Kundalini

[John Zen]

As far as I know, Qi and Prana are the same things, just named differently.

 

In my eyes, Kundalini is the circulating Qi, or the rising Prana, that can be detected either subtly, or as an "internal volcano erupting up the spine". The more intense the experience, the more enlightened the practitioner is/becomes.

 

What do you think? Has anyone had a Kundalini awakening on this board? If so, am I close to the mark?

[C T]

As far as I know, Qi and Prana are the same things, just named differently.

 

In my eyes, Kundalini is the circulating Qi, or the rising Prana, that can be detected either subtly, or as an "internal volcano erupting up the spine". The more intense the experience, the more enlightened the practitioner is/becomes.

 

What do you think? Has anyone had a Kundalini awakening on this board? If so, am I close to the mark?

Hi John Zen,

 

Enlightenment.. whats your personal definition? Is it an experiential process? An 'instant zap' kinda thing, or does it happen gradually? What does it entail? Does it effect one on different levels, or restricted only at the gross sensational level? Any other points you may want to add? Perhaps touch on a bit about your own experiences so that one can have a better idea where you are coming from before responding to your post(s)?

 

Your thoughts please. Thanks.

[fiveelementtao]

As far as I know, Qi and Prana are the same things, just named differently.

 

In my eyes, Kundalini is the circulating Qi, or the rising Prana, that can be detected either subtly, or as an "internal volcano erupting up the spine". The more intense the experience, the more enlightened the practitioner is/becomes.

 

What do you think? Has anyone had a Kundalini awakening on this board? If so, am I close to the mark?

 

Qi and Prana are (generally) the same thing. Kundalini is NOT simply "the circulating Qi, or the rising Prana". Kundalini is a different energy. People often make the mistake that they have awakened their kundalini because they have physical sensations of rising Chi. I could go on for a very long time, because the misidentification of Kundalini is one of my main pet peaves. But if you really want to know what kundalini is... get a teacher in the yogic traditions and learn. Do not seek to understand kundalini from a taoist teacher or from a forum... Taoist teachings and yogic teachings are VERY different. I have trained in both. IME people who want to merge the two sciences together are doing so out of ignorance and a misplaced naive desire to find the "one energy fits all" category.

 

But, I can assure you, you most likely have not even begun to awaken your kundalini. It takes years of daily practice in a yogic based system under the guidance of a qualified teacher to even begin awaken it... Kundalini work is very different from just qigong... Anyone who says otherwise IMO is misinformed....

[manitou]

I've been K-active for maybe 5 years - it happened as the result of a traffic accident - totally spontaneous. I had no idea what it was, just this really annoying movement of electrical energy up the spine. I was in a coffee house in |Ojai, CA - when a woman I'd never seen before walked up to me with a book. She said that |I 'had to read it soon'. She loaned it to me, said she uses the book to teach and that she needed it back quickly. I took the book from the total stranger, read it in one day, and sent it back to her. It was a book explaining kundalini energy - she had detected it in me, a complete stranger, because she too was K-active.

It never seems to stop, I'm aware of it every moment of the day. Sometimes it sits in the back of my head and it makes the back of my head really hot. Sometimes it'll sit in my throat chakra (I've subsequently done a little research and realized that it sits in the chakra that requires attention of some sort). Often it will sit under the skin at one shoulder blade or the other. It's rather like having constantly ringing ears (which I have also).

I honestly don't know what the damn thing is good for. I didn't ask for it. However, I must add that I had been studying various translations of the Tao for about 20 years, and so it's not as though I was totally unprepared for a new spiritual phenomena. But I really don't see what it's good for!!! At least, not at this point. Maybe it's just part of the evolution and I'll see the reason for it one day....

I am a seer. I don't know if kundalini energy has anything to do with that, but I think it doesn't, for some reason. The triangulation in the second attention is a totally different thing, I think. But on the other hand, I didn't develop the abilitiy to see until several years after the K-energy was awakened. So who knows???

[John Zen]

Hi John Zen,

 

Enlightenment.. whats your personal definition? Is it an experiential process? An 'instant zap' kinda thing, or does it happen gradually? What does it entail? Does it effect one on different levels, or restricted only at the gross sensational level? Any other points you may want to add? Perhaps touch on a bit about your own experiences so that one can have a better idea where you are coming from before responding to your post(s)?

 

Your thoughts please. Thanks.

 

I'd consider Enlightenment as the dissolution of the inner black hole, the Ego, and the birth of the inner Sun, or the Christ.

 

I've read that Kundalini rising to the brain is the true catalyst of this process, but have heard very vague definitions of what Kundalini is.

[C T]

Qi and Prana are (generally) the same thing. Kundalini is NOT simply "the circulating Qi, or the rising Prana". Kundalini is a different energy. People often make the mistake that they have awakened their kundalini because they have physical sensations of rising Chi. I could go on for a very long time, because the misidentification of Kundalini is one of my main pet peaves. But if you really want to know what kundalini is... get a teacher in the yogic traditions and learn. Do not seek to understand kundalini from a taoist teacher or from a forum... Taoist teachings and yogic teachings are VERY different. I have trained in both. IME people who want to merge the two sciences together are doing so out of ignorance and a misplaced naive desire to find the "one energy fits all" category.

 

But, I can assure you, you most likely have not even begun to awaken your kundalini. It takes years of daily practice in a yogic based system under the guidance of a qualified teacher to even begin awaken it... Kundalini work is very different from just qigong... Anyone who says otherwise IMO is misinformed....

In this time and age, I am afraid people just dont have that kind of patience anymore, 5ET. Mostly interested in instantaneous manifestations of results and visual displays of power, chi or whatever else is 'out there'. A bit sad really, to see that so much confusion has permeated the Western psyche in relation to authentic spiritual cultivation.

[voidisyinyang]

John Zen -- the term kundalini is used as a double-edged sword so to speak. Certain people get really self-righteous -- "that's not REAL Kundalini" they exclaim!

 

What this means is that there's the bottom up kundalini which is the jing or electrochemical bliss energy of the lower body from the sex energy. Then there's the top down Kundalini which is the shakti or shen laser-holographic light transmission. In fact the male energy is the electromagnetic top-down energy while the female energy is the bottom-up electrochemical energy. This is the great secret because males don't realize that electromagnetic energy is what attracts females.

 

When the laser light gets strong enough then it creates physical matter again as electrochemical energy!

 

This is why in Taoist Alchemy it's stated that alchemy starts and ends with jing or kundalini in India.

 

All these terms can be used to sound like someone knows something special -- a secret -- or they can be used to help clarify things. haha.

 

What gets left out of the whole kundalini energy discussion often is the concept of pure consciousness.

 

Consciousness creates light -- it's pure awareness as a process of energy transformation.

 

So consciousness is when the phase-shift of light cancels out the complementary opposites of frequency (timing) and amplitude (spatial size or strength). When the signal is canceled out then it reverses the phase-shift for an instantaneous or pure consciousness awareness beyond time itself. In western science this is called a scalar wave or it's called quantum entanglement.

 

When we "empty out" awareness via yoga or qigong then light turns black but does so through pure bliss and gets recharged from the jing kundalini electrochemical energy -- then reverses to creates more light.

 

This process is self-organizing which means we all exist within it -- just as black holes create galaxies which are then sucked back into black holes. It's eternal and impersonal.

 

If we can learn to resonate with the process itself then the energy feeds back on itself naturally as a free or open system. This resonance process is impersonal -- not through words or even visions -- but imprinted in number itself yet practiced through LISTENING.

 

So Yin and Yang and Emptiness are in Indian terms -- the three gunas -- tamas, sattva and raja. The three gunas is from the oldest philosophy of India.

 

 

 

As far as I know, Qi and Prana are the same things, just named differently.

 

In my eyes, Kundalini is the circulating Qi, or the rising Prana, that can be detected either subtly, or as an "internal volcano erupting up the spine". The more intense the experience, the more enlightened the practitioner is/becomes.

 

What do you think? Has anyone had a Kundalini awakening on this board? If so, am I close to the mark?

[Aetherous]

But if you really want to know what kundalini is... get a teacher in the yogic traditions and learn. Do not seek to understand kundalini from a taoist teacher or from a forum... Taoist teachings and yogic teachings are VERY different.

 

Hm, I usually agree with you, but disagree in this case.

[Prince...]

Hm, I usually agree with you, but disagree in this case.

Gonna have to go along with Scotty on this one. There is a message board for Christians who have aroused kundalini-- the majority of them having no idea what kundalini was until much later. The owner of the board is Phillip St. Romain, author of Kundalini Energy and Christian Spirituality. He had a complete awakening over the course of 3 years (well 17 years if you start with him recieving the gift of speaking in tongues). He did not study under a yogi or do any K-specific practices-- just centering prayer every morning for an hour before work.

[voidisyinyang]

Prince -- this is a fascinating read. I personally experience everything that Phillip St. Romain is describing -- the only difference is that he doesn't seem to understand where the lower body energy comes from. That there's an open circuit on the lower half of the body as well. That's o.k. though since he's not fasting -- at least he made no mention that I noticed.

 

http://www.innerexplorations.com/ewtext/moreon.htm

 

Gonna have to go along with Scotty on this one. There is a message board for Christians who have aroused kundalini-- the majority of them having no idea what kundalini was until much later. The owner of the board is Phillip St. Romain, author of Kundalini Energy and Christian Spirituality. He had a complete awakening over the course of 3 years (well 17 years if you start with him recieving the gift of speaking in tongues). He did not study under a yogi or do any K-specific practices-- just centering prayer every morning for an hour before work.

[Trunk]

Qi and Prana are (generally) the same thing. Kundalini is NOT simply "the circulating Qi, or the rising Prana". Kundalini is a different energy. People often make the mistake that they have awakened their kundalini because they have physical sensations of rising Chi.

Agreed.

ime, Kundalini is the connection to a more "universal" "powerful" energy. It's not just "hey, I can feel qi now". And it is not simply sexual energy engaged in spiritual practice.

Speaking from experience.

[fiveelementtao]

Hm, I usually agree with you, but disagree in this case.

Hi Scotty,

I am well aware that I am in the minority on this subject, especially on taoist forum...

but, I'm OK with that. What would life be without variety?

What do you disagree with? That someone should learn about kundalini from a yogi or that Taoist and Yogic disciplines are different?

 

I used to feel differently. Until I studied tantric esoteric yoga, all of my previously held beliefs of "one size fits all" energy and the belief that "it's all the same, just different cultures" was completely shattered...

 

But I will say that some the difference lies in each culture's understanding of the afterlife. Indian energetic practices are designed for a belief system based on reincarnation. Taoists, (especially early taoists) were concerned with becoming celestial immortals. The energy systems of each culture are designed to accomplish very different goals in the human body. I suppose a fire or Earth to heaven taoist practice has similarites to indian systems. Shang Ch'ing practices are very different than Indian practices.

 

I have talked ad nauseum on some older threads about the differences in the function of Kundalini, Indian versus Chinese spirituality etc... I am talking from personal as well as research experience. But, I have concluded that if someone is determined to believe that Kundalini is just another version of Chi, there is nothing I or anybody else can say to dissuade them regardless of evidence or experience. Since this is taoist forum, I won't waste space trying to explain the differences to a mostly hostile audience in this regard.

[Prince...]

Prince -- this is a fascinating read. I personally experience everything that Phillip St. Romain is describing -- the only difference is that he doesn't seem to understand where the lower body energy comes from. That there's an open circuit on the lower half of the body as well. That's o.k. though since he's not fasting -- at least he made no mention that I noticed.

 

http://www.innerexplorations.com/ewtext/moreon.htm

 

no real response for you, Drew. I can't speak for Phillip St. Romain. He has a forum up if you'd like to ask him for yourself. I will add that most of the people there are Christians and do not care for a scientific explanation about the nuts and bolts of kundalini. Most of them are afraid because they have spontaneously aroused kundalini and want someone to assure them that they won't go to hell because of it. Also, I don't think they are interested in learning Spring Forest Qigong either. (sorry, I had to get you)

[fiveelementtao]

Gonna have to go along with Scotty on this one. There is a message board for Christians who have aroused kundalini-- the majority of them having no idea what kundalini was until much later. The owner of the board is Phillip St. Romain, author of Kundalini Energy and Christian Spirituality. He had a complete awakening over the course of 3 years (well 17 years if you start with him recieving the gift of speaking in tongues). He did not study under a yogi or do any K-specific practices-- just centering prayer every morning for an hour before work.

 

I never said that people can't have spontaneous kundalini awakenings. I'm not convinced that all of them are actual kundalini, but even if they are... Those people usually have no control of the energy and most would happily end their kundalini experiences. The Indian systems are designed to slowly awaken kundalini in a controlled way to avoid the pain, discomfort, craziness of uncontrolled awakenings...

 

But in general, kundalini is VERY stubborn and cannot be awakened easily... A powerful chi or enlightenment experience does not necessarily mean kundalini. To have a good conversation about kundalini, we would have to first have a common definition of what Kundalini is and what it does. IME, most people I try to talk to about kundalini, get very upset because the definition of K as I was taught is very different than what most people think it is, where it comes from or what it does...

So, I guess I should just give up on this one and keep my mouth shut....

[Biff]

Qi and Prana are (generally) the same thing. Kundalini is NOT simply "the circulating Qi, or the rising Prana". Kundalini is a different energy. People often make the mistake that they have awakened their kundalini because they have physical sensations of rising Chi.

 

Agreed for shizzle. It's fact. Shakti is not prana.

 

IME people who want to merge the two sciences together are doing so out of ignorance and a misplaced naive desire to find the "one energy fits all" category.

 

Don't agree with that at all.

 

It takes years of daily practice in a yogic based system under the guidance of a qualified teacher to even begin awaken it...

 

That is not true for sure

[voidisyinyang]

Prince you might be interested in regards to SFQ -- Chunyi Lin goes to church every Sunday. He said that once in church there was this amazing light transmitting down from the cross in the front of the church. The light went down to him and then to the lady next to him but that was it. He said most of the people in the church are just cut off from real spirituality.

 

On the other hand I practiced full-lotus "O at a Ds" in a Christian drop-in center. It was wild because there was always a couple pervs hanging out there to suck off the young females -- as the center was close to both a high school and university. So I was battling against the pervs on a spiritual level. haha. I would just go in there and read whatever. Some of the females that were regulars there would rely on the healing energy which was cool.

 

Another time this more Christian fundamentalist center actually harrassed me to try to intimidate me. I was sitting in full-lotus in this community study-cafeteria area with a female -- again we were having O at a D -- psychic mutual climaxes. And everything was great but then the "Christians" showed up literally pointing a camera at me, as if sitting in full-lotus was satanic. I looked back at their cell phone camera -- there were two or three people up a level from me, behind a railing. It was totally dehumanizing -- as if I could be killed at any moment without a second thought on their part.

 

Ironically my minister had asked me to become a minister since I used to sing in the choir, read from the bible, and even performed piano in Church and my grandfather was a minister and I went to a Christian high school, etc. I told my minister that you don't need a church to be spiritual and he told me that actually the congregation was more like a country club -- treating him in a materialistic way.

 

So anyway I appreciate you sharing the Christian kundalini perspective since I've been looking for more on that as well. I even asked the new minister at my old church if I could live there to practice meditation since there used to be a security guard who lived in the church. Also I had worked there as a substitute security guard.

 

Still my views on religion are gnostic in accordance with http://truthbeknown.com and I even sent Chunyi Lin a copy of the book -- "The Christ Conspiracy" -- !!

 

no real response for you, Drew. I can't speak for Phillip St. Romain. He has a forum up if you'd like to ask him for yourself. I will add that most of the people there are Christians and do not care for a scientific explanation about the nuts and bolts of kundalini. Most of them are afraid because they have spontaneously aroused kundalini and want someone to assure them that they won't go to hell because of it. Also, I don't think they are interested in learning Spring Forest Qigong either. (sorry, I had to get you)

[C T]

no real response for you, Drew. I can't speak for Phillip St. Romain. He has a forum up if you'd like to ask him for yourself. I will add that most of the people there are Christians and do not care for a scientific explanation about the nuts and bolts of kundalini. Most of them are afraid because they have spontaneously aroused kundalini and want someone to assure them that they won't go to hell because of it. Also, I don't think they are interested in learning Spring Forest Qigong either. (sorry, I had to get you)

I find this quite intriguing, Prince..

 

Isn't there a more 'Christian' term that could be applied to these spontaneous experiences?

 

I mean, its not a 'new' thing, right? If i am not mistaken, the Christian mystics of old would have had such awakenings - so what was the term they had used to describe it, i wonder?

[fiveelementtao]

Agreed for shizzle. It's fact. Shakti is not prana.

Don't agree with that at all.

That is not true for sure

 

I'm willing to bet that you and I do not share a common definition of Kundalini. If I shared your definition, I might agree with you...

[CarsonZi]

In my opinion if you have to ask "Am I kundalini awakened" or "Is this kundalini" you aren't/it isn't. Kundalini is unmistakable and when it happens you know it is something more then just prana/chi circulating....it is unmistakable and when it happens you know it.

 

Just my experience though......and kundalini is just a word

 

Love,

Carson

Edited December 6, 2009 by CarsonZi

[Aetherous]

Fiveelementtao,

 

To have a good conversation about kundalini, we would have to first have a common definition of what Kundalini is and what it does

 

That's a good idea. What is your definition of what it is and what it does?

[Prince...]

I find this quite intriguing, Prince..

 

Isn't there a more 'Christian' term that could be applied to these spontaneous experiences?

 

I mean, its not a 'new' thing, right? If i am not mistaken, the Christian mystics of old would have had such awakenings - so what was the term they had used to describe it, i wonder?

 

In Phillip St. Romain's book, there is a section relating the experiences of Christian mystics to Kundalini. To respond to a previous post, and yours, I am going to have to say that St. Romain found his experiences to be somewhat consistent with those of Gopi Krishna.

 

The problem with the literature, according to St. Romain, is that Christian mystics just say what they experience. They don't call it Kundalini, Holy Spirit, or anything. In whatever language of the time of the writing they describe an experience. I remember reading some of those works back in college (before knowing the little I do know about kundalini) and thinking "what the hell are these people talking about?" There is not really anything in Christian literature about kundalini, as far as saying flat out "this is kundalini."

 

I even have material from a Christian mystic who passed away in the early 90's and he is very cryptic when it comes to Kundalini saying it is only for the advanced students.

 

I have heard Kundalini expressed as Holy Spirit. I don't like this description because Kundalini is from one tradition, Holy Spirit is from another. I agree with fiveelementtao in that I do not like crossing traditions. I do see a HUGE resemblance between Pentacostalism and Siddha yoga (not sure if this is the proper term... whatever form of yoga is all based on recieving shaktipats from a Guru). At the same time, I don't see all practices or all religions as being the same. There are some shared aspects that I believe help one to experience that which transcends the God (or Gods) of Religion, but that doesn't make them the same. Gonna let this go because I'm starting to sound too academic and I come here to NOT be an academic...

[fiveelementtao]

Fiveelementtao,

That's a good idea. What is your definition of what it is and what it does?

 

Hi Scotty,

That is rather long answer. In order to best answer that I would also have to talk what I was taught about the Chakras and their real significance and function. (The Chakras are not what most people think they are)

There was a previous thread where I laid out in at least a couple of pages what I was taught about kundalini and the chakras. It was thread where Santiago and myself were bantering back and forth on this exact subject. I went looking for the thread and couldn't find it.

In a nutshell, Kundalini is the personality of the individual created in human form. It is not the soul, God or the spirit. It is limited human perception. Without kundalini, no one could function as a human. So, when people are having a kundalini experience, they think they are experiencing God or enlightenment. This is an illusion of kundalini. It is their own ego. their own human personality. When people having a kundalini experience feel like they are worshiping the Infinite Spirit, they are really worshiping their own personality. It is illusion. In order to achieve enlightenment in yogic thought one must transcend the kundalini. The Personality (kundalini) matures as it moves up the spinal column moving through each chakra. This is a very long process and is not just something that can happen instantly. Yoga is very different from Tao in that Yoga is primarily about personal, psychological transformation. So, any real kundalini experiences even enlightenment-like experiences must be of a permanent nature. regardless of any feelings or vision experiences etc... It is meaningless if it not accompanied by permanent psychological change. This takes years of consistent yogic practice with a guru who can help navigate the psychological transformation.

So, even if people have very powerful energy experiences that "feel" like kundalini awakening, unless it is accompanied by permanent psychological maturation, then it is only a small portion of kundalini briefly moving through the different chakras and has no real significance. Many people mistake these experiences as the real thing and then get trapped in their ego thinking they have achieved enlightenement or full kundalini awakening. It is a false enlightnement.

 

Taoists do not use the chakra system because taoism is not primarily concerned with psychological transformation. (it is a part of it, but not the main focus.) Kundalini is about working through the self. Taoism is different... So, when people mix taoist and hindu energy practices, they are basically confusing the process because they are designed to do two completely different things. Energy is fun... But these sciences are not about energy experiences. If one gets caught up in the experience, the goal is never reached...

 

Anyway, I have already said too much. I don't want to naviagate this minefield again.

 

Bottom line for me is that I left kundalini based systems because it takes too long and I don't want to wrestle with the ego illusions of kundalini. Tao is a much better fit for me...

Anyway, that is my experience and what I was taught by tantric yoga. Others will no doubt have different experiences, opinions etc...

Edited December 6, 2009 by fiveelementtao

[Sunya]

whoever is interested in a Christian mystical pov I would first and foremost suggest the modern writer Jim Marion ; his book "Putting on the Mind of Christ" is incredible, as he was a Christian monk who had Kundalini experiences but went beyond that to seeing God everywhere as a completely non-dual state (the goal of Kundalini you could say), al though I hate to use the word "state" you can say he has full realization of the Absolute, which always is and always was, while also perceiving the relative level as well, i.e. through the human dualistic mode. He talked about Kundalini as subtle energies that purify the body of negativities and related the experiences to the Dark Night of the Soul, the K energy is cleaning you out so you experience your darkest fears and pent up anger, all those emotions deep in the unconscious comes forth to be cleansed. He recommends to simply surrender during this process and keep practicing.

 

though he doesn't mention how he specifically kept moving, which practices. probably just prayer. concentration is the necessity really... the object is all up to you. external (candle), or internal (breath, mantra, prayer).

 

concentration will awaken kundalini and concentration will get you through.

[markern]

whoever is interested in a Christian mystical pov I would first and foremost suggest the modern writer Jim Marion ; his book "Putting on the Mind of Christ" is incredible, as he was a Christian monk who had Kundalini experiences but went beyond that to seeing God everywhere as a completely non-dual state (the goal of Kundalini you could say), al though I hate to use the word "state" you can say he has full realization of the Absolute, which always is and always was, while also perceiving the relative level as well, i.e. through the human dualistic mode. He talked about Kundalini as subtle energies that purify the body of negativities and related the experiences to the Dark Night of the Soul, the K energy is cleaning you out so you experience your darkest fears and pent up anger, all those emotions deep in the unconscious comes forth to be cleansed. He recommends to simply surrender during this process and keep practicing.

 

though he doesn't mention how he specifically kept moving, which practices. probably just prayer. concentration is the necessity really... the object is all up to you. external (candle), or internal (breath, mantra, prayer).

 

concentration will awaken kundalini and concentration will get you through.

 

Hi Mikaelz! You lean to the Xabir/Thusness side of the discussions of No Selv vs Self don't you? How do you think the guy you mention fits into that scism?

 

I also find it interesting that he likens or connect kundalini and the Dark Night of the Soul since the Arising and Passing Away in Vipassana is acompanied by a lot of kundalini like experiences and is immediately foloowed by the Dark Night. To me it seems that this is quite a strong argument for the Arising and passing away and Kundalini awakening to be the same thing and thus bring you to the same place, in effect the dark night and then also close to high equanimity or what the name og the next stage in vipassana is. This is also very interesting because once the arising and passing away is crossed the basic level of enlightenment in the vipassana tradition, first path, is not that far away. Similar with Kundalini. Once awakened life is transformed but one does not get enlightened unless one after some time of struggle and purification manages to surrender ones ego which basicly would be what happens to get to first path but aquired through insight.

 

If these things are in fact the same then it offers some interesting perpsecitves. One is that there are many energetic techniques that help manage what comes after Kundalini a lot better. Grounding, the ability to circulate the energy, the ability to run cool energy, emotional purification up front (the secret smile etc.). THis would then mean that Vipassana people could derive a lot of benefit from incorporating some of those safety factors in order to manage the dark night fase. Another interesting aspect of this concerns the debate over emptiness meditation vs energy meditations. If the Arising and Passing away is a Kundalini awakening then emptiness meditation does lead to the most, or a lot of the most, central energetic transformations sought. If you read Glenn Morris' acount of what happened after Kundalini, it seems to offer a shitload of energybenefits taht surpass what most people would be able to cultivate with acitve energywork unless their Kundalini was awakened.

 

I thought I would chip in another thing as well. Dirk Al, a former Buddhist monk and also universal Tao instructor told me how he reached first path through budhist practices in a cave outside a monastary in THailand, then lost it again, which is quite common in the start, but got back to exactly the same place doing Mantak Chias Universal Tao system. His attainment was recognise by his teachers by the way and they should have numerous ways of checking like sensing his energy, seing his aura, asking him questions about exactly how things happened and how he sees things now etc. so I see little reason to doubt him especially since he seemed like an extreemly honest and straight forward guy. His expereince offers a very strong case for budhist and Taoist enlightenment experiences being essentially the same, at least at lower levels of enlightenment. Interestingly enough he also connects the Jhanas from budhism to the stages he went through in Mantak Chias, fusion and various Kan and Li stages which again says a lot about the similarities between the systems.

[C T]

In Phillip St. Romain's book, there is a section relating the experiences of Christian mystics to Kundalini. To respond to a previous post, and yours, I am going to have to say that St. Romain found his experiences to be somewhat consistent with those of Gopi Krishna.

 

The problem with the literature, according to St. Romain, is that Christian mystics just say what they experience. They don't call it Kundalini, Holy Spirit, or anything. In whatever language of the time of the writing they describe an experience. I remember reading some of those works back in college (before knowing the little I do know about kundalini) and thinking "what the hell are these people talking about?" There is not really anything in Christian literature about kundalini, as far as saying flat out "this is kundalini."

 

I even have material from a Christian mystic who passed away in the early 90's and he is very cryptic when it comes to Kundalini saying it is only for the advanced students.

 

I have heard Kundalini expressed as Holy Spirit. I don't like this description because Kundalini is from one tradition, Holy Spirit is from another. I agree with fiveelementtao in that I do not like crossing traditions. I do see a HUGE resemblance between Pentacostalism and Siddha yoga (not sure if this is the proper term... whatever form of yoga is all based on recieving shaktipats from a Guru). At the same time, I don't see all practices or all religions as being the same. There are some shared aspects that I believe help one to experience that which transcends the God (or Gods) of Religion, but that doesn't make them the same. Gonna let this go because I'm starting to sound too academic and I come here to NOT be an academic...

Amazing! They all just label it "an experience"? That's pretty cool to know.. Thanks a mil for the insight.

 

Btw, good post. Did not cross my mind that it was in any way academic.

 

Cheers!