Kundalini is going up... what's the name of the one going down?

[zazaza]

kundalini is quite well documented in many religions,

and websites like: http://biologyofkundalini.com (i'm not sure how trustable this site is on information, or how important it is to read all of that)

 

i'm wondering what is the name of the energy that comes from "the heavens" and enters our body downwards through the body?

it's called "cosmic energy" or what?

 

which religion or system has got some good information on it?

Edited December 15, 2009 by zazaza

[fiveelementtao]

Well according to my understanding, Kundalini starts going up and then goes back down after it has reached the crown.

After reaching the crown, she starts her descent she is no longer kundalini, she has merged with Shiva and is now shiva conciousness descending.

I call descending energy, the Avatar energy. Avatar implies the descent of the divine...

That's my understanding, but I am curious to hear others' understandings...

 

kundalini is quite well documented in many religions,

and websites like: http://biologyofkundalini.com (i'm not sure how trustable this site is on information, or how important it is to read all of that)

 

i'm wondering what is the name of the energy that comes from "the heavens" and enters our body downwards through the body?

it's called "cosmic energy" or what?

 

which religion or system has got some good information on it?

[ShaktiMama]

Well according to my understanding, Kundalini starts going up and then goes back down after it has reached the crown.

After reaching the crown, she starts her descent she is no longer kundalini, she has merged with Shiva and is now shiva conciousness descending.

I call descending energy, the Avatar energy. Avatar implies the descent of the divine...

That's my understanding, but I am curious to hear others' understandings...

 

 

I will offer this up. Mapping traditions over one another is difficult. I have just about given up mapping the daoist view of energy with the traditional hindu. Kundalini is a cross cultural phenomena that appears in all the world's major spiritual traditions, most often occultly.

 

Yeah...there is some overlap but there is so much of local culture determination in describing spiritual events.

 

Hence, the 5 blind men describing the elephant story seems appropriate:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blind_men_and_an_elephant

[fizix]

I may be wrong, but the Mo Pai lineage might be 'heaven to earth' or 'from up to down'.

[fiveelementtao]

I may be wrong, but the Mo Pai lineage might be 'heaven to earth' or 'from up to down'.

 

From what I've heard and read about Mo Pai, I would classify it as a Earth to Heaven or upward method. It is definitely a fire method. When you have packed enough Chi into the Dan Tien it overflows and moves up. This is quite opposite of a Downward, water method.

[fizix]

From what I've heard and read about Mo Pai, I would classify it as a Earth to Heaven or upward method. It is definitely a fire method. When you have packed enough Chi into the Dan Tien it overflows and moves up. This is quite opposite of a Downward, water method.

Very true, I stand corrected

[Taomeow]

kundalini is quite well documented in many religions,

and websites like: http://biologyofkundalini.com (i'm not sure how trustable this site is on information, or how important it is to read all of that)

 

i'm wondering what is the name of the energy that comes from "the heavens" and enters our body downwards through the body?

it's called "cosmic energy" or what?

 

which religion or system has got some good information on it?

 

The energy is called "water" but not in the wet everyday sense, in the sense of the Water phase of the wuxing, Five Phases, type of qi you're activating. (Kundalini is the wuxing counterpart of "fire." The dance of the whirling dervishes, a spiritual transformation practice of certain sects of mystical Islam, is an "earth" practice. Shamanism, with plant and animal teachers accessed by many methods, is a "wood" practice. Pranayama is a "metal" practice.)

 

The downward-flowing process of transformation is known as shen to qi to jing conversion, or condensation.

 

The systems working with it are some taoist internal-alchemical modalities; yang feng shui that uses the downward flow as needed; knowledge of downward energies is very important in yin feng shui but I don't know much yin feng shui except it's all about avoiding these (downward flow is good for the living, not good for the dead); some methods of TCM and external alchemy; and some shamanic practices (e.g., the "flower bath" of the rainforest).

Edited December 16, 2009 by Taomeow

[Taiji Bum]

It's called Shakti and when it happens it's called Shaktipat. It often preceeds kundalini risings whether given by a guru or just the universe in general.

 

EDIT: Tantra has the best info on it and you might want to check out the Gita and the Yoga Sutra's of Patanjali.

Edited December 16, 2009 by DarinHamel

[Taomeow]

It's called Shakti and when it happens it's called Shaktipat. It often preceeds kundalini risings whether given by a guru or just the universe in general.

 

EDIT: Tantra has the best info on it and you might want to check out the Gita and the Yoga Sutra's of Patanjali.

I've checked out Muktananda, who got shaktipat from his guru and then indeed kundalini arose. Didn't look like shaktipat dissolved any obstacles in kundalini's way for him, the way Water would. The guy had to endure it gradually burning through the obstacles, in a culture that understood and supported the process. In ours, he would be locked up.

[zazaza]

According to some websites,

the kundalini absolutely does not rise until one has had shaktipat.

 

Do you men and women agree with this or not?

Edited December 16, 2009 by zazaza

[ryansmith]

According to some websites,

the kundalini does not rise until one has had shaktipat.

 

Do you men and women agree with this or not?

No, from what I have learned and been told, some people can be born with active kundalini. Also, being born to a mom who has kundalini will often lead to the child having active kundalini, but I guess this is kind of a form of shaktipat anyways.

Kundalini can also be activated through intense trauma like a car crash, severe depression, anxiety, etc... Eckhart Tolle described something that seemed to involve kundalini, and his rose from depression and finally surrendering. No guru or shaktipat involved.

Edited December 16, 2009 by ryansmith

[zazaza]

how can one be sure that his active kundalini

is not caused by spontaneous shaktipat already?

 

in the case of carcrash and anxiety related kundalini activations,

maybe there was also a spontaneous shaktipat that preceeded the kundalini awakening?

[rain]

I will offer this up. Mapping traditions over one another is difficult. I have just about given up mapping the daoist view of energy with the traditional hindu. Kundalini is a cross cultural phenomena that appears in all the world's major spiritual traditions, most often occultly.

 

Yeah...there is some overlap but there is so much of local culture determination in describing spiritual events.

 

Hence, the 5 blind men describing the elephant story seems appropriate:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blind_men_and_an_elephant

 

Hey ShaktiMama I believe I read that you also had a harrowing fast kundalini experience. I'm curious to know in realation to the previous posts how the energetic movements were felt in your case. Nevermind Taoist views or any other views than your personal. I have naturlly no Idea about how a *real* or *correct* kundaliniopening should be since I only have my own experience but I would love to learn about as many others as possible to add light to this phenomenon. And yes I've already read some online versions. I have described my own xpof the directions of the energyflows..

Could you describe your experience in detail?

Edited December 16, 2009 by rain

[lino]

The energy is called "water" but not in the wet everyday sense, in the sense of the Water phase of the wuxing, Five Phases, type of qi you're activating. (Kundalini is the wuxing counterpart of "fire." The dance of the whirling dervishes, a spiritual transformation practice of certain sects of mystical Islam, is an "earth" practice. Shamanism, with plant and animal teachers accessed by many methods, is a "wood" practice. Pranayama is a "metal" practice.)

 

The downward-flowing process of transformation is known as shen to qi to jing conversion, or condensation.

 

The systems working with it are some taoist internal-alchemical modalities; yang feng shui that uses the downward flow as needed; knowledge of downward energies is very important in yin feng shui but I don't know much yin feng shui except it's all about avoiding these (downward flow is good for the living, not good for the dead); some methods of TCM and external alchemy; and some shamanic practices (e.g., the "flower bath" of the rainforest).

 

The shen/qi/jing thing...I feel is inaccurate.

 

It was more like brain fluid going from the back of the head and down the spine. Yes it did dissolve obstructions.

[Taomeow]

The shen/qi/jing thing...I feel is inaccurate.

 

It was more like brain fluid going from the back of the head and down the spine. Yes it did dissolve obstructions.

 

What kind of obstacles can be dissolved by a fluid that has no meaning? Calcium deposits maybe? Certainly not traumatic memories?

 

Shen, qi, jing -- these are the medium and message of meaningful change.

[lino]

What kind of obstacles can be dissolved by a fluid that has no meaning? Calcium deposits maybe? Certainly not traumatic memories?

 

Shen, qi, jing -- these are the medium and message of meaningful change.

 

Water (no matter how MUNDANE) weathers down everything. Then what is weathered down and be eliminated or excreted. This stuff isn't mystical.

[Taomeow]

Water (no matter how MUNDANE) weathers down everything. Then what is weathered down and be eliminated or excreted. This stuff isn't mystical.

If things disappear without having graced one's consciousness with any understanding of what they were, where they came from and what they have to do with you, that's very mystical. The non-mystical way to dissolve obstacles is exactly the way you have acquired them: through living into them.

 

Anyway, I worship water, so if I start talking about water, everybody will be sorry they got me started.

[lino]

If things disappear without having graced one's consciousness with any understanding of what they were, where they came from and what they have to do with you, that's very mystical. The non-mystical way to dissolve obstacles is exactly the way you have acquired them: through living into them.

 

Anyway, I worship water, so if I start talking about water, everybody will be sorry they got me started.

 

Okay

 

Let's go with your "shen/chi/jing" model

 

You have the thought that everything was better when you were happy --- shen process

You intention becomes to be happy no matter what the circumstance --- chi process

You become happier, healthier, and you start eliminating and de-powering

needless shit --- jing process

 

Your "thought process" affects you down to the atomic level <--- that's not mystical or out of the ordinary

[Taomeow]

Okay

 

Let's go with your "shen/chi/jing" model

 

You have the thought that everything was better when you were happy --- shen process

You intention becomes to be happy no matter what the circumstance --- chi process

You become happier, healthier, and you start eliminating and de-powering

needless shit --- jing process

 

Your "thought process" affects you down to the atomic level <--- that's not mystical or out of the ordinary

 

Well, "shen" and "qi" processes of your example are both shen, neither of these is qi. Intention is derived from one of the five shens. If you don't go down the rabbit hole, you will not access the qi level, much less the jing level. The rabbit hole is way deep... I once talked to a guy who told me it took him 28 years to dissolve to the level of his tongue. THEN it got easier.

 

The thing is, people come up with many ideas but few practices that affect them on the level of the DNA. A jing-level process does many things, some not so mysterious, some very mysterious, but what it affects on the atomic level is anyone's guess while on the molecular level, to wit on the level of the DNA, there's got to be observable metabolic change for us to talk of a jing-level process. E.g., to give a personal example, I grew almost two inches at the age of 40, my body temperature (which used to be elevated to subfebrile figures for all of my prior life) dropped three degrees Farenheit and stayed there permanently (this means a different metabolic rate, lower oxidation without loss of efficiency, i.e. it didn't cause nor was caused by things like low thyroid, it actually promotes guiltless eating of high-calorie foods I love with no associated weight gain, which is one sign of an efficient thyroid), my eye color changed from hazel to hazel-green to dark brown, and my ability to endure stress with measurable stability of heart rate, blood pressure, respiration rate, immune functions, etc., improved about ten times compared to what it was before. These are jing processes. The very beginning thereof...

 

What about you -- what did the brain fluid actually do?

[lino]

Well, "shen" and "qi" processes of your example are both shen, neither of these is qi. Intention is derived from one of the five shens. If you don't go down the rabbit hole, you will not access the qi level, much less the jing level. The rabbit hole is way deep... I once talked to a guy who told me it took him 28 years to dissolve to the level of his tongue. THEN it got easier.

 

The thing is, people come up with many ideas but few practices that affect them on the level of the DNA. A jing-level process does many things, some not so mysterious, some very mysterious, but what it affects on the atomic level is anyone's guess while on the molecular level, to wit on the level of the DNA, there's got to be observable metabolic change for us to talk of a jing-level process. E.g., to give a personal example, I grew almost two inches at the age of 40, my body temperature (which used to be elevated to subfebrile figures for all of my prior life) dropped three degrees Farenheit and stayed there permanently (this means a different metabolic rate, lower oxidation without loss of efficiency, i.e. it didn't cause nor was caused by things like low thyroid, it actually promotes guiltless eating of high-calorie foods I love with no associated weight gain, which is one sign of an efficient thyroid), my eye color changed from hazel to hazel-green to dark brown, and my ability to endure stress with measurable stability of heart rate, blood pressure, respiration rate, immune functions, etc., improved about ten times compared to what it was before. These are jing processes. The very beginning thereof...

 

What about you -- what did the brain fluid actually do?

 

 

Wow.

 

You definitely invested a lot of time in "that". Something I definitely won't do. I rather spend my time on being happier.

 

The beginnings of warmth in the midsection to answer your question.

Edited December 17, 2009 by lino

[Taomeow]

 

Wow.

 

You definitely invested a lot of time in "that". Something I definitely won't do. I rather spend my time on being happier.

 

The beginnings of warmth in the midsection to answer your question.

Thank you.

 

It wasn't a choice. If I knew how to be happy without being healthy, I would probably never do any practices to begin with.

 

But a side effect of a really good practice might be that once you're happier and healthier, you might feel you want something else? Happiness is not terribly reliable... what makes you happy today might lose its magic, what makes you unhappy might not ask you if you want it in your life... here's a quote I have handy:

 

"Forget about likes and dislikes.

They are of no consequence.

Just do what must be done.

This may not be happiness,

but it is greatness." ---George Bernard Shaw

Edited December 17, 2009 by Taomeow

[lino]

Thank you.

 

It wasn't a choice. If I knew how to be happy without being healthy, I would probably never do any practices to begin with.

 

But a side effect of a really good practice might be that once you're happier and healthier, you might feel you want something else? Happiness is not terribly reliable... what makes you happy today might lose its magic, what makes you unhappy might not ask you if you want it in your life... here's a quote I have handy:

 

"Forget about likes and dislikes.

They are of no consequence.

Just do what must be done.

This may not be happiness,

but it is greatness." ---George Bernard Shaw

 

 

The "happiness" that you get is not something that I want.

Much less something I'm looking for.

The "happiness" that you describe seems "external" and depends on result.

[Taomeow]

 

The "happiness" that you get is not something that I want.

Much less something I'm looking for.

The "happiness" that you describe seems "external" and depends on result.

My body may be external to you but it's pretty internal to me.

 

Regardless... you said shen-qi-jing is incorrect, I said tomato. So did my teachers. To each their own.

[ShaktiMama]

Hey ShaktiMama I believe I read that you also had a harrowing fast kundalini experience. I'm curious to know in realation to the previous posts how the energetic movements were felt in your case. Nevermind Taoist views or any other views than your personal. I have naturlly no Idea about how a *real* or *correct* kundaliniopening should be since I only have my own experience but I would love to learn about as many others as possible to add light to this phenomenon. And yes I've already read some online versions. I have described my own xpof the directions of the energyflows..

Could you describe your experience in detail?

 

I just did a 2 hour interview for someone in the UK and the awakening fast did come up.

 

So I could just say, remember in the movie "Aliens" where the aliens burst out the guys chest? I could say I had some similiar experiences.

 

When my heart center was opening I went into a spontaneous asana. It was form of the bridge pose but more extreme:

http://www.yogajournal.com/poses/472

 

my shoulders did not touch my bed. I was balancing between the back of my head and my heels, my body in an arched C shape, my eyes and chin facing the wall behind me. My arms were flung out to the side as far as I could stretch them. The feeling was, " I. have. to. open. up. my. chest. wide. NOW!" As i said this was spontaneous. I do not do yoga at the time and still don't.

 

The visual I saw was like a circular saw, a la Freddy Kreuger, slicing up the center of my chest through my sternum. Very bloody. It sounded like someone was tearing raw meat. When my chest was open a column of bluish green light shot out into the universe and then spread out in all directions at the apex.

 

Didn't hurt at all but just weird to feel the sensation of cutting meat and hear crushing bone. Plus there was the feeling of great bliss.

 

What I felt and still feel in my body are sinusoidal movements, like a snake you might say. It feels like the air has weight and pressure. I can feel wind moving in the room and inside my body but all the windows are closed.

 

I feel heat, I feel cold, I feel the most exquisite pleasure. I feel paths of energy racing through my body...it pulses, it roars, it rolls like waves.

 

I had full on constant spontaneous kriyas and asanas.

 

I feel constant and multiple orbits. Orbits within orbits. Orbits that are like figure eights. Orbits that are shared with other people, trees, planets,etc. Like waves constantly pulsing through my body.

 

I feel a wave that is as wide as my body that rises up from the center of the earth, hits the heavens and bounces back continuously. The waves have pressure and weight and often times color when I tune into them.

 

Often I would have constant orgasms, continual pelvic spontaneous rocking, curled up in a fetal position on my bed moaning with the pure ecstasy so exquisite it was bordering on painful.

 

Does that give you some ideas?

[voidisyinyang]

The shen is laser-holographic transmission and it's a very rare transmission. It feels like a laser and you see light when it gets transmitted. The chi is the "zapping" transmission or electromagnetic. The jing is the blissful heat created from the chemical energy of the body.

 

The shen/qi/jing thing...I feel is inaccurate.

 

It was more like brain fluid going from the back of the head and down the spine. Yes it did dissolve obstructions.