus far--live only to agonizingly regret it and to know that if they bartered away their "mystic wish-granting gem," they get to come back on the next round with none that knowledge and no access to learning it again. It's not a matter of belief or superstition; once you have practiced the right exercises long enough, and have been tested by your sifu and by life, you know the workings of karma as naturally as you know that your heart beats or that your hair grows (or in case of your hair, doesn't grow )

 

As a rule, I don't teach any martial qigong until a student has studied kung-fu for about 10 years (and not necessarily under me). (Flying Phoenix is a purely medical qigong system, so I teach it to beginners and also published it on DVD per GM Doo Wai's consent). But before my students learn any martial qigong, they are required to read 3 works: Secret of the Golden Flower, the first five books by Carlos Castaneda, and "Tibetan Yoga and Secret Doctrines" by W.Y. Evans-Wentz. The last is one of my favorites. And in responding to last weeks' discussion about GM Doo Wai's powers that he's reportedly claimed and publicized, and someone's question of why, if GM Doo Wai does indeed have such supernormal powers, why hasn't he introduced it to rigorous scientific study and investigation to change the paradigm of science and commerce and make millions of dollars, I will refer to one of my favorites now from Evans-Wentz superb translation:

 

"(9) Performing meritorious actions in order merely to attain fame and praise in this world is like bartering the mystic wish-granting gem for a pellet of goat's dung; and this is a grievous failure."

"The Thirteen Grievous Failures", Precepts of the Gurus,

Tibetan Yoga and Secret Doctrines.

 

It's really as simple as that. It's Cause and effect.

 

In other words, selling out one's occult skills will put one in a world of shit and create/incur a karmic debt for oneself.

 

e.g., it inevitably starts a feeding frenzy on one's soul by egomaniacal twits and self-deluded ignoramuses greedy for power they're not ready for and can't use anyway without self-destruction. And this is true in all yogic cultures in the world—East to West.

 

Aleister Crowley, one of the greatest masters of alchemy and one of the earliest western masters of Taoist arts and philosophy, taught:

"If your magick or occult work is not given up 100% to God The Almighty, then it is black magic."

 

I've found out that Crowley is absolutely right. There is no gray area. There is only black and white when it comes to one's intentions about learning high-level Qigong and Kung-fu.

 

Human nature is human nature…and the basic fact of human nature is that power corrupts. That is why the Chinese martial culture has the saying among sifu's: "Heaven punishes you ten-fold for teaching the wrong person." This applies to Chinese martial arts and more so to spiritual arts in any culture.

 

I am friends with several members of secret societies who practice western hermetic philosophy similar to Society of Golden Dawn, Rosicrutians, and the O.T.O.

And their practices go far beyond what I have seen GM Doo Wai demonstrate in the context Chinese martial and healing arts. And I have witnessed spiritual fall-out that will want to make one hide in a monastery for years.

 

BTW, the Tibetans have 38 sets of Precepts, each set containing ten or more Basic Proverbs like this one --that all must be memorized and recited by initiates. Throughout their history of 3,000 years, they learned the hard way to develop these guideposts of wisdom so that students of their Yogas didn't screw up and make grievious mistakes with the powers that developed as side-effects of their spiritual training. In every Yogic and spiritual tradition, the supernormal and supernatural powers are only a side-effects that one can only maintained and further developed through proper use. And the easiest, most natural use of internal energy is for healing. So if one doesn't have the intent to dedicate oneself to healing others. one needs to think twice about one's motivation in studying Qigong.

 

Clarification of terms is very much needed here—what Confucius called "the rectification of names": GM Doo Wai's healing and martial powers that I witnessed during six years of training were extraordinary, but they were supernormal—NOT "supernatural." There is a big, big difference between supernormal and supernatural. GM Doo Wai's demonstrations exercised his high cultivation of internal energy coupled with psychic power; and did not invoke the intervention and assistance of spiritual entities. While GM Doo Wai's high healing skill was under the spiritual channel of the Flying Phoenix Qigong tradition, and his high martial prowess functioned under the spiritual channel of his ancestors, which called a "trunk", this type of spiritual "channeling" differs greatly from the spiritual channel of ordained Taoist priests like Masters Share K. Lew and Kuan Sai Hung, whose Taoist sects avail them of the supernatural power of their temple's respective guardian spirits. One of my classmates under GM (a good friend who I introduced to the GM) was a senior student of Taoist Priest Kuan Sai Hung in San Francisco, and when he showed GM Doo Wai b&w photos of Master Kuan, GM knew immediately that he was a Huashan priest who practiced Huashan's "san-dah"—or what I call Taoist "Guardian-Spirit Possession"—where the priest or adept makes a "deal" or "pact" with the Temple's Presiding Spirit through ritual that allows that protective diety to enter the body at will and imbue it with truly supernatural power. (This type of spiritualism is similar to the "deal"-process used in the Voodoo and Santaria traditions—only it's Chinese and with Taoist or Buddhist Deities. Islamic Shia also has similar practices—more reason for the U.S. and the West not to make war against Iran for no good reason). Normally, the "deal" involves vows of poverty, chastitiy, humility and service). I have witnessed this type of spiritual possession twice because being part of Master Share K. Lew's tradition exposed me to other Taoists who practiced what I call guardian-spirit possession, and each time, it was thee most terrifying experience of my life where very hair on my body stood on end, for I knew that at the slightest whim—which knows no difference between rational or irrational—the Temple's Spirit could snap me backwards in two at the waist. (I have had five near-death encounters—two mountaineering; one nearly by drowning when I tried to rescue a Tai Chi classmate in 1992 from freezing water at Pescadero State Beach,CA during a Ben Lo Tai Chi retreat); one surviving the gunshot that I described in earlier posting (by which I took out a serial killer), and the fifth: in 1976 starting to die from a painless internal punch from my sifu and then being resuscitated by him, in order to learn how to use the Tao Tan Pai neigong.—And NONE OF THESE 5 NEAR DEATH EXPERIENCES were as terrifying as being in the same room as an inhabiting Taoist Spirit. Once it was inhabiting the medium's body, the medium's body visibly changed shape (and size to a small extent) and he could perform perfect Kung-fu of a power and speed that was super-human—although he claimed that he had not one day of kung-fu training in his entire life!! The medium can also be chopped, shot, stabbed, sliced every which way by a razor sharp sword, doused with gasoline and lit, and nothing--absolutely nothing--could damage his flesh, eyes, hair. Clothing burnt to ashes, but nothing happened to one speck of bodily tissue. Nothing. (Besides my personal experience of this, I know that such real Taoist spiritualism is what was used to mislead masses of Chinese rebels during the Boxer Rebellion into believing that they were invincible to the bullets of the western colonial powers they were fighting (they were manipulated into believing that would be invincible to firearms if they would burn a talisman, eat its ashes, chant a spell, etc.) These Taoist sects, Huashan, Wudang, Maoshan, Ehrmeishan (buddhist) etc. all have secret codices for spiritual conduct similar to the Tibetans' secret doctrines. While extremely rare here in America, such Taoist priests and spiritualists do exist (Master Share K. Lew and Master Kuan Sai Hung are the only two Taoist priests in America that I know of who are totally at-home with such practices). But if you're not aware of the reality of such spiritual operations, and go in for kung-fu and qigong for the wrong reasons, and even if you have actually develop impressive supernormal powers, if you somehow foolishly insult or even annoy a Taoist spiritualist, your kung-fu can be instantly and completely erased through a touch on the third eye; or if you've become a menace to society, you can snuffed out like a moth and your spirit will be wandering through a netherworld for an immeasurable time trying to find out what the fuck happened. (e.g, Just like those poor souls who were killed so suddenly at the World Trade Center on 9-11 and for weeks and months afterwards were floating in the sky like sausages after the buildings had tumbled down, still expecting to go home but wondering why they weren't going home to their families—only ten times worse because your spirit will be taken to a totally unknown, never-seen-before realm.)

 

All that is to say that there's a vast difference between "supernormal" power and "supernatural" power, and that GM Doo Wai's abilities were at the absolute peak of human potential in the realm of the "supernormal". That said, supernormal feats while wonderful and healthy to develop and very inspiring to see, don't hold a candle to the supernatural ones. Thus because of what I've seen in Chinese martial, yogic, healing, and spiritual arts (and the things that I want to do and things that I never want to do), in order protect myself and to ensure that my students reach their fullest potential safely, I require them to study the traditional guiding precepts of monastic Taoism and Buddhism--or those of a counterpart spiritual path in the west.

 

oops, forgot to sign this long one.

It's me,

 

Sifu Terry

Edited November 14, 2012 by zen-bear

[Spirit Ape]

Tell me in the 7 years, who was your BFP teachers and what are your learning from video?

 

Terry Sifu,

 

Ill email you, you mentioned something that ive been researching for sometime now and how it relates to Qi Kung, give me a few hrs though.

 

Sifu Garry

[zen-bear]

Tell me in the 7 years, who was your BFP teachers and what are your learning from video?

 

Terry Sifu,

 

Ill email you, you mentioned something that ive been researching for sometime now and how it relates to Qi Kung, give me a few hrs though.

 

Sifu Garry

 

 

Sifu Garry,

 

I don't understand your first question:

Tell me in the 7 years, who was your BFP teachers and what are your learning from video?

 

Is that directed at me?

 

If it is, the answer is: I studied with GM Doo Wai directly from 1990 until 1996. His senior students that he brought alone to help teach us were: Kevin Ulmer and Bob Eberhardt. News came to me in 1997 or 98 that Bob Eberhardt had died on a street in San Diego (cause unknown).

 

Regarding your research matter, take your time, ask me about it any time. I'll help if I can.

 

Regards,

 

Terry Dunn

[Spirit Ape]

No Mate that was directed at the other guy regarding he said he has been doing BFP for 7 years just asking what he has learnt and what teachers?

 

This one is for you though!!

 

Whats your thoughts on Kabballa & western alchemy vs daoist /buddhist alchemy methods?

 

Sifu Garry

[DiscipleOfScience]

No Mate that was directed at the other guy regarding he said he has been doing BFP for 7 years just asking what he has learnt and what teachers?

 

I'd really like to keep my teacher private. I learned iron palm levels 1 and 2 in person and I can do the level 1 coconut break, though not level 2. I also practiced flying phoenix heavenly chi materialization meditations along with the diet (bok choy, tofu soup and rice gets old fast) and sexual and alcohol abstinence for a few months every day for an hour. I'm not really sure why this is important. A lot of the art still seems like mysticism and I have yet to find exponents of it sparring or performing any miracles apart from the occasional haphazard coconut break. I'd really, really like to be proved wrong here, but I've looked hard and all I could find was this. There's also a forum or two with a lot of drama between Lacy and Doo Wai, but I'd rather not wade into that mess.

[zen-bear]

No Mate that was directed at the other guy regarding he said he has been doing BFP for 7 years just asking what he has learnt and what teachers?

 

This one is for you though!!

 

Whats your thoughts on Kabballa & western alchemy vs daoist /buddhist alchemy methods?

 

Sifu Garry

 

That's a huge and broad question that I can write several books about.

but here's my basic reponse for starters:

While the symbols and language in the two systems are as different as East and West, the process of communing with God and allying with spiritual entities is the same general process governed by the same (spiritual) laws because human potential for developing spirituality and capacity to practice spiritualism is the same. There are many common alchemic threads between western alchemy and taoist/buddhist alchemy...they are just symbolized and codified (made secret) very differently by their respective cultures. Both western alchemy, middle eastern alchemy, and Tibetan/Chinese/taoist/buddhist alchemy share the same fundamental realization/perception of the nature of the Universe and relationship between man and God. e.g., one hint of this is the fact that the Star and David and Tai Chi Tu (yin yang diagram) represent the exact same physical and metaphysical process: two interpenetrating conically-shaped fields of energy.

[Spirit Ape]

Thanks for sharing your BFP Information and I would stay away from that forum you speak of also!

 

Any experiences with the materialization?

 

 

Sifu Terry,

 

Hope all is well and thankyou we do share many things of intrest, I do know that western hermetic or esoteric methods use the old chess board which is yin yang black white, the same as the Yin Yang in Taoism. They use the chess board as a meditation by looking at it in the dark with candle. I guess the Yin Yang could also be used this way is all magic to me really. Any chi work espciallly the stuff I got from Sifu, he was teaching me similar to this?

 

My Burning Palm system uses the elements, evoking, invoking plus more! I found the Rosy cross (rosicrusion very interesting with its magical rites of the cross and the elements related it works with my Primordial chaos one chi palm system as alot of the moves and names relate with these energies and symbolism through words and movements.

 

interesting thanks for sharing...

 

respectfully

Garry

[zen-bear]

oops, forgot to sign this long one.

It's me,

 

Sifu Terry

 

 

P.S. I'VE elaborated ON some of my most profound martial experiences above in order to lend some perspective on "supernormal" vs."supernatural" powers developed through qigong on one hand, and through qigong PLUS spiritualism on the other. And furthermore to explain the absolute necessity for the tradition of secrecy in Chinese martial arts and in all authentic and COMPLETE yogic arts of the world, that has been in place for thousands of years. Because mastery of these arts means that one EFFECTIVELY realizes that the laws of physics are on the plane of mental control, the higher knowledge in every martial art is always meted slowly and in fragments over a long period of time; quite often, the entire art is not transmitted to the next generation if the particular master doesn't find his disciple(s) trustworthy enough to receive the whole Truth. (It is true that a part of the Chinese martial arts dies with each generation; many great arts have been entirely lost.) The final installment of higher teachings within any system, as recorded in all the Taoist, Buddhist, and Christian chronicles and canons, is always "a teaching beyond words" given to student(s) who are developed-cultivated-evolved enough to receive it. Done sometimes using symbols, sometimes oral teachings, and sometimes entirely telepathically. It is NEVER recorded entirely in writing...and certainly never on a video! But for advanced students to receive a teaching telepathetically, they have to had trained properly in the physical aspects of the art for years with enough meditation concentration to become attuned to the psychic wavelength that the master chooses to operate on. No beginner can do this--unless he an incredibly gifted young prodigy and young avatar, but which I have not seen nor heard of in my life so far.

 

There are some masters like GM Doo Wai who advertise and promote their skills in more sensational and controversial ways than most (whether out of pride for and love of their art, or perhaps even due to financial duress and the need to make a living). Such masters naturally attract both students fascinated with the possibility of supernormal feats and also critics and skeptics of a certain rigid Aristotelian mindset that just don't allow for that possibility. To the latter, I have nothing to say...that's their belief system and they construct and filter their experience of the world by that belief system, and I have no desire to change their worldview in anyway. But for beginning students and adepts who are interested in exploring Chinese holistic arts to their fullest potential, they MUST acquaint themselves with the traditions of Chinese martial culture if they hope to learn any bit of the true art (and that includes how to pour tea for the master at the first meeting; to how to address the ancestral altar in a kung-fu school, to how visit other kung-fu schools and pay respect to other instructors, and especially, to understand and respect the tradition of secrecy--which most often translates into the necessity for students to just exhibit humility and not ask or demand anything of the teacher that they are not ready for--to bide their time, do their kung-fu until it reaches a level of excellence where worlds of higher knowledge are opened to them by their master or other masters. The watchphrase for all students (and masters as well) on the path is this: "When you are ready, the Knowledge will be made available to you."

 

And it's not a tradition of absolute, total secrecy. This tradition of secrecy also has its character and charm that's a function of each master's personality and his particular tradition--it's like a great puzzle set out for students, where the masters follow the adage, "never show to plainly."

 

But if students are in ignor-ance or disregard of the Chinese tradition of respect for the Sifu and of secrecy to protect the art, won't get even to square one.

 

The third line of the very first verse of the Tao Te Ching is translated by Aleister Crowley as:

To understand this Mystery, one must be fulfilling one's will.**

If one is not thus free, one will but gain a smattering of it.

**"fulfilling one's will" he beautiful explains in a footnote as:

"In a moral state therefore, without desire, frictionless."

 

Finally, to re-emphasize this same sentiment: the sacred Chinese martial and healing arts were created to serve and better mankind. If that's not part of one's motivation, then one should take up something else. The great philosopher Mencius put it in most practical terms in Chinese (and it translates into something like this):

 

"Do not seek in your vitality (i.e., your vital exercises, martial arts, etc.) what you do not find in your heart."

[zen-bear]

P.S. I'VE elaborated ON some of my most profound martial experiences above in order to lend some perspective on "supernormal" vs."supernatural" powers developed through qigong on one hand, and through qigong PLUS spiritualism on the other. And furthermore to explain the absolute necessity for the tradition of secrecy in Chinese martial arts and in all authentic and COMPLETE yogic arts of the world, that has been in place for thousands of years. Because mastery of these arts means that one EFFECTIVELY realizes that the laws of physics are on the plane of mental control, the higher knowledge in every martial art is always meted slowly and in fragments over a long period of time; quite often, the entire art is not transmitted to the next generation if the particular master doesn't find his disciple(s) trustworthy enough to receive the whole Truth. (It is true that a part of the Chinese martial arts dies with each generation; many great arts have been entirely lost.) The final installment of higher teachings within any system, as recorded in all the Taoist, Buddhist, and Christian chronicles and canons, is always "a teaching beyond words" given to student(s) who are developed-cultivated-evolved enough to receive it. Done sometimes using symbols, sometimes oral teachings, and sometimes entirely telepathically. It is NEVER recorded entirely in writing...and certainly never on a video! But for advanced students to receive a teaching telepathetically, they have to had trained properly in the physical aspects of the art for years with enough meditation concentration to become attuned to the psychic wavelength that the master chooses to operate on. No beginner can do this--unless he an incredibly gifted young prodigy and young avatar, but which I have not seen nor heard of in my life so far.

 

There are some masters like GM Doo Wai who advertise and promote their skills in more sensational and controversial ways than most (whether out of pride for and love of their art, or perhaps even due to financial duress and the need to make a living). Such masters naturally attract both students fascinated with the possibility of supernormal feats and also critics and skeptics of a certain rigid Aristotelian mindset that just don't allow for that possibility. To the latter, I have nothing to say...that's their belief system and they construct and filter their experience of the world by that belief system, and I have no desire to change their worldview in anyway. But for beginning students and adepts who are interested in exploring Chinese holistic arts to their fullest potential, they MUST acquaint themselves with the traditions of Chinese martial culture if they hope to learn any bit of the true art (and that includes how to pour tea for the master at the first meeting; to how to address the ancestral altar in a kung-fu school, to how visit other kung-fu schools and pay respect to other instructors, and especially, to understand and respect the tradition of secrecy--which most often translates into the necessity for students to just exhibit humility and not ask or demand anything of the teacher that they are not ready for--to bide their time, do their kung-fu until it reaches a level of excellence where worlds of higher knowledge are opened to them by their master or other masters. The watchphrase for all students (and masters as well) on the path is this: "When you are ready, the Knowledge will be made available to you."

 

And it's not a tradition of absolute, total secrecy. This tradition of secrecy also has its character and charm that's a function of each master's personality and his particular tradition--it's like a great puzzle set out for students, where the masters follow the adage, "never show to plainly."

 

But if students are in ignor-ance or disregard of the Chinese tradition of respect for the Sifu and of secrecy to protect the art, won't get even to square one.

 

The third line of the very first verse of the Tao Te Ching is translated by Aleister Crowley as:

To understand this Mystery, one must be fulfilling one's will.**

If one is not thus free, one will but gain a smattering of it.

**"fulfilling one's will" he beautiful explains in a footnote as:

"In a moral state therefore, without desire, frictionless."

 

Finally, to re-emphasize this same sentiment: the sacred Chinese martial and healing arts were created to serve and better mankind. If that's not part of one's motivation, then one should take up something else. The great philosopher Mencius put it in most practical terms in Chinese (and it translates into something like this):

 

"Do not seek in your vitality (i.e., your vital exercises, martial arts, etc.) what you do not find in your heart."

 

Sifu Terry Dunn

[Fu_dog]

Sifu Terry - your posts are priceless. I have pointed several of my friends to this thread over the past few weeks, and they all have given me positive comment after reading.

 

I can't thank you enough for sharing, as your commentary significantly enhances our understanding and appreciation of this wonderful art.

 

Fu_dog

[Spirit Ape]

I sat through and participated in a sun dar spirit boxing in the burbs outside of hongkong!

 

[Sahaj Nath]

Sifu Terry,

 

i've been reading your posts for a while now.

 

i'm curious as to the ranks of your friends in the hermetic and thelemic orders, and whether or not your interpretation of crowley comes from conversations with them or from your own reading. there are a number of masters in the western esoteric traditions that would support much, possibly most, of what you've written here. but i'm not so sure that crowley is one of them. Thelema is a different monster from Traditional Hermeticism. and the way i understand crowley, Hannibal Lecter would better fit his notion of 'frictionless' than what you've expressed here. highest morality as Amorality, and even a willingness to employ so-called Immorality to free oneself of moral constructs so that pure, unencumbered WILL can make itself manifest.

 

i ask you this with respect, and you're welcome to disregard the question if you so choose.

[zen-bear]

Thanks for sharing your BFP Information and I would stay away from that forum you speak of also!

 

Any experiences with the materialization?

 

 

Sifu Terry,

 

Hope all is well and thankyou we do share many things of intrest, I do know that western hermetic or esoteric methods use the old chess board which is yin yang black white, the same as the Yin Yang in Taoism. They use the chess board as a meditation by looking at it in the dark with candle. I guess the Yin Yang could also be used this way is all magic to me really. Any chi work espciallly the stuff I got from Sifu, he was teaching me similar to this?

 

My Burning Palm system uses the elements, evoking, invoking plus more! I found the Rosy cross (rosicrusion very interesting with its magical rites of the cross and the elements related it works with my Primordial chaos one chi palm system as alot of the moves and names relate with these energies and symbolism through words and movements.

 

interesting thanks for sharing...

 

respectfully

Garry

 

 

Sifu Garry,

 

Yes, schools of western hermetic philosophy such the Order of the Rosy Cross, Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn, O.T.O (Ordo Templi Orientis = "Order of Oriental Templars") utilize iconic symbols, and yantric patterns such as the black-and-white chessboard floor--along with many other more familiar symbols and patterns that are also used in eastern alchemy: pentagrams, hexagrams, heptagrams and even the Tree of Life or "holy sepheroth" of Kaballah. Pentagrams are used in western alchemy for all sorts of rituals--white and black,invoking and banishing, as are hexagrams. But the most common and universal pattern found East, Middle East and West is the regular hexagram known as the Star of David, which represents the exact same natural process as the Tai Chi Tu (yin yang diagram. I realized this early on because I did so much Tai Chi. But Yin-Yang diagram and Star of David ARE ESSENTIALLY THE SAME THING: both represent interpenetrating cones of infinite energy. The Star of David is a sectioned view from the side, thus the cones look flat and 2-D. the Yin Yang diagram is a flattened perspective from the infinite base of one cone penetrated by the infinite apex of the other cone. To use the star of David/Yin-Yang Diagram directly in qigong meditation, get Aleister Crowley's "Book of Lies." there is a very clear chapter in it about the importance of the Star of David/Yin-Yang Diagram to all meditation and spiritual work.

 

I always tell my advanced students that the identicalness of the Star of David to the Tai Chi Diagram is the second most important reason why Jewish people and Chinese people are so similar. The the first reason is that both like Chinese food!!

 

The Yin Yang diagram, of course, is used in every movement in Chen Style Tai Chi Chuan. Hence, one of the early names of Chen style TC is "diagram boxing". I learned some Chen style in 1983-5 from John Fey and today i still teach Chen style exercises (for warm-ups)that use a short staff (reaching to tan tien level) planted in front of the right foot in a bow stance with the right hand placed on top of the staff with either palm-touching or knife-edge of hand touching resting on staff . Then the entire body traces the yin-yang pattern horizontally over and over and over and over, shifting the body through bowstance and rear sit-stance with every turning position in between. (Do same thing in left bow stance, with left palm on staff, staff planted in front of left toe. After doing this Tai Chi Diagram Boxing for 25 years, I can tell you that I can visualize any path of movement on that diagram as a pathway on the Kabbalistic Tree of Life.

 

Also for the best and most clear and concise presentation of alchemic symbols and tools and rituals, get "Book 4" by Aleister Crowley, 120 pages published by Samuel Weiser Books. It also contains one of the very best explanations of eastern Yogas ever written by a westerner. I highly recommend this, given your interest in western alchemy.

 

And for a pretty complete encyclopedia of western alchemic symbols and rituals, you can get Israel Regardie's "The Golden Dawn." published by Llewellyn. It is an incredible tome, and quite affordable. And ingeniusly compiled, as the true rituals of the Order of the Golden Dawn are presented in fragments--a chunk of one here, tied to a chunk there tied to another chunk there; about 1,000+ rituals are combined like one huge, enormous--but solvable--multi-layered, 3-dimensional, jigsaw puzzle. almost every oracle used in western alchemy is covered--tarot, numerology, astrology,flashing tablets,pentagram rituals, hexagram rituals, octogram, decagram, enneagram, other talismans,elemental weapons, Enochian magick...

 

Have Fun!

 

Terry Dunn

 

P.S. you think GM Doo Wai gets a bad rap?--wait til you read about the life of Aleister Crowley--called by his Victorian English peers "the most wicked man in the world" and a "black magician" --hee hee-- Crowley was a towering spiritual genius who streaked through the highest ranks of the Society of the Golden Dawn in his 20's. He was one of the very first westerners to master eastern yogas and then he blended these methods with western alchemy. Later in life, once he reached his full powers, he gave himself the moniker, "The Beast, 666" and then dealt with everyone who came to him attracted by that. Now THAT, Sifu Garry, is POWER. There is still widespread belief in the slander about his drug-taking and sexual operations, and that he was a black magician, etc.--but he was a white magician of the highest order, who never took an iota free will away from any being--and who's credo/watchphrase from his Law of Thelema was "Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be the Whole of the Law." If you get Book 4, read Page 81 to the bottom, and you'll understand the true Crowley. Around 2002, I think, there was a poll taken in England, which asked the population to vote for the 100 most important Brits in their entire history. Aleister Crowley was voted No. 72 out of 100. I'm glad that the Brits came around to appreciate one of their own as one of their very best.

 

***To bring the conversation back to Flying Phoenix and Chinese arts: Crowley also wrote a unique and brilliant translation of the Tao Te Ching--based on his remembered past life of Ko Hsuan,a student of Lao Tzu, and the author of Classic on Purity. which, combined with my study of the Tao Te Ching translated from classical Chinese,greatly expanded my understanding.

 

I started training with GM Doo Wai in late 1990 and met my teacher/mentor in western alchemy in 1994. The powerful kung fu and Qigong that I learned from DM Doo Wai made it possible for me to learn alchemy like putting on a perfectly-fitting coat.

[Spirit Ape]

Wow, thanks Terry Sifu, you know I feel the same way about the Burning Palm that I learned from sifu and how it is based on magic be it daoist/buddhist or western alchemy I find it all within what he taught me. He once told me that alot of masters thought that he /GMDW was a BLACK MAGICIAN, some feared him due to his skills? We used to do experiments online on webcam some just on MSN chat. He freaked me out plenty of times!

 

I have some of aleister crowley books ill read more very interested in his veiw on yoga and dao te ching and yin yang theory. Thanks for the heads up, i see so much hidden in the yin yang and in my primordial chaos system there is alot of tracing the yin yang diagram in footwork, body or arms as well some of the moves talk of the energies and splitting the yin yang.

 

regards

Sifu Garry

 

P.S Do you have any info on yin yang with connection to the flower of life symbol this is something im researching at present. What energy manifest from the flower of life?

[zen-bear]