The Tao/Way/Power/Magic of Women

[Trixter Streetcat]

ok, this is an offshootof the "female creativity" thread.

 

I am actually VERY interested in what our lady posters have to say about the "Way" of women. As a male in my early twenties, I have no clue of what the female "power" or "magic" is all about. I simply know it exists.

 

I have often heard a few wise men, many wise women, and many girlfriends of mine refer to the "mysterious power" (mysterious to me, that is) that women "have" (be it over males or just in general). My mom once simply stated "you have no idea the power women have. women GIVE LIFE".

 

For instance, I am interested in what 5elementtao (i think it was him) said about women sensing and seeking "yang" power. What do women want? what do women seek? what (if anything) do they seek in return?

 

I will share some personal stories to start this thread.

I love women (i do -i find them much better company than males for a myriad of reasons). I am also very interested in gender differences, independently of whether it makes one or the other superior or inferior. I have never had a problem getting (usually long term) girlfriends, and they were always AWESOME women. often, women come to me when i am in a certain state of mind that I would simply describe as "happy" or "joyous" or something of the sort. I am not a PUA and would actually qualify myself as completely worthless in terms of "picking up" or "chatting up" chicks. My observation is that women seek affection (because it's the only thing I know how to give them, and it seems to work so far). But that doesn't get me very far because, who doesn't?

 

As a very androgynous male (so i'm told), I don't think women especially seek "masculinity", although I get the feeling that they do seek a certain "strength" (i've gotten dumped most of the times after awesome displays of character weakness). I am thinking particularly of my last ex, who in my opinion was a pretty high voltage woman. I'd say she was the yang of the relationship, although I'm quite clueless on yin-yang relations. The relationship went sour at some point, as I felt overcome and asphyxiated by this woman who was literally taking over my life. somewhere in that interplay of yin and yang, i wasn't "strong" enough. i think the alchemy works better when the voltages match, whatever that means loool.

 

I don't know. I actullally don't really know what I'm asking :-). I guess what I'd like to know (from female perspectives) is: what do you think makes the essence of a woman (tough question, I know)? the unresolved freud question, "what do women want?". How do you perceive your own power (over males or otherwise)? what do you think that power consists of? ("power" for lack of a better word that is). in a more "dark side of the moon" note, what power DO you feel you have over males?

 

I don't know, just ramble on ladies... but please spare us stuff about "self confidence", because like Ferraris, I wish it was simple as that. or is it?

 

thanks for replies, I know my question isn't very clear, but I am hoping to get interesting insights into the "other side", because as a male, I am completely in the dark about it.

[witch]

I should probably let some actual female taoists answer this, instead of jumping in with my very peculiar views. These views are very controversial and undoubtedly wrong, and will raise the ire of my fellow women.

 

Leaving taoism aside, which I don't know enough about to talk about intelligently, you are talking about two things when you talk about women's power--power over men, and magical power. The power over men women wield is based on attractiveness and coldness. Men want to give women their energy because they are hardwired to do it, and the hold over men young women have is the same power that a hungry baby holds over a mother whose breasts are achingly full of milk. This power isn't worth much, except over powerless men. Men who are powerful themselves almost always collect a harem of young beauties to take care of that need. And that's just biology.

 

Magical power in women I don't think comes to full maturation until a woman undergoes the brain changes that come with pregnancy. And I am convinced, and I am sure that women on this board will disagree, that to get a full measure of magical power, a woman must become easily even spontaneously vaginally orgasmic and have the energy generated from this very active sexuality travel up to her heart chakra and come out there. Such a woman is on the one hand powerless when it comes to her desire for a man's penis, but that fierce desire in itself ends up giving an intrinsic power over male sexuality.

 

That's my hypothesis about women's magical and sexual energy, from my own experience.

Edited December 7, 2009 by witch

[zazaza]

Many women don't understand when they notice a man that doesn't worship them.

Unlike many men, some men are actually not obsessed with sex.

 

Personally,

i find the whole "i want to be your girlfriend/boyfriend as long as you fullfill a, b and c"-scenario about typical relationships quite disturbing.

 

Besides, we don't need sex or relationships.

Freed from desire, you can see the hidden mystery.

By having desire, you can only see what is visibly real.

 

When the man does not want anything from the woman,

the woman doesn't have any power over the man.

 

 

 

The global financial elite exploit man's natural instinct to mate.

Make people obsessed with sex and relationships,

so they lose their inner bliss and power.

 

Weak and unhappy people are easier to fool,

and they consume more

Edited December 7, 2009 by zazaza

[NeiChuan]

Many women don't understand when they notice a man that doesn't worship them.

Unlike many men, some men are actually not obsessed with sex.

 

Personally,

i find the whole "i want to be your girlfriend/boyfriend as long as you fullfill a, b and c"-scenario about typical relationships quite disturbing.

 

Besides, we don't need sex or relationships.

When the man does not want anything from the woman,

the woman doesn't have any power over the man.

The global financial elite exploit man's natural instinct to mate.

Make people obsessed with sex and relationships,

so they lose their inner bliss and power.

 

Weak and unhappy people are easier to fool,

and they consume more

 

 

I really can't say it any better. Glad to have you on the forum

[Birch]

I guess what I'd like to know (from female perspectives) is:

 

-what do you think makes the essence of a woman (tough question, I know)? I really don't know to explain it but I know it when I see it.

 

- the unresolved freud question, "what do women want?". Depends on the woman.

 

- How do you perceive your own power (over males or otherwise)? Power over myself first. Then be good to others

 

- what do you think that power consists of? ("power" for lack of a better word that is). Something people give you

- in a more "dark side of the moon" note, what power DO you feel you have over males? If I turn "it" on they seem to get all weird. They don't otherwise. "It" is the thing I can't explain but I know when I 'm doing it. Being good to people probably.

[C T]

Lets see if i am able to get somewhere with this input..

 

I believe one of the key qualities that constitute what the OP calls the 'essence' of a 'real' woman is their willingness to be vulnerable. I think comparatively, women are less afraid of yielding, and it is this quality that enables most women to naturally possess traits like compassion, acceptance, and empathy, which can be quite lacking in men.

 

I think women intuitively understand that successful relationships are all about building bridges, not walls. For this to happen, a degree of vulnerability is needed. If one is afraid to be vulnerable, one is fearful of participation, which is so essential for any relationship to occur. And total participation requires absolute presence, which is another trait so lacking in men. Without presence (not only physical presence mind you) it is so frustratingly hard to form any kind of deep and nurturing relationship with anyone, even if its just with oneself for that matter.

 

For men to reconnect with their ability to open up themselves to a gratifying and stable relationship, i think a good start would be to first get in touch with accepting in themselves that it is okay to be vulnerable too. Men in general are so afraid of this. And one of the reasons they are so could be because deep down, they have been conditioned to ridicule this wonderful quality. I am sure we are all too familiar already as to the sources of where this conditioning would have been effected, but thats not the issue here.

 

You see, men think being vulnerable is a sissified thing. They mistakenly equate vulnerability with weakness. That its wrong to show women that they too have feelings, and can be hurt, and feel pain too. So in many many relationships, this becomes a stumbling hurdle that can be so difficult to be resolved.

 

You see, because men have this conditioned response to view vulnerability in such unfavorable light that when they actually get to know a woman better, they begin to see that same thing which they despise in themselves surfacing in their mate, they will sadly then begin to subconsciously despise the mate with equal intensity. Whats worse, a lot of men actually project their own hang-ups about vulnerability on to their partners, and in many of these instances, women get thrashed for it, physically, mentally, spiritually.

 

I think its so crucial for men who wants to begin a real relationship to first of all come to grips with accepting this aspect of their persona, and then use this acceptance as a bridge-building quality to reach out to one's partner, not in weakness, but as an empowering tool. This requires a great deal of honesty, strength, and clarity from oneself, and only 'real' men, i think, have the guts to open up on this.

 

These are by no means the only factors to be considered; They are however, quite fundamental. To conclude, i leave you with a couple of quotes from Leo Buscaglia:

 

"The most human thing we have to do in life is to learn to speak our honest convictions and

feelings and be mature enough to live with the consequences. This is the first requirement

of love, and it makes us vulnerable to those who may choose to ridicule us. But our

vulnerability is the only thing we can give to other people."

 

...

 

"Never idealize others. They will never be able to live up to your expectations. Do not

over-analyze your relationships. Stop playing games. A growing relationship can only be

nurtured by genuineness."

 

...

 

"When we cling to pain, we end up punishing ourselves."

 

...

 

 

 

 

Thanks for reading. All the best.

[markern]

Interesting topic. I am a man though but I will say this to the thread starter. Women tend to seek some form of confidence, strength, power etc. i men but when they get into a relationship with a man they still tend to always want to take control. If they get this control they get unhappy and disapointed with you and that might, as you seem to suspect, very well be why your girl left. I supose David Deida, as I remember it anyway, and most of the pUA community would say that this attempt at control in realtionships are like a test to feel the mans strength. She would not really feel that strength unless she challenged it somtimes and that is a large part of the reason why a women will often try to start running your life and setting the standards. Don't let her do it and you will both probably be much more happy.

 

It is interesting that almost all romance novels of the cheesy type you find in newspaper stores and airports etc. end with the woman having amed a wild and somewhat bad and uncontrollable man. We never get to read the next chapter though where she starts getting mysteriously annoyed without really understanding why. THat would then be because the man is now tamed and in relation to hear not strong anymore and not exciting either. That is why Deida emphasizes that for a man his life's purpose, his drive and mission must to some extent come before his relationship. Otherwise, you will easily end up living the unwritten follow up chapter to every romance novel ever written.

 

About women having a better ability to be vulnerable and all that. In the PUA community there is a term called DHV which means to demonstrate higher value. This is when the man tells a story, reveals a fact about his life or in some other way demonstrates desirable and status giving traits. Enough of these and his total social value increase to be larger than the value of her looks and then you have attraction. Juggler method, which is a style of PUA, never does that but only emphasizes DQs (disqualification) which is when the man says things that apparently would give him less value form the perspective of DHVs. This is done, however, with complete easy and total lack of fear of being judged by the women. Usually they are also done with humour. This can even include belittling the size of your own penis which one of the instructors tend to do.

 

The thing is that builds attraction as much or more then the DHVs. The reason is that they demonstrate value because of the confidence it requires to let those facts get out there with no fear and because you demonstrate more than you could do in any other way that you do not seek her approval at all. It is actually a very alpha trait if done right. I bring this up because it offers an interesting perspective on strength and weakness in relationships with women because I think the same principle applies in relationships later on as well. You can in many ways be quite weak and insecure as a man and still come of as strong in a relationship if you can carry those weak and insecure sides with comfort and a form of courage as opposed to being winy and directionless when it comes to them. So in a way if you can just "be yourself" with your insecurities in an unapologetic way you are still providing the strength and alpha qualities.

[witch]

PUA, PUA--you can tell those bozos that they are crazy to work so hard and bend themselves into pretzels all to chase after something that when they finally get it, they find worthless. Look at Tiger Woods--he's obviously gone through a string of "10" women and is never satisfied.

 

If you are going to do PUA tricks, for God's sake, use it to get the woman you really want! And if you can't figure out the woman you really want, instead of being a gaywad and just getting the woman that other men find pretty and flashing her on your arm, go off by yourself for a couple years with a Fleshlight, an Aneros, a jug of lube and your God-given imagination until you figure out what exactly it is that YOU like, not what porn and GQ tell you is the woman you are supposed to like.

[zazaza]

Another reason why porn is bad is because you place your focus outside yourself.

It would be better to masturbate with your focus on your whole body and perhaps the prostate too,

that would make sex a more empowering experience.

Edited December 8, 2009 by zazaza

[markern]

PUA, PUA--you can tell those bozos that they are crazy to work so hard and bend themselves into pretzels all to chase after something that when they finally get it, they find worthless. Look at Tiger Woods--he's obviously gone through a string of "10" women and is never satisfied.

 

If you are going to do PUA tricks, for God's sake, use it to get the woman you really want! And if you can't figure out the woman you really want, instead of being a gaywad and just getting the woman that other men find pretty and flashing her on your arm, go off by yourself for a couple years with a Fleshlight, an Aneros, a jug of lube and your God-given imagination until you figure out what exactly it is that YOU like, not what porn and GQ tell you is the woman you are supposed to like.

 

Jeezus witch, you really don"t know enough about what a lot of PUA guys actually do or how they think do you. I am the first to admit what you say is correct when it comes to a lot of guys in the PUA community and of a lot of the material but it certainly is not true of all, or most for that matter, or for all or most of the material either. Pietro, Mal and Plato "are" PUAs have used it to their benefit to quite an extent and have as far as I can tell used it very much for the positive and grown a lot in exclusively positive terms because of it and so have I. The same is true for quite a lot of guys on this forum and like minded spiritual men in general.

 

Actually a quite significant number of PUAs get into spiritual stuff because they start off just wanting to get laid, in the process understand that they need to work on self esteem, personal development and how they live their life and because of that start doing stuff like hypnosis and learning about posture from the feldenkrais method and through that open their eyes to other stuff that could be considered the next level such as meditation, yoga etc. Other routes for puas goes through pua material to David Deida to stuff like vipassana or daoism or from learning about "white tiger tantra" to getting interested in real tantra. Etc. etc. etc. Furthermore, finding the girl that YOU like and doing what YOU want is a huge focus for a lot of PUAs. So is finding healthy quality girls as opposed to your average cluber nutcase girl.

 

Now as mentioned this is far from true for everything to do with PUA, especially in the beginning of the PUA wave or of a persons entry into the community and not at all for a lot the teachers but it certainly is true for a large fraction. And if you take something like Juggler method, and a person such as him or his instructors and students all of the positives above apply. He was recently monogamously married for several years by the way (divorce can happen to anyone), is an extremely nice and down to earth guy. What he teaches if anything makes you act much more yourself than you did before you learnt any PUA stuff. Especially when you take into account the fact that most young men trying to pick up a women act nothing like themselves at all, act completely instrumental in their pursuit and manipulate as much as they can but just suck at it.

 

For a lot of men practicing PUA stuff a lot of it is about getting to where you are so good that it is easy for you to get the girl YOU want and to have the privilege girls have to be picky about when and under what circumstances they actually have sex. For a girl with 5 guys chasing her every night it is natural that she would choose to do sleep with a guy only when she is especially in the mood for it and when everything "feels right" and she really has the right connection. For most guys that is not an option.

 

Whenever you can get a girl you are really attracted to into bed you have to use the chance even though that particular night you are tired and not that much in the mood and there feels like there is nothing special about the situation and although you are really attracted to the girl physically and quite a lot on a personal level you really would prefer more of a connection before going to bed. If you don't use that chance you will likely not get it again and there will be a looooong time until you have a similar chance with another girl if you are anything like the average guy.

 

So you are always acting from a position of scarcity and so stuff like the right time and circumstance and when everything "feels right" is something you probably have never even thought about because if you did emphasize that you would get laid once every three years. Now some guys do still emphasize the situational factors I mentioned so much that if they are not in place they do not have sex. If these guys are averagely good at attracting women then they have sex maybe once a year at best but mostly less. If they are really good on the other hand they can have these factors and have as frequent sex as they want. Getting that good and acting from a position of choice not of scarcity is one of the benefits of pickup arts and very important to a lot of them.

[宁]

PUA, PUA--you can tell those bozos that they are crazy to work so hard and bend themselves into pretzels all to chase after something that when they finally get it, they find worthless. Look at Tiger Woods--he's obviously gone through a string of "10" women and is never satisfied.

 

If you are going to do PUA tricks, for God's sake, use it to get the woman you really want! And if you can't figure out the woman you really want, instead of being a gaywad and just getting the woman that other men find pretty and flashing her on your arm, go off by yourself for a couple years with a Fleshlight, an Aneros, a jug of lube and your God-given imagination until you figure out what exactly it is that YOU like, not what porn and GQ tell you is the woman you are supposed to like.

 

Bravo, bravissimo!

 

 

Many women don't understand when they notice a man that doesn't worship them.

Unlike many men, some men are actually not obsessed with sex.

 

Personally,

i find the whole "i want to be your girlfriend/boyfriend as long as you fullfill a, b and c"-scenario about typical relationships quite disturbing.

 

Besides, we don't need sex or relationships.

When the man does not want anything from the woman,

the woman doesn't have any power over the man.

The global financial elite exploit man's natural instinct to mate.

Make people obsessed with sex and relationships,

so they lose their inner bliss and power.

 

Weak and unhappy people are easier to fool,

and they consume more

 

 

that is very correct also!

 

 

Yet, we should not forget that Yin and Yang flourish only when they are around each other...

If you take away one of them, the magic stops.

[witch]

Other routes for puas goes through pua material to David Deida to stuff like vipassana or daoism or from learning about "white tiger tantra" to getting interested in real tantra. Etc. etc. etc. Furthermore, finding the girl that YOU like and doing what YOU want is a huge focus for a lot of PUAs. So is finding healthy quality girls as opposed to your average cluber nutcase girl.

 

 

Not sure you get my point.

 

First, fall in love. THEN use PUA to approach specific (as in one and only one) girl. Not like--love. PUA is only worth it when you are in love.

 

I know there are PUA taobums here. They give off that big-game hunter aroma.

[Enishi]

Not sure you get my point.

 

First, fall in love. THEN use PUA to approach specific (as in one and only one) girl. Not like--love. PUA is only worth it when you are in love.

 

I know there are PUA taobums here. They give off that big-game hunter aroma.

 

I've tried that before. I talked to girls and feel in love with them first, then tried to apply PUA. It didn't work, they weren't attracted and since I was already in love with them, I would come across as needy and couldn't apply PUA properly. It almost ripped my soul apart.

 

I don't plan to revert to being a big game one night stand hunter either, but in the future I plan to be much more discriminating in whom I let myself fall for. (ex. if I see they aren't interested after talking to them for a bit and a coffee break or two, move on)

Edited December 8, 2009 by Enishi

[Ninpo-me-this-ninjutsu-me-that]

 

They give off that big-game hunter aroma.

 

 

Ever so slightly politically incorrect literature from yesteryear..... for big game hunters and prey alike...... just kidding! Don't pelt rotten fruit at me quite yet.

 

 

When doubting your male or female role in modern society first ask yourself 'what would Mills and Boon' do?

[witch]

I've tried that before. I talked to girls and feel in love with them first, then tried to apply PUA. It didn't work, they weren't attracted and since I was already in love with them, I would come across as needy and couldn't apply PUA properly. It almost ripped my soul apart.

 

I don't plan to revert to being a big game one night stand hunter either, but in the future I plan to be much more discriminating in whom I let myself fall for. (ex. if I see they aren't interested after talking to them for a bit and a coffee break or two, move on)

 

Oh, I'm sorry. Well then PUA sucks.

[zazaza]

Yet, we should not forget that Yin and Yang flourish only when they are around each other...

If you take away one of them, the magic stops.

The yin and yang thing is probably true on the physical level.

If you want a healthy body, a healthy earth and all that.

 

i believe that the infinitely blissfull happiness

can't be found in any thing, place, person or experience tho,

i believe it can only be realized as oneself.

Edited December 9, 2009 by zazaza

[C T]

The yin and yang thing is probably true on the physical level.

If you want a healthy body, a healthy earth and all that.

 

i believe that the infinitely blissfull happiness

can't be found in any thing, place, person or experience tho,

i believe it can only be realized as oneself.

 

Well said. What's stopping us from realizing this then?

[Biff]

I should probably let some actual female taoists answer this, instead of jumping in with my very peculiar views.

 

Your views are not peculiar... You would get on well with Mystress Angelique. Do you know her at all?

Edited December 10, 2009 by Biff

[witch]

We've crossed paths in the past. Interesting. If I recall she's got a good grounding exercise.

 

I think I'd enjoy what she does, especially if it involved dressing up men in women's clothing.

[宁]

The yin and yang thing is probably true on the physical level.

If you want a healthy body, a healthy earth and all that.

 

i believe that the infinitely blissfull happiness

can't be found in any thing, place, person or experience tho,

i believe it can only be realized as oneself.

 

if we are ever to get beyond what we see,

 

we

should

see

the world

in all it's

complexity

...

 

in the search for a quick answer,

we tend to simplify too much,

and in that rush,

we get rid of the instruments that can help us get there

, meanwhile we search for something final

and worthy

...

 

i see this way too often

 

the Chinese are about yin and yang,

if you get what is about in the relationship btween man and the woman,

that is a MAJOR step...

 

mm?

[Enishi]

One thing I thought I'd point out is that the PUA industry doesn't really have a huge following outside the Anglosphere. The question which should be asked is...why?

 

Personally I think its because human interactions in the english speaking world are neurotic and fucked up in general.

[witch]

Because women outside the Anglosphere get enough omega-3 fatty acids in their diet so that they are interested in sex, and you don't have to be a safecracker to get into their panties.

[Enishi]

Because women outside the Anglosphere get enough omega-3 fatty acids in their diet so that they are interested in sex, and you don't have to be a safecracker to get into their panties.

 

ROFL!! Awesome comment, and very good point. You are now officially awesome in Enishi's book.

[Birch]

Because women outside the Anglosphere get enough omega-3 fatty acids in their diet so that they are interested in sex, and you don't have to be a safecracker to get into their panties.

 

 

See. NOW you're onto something;-) Add to that the cold mother, the absent father and the social rewards for intellectual rationalisation and striving and productivity and keeping your legs shut and you've got a woman who can't do anything except pray for her prince to come and rescue her.

[witch]

Also add hormonal birth control, antidepressants, and lots of caffeine and it's a wonder American women can orgasm at all.