Why is creativity considered a feminine trait when women don't create anything except babies?

[Stigweard]

As always these discussions on "how to become more manly" get bogged down with too much intellectualization and theories. The Daoist "way" is simple and natural. Look to nature, what is the primary external sources of Yin and Yang?

 

The sun and the moon.

 

This is why sun and moon breathing is a foundation practice. PM me if you want specific instruction.

 

[lino]

Men create and women just enjoy the fruits of men's labour. Everything you see in sight was created by men, not women. I don;t deny women are nurturers and all that but they are doing so from the safe nest that males create. Women are the most conservative creatures you can imagine and never dare taking risks instead just huddling within the confines of conformity. These are broad generalizations I know but that is all I wish to scrutinise- the general distribution of a given sample, not an exception such as a masculine lesbian. I really don't see how it could realistically be interpreted any other way.

 

If men hadn't discriminated against women for hundreds of years then men wouldn't have gotten to create shit.

[Birch]

This is fun!

Lots of guys talking about what women do. None of them asking any women what they actually do...

I'd almost bet that you don't actually want to know

[Encephalon]

We are lucky to have the few women that we do on this forum.

 

It's true. We are lucky. I have made passionate love with all of them and they are all fine ladies, indeed.

[Aetherous]

What's with the twisted humor that so many people have here? I like to joke around, but lately it's just disturbing.

[Birch]

It's true. We are lucky. I have made passionate love with all of them and they are all fine ladies, indeed.

 

What do you mean?

[Encephalon]

It's true. We are lucky. I have made passionate love with all of them and they are all fine ladies, indeed.

 

in 1988 I was living in an urban middle-class commune in Denver, working with a pediatrician, playing the piano, cooking, learning about relationships, getting in touch with my female side... ad nauseum...

 

...then my lover dropped her romantic ties with me and established them with another member of the household. Ouch! I moved up to 10,000 feet, worked half a ski season and then bolted for Seattle where I applied to all the Bering Sea fisheries offices. One week later I was in the Middle of the Aleutian Islands processing fish 18 hours a day.

 

Any male (or female, for that matter) who feels like they're soaking in yin energy -

pack yer shit. Apply online. Go process cod. Live on the ocean for three months. Come back with $$$. I promise you, you'll have plenty of yang to spare. You will have a tendency to preface every sentence with the words "fuck," fucking," or "fucked," so you'll hafta go through detox before having dinner at grandma's house but you'll be better for it.

 

I'm pretty sure there's still fish left in the Bering.

 

What do you mean?

 

My turn at a bad joke, I guess.

[Aetherous]

Uhhh, ok?

[Birch]

Blasto, I'm so sorry. I didn't know.

And no (for bystanders) I'm not being horrible. I've been betrayed myself and it was awful. It's sometimes hard to keep my heart open as a result.

[Encephalon]

Blasto, I'm so sorry. I didn't know.

And no (for bystanders) I'm not being horrible. I've been betrayed myself and it was awful. It's sometimes hard to keep my heart open as a result.

 

You've got nothing to apologize about. There is an ebb and flow in a human life regarding our sensitivity to tender subjects. I throw in a heavy dose of humor when I think a situation is getting too serious.

 

"It's sometimes hard to keep my heart open as a result." Yes, and you may feel like this for months, maybe years. You're entitled to your own healing pace. Be well.

[immortal_sister]

This is fun!

Lots of guys talking about what women do. None of them asking any women what they actually do...

I'd almost bet that you don't actually want to know

 

my thoughts exactly.

if the person starting this thread had actually wanted real information, let alone information from women (which is who he should be asking, if he doubts their ability to do anything except make babies) he would have expressed his thoughts in a much more thought out and respectful manner

[Apech]

in 1988 I was living in an urban middle-class commune in Denver, working with a pediatrician, playing the piano, cooking, learning about relationships, getting in touch with my female side... ad nauseum...

 

...then my lover dropped her romantic ties with me and established them with another member of the household. Ouch! I moved up to 10,000 feet, worked half a ski season and then bolted for Seattle where I applied to all the Bering Sea fisheries offices. One week later I was in the Middle of the Aleutian Islands processing fish 18 hours a day.

 

Any male (or female, for that matter) who feels like they're soaking in yin energy -

pack yer shit. Apply online. Go process cod. Live on the ocean for three months. Come back with $$$. I promise you, you'll have plenty of yang to spare. You will have a tendency to preface every sentence with the words "fuck," fucking," or "fucked," so you'll hafta go through detox before having dinner at grandma's house but you'll be better for it.

 

I'm pretty sure there's still fish left in the Bering.

 

 

To be frank Blasto - this story is about your own imbalance. You can't pretend to be in touch with your feminine side, you either are or you aren't.

 

Men who can't understand the value of women - and women who can't understand the value of men - are just betraying their own lack of balance/integration. As we are all 60/40% (or whatever percentage you would like to quote) then if you denigrate women/men you are dong this to part of yourself.

 

If you are doing cultivation then you have to learn to balance/mix and integrate yin/yang in yourself. This will make you stronger and more attractive as a person. Success at hitting on women - the polarised yang is just a game - those who report success are being used by the women concerned as much as they are using them.

[Encephalon]

my thoughts exactly.

if the person starting this thread had actually wanted real information, let alone information from women (which is who he should be asking, if he doubts their ability to do anything except make babies) he would have expressed his thoughts in a much more thought out and respectful manner

 

My wife-to-be (as of this Saturday!!) says there's an acronym in her forum called MUD - Made Up Drama. This could explain what Agape was really trying to accomplish, unless we are to conclude that his query is genuine, as whacked as it was.

[Birch]

"You've got nothing to apologize about."

 

I wasn't apologizing, I was showing you some care and compassion and feeling. Nuance.

 

Yes I guess a forum is a weird place to do it. Our lives are so much online that I reckon we ought to bring more feeling where there can sometimes seem to be none.

 

And you're right, we all have our paths through it all. Thank you for your kind words.

[Encephalon]

To be frank Blasto - this story is about your own imbalance. You can't pretend to be in touch with your feminine side, you either are or you aren't.

 

Men who can't understand the value of women - and women who can't understand the value of men - are just betraying their own lack of balance/integration. As we are all 60/40% (or whatever percentage you would like to quote) then if you denigrate women/men you are dong this to part of yourself.

 

If you are doing cultivation then you have to learn to balance/mix and integrate yin/yang in yourself. This will make you stronger and more attractive as a person. Success at hitting on women - the polarised yang is just a game - those who report success are being used by the women concerned as much as they are using them.

 

You're absolutely right about the first paragraph, alhtough you're attitude is a little presumptuous. This event occured more than 20 years ago. I was only 28 years old and wasn't pretending to be anything. I was in a very yin environment and enjoyed the benefits of the healing energy the experience afforded me. But there are times when everyone has to bust out and stretch their personal boundaries. I was talking about the value of leaping into an unfamiliar environment and testing your mettle. This does play into the process of balance and integration.

Edited December 7, 2009 by Blasto

[Wayfarer64]

Yeah the premise is spurious at best. I have owned art galleries in NYC and shown dozens of women artists. The other side of that question is more to the point tho- is creativity considered "feminine" - I do not believe it is. In general creativity is degraded in the USA. Artists are looked down on as un-needed...But I think NOT!

 

As noted here females can stand on there own 2 feet here more than most places on our globe...

 

Artists are not respected here as we are elsewhere. The same with women perhaps -there is a lack of respect for nurturing in general if that is nurturing art, music or babies -it is not as valued as gung-ho masculinity in our warped socuety...

 

If this thread is for real then the issue is important - if its just a shot - well so what?

 

love to all-Pat

[Encephalon]

Yeah the premise is spurious at best. I have owned art galleries in NYC and shown dozens of women artists. The other side of that question is more to the point tho- is creativity considered "feminine" - I do not believe it is. In general creativity is degraded in the USA. Artists are looked down on as un-needed...But I think NOT!

 

As noted here females can stand on there own 2 feet here more than most places on our globe...

 

Artists are not respected here as we are elsewhere. The same with women perhaps -there is a lack of respect for nurturing in general if that is nurturing art, music or babies -it is not as valued as gung-ho masculinity in our warped socuety...

 

If this thread is for real then the issue is important - if its just a shot - well so what?

 

love to all-Pat

 

A minor point I tried to make in my grad thesis - A Buddhist spin on consumerism - was that consumerism as it is practiced today, what some call "late-stage capitalism," essentially bleeds creativity out of the populace by saturating the environment with commercial messages that stoke our instinctual wiring at the expense of our creative faculties, keeping us in a state of consumer impotency. It's a subject that deserves all the attention it can get.

[Apech]

You're absolutely right about the first paragraph, alhtough you're attitude is a little presumptuous.

 

mea culpa

 

(its the middle of the night here - just the rantings of an insomniac )

[Encephalon]

mea culpa

 

(its the middle of the night here - just the rantings of an insomniac )

 

And it's 7pm here, and I've had way too much tea, which makes me way too short-fused!!

[Wayfarer64]

A minor point I tried to make in my grad thesis - A Buddhist spin on consumerism - was that consumerism as it is practiced today, what some call "late-stage capitalism," essentially bleeds creativity out of the populace by saturating the environment with commercial messages that stoke our instinctual wiring at the expense of our creative faculties, keeping us in a state of consumer impotency. It's a subject that deserves all the attention it can get.

 

 

I agree- If I understand yr point!- The commoditization of ALL art forms is worrisome to me. Corporate execs choose what we hear for the most part ... Different ones choose what gets bought for corporate walls or added to collections -once a great boon to artists... now that is rarer daty by day...

 

H. L MENKIN ONCE WROTE THAT -NO ONE EVER LOST MONEY UNDERESTIMATING THE TASTE OF THE AMERICAN PUBLIC !

 

 

MAN DID HE EVER GET THAT RIGHT!- sorry 'bout the caps!

Edited December 7, 2009 by Wayfarer64

[gendao]

Interesting generation gap here between the apologetic Baby Boomer men pandering and patronizing to feminist womyn...vs the young guys growing up now dealing with the aftermath of that - bad boy-loving girls gone wild.

 

What you have to understand is the entirely different breed of women each group is dealing with. The Old Rules simply do NOT apply to the New Girls. These are apples and oranges now - so New Rules have had to be devised.

 

I think young men are the most misunderstood group today. Because frankly, nobody cares about them or their place in society. Most social studies center around the well-being and progress of young girls. While young men are basically left demonized in the corner as "the problem."

 

I think this is an unfortunate oversight, especially when young men have been left to deal with the excesses of young girls created by their Baby Boomer dads. And they make easy targets for others to pick on who aren't in their shoes having to deal with the reality they're facing today. Hence, many are understandably dissatisfied, sexually-frustrated and joining a growing male pushback.

 

Thing is:

1) If an older guy throws younger guys under the bus - who cares? He's got nothing to lose, and even more to gain in approval from women. This is Yin controlling Greater Yang controlling Lesser Yang.

2) But if a guy dares to criticize women - uh oh, he might not get laid now! This is also Yin controlling Yang.

 

So, you can see why many guys stick with "safe" choice #1 here...purely out of self-interest, if nothing else. And without any real leverage anymore, what choice do men have?

 

Now, to go back to the original question - I do think men tend to be more inventive and creative, whereas women tend to be more intuitive and perceptive. That's why there is no female Jimi Hendrix, Nikola Tesla or Yoshiro Nakamats. OTOH, I also know girls who can hear plants talk or are ridiculously psychic. Something farrr less common amongst males. But, I respect both capabilities and the fact that any individual could still excel in any of them.

[Non]

Interesting generation gap here between the apologetic Baby Boomer men pandering and patronizing to feminist womyn...vs the young guys growing up now dealing with the aftermath of that - bad boy-loving girls gone wild.

 

What you have to understand is the entirely different breed of women each group is dealing with. The Old Rules simply do NOT apply to the New Girls. These are apples and oranges now - so New Rules have had to be devised.

 

I think young men are the most misunderstood group today. Because frankly, nobody cares about them or their place in society. Most social studies center around the well-being and progress of young girls. While young men are basically left demonized in the corner as "the problem."

 

I think this is an unfortunate oversight, especially when young men have been left to deal with the excesses of young girls created by their Baby Boomer dads. And they make easy targets for others to pick on who aren't in their shoes having to deal with the reality they're facing today. Hence, many are understandably dissatisfied, sexually-frustrated and joining a growing male pushback.

 

Thing is:

1) If an older guy throws younger guys under the bus - who cares? He's got nothing to lose, and even more to gain in approval from women. This is Yin controlling Greater Yang controlling Lesser Yang.

2) But if a guy dares to criticize women - uh oh, he might not get laid now! This is also Yin controlling Yang.

 

So, you can see why many guys stick with "safe" choice #1 here...purely out of self-interest, if nothing else. And without any real leverage anymore, what choice do men have?

 

Now, to go back to the original question - I do think men tend to be more inventive and creative, whereas women tend to be more intuitive and perceptive. That's why there is no female Jimi Hendrix, Nikola Tesla or Yoshiro Nakamats. OTOH, I also know girls who can hear plants talk or are ridiculously psychic. Something farrr less common amongst males. But, I respect both capabilities and the fact that any individual could still excel in any of them.

 

I think it's society and culture. Women could be just as creative if there wasn't such a conflict between males and females and if females didn't have to believe they are weak and the men are the strong. Society dictates biology which dictate male/female roles. Like I said... other animal species have females playing what would be the male role sometimes. So does it really have to do with "yin/yang" so much? I think categorizing things with the elements can sometimes hinder... things just are what they are. althought it can provide a framework for certain practices.

Edited December 7, 2009 by Non

[gendao]

I think it's society and culture. Women could be just as creative if there wasn't such a conflict between males and females.

I think it goes deeper than that.

 

I think the male ego evolved to impress females enough to get selected to mate with them. That's why the male animal is always more ornate in nature and often battle each other during rutting season. It comes down to proving their genes are superior enough to get passed down. This also extends to the drive for creative invention, etc.

 

So, if a male achieves greatness but at the end of the day still has no trophy female to show for it, he will still feel like an empty loser. And will be considered one by others, particularly females. Achieving greatness is usually just a means to the end of getting a great woman (or women) - and not REALLY an end in itself.

 

Again, the Old Rules were based upon the liberal ideology that everything is merely social construct.

Whereas, the New Rules are more scientifically-based upon evolutionary psychology.

 

Anyhow, you are still correct in that women as a whole could evolve to be more creative over time...if they had to (due to changing evolutionary pressures). But if they have no need to, then they probably won't. Nature doesn't waste energy fixing what isn't broke.

Edited December 7, 2009 by vortex

[Birch]

I don't believe I'm weak. I was told I was.

I was also told I'm nothing "without a man".

I was also told that I "should be dependent".

I was also told that "true love is filling a lack".

By myself I'm nothing.

Ah, the irony!

Sometimes I see that together we become nothing!

 

No wonder some of us are afraid. I don't want my life to end!

 

Cultivation for me is learning to be, shifting between being and nothing.

 

Love will tear us apart, again.

 

Awesome song by Joy Division;-)

[Non]

 

So, if a male achieves greatness but at the end of the day still has no trophy female to show for it, he will still feel like an empty loser. And will be considered one by others, particularly females.

 

 

I feel that way all the damn time. Somewhere I read.. that the holy grail is the vagina (althought I dont believe that). Somewhere I also read that... to please the heavens is to please a woman and vice versa. To do God's work is to please females, and vice versa. So if male does not have a woman, he has no place in society, no place in the universe, etc. He does not exist he is not in the book of life. That is if he's not just tryin to be virgin and be celibate.

 

Anyway...

 

I was reading about sexual selection....

 

there are two types of selection. intra sexual and intersexual. Intra has more to do with male to male competition for females (the NEVER ENDING VIOLENCE AGAINST HUMANITY, OUR OWN KIND WHICH WOMEN SEEM TO SUPPORT) and intersexual which is actually is just about being great, and not about just male to male competition or what is considered 'sexy' or not..

 

I feel people focus more on intrasexual, and so do women.. such that now it's all based on this...

 

I mean, really. Do you think people care about whether their relationship has any real purpose other than to satisfy themselves? Do they care whether it's good for the whole of the species? Do people still only care about quantity and not quality when it comes to sex and relationships?

 

Oh but sex is SIMPLY a materialistic thing according to many people.

Edited December 7, 2009 by Non