Chinese Religious Stats

[Yoda]

41.5% non religious

27.5% traditional Chinese folk beliefs

8.5% Buddhist

8.4% Christian

8.2% Atheist

4.3% Animists

1.5% Muslim

0.05% Other

 

from National Geographic 5/08.

 

I'm guessing that the Atheist/non-religious stats for the USA would be coming up on around 20% by now.

[DalTheJigsaw123]

41.5% non religious

27.5% traditional Chinese folk beliefs

8.5% Buddhist

8.4% Christian

8.2% Atheist

4.3% Animists

1.5% Muslim

0.05% Other

 

from National Geographic 5/08.

 

I'm guessing that the Atheist/non-religious stats for the USA would be coming up on around 20% by now.

 

Interesting to be honest. Thanks for posting!

[Ninpo-me-this-ninjutsu-me-that]

41.5% non religious

27.5% traditional Chinese folk beliefs

8.5% Buddhist

8.4% Christian

8.2% Atheist

4.3% Animists

1.5% Muslim

0.05% Other

 

from National Geographic 5/08.

 

I'm guessing that the Atheist/non-religious stats for the USA would be coming up on around 20% by now.

 

Ya, very interesting. I'm surprised Buddhism has just pipped Christianity there.

 

What exactly does it quantify 'traditional Chinese folk beliefs' as though? That could just mean some people practicing Qigong, many old people in China do, but that's not the same as Daoism necessarily right? That phrase could be so wide. Did the article have any further explanation?

[immortal_sister]

in the USA, from a 2008 survey:

• no religion 15%
  
• atheist 1.6%
  
• christians 76% (25% catholics) down from 86% in early 90s
  
• jewish 1.2%
  
• eastern religions 0.9% (buddhists 0.5%)
  
• muslims 0.6%
  
• new religious movements & others 1.2% ??
  
• wouldn't answer 5%
  

 

from http://b27.cc.trincoll.edu/weblogs/America...Report_2008.pdf

[Yoda]

What exactly does it quantify 'traditional Chinese folk beliefs' as though?

 

I haven't the foggiest, but I'm assuming that it's a Taoist/Confucian/Buddhist/Shaman blend with Taoism being the primary ingredient.

 

It's interesting that China is a more secular country than the USA.

 

Tao Toe,

Kyle

[Apech]

You will see from here Census that according to the 2001 Census (last one) in the UK 0.7% were Jedi Knights ... beat that USA!

 

Also about 72% said they were Christian but less than 50% said they believed in God - explain that!

[Gerard]

41.5% non religious...

 

Obviously a legacy of Mao and his acolytes. That's the % that believe Qi and TCM are superstition.

[Zhuo Ming-Dao]

What are they considering to be animism for this study? How would animism not fit in with traditional Chinese folk beliefs? Are they insinuating shamanism? Because that should also fall under traditional folk beliefs. Such a strange distinction!

[Yoda]

Also about 72% said they were Christian but less than 50% said they believed in God - explain that!

 

I was raised in a Christian for social reasons family, so that makes sense to me.

[Zenshiite]

Obviously a legacy of Mao and his acolytes. That's the % that believe Qi and TCM are superstition.

 

 

You've also gotta wonder how much of that's actually true. How many people said that because it's the official party line and there's a certain fear of what might happen if it's found out what they really think/believe?

[Ninpo-me-this-ninjutsu-me-that]

I haven't the foggiest, but I'm assuming that it's a Taoist/Confucian/Buddhist/Shaman blend with Taoism being the primary ingredient.

 

Tao Toe,

Kyle

 

Actually Yoda, I'm a bit confused, I had assumed those stats were world wide, then I looked at Immortal Sisters and hers are for the U.S, were they world wide or U.S.A based?

 

 

You will see from here Census that according to the 2001 Census (last one) in the UK 0.7% were Jedi Knights ... beat that USA!

 

 

Ya, I put that down a long time ago in one census, I still haven't received my lightsaber in the post though! Bloody post office.

[Yoda]

You've also gotta wonder how much of that's actually true. How many people said that because it's the official party line and there's a certain fear of what might happen if it's found out what they really think/believe?

 

Interesting angle... maybe I can be corrected, but it's my understanding that there's not really any gov't antagonism towards religion anymore in China. Just that it is considered to be like Christmas and Santa Claus... not to be taken seriously but no fear mongering stuff anymore. The Sexy Beijing Christmas episode on youtube is where I got the idea that religion is just for entertainment in China now:

 

 

Ninpo-me-this-ninjutsu-me-that, the National Geographic stats I posted are for China.

 

Tao Toe,

Kyle

[Yoda]

According to the Religion in China wiki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_i ... te_note-21

 

Some estimates for Taoism as high as 400 million or about 30% of the total population,[22] but Adherents.com argues that these are actually numbers for Chinese folk religion or Chinese traditional religion, not Confucianism and Taoism themselves.[23]

 

 

 

I think there is a lot of disagreement as to what Taoism is so a lot of people like the National Geographic just don't use the term.

[Owledge]

What are they considering to be animism for this study? How would animism not fit in with traditional Chinese folk beliefs? Are they insinuating shamanism? Because that should also fall under traditional folk beliefs. Such a strange distinction!

Talking about strange distinctions: Why do they separate atheism and non-religious in that way? How can someone be non-religious, but not an atheist?! Theism is god-belief. They list atheism as if it was a religion! Even if someone is religious in a way that does not involve god-belief, calling that atheism would be incorrect, because it is unspecific.

 

I guess that's just the usual incapacity of the press to make a logical poll or statistic.

[immortal_sister]

i wanted to add a few thoughts to this thread.

 

first, in reply to hardyg. i don't know about china, but here in north america i wasn't surprised by the fact that atheism and non-religion were separate because i think there is indeed a big difference between the two. people that use the label atheism are often (not always) as attached to the concept of atheism and evolution as someone else might be about their religious beliefs. it may not be a religion, but it is a belief system. and on the other hand, many people simply don't have a stance either way, simply don't care about spirutual matters, or believe in some concept of god but would answer that they don't have a religion if asked for a survey. i have known many people like this.

 

in reply to yoga, regarding the statistical numbers in china. i would tend to believe as well that there is a good chance that people weren't entirely truthful about their beliefs because of the strong history of the chinese government's oppression. today still, people from falun gong are executed and oppressed because of their spiritual beliefs and practices. i have not been to china myself, and perhaps someone who lives there could correct me if i am wrong, but it is my impression that in a lot of china religion is still somewhat of a secret for many people. it is very unfortunate.

[Owledge]

...people that use the label atheism are often (not always) as attached to the concept of atheism and evolution as someone else might be about their religious beliefs. it may not be a religion, but it is a belief system....

I think this active, exclusive stance would turn atheism into antitheism. Furthermore, this extends the listed objects from religions to belief systems, and with this definition, there could be countless, with a lot of overlapping.

 

As I said ... not so many people are really qualified to make proper polls. For example, I consider a poll potentially manipulative if the exact questions that led to the results are not mentioned.

[immortal_sister]

yeah i agree. it is easy enough to have a poll say whatever you want it to say, based on the question that is asked and how it is worded. atheism and non-religion are pretty muddy waters.

[~jK~]

Yo da man,

China developed very differently from the west.

Gods are people that have done great things.

Philosophy takes the place of religion.

Buddhism says it is not a religion - a webpage explaining what it is: http://www.amtbweb.org/tchet113.htm

 

The major gods: Confucious (Confucianism = social rule), Lao Tzu (Taoism= perspectives, timing, seasons etc), Quan Yin(justice/mercy/motherhood), Buddha (meditation/mental health clinic), The Yellow Emperor (medicine, farming) etc are examples of assigning god status to people, that have lived, through their contributions to society.

 

I would not have come to China, nor remained as long as I have, if I thought it was same as South Carolina...

 

To see what takes the place of religion in China: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traditional_Chinese_holidays

 

Simply put, in China - if it works it is real - if it don't work it is fertilizer for the fields...

 

Belief structures are like manure - it don't stack too high.

Edited December 8, 2009 by ~jK~

[Zenshiite]

^I'm not sure it's entirely true that all "gods" in Chinese cosmology/metaphysics are people that did great things. For instance, Shang Ti is apparently the early Chinese(in particularly the Shang dynasty) analogue to the God of Abraham including an absence of depictions. By the Zhou dynasty Shang Ti became identified with Heaven/Tian generally and as Taoism grew he was "depersonalized." Mozi tended to use Tian as a personalized deity as one would say Shang Ti.

 

Ma Rong, an Eastern Han dynasty scholar, apparently claimed Shang Ti to be the personification of Tai Chi.

 

Here's a wiki entry Shangdi.

[~jK~]

^I'm not sure it's entirely true that all "gods" in Chinese cosmology/metaphysics are people that did great things. For instance, Shang Ti is apparently the early Chinese(in particularly the Shang dynasty) analogue to the God of Abraham including an absence of depictions. By the Zhou dynasty Shang Ti became identified with Heaven/Tian generally and as Taoism grew he was "depersonalized." Mozi tended to use Tian as a personalized deity as one would say Shang Ti.

 

Ma Rong, an Eastern Han dynasty scholar, apparently claimed Shang Ti to be the personification of Tai Chi.

 

Here's a wiki entry Shangdi.

Good find but from 3,600 years ago and still not a god - but rather a guard that watches over the acestors which is his anchor for the position whereupon: Shangdi is the holder, and thus the responsible personage, that bestows government authority --- in particular since he seems to have invented governing in China.... 3.600 years ago.

 

"Shangdi is believed to rule over natural and ancestral spirits, who act as His ministers. Shangdi is thought to be the Supreme Guide of both the natural order and the human order. The ruler of China in every Chinese dynasty would perform annual sacrificial rituals to Shangdi at the great Temple of Heaven in the imperial capital."

 

The main point I've been trying to make is that these that are elevated to high positions in China must be understood from the Chinese way of thinking - not the mythical, magical, all powerful, supernatural existance that is given to western religious figures such as seen in the Hebrew spinoffs of Christianity and Muslim belief style religions.

Edited December 8, 2009 by ~jK~

[Owledge]

The major gods: Confucious (Confucianism = social rule), Lao Tzu (Taoism= perspectives, timing, seasons etc), Quan Yin(justice/mercy/motherhood), Buddha (meditation/mental health clinic), The Yellow Emperor (medicine, farming) etc are examples of assigning god status to people, that have lived, through their contributions to society.

I have heard that Buddha's enlightenment is considered above godhood.

[Yoda]

I have heard that Buddha's enlightenment is considered above godhood.

 

A Taoists would disagree, of course!

 

It's my understanding that Taoism Gods are people who have done great things and that there are only miscellaneous exceptions to that... various folk traditions sometimes view such and such a god as the creator of the universe or something but those views have not permeated classical (in my view 'real') Taoism.

 

Tao Toe,

Kyle

[Owledge]

Yes, it was mentioned by a buddhist monk. As far as I remember, the distinction was roughly that a god has achieved great spiritual powers that make him a kind of higher being, while a buddha has completely dissolved any desire to use or have power, probably even dissolved more than that.

[Yoda]

The Five realms in Buddhism and Taoism are definitely different, that's for sure!!!

 

I just googled Shangdi and it appears that Shangdi is a Confucian god with mostly Confucian texts, scholars, and poets talking about him.

[goldisheavy]

Yes, it was mentioned by a buddhist monk. As far as I remember, the distinction was roughly that a god has achieved great spiritual powers that make him a kind of higher being, while a buddha has completely dissolved any desire to use or have power, probably even dissolved more than that.

 

You have to keep in mind though that in the Buddhist cosmology Brahma is just one of the sentient beings (he's the first and most powerful sentient being, but still just "one among many"). In other words, it's not what monotheistic doctrines regard as "God". Brahman, now that's closer to monotheistic God, and I've never heard of any Sutras where Buddha lectured Brahman.

 

That doesn't mean such Sutras don't exist though. But if they do exist, it just means Buddhists either don't understand what Brahman means, or just don't want to accept that meaning.

Edited December 8, 2009 by goldisheavy