Anti Aging - The China Study

[Non]

no, i do not know what the optimal diet for every human being is, nor was i implying that humans "need" meat. again, you are putting words in my mouth. for some, veganism may be optimal, for others a meat-based diet may be preferable (speaking only from a health perspective). this is what i have said from the beginning.

 

i am and will always be vegan or mostly vegan. right now i am maybe 90% vegan, and feel very healthy this way. i know that as things change in my life, i will probably go back to complete veganism. that's just me listening to my own body. i am not pushing these beliefs on anyone, just sharing my experience and trying to include some words of caution to those who may think that there are no potential shortcomings to the vegan diet.

 

Sure there are shortcomings. I've had them as well. For me it's been a kind of thing that takes Determination.

 

I also know that if I had to survive and veganism was not possible for me at a time of my life or during a certain situation, I'd gladly eat meat and consume animal products, for the time being. If I could also learn to not need to do that, I would.

 

It's alright immortal sister.. its just people make veganism out to be some impossible unrealistic, unnatural, and unfit thing to do, and in the process being offensive. I have much tolerance for people who eat meat, some just can't help it. Though a lot of meat eaters have no tolerance for vegans, to the point of being insulting and offensive.. and even misunderstanding. I try not to push my ideas on others, except for really defending the point I try to make that it isn't impossible, and doesn't make one 'unfit' unbalanced and even sometimes I have to state that it isn't 'unmanly, feminine' and 'weak, cowardly'.

Edited December 14, 2009 by Non

[C T]

 

i do think it matters where the nutrients come from. vitamins that come from a pill or from enriched foods are not the same as those we absorb when eating fresh whole foods. my main point in this this thread has been that to get all the nutrients that one truly needs from a vegan diet is not always as simple as some people make it sound, especially in more northern climates. for example, if you have to rely on pills & supplements to get all your essential nutrients then your diet is lacking.

 

diet should be simple, accessible, local, fresh, and whole. that's my personal belief.

And as a health-conscious Chef of 20 years, i'd say your last sentence is absolutely spot on!

[Non]

Yea it might not be entirely accessible for all people, but again that's an individual thing.

[immortal_sister]

Sure there are shortcomings. I've had them as well. For me it's been a kind of thing that takes Determination.

 

I also know that if I had to survive and veganism was not possible for me at a time of my life or during a certain situation, I'd gladly eat meat and consume animal products, for the time being. If I could also learn to not need to do that, I would.

 

It's alright immortal sister.. its just people make veganism out to be some impossible unrealistic, unnatural, and unfit thing to do, and in the process being offensive. I have much tolerance for people who eat meat, some just can't help it. Though a lot of meat eaters have no tolerance for vegans, to the point of being insulting and offensive.. and even misunderstanding. I try not to push my ideas on others, except for really defending the point I try to make that it isn't impossible, and doesn't make one 'unfit' unbalanced and even sometimes I have to state that it isn't 'unmanly, feminine' and 'weak, cowardly'.

 

i was completely vegan for 7 years so i understand perfectly how you feel. i have no reason to be offensive or disrespectful of other people's choices, especially vegans.

 

of course healthy veganism is not impossible. but it is very difficult for certain types of people (certain ages, certain body types, for example) and for people living in certain climates. veganism can without a doubt make someone imbalanced and unhealthy, but it doesn't mean that it always will. that's the bottom line. this is the only reason i even wrote anything in this thread to begin with, because too many vegans seem have it in their mind that veganism is infallible, which it is not. that's all i'm done!

[Non]

this is the only reason i even wrote anything in this thread to begin with, because too many vegans seem have it in their mind that veganism is infallible, which it is not. that's all i'm done!

 

I'm not saying it is infallible, though I'm also not saying that it can't be for some people.

Edited December 14, 2009 by Non

[Guest paul walter]

paul, how long have you been vegan? how old are you? and what climate do you live in?

 

hi i've been vegan for almost 19 years, i'm 42 and have lived in sub-tropical climate and mountain areas ( for about 9 years ,which get pretty cold though not snow-I always felt warm and invigorated-in fact I rarely had heating in winter and often went for walks in the freezing nights while everyone else I knew were sucking up to the fire(all meat eaters too ) On another post dealing with these issues some months ago I put up some info on raw diet and cold climates. It seems counter-intuitive but it shoudn't be a problem at all to be raw-food and living in snow, let alone cooked vegan. It's like cold bathing in ice water in freezing climates I suppose-actually boosts the micro-circulation and makes the heart and lots else way more efficient ( that and keeping active and breathing properly).

There are many 'mysteries' once one goes beyond western models of science and I don't pretend to know any of them but feel certain differences in my mind/body that others probably don't ( both 'good' and 'bad'). I am trying to follow the research that is just coming in about how longer term vegans and vegos assimilate, process, store, and generally make use of nutrients etc quite differently from the 'normal' diet eaters. Then we get on to bigu and such and we have to admit that we don't really know the half of a persons potential in terms of what is possible in terms of diet/nutrient assimilation. my number one rule for vegan is that the person must be completely grounded, then I think the symbiotics of that 'lifestyle' really come into play. Hope this helps...

[immortal_sister]

thanks for sharing paul

[Guest paul walter]

.

 

The main principle of a vegan diet is a diet that doesn't necessitate harm in gathering the energy and vitality we need. That's the principle I concern myself with the most, not just "plant foods". Remember vegans also eat fungi, and some still eat yeast, fermented food, microbiological organisms.

 

 

Not all vegans that eat mock meats are interested in them because they miss eating meat. They might also want to mimick it's desirable texture, convinient shape and qualities in certain recipes, flavor and smell similar to the meat like quality, etc.

 

I don't think you really see my point so I'm not going to continue this discussion.

 

 

Plants have reactions that exhibit 'consciousness' ('worry', 'fear', etc) too so you can't be complacent with the argument you have expressed.

 

Stay away from mock-meats, seriously, they're killers!!

 

I suppose people also have to try and remember that the numbers of people eating the SAD (Standard American Diet) are filling up the worlds hospitals/disease care markets with nutrition related imbalances and deficiences just like their vegan brothers and sisters (e.g. it's estimated that 50% of meat eaters are b12 deficient)--something usually overlooked in the tit-for tat of diet wars discusson. Its easy to pick on those with a 'different' diet when you have a vested interest in ignoring your own (thinking more of my family here and most other 'normals', not people on this thread).

 

PS I forgot to say originally that I think 'The China Study' research is mostly bunk. I don't think the conclusions they draw and that have been over-advertised by vegans can be inferred from the evidence they gathered and the methods used in gathering that evidence.. Paul

[Non]

Plants have reactions that exhibit 'consciousness' ('worry', 'fear', etc) too so you can't be complacent with the argument you have expressed.

 

Stay away from mock-meats, seriously, they're killers!!

 

I suppose people also have to try and remember that the numbers of people eating the SAD (Standard American Diet) are filling up the worlds hospitals/disease care markets with nutrition related imbalances and deficiences just like their vegan brothers and sisters (e.g. it's estimated that 50% of meat eaters are b12 deficient)--something usually overlooked in the tit-for tat of diet wars discusson. Its easy to pick on those with a 'different' diet when you have a vested interest in ignoring your own (thinking more of my family here and most other 'normals', not people on this thread).

 

PS I forgot to say originally that I think 'The China Study' research is mostly bunk. I don't think the conclusions they draw and that have been over-advertised by vegans can be inferred from the evidence they gathered and the methods used in gathering that evidence.. Paul

 

 

How would you know if plants really exhibit such emotions as worry and fear, when they're not even really universal? They do have nervous systems, but not like ours, or animals. They do evolve (without a nervous system they couldn't really right?) but how do we know if they exhibit such human like emotions as "worry" and "fear"?

 

And eh.. some mock meats are pretty good. Black bean burgers.. non soy tofu, gluten free seitan. It's just a darn other way of preparing food geez, there's nothing inherently wrong with it. It's just the common mainstream practices of processed foods that we are worried about here.

Edited December 14, 2009 by Non

[Guest paul walter]

How would you know if plants really exhibit such emotions as worry and fear, when they're not even really universal? They do have nervous systems, but not like ours, or animals. They do evolve (without a nervous system they couldn't really right?) but how do we know if they exhibit such human like emotions as "worry" and

And eh.. some mock meats are pretty good. Black bean burgers.. non soy tofu, gluten free seitan. It's just a darn other way of preparing food geez, there's nothing inherently wrong with it. It's just the common mainstream practices of processed foods that we are worried about here.

 

 

I was very careful NOT to use the term 'emotion' in the post for the same reasons you have pointed out.

 

As for mock-meats--you Americans got everything, the good and the bad . All I've ever seen are the endless Asian/Buddhist/English imports of TVP, soy protein isolate,textured soy protein, wheat gluten colon clogging analogs that are quite available in this country now. What's in the non-soy tofu and gluten free seitan products? To think this thread has come to this--two vegans exchanging words on mock-meats Stay well Paul

[Non]

I was very careful NOT to use the term 'emotion' in the post for the same reasons you have pointed out.

 

As for mock-meats--you Americans got everything, the good and the bad . All I've ever seen are the endless Asian/Buddhist/English imports of TVP, soy protein isolate,textured soy protein, wheat gluten colon clogging analogs that are quite available in this country now. What's in the non-soy tofu and gluten free seitan products? To think this thread has come to this--two vegans exchanging words on mock-meats Stay well Paul

 

heh... well I provided a couple links to some methods of making non soy tofu using chickpeas, field peas, pigeon peas, black eyed peas. Burmese tofu is made of chickpeas. Gluten free seitan is usually made from flours of of other beans and/or pulses. People can also probably extract the protein (as well as other nutrients) from the starches, discover new coagulants, etc. Of course it's a matter of what's safe and what's not.

 

Yea TVP and all that other soy protein and gluten stuff is blah. They came out with a new product called Peanut Tofu, and sprouted soybean tofu which has less of the isoflavones and antinutrient factors, though I've never tried it. They can also make Hempfu .

Edited December 14, 2009 by Non

[~jK~]

I'm a 37 y.o. going to 38 soon and I am a convinced 5 elements (taoist) nutrition adept but I kind'a noticed some aging signs like wrinkles, white hair from several years ago, dryness of the skin...etc. Normally I don' show my age, I mean there were girls who were guessing I was 28 or 30, but still I am beginning to show signs of ageing and I will reach 40 soon, so I was wondering if I should consider the vegan diet as advertised

 

Yesterday I just shoveled the snow arround my car, so I am not complaining of physical exercise and this is just the begining of the winter here

 

Interesting in that most are quoting from the FDA advertisements.

 

The guiding light of my conceptions about the FDA is the point that USA has 5 times the number of prisoners of any other nation on earth. This number is a mathematical red light pointing to a preditor nation which is further confirmed from the actions of USA's Military Industrial Complex as well as recent events in banking, War as a buisness of USA - etc.

 

Military-Industrial Complex Speech, Dwight D. Eisenhower, 1961

http://coursesa.matrix.msu.edu/~hst306/documents/indust.html

 

As such I use these above notations to guide my research.

 

People that live long drain revenue from the USA - so 60 to 65 would seem to be the desired age for death of a person in USA.

 

Eating vegies is good but ... what is the system within the vegetables that produces vitamins and minerals ?

To the best of my knowledge there is not one. Here is the search I used:

http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&...als&spell=1

 

So - with the vegies as well as potatoes etc - as far as vitamins, enzymes - what we are getting is either what is in the soil or in the fertilizer...

Since Vitamins & minerals are not self generating - tain't none.

Cows and Sheep get much-much more than we.

 

So - I learned how to grow my own as well as where to find them.

A mega website: http://www.rawfoods.com/

http://www.rawfoods.com/articles/enzymes.html

http://www.rawfoods.com/articles/rawvscooked.html

http://www.living-foods.com/articles/sproutedseeds.html

 

Here are the requirements:

http://ezinearticles.com/?Anti-Aging-Vitam...?&id=596515

 

From personal experience:

Most of the people that die in a hospital are old & die of a disease they caught in the hospital.

If they die in the hospital - the Hospital gets a large sum for trying to keep them alive.

If they die at home...

The disease that causes death is often - pneumonia.

Pneumonia is directly related to a lack of enzymes in the Pancreas.

To learn about enzymes see the above Rawfods.com websites.

A friend of mine that had a genetic form of AIDS was told by his doctor ( they experimented on him a lot & the doctors doing it were world class ) was told that each time he got sick - one year was taken off his life span. He lived to 35 and got sick on average of 2 times a year. Enzymes were part of his treatment.

 

A process that I developed to extract maximum amount of Enzymes from organic 'Mung' seeds.

The Theory:

 

I cannot say what your results will be - but I've used this process for about 10 years in Hong Kong. To date, I have only had the sniffles once during that 10 year time. Most of my friends are teachers and are daily exposed to the diseases of the most crowded city (Mong KoK) on earth. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mong_Kok

 

Making an enzyme rich juice that helps to rebuild our immune system through replacing the enzyme depleation of the Pancreas.

 

Our society is an almost 100% cooked food society.

 

Temperatures above 105 F' destroy enzymes

For millions of years we have eaten food raw.

Cooking foods destroys the enzymes.

 

Our body does not manufacture enzymes.

 

We must get them in our food.

 

The # 1 rule is no heat above 100'F (55' C)

The # 2 rule is Be careful eating the beans like a salad as an unsprouted bean can break a tooth...

 

The process:

 

Using Mung Beans

 

Making a juice extract by sprouting (1/4 to 1/2 of a cup) of the seeds so that they have a root emerging no more than 1/8 inch. It takes about 24 hours to sprout the seeds in the summer.

 

The process:

I cover them in tap water for about 4 hours & then pour the water away, let them dry for a few hours & cover them with tap water again and repeat the process untill they sprout.untill they have a root emerging no more than 1/8 inch.

 

Then put them in a blender with about 3 times as much cold distilled water as seeds.

 

Blend them with the cold water so that the seeds become like a powder and the water becomes green.

 

Strain the blended seeds & water through a stainless steel wire type filtering seive that you can find at grocery stores & drink the juice while it is fresh.

 

Throw away the grounds.

 

To build up your enzyme bank in your pancreas, you will need to do this every 2 or 3 days for a month or 2. Then about once a week. Even if I begin feeling a little sick, if I drink the juice, the illness does not develop.

 

I keep some of the semi sprouted beans in the refridgerator most of the time & snack on them - but the juice extract is what really works. Be careful eating the beans like a salad as an unsprouted bean can break a tooth...

 

The juice also acts as a catalyst for the endocrine system to bring hormones into balance.

Edited December 14, 2009 by ~jK~

[nac]

[Non]

Interesting in that most are quoting from the FDA advertisements.

 

The guiding light of my conceptions about the FDA is the point that USA has 5 times the number of prisoners of any other nation on earth. This number is a mathematical red light pointing to a preditor nation which is further confirmed from the actions of USA's Military Industrial Complex as well as recent events in banking, War as a buisness of USA - etc.

 

Military-Industrial Complex Speech, Dwight D. Eisenhower, 1961

http://coursesa.matrix.msu.edu/~hst306/documents/indust.html

 

As such I use these above notations to guide my research.

 

People that live long drain revenue from the USA - so 60 to 65 would seem to be the desired age for death of a person in USA.

 

Eating vegies is good but ... what is the system within the vegetables that produces vitamins and minerals ?

To the best of my knowledge there is not one. Here is the search I used:

http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&...als&spell=1

 

So - with the vegies as well as potatoes etc - as far as vitamins, enzymes - what we are getting is either what is in the soil or in the fertilizer...

Since Vitamins & minerals are not self generating - tain't none.

Cows and Sheep get much-much more than we.

 

So - I learned how to grow my own as well as where to find them.

A mega website: http://www.rawfoods.com/

http://www.rawfoods.com/articles/enzymes.html

http://www.rawfoods.com/articles/rawvscooked.html

http://www.living-foods.com/articles/sproutedseeds.html

 

Here are the requirements:

http://ezinearticles.com/?Anti-Aging-Vitam...?&id=596515

 

From personal experience:

Most of the people that die in a hospital are old & die of a disease they caught in the hospital.

If they die in the hospital - the Hospital gets a large sum for trying to keep them alive.

If they die at home...

The disease that causes death is often - pneumonia.

Pneumonia is directly related to a lack of enzymes in the Pancreas.

To learn about enzymes see the above Rawfods.com websites.

A friend of mine that had a genetic form of AIDS was told by his doctor ( they experimented on him a lot & the doctors doing it were world class ) was told that each time he got sick - one year was taken off his life span. He lived to 35 and got sick on average of 2 times a year. Enzymes were part of his treatment.

 

A process that I developed to extract maximum amount of Enzymes from organic 'Mung' seeds.

The Theory:

 

I cannot say what your results will be - but I've used this process for about 10 years in Hong Kong. To date, I have only had the sniffles once during that 10 year time. Most of my friends are teachers and are daily exposed to the diseases of the most crowded city (Mong KoK) on earth. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mong_Kok

 

Making an enzyme rich juice that helps to rebuild our immune system through replacing the enzyme depleation of the Pancreas.

 

Our society is an almost 100% cooked food society.

 

Temperatures above 105 F' destroy enzymes

For millions of years we have eaten food raw.

Cooking foods destroys the enzymes.

 

Our body does not manufacture enzymes.

 

We must get them in our food.

 

The # 1 rule is no heat above 100'F (55' C)

The # 2 rule is Be careful eating the beans like a salad as an unsprouted bean can break a tooth...

 

The process:

 

Using Mung Beans

 

Making a juice extract by sprouting (1/4 to 1/2 of a cup) of the seeds so that they have a root emerging no more than 1/8 inch. It takes about 24 hours to sprout the seeds in the summer.

 

The process:

I cover them in tap water for about 4 hours & then pour the water away, let them dry for a few hours & cover them with tap water again and repeat the process untill they sprout.untill they have a root emerging no more than 1/8 inch.

 

Then put them in a blender with about 3 times as much cold distilled water as seeds.

 

Blend them with the cold water so that the seeds become like a powder and the water becomes green.

 

Strain the blended seeds & water through a stainless steel wire type filtering seive that you can find at grocery stores & drink the juice while it is fresh.

 

Throw away the grounds.

 

To build up your enzyme bank in your pancreas, you will need to do this every 2 or 3 days for a month or 2. Then about once a week. Even if I begin feeling a little sick, if I drink the juice, the illness does not develop.

 

I keep some of the semi sprouted beans in the refridgerator most of the time & snack on them - but the juice extract is what really works. Be careful eating the beans like a salad as an unsprouted bean can break a tooth...

 

The juice also acts as a catalyst for the endocrine system to bring hormones into balance.

 

semi sprouted mung beans are awesome!

[~jK~]

semi sprouted mung beans are awesome!

Happy that you noticed - one of 'Non'

The extract process is what makes them truly Awesomefullyextentiotionitious !

 

The extract process is a key to a door.

[Non]

nice. you know enzymes are protein.. I wonder if those are counted in the nutritional data of food. They should be.

 

Also... one thing I've read about plant enzymes: just because a plant has its own enzymes it doesnt mean that all of them would be useful in the human body. So some enzymes might break down in the body, while the useful ones assimilated.

 

I didn't even catch that mung bean juice extract.... it sounds similar to rejuvelac which uses grains instead of beans.

 

One can probably even try this with the most yang of all beans which also nourish the kidneys, the adzuki bean.

 

Interesting in that most are quoting from the FDA advertisements.

 

The guiding light of my conceptions about the FDA is the point that USA has 5 times the number of prisoners of any other nation on earth. This number is a mathematical red light pointing to a preditor nation which is further confirmed from the actions of USA's Military Industrial Complex as well as recent events in banking, War as a buisness of USA - etc.

 

Military-Industrial Complex Speech, Dwight D. Eisenhower, 1961

http://coursesa.matrix.msu.edu/~hst306/documents/indust.html

 

As such I use these above notations to guide my research.

 

People that live long drain revenue from the USA - so 60 to 65 would seem to be the desired age for death of a person in USA.

 

Eating vegies is good but ... what is the system within the vegetables that produces vitamins and minerals ?

To the best of my knowledge there is not one. Here is the search I used:

http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&...als&spell=1

 

So - with the vegies as well as potatoes etc - as far as vitamins, enzymes - what we are getting is either what is in the soil or in the fertilizer...

Since Vitamins & minerals are not self generating - tain't none.

Cows and Sheep get much-much more than we.

 

So - I learned how to grow my own as well as where to find them.

A mega website: http://www.rawfoods.com/

http://www.rawfoods.com/articles/enzymes.html

http://www.rawfoods.com/articles/rawvscooked.html

http://www.living-foods.com/articles/sproutedseeds.html

 

Here are the requirements:

http://ezinearticles.com/?Anti-Aging-Vitam...?&id=596515

 

From personal experience:

Most of the people that die in a hospital are old & die of a disease they caught in the hospital.

If they die in the hospital - the Hospital gets a large sum for trying to keep them alive.

If they die at home...

The disease that causes death is often - pneumonia.

Pneumonia is directly related to a lack of enzymes in the Pancreas.

To learn about enzymes see the above Rawfods.com websites.

A friend of mine that had a genetic form of AIDS was told by his doctor ( they experimented on him a lot & the doctors doing it were world class ) was told that each time he got sick - one year was taken off his life span. He lived to 35 and got sick on average of 2 times a year. Enzymes were part of his treatment.

 

A process that I developed to extract maximum amount of Enzymes from organic 'Mung' seeds.

The Theory:

 

I cannot say what your results will be - but I've used this process for about 10 years in Hong Kong. To date, I have only had the sniffles once during that 10 year time. Most of my friends are teachers and are daily exposed to the diseases of the most crowded city (Mong KoK) on earth. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mong_Kok

 

Making an enzyme rich juice that helps to rebuild our immune system through replacing the enzyme depleation of the Pancreas.

 

Our society is an almost 100% cooked food society.

 

Temperatures above 105 F' destroy enzymes

For millions of years we have eaten food raw.

Cooking foods destroys the enzymes.

 

Our body does not manufacture enzymes.

 

We must get them in our food.

 

The # 1 rule is no heat above 100'F (55' C)

The # 2 rule is Be careful eating the beans like a salad as an unsprouted bean can break a tooth...

 

The process:

 

Using Mung Beans

 

Making a juice extract by sprouting (1/4 to 1/2 of a cup) of the seeds so that they have a root emerging no more than 1/8 inch. It takes about 24 hours to sprout the seeds in the summer.

 

The process:

I cover them in tap water for about 4 hours & then pour the water away, let them dry for a few hours & cover them with tap water again and repeat the process untill they sprout.untill they have a root emerging no more than 1/8 inch.

 

Then put them in a blender with about 3 times as much cold distilled water as seeds.

 

Blend them with the cold water so that the seeds become like a powder and the water becomes green.

 

Strain the blended seeds & water through a stainless steel wire type filtering seive that you can find at grocery stores & drink the juice while it is fresh.

 

Throw away the grounds.

 

To build up your enzyme bank in your pancreas, you will need to do this every 2 or 3 days for a month or 2. Then about once a week. Even if I begin feeling a little sick, if I drink the juice, the illness does not develop.

 

I keep some of the semi sprouted beans in the refridgerator most of the time & snack on them - but the juice extract is what really works. Be careful eating the beans like a salad as an unsprouted bean can break a tooth...

 

The juice also acts as a catalyst for the endocrine system to bring hormones into balance.

 

hah, u know what... there have been some supposed studies in the hispanic world about the "enzyme powerhouse" that are canarygrass seeds. According to the "news"... a glass of canarygrass seed milk contains "more protein in the form of enzymes than 2-3 kilos of steak..." if I translated that correctly.

 

I also wouldn't throw away the mung bean grounds.. I could probably make a good raw bean paste out of that just like people can make raw hummus. It's also high protein.

Edited December 14, 2009 by Non

[Andrei]

Thank you all, good infos.

Nice recipe JK, I will try it, I already made soups of all the beans I could find (all colors lentils, azuki beans, mung beans, peas etc.), I will try to make sprouts of them and the juices, thanks.

 

Also five tibetan rites are best on the winter time, I wish I would heard about them a long time ago...

[~jK~]

Thank you all, good infos.

Nice recipe JK, I will try it, I already made soups of all the beans I could find (all colors lentils, azuki beans, mung beans, peas etc.), I will try to make sprouts of them and the juices, thanks.

 

Also five tibetan rites are best on the winter time, I wish I would heard about them a long time ago...

 

I guess I should fill in a few more details...

 

The extraction process is a key to the door. - it concentrates tremendously while diluting for your insides.

Another key is to do them twice a week for the first month or two. I did 3 months.

Then about once a week for another month.

As an enzyme, - it is also a catalyst for your other systemic needs. A catalyst can be very - very powerful as it is an activator of other chemical processes.

 

Once sprouted to a 1/8 to 1/16 inch root - you can put them, covered in cool water, in the cool but not frozen part of the refridgerator and they keep for up to 10 days with no real change from original condition.

 

I have drank the covering water after a few days with no problem but there is a chemical that is released by the roots of any plant (including carrots, onions, potatoes, etc) with the technicaly abreviated name of DMSO (Dimethyl sulfoxide) that you may be interested in. It is the digestive juices of the plants root system.

I experimented with DMSO some years ago and found no strange effects from it.

This one is more simply written http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimethyl_sulfoxide

This one wanders into technical terms but - as it is by the person that discovered the chemical and is much more informative: http://www.dmso.org/articles/information/muir.htm

 

On the mung bean grounds.. NoN wrote: "I could probably make a good raw bean paste out of that just like people can make raw hummus. It's also high protein."

Enzymes are much more than proteins... put a little of the mung bean grounds on your skin for a few minuites... I've eaten them but they are a bit too strong in flavor for me.

Edited December 15, 2009 by ~jK~

[agharta]

paul, how long have you been vegan? how old are you? and what climate do you live in?

hi i've been vegan for almost 19 years, i'm 42 and have lived in sub-tropical climate and mountain areas ( for about 9 years ,which get pretty cold though not snow-I always felt warm and invigorated-in fact I rarely had heating in winter and often went for walks in the freezing nights while everyone else I knew were sucking up to the fire(all meat eaters too ) On another post dealing with these issues some months ago I put up some info on raw diet and cold climates. It seems counter-intuitive but it shoudn't be a problem at all to be raw-food and living in snow, let alone cooked vegan. It's like cold bathing in ice water in freezing climates I suppose-actually boosts the micro-circulation and makes the heart and lots else way more efficient ( that and keeping active and breathing properly).

There are many 'mysteries' once one goes beyond western models of science and I don't pretend to know any of them but feel certain differences in my mind/body that others probably don't ( both 'good' and 'bad'). I am trying to follow the research that is just coming in about how longer term vegans and vegos assimilate, process, store, and generally make use of nutrients etc quite differently from the 'normal' diet eaters. Then we get on to bigu and such and we have to admit that we don't really know the half of a persons potential in terms of what is possible in terms of diet/nutrient assimilation. my number one rule for vegan is that the person must be completely grounded, then I think the symbiotics of that 'lifestyle' really come into play. Hope this helps...

 

I am quite certain that there are a few people capable of living very healthily on a vegan diet, long-term, because they have had the right combination of training, environment, and genetic gifts. The vast majority of people, though, who think they are doing just fine on a vegan diet are not, though. They are setting themselves up for some serious neurological problems, long-term. You run the risk of doing harm by talking about veganism as though just anyone, living anywhere, with any constitution, can do it easily and healthily. Enough people delude themselves without your help. Either change your tune to more accurately reflect how difficult it is to have good neurological health on a vegan diet, long-term, or please stop talking. I'm begging you.

[immortal_sister]

i think paul's post was fair and balanced. i think it is important to emphasize the point he made about how someone needs to be truly grounded for the vegan diet to work really well (for most people). most people are far form grounded to begin with, some grounding foods like animal proteins help them stay somewhat grounded. i know that living in a major city as a vegan i felt totally ungrounded, and then switching to living in the country made a huge difference for me. my energetics were different and i felt a completely different connection to my environment, my food, etc etc. because of this, i think i processed the food i ate differently as well. yet for me, i don't think it was sufficient for me to feel as healthy as i could eating a purely vegan diet. which is why i have been modifying my diet for the last two years. it is still a work in progress, but the basis i always at least 90% vegan.

[Guest paul walter]

I am quite certain that there are a few people capable of living very healthily on a vegan diet, long-term, because they have had the right combination of training, environment, and genetic gifts. The vast majority of people, though, who think they are doing just fine on a vegan diet are not, though. They are setting themselves up for some serious neurological problems, long-term. You run the risk of doing harm by talking about veganism as though just anyone, living anywhere, with any constitution, can do it easily and healthily. Enough people delude themselves without your help. Either change your tune to more accurately reflect how difficult it is to have good neurological health on a vegan diet, long-term, or please stop talking. I'm begging you.

 

 

Agharta, I was only replying to Immortal Sisters post, not soap boxing. I take your point and please remember that i agreed with most all of your 'concerns' earlier in the year about the potential dangers of uninformed vegan diets on several other threads (what's with the turn around in thinking now that some people CAN actually survive a vegan regime ). If people are interested they should check out the info on the potential dangers of being vegan discussed on previous threads. Disclaimer: Whenever I am talking about the vegan diet, unless I am referring to research or other stated such things I am talking about myself,my expriences and my theories, signed Paul.

ps. I still haven't got an answer as to how come I'm not dead from being vegan (based on science posted earlier about how a human would be dead within months without animal 'products' since their physiology and bio-chemistry are ill suited to sheep food). Ok, let's call a truce. Paul.

[Guest paul walter]

i think paul's post was fair and balanced. i think it is important to emphasize the point he made about how someone needs to be truly grounded for the vegan diet to work really well (for most people). most people are far form grounded to begin with, some grounding foods like animal proteins help them stay somewhat grounded. i know that living in a major city as a vegan i felt totally ungrounded, and then switching to living in the country made a huge difference for me. my energetics were different and i felt a completely different connection to my environment, my food, etc etc. because of this, i think i processed the food i ate differently as well. yet for me, i don't think it was sufficient for me to feel as healthy as i could eating a purely vegan diet. which is why i have been modifying my diet for the last two years. it is still a work in progress, but the basis i always at least 90% vegan.

 

 

 

I couldn't emphasise this point enough, nor could I talk about it in a proper scientific manne, let alone an impersonal one....

Harvesting wild foods and growing your own food in soil is also one of the most life-grounding things I would recommend to anyone. The stomach and spleen of most people in cities (let alone other places) would be seriously out of balance through worry/stress and perhaps explains the diets most people eat--lots of food, comfort food (sugars/fats) etc. When these organs are out you are going to get poor assimilation, impulsive food choice and the rest of it, even malnourishment which is quite widespread in 'our' cultures due to poor nutrient content of soil, food stored too long, poor digestion/absorption etc. This is one reason people overeat, especially those on junk diets.

Immortal Sister, check out Agharta's rawpaleo site--if you want to optimise your diet make sure you consider wild game,raw and organic foods. Though with raw you have to be carefull not to put out your 'digestive fire' (to coin a TCM term) by cooling your stomach/spleen and doing damage to yourself. Many people can't eat raw foods because of the damage done to their organs from lifestyle/illness/eating cooked foods all their life. I'm all for raw foods but can't do it myself at the moment unfortunately. Paul

[immortal_sister]

I couldn't emphasise this point enough, nor could I talk about it in a proper scientific manne, let alone an impersonal one....

Harvesting wild foods and growing your own food in soil is also one of the most life-grounding things I would recommend to anyone. The stomach and spleen of most people in cities (let alone other places) would be seriously out of balance through worry/stress and perhaps explains the diets most people eat--lots of food, comfort food (sugars/fats) etc. When these organs are out you are going to get poor assimilation, impulsive food choice and the rest of it, even malnourishment which is quite widespread in 'our' cultures due to poor nutrient content of soil, food stored too long, poor digestion/absorption etc. This is one reason people overeat, especially those on junk diets.

Immortal Sister, check out Agharta's rawpaleo site--if you want to optimise your diet make sure you consider wild game,raw and organic foods. Though with raw you have to be carefull not to put out your 'digestive fire' (to coin a TCM term) by cooling your stomach/spleen and doing damage to yourself. Many people can't eat raw foods because of the damage done to their organs from lifestyle/illness/eating cooked foods all their life. I'm all for raw foods but can't do it myself at the moment unfortunately. Paul

 

harvesting wild food i think is essential for someone who wants to be truly vegan and healthy that way. it it such a lost art though, its unfortunate. we try to teach people in our area about edible wild foods and wild medicine as much as possible.

 

i eat a lot of wild food, and my diet is probably 98% organic i talked about it in my first post.

i pick a lot of wild food, things no on else in this region eat or even know you can eat haha. i also eat small amounts of wild fish or wild animals, depending on what i feel my need is. i eat a fair amount of raw food in the summer, less in winter. it just makes more sense in this climate. i also eat eggs from a friend's chickens once in a while.

[walkerinthewoods]

Just a thought--when people say they were on this or that diet it is meaningless unless you give a rough idea of what you were actually eating. A "vegan diet" that the 'average' vegan eats has almost no relation to my vegan diet for example, just as a food/nutrition savvy meat eater or vego's diet is going to have no relation to a fast food/supermarket eaters diet. I like to hear peoples' ideas about diet from all camps but like all other opinions they mostly seem to be just that, with no real information on which to base their judgements about this or that diet not doing this or that for them etc....thanks

 

I totally agree with you. But who here as given much information on this? I modified my diet during the whole vegan run, but I was still not doing it right for me. Looking back now I see problem areas.

 

For me I did a lot of research and tried to eat what I was "suppose" to eat. Inspite of all the information available, I think most of it is incomplete and just parts that people have heard and are repeating. I know now there are things that I could have done better and differently, but these are things that I did not learn from the vegan camp for the most part.

 

I am not against vegetarian or vegan diets. I even eat vegetarian at times during the year, usually during the summer when it is easier and more practical for me. I think both can be healthy if done right. A vegan diet however, as been discussed, requires a bit more which most people going into it don't know or understand. As I have found out and stated, there is some information that is not readily available or put out there which I think is important.

 

As for the topic of anti-aging, we all grow old. That is just how things are. But I think that eating a more traditional diet certainly helps us age well and healthy. When first looking into this topic you might think that it is all about eating meat, as many that promote this do talk a lot about it and I have heard some veggies complain about. But that is not the point. The whole point of eating a traditional diet is to eat healthy, nutrient dense foods. So the great thing is that this goes well whether you are eating an omnivore or vegetarian diet.