Enlightenment is a cultural myth?

[ShaktiMama]

Back in the mid 90s I was in conversation with a net acquaintance, a pagan and excellent healer, on a kundalini list. Her name was Morgana.

 

Being on a kundalini list, moderating kundalini lists, and being the owner of my own kundalini list, invariably people ask what enlightenment is. People offer up all kinds of info and descriptions. One day Morgana said back then, "enlightenment is a cultural myth," and it was like a bell ringing to me. Time stood still. After listening to so much talk I realized that people view enlightenment through a cultural lens with all it's baggage.

 

Many claim to be enlightened. Ummm... why?

 

I took to saying enlightened behavior is a descriptor of enlightenment, the state. Then, being the pragmatic contrarian that i am, I said, "enlightenment is what you do in your living room at home when no one's watching."

 

If you meet the Buddha, kill him... Because it is an imposter. Buddha is dead. Or kill him before he kills you first which is what the greatest teachers do. OR....talk among yourselves.

[Enishi]

I can believe easily that some have been able to change their perception enough to have a deeper understanding of things, perhaps up to a point where it doesn't go away if they aren't meditating, and perhaps are able to react better to the needs of the situation

 

I'm much more skeptical about the existence of an 'enlightened, be all end all' state wherein one is perfectly morally flawless and omniscient.

[TzuJanLi]

Greetings..

 

I generally stay away from this topic, but.. what the heck:

 

Enlightenment is a placebo, a place-holder.. a notion that lets you rest awhile.. it's not a 'destination', it's a new point of departure.. i have yet to see an adequate definition of 'Enlightenment', so further discussion is pretty much "apples and oranges".. each person in the discussion will have their unique perspective of the definition of 'Enlightenment'.. personally, i think the 'word/concept' has done much more harm than benefit.. it has become a prize for spiritual competition..

 

Be well..

[ShaktiMama]

Greetings..

 

I generally stay away from this topic, but.. what the heck:

 

Enlightenment is a placebo, a place-holder.. a notion that lets you rest awhile.. it's not a 'destination', it's a new point of departure.. i have yet to see an adequate definition of 'Enlightenment', so further discussion is pretty much "apples and oranges".. each person in the discussion will have their unique perspective of the definition of 'Enlightenment'.. personally, i think the 'word/concept' has done much more harm than benefit.. it has become a prize for spiritual competition..

 

Be well..

 

You guys...get outta my head. I was asked on another topic to post this for discussion. Normally, I run screaming in to the night when this subject comes up because personally it doesn't help anyone and often degenerates into a mud throwing, my teacher is better than your teacher contest.. Better to work on being a good person.

 

But what can I say, I like to please people.

[Inedible]

Was Morgana from Topeka? The name seems almost familiar somehow.

[Enishi]

When taking into account the various sources which claim my second above description of enlightenment is true (the ultimate moral perfection state), the three main sources I've seen are:

 

1. Teachers from various traditions who may have powers and greater insight into certain subjects than the average person, and varying degrees of morality and peacefulness. However, ALL of those that I've seen, including the ones who claim enlightenment, inevitably have some form of personal flaw whether it be arrogance, wrong assumptions, etc.

 

2. Ancient sutras, which although they may contain information on things which modern society does not currently understand, also make claims that humans used to live for millions of years and incarnated here because the core of the planet tastes like honey.

 

3. Spirit 'guides', who tend to have an even worse track record of reliability than human teachers. Just look at the whole history of channeling and mediumship to see what I mean.

Edited December 16, 2009 by Enishi

[Apech]

So is enlightenment a myth, cultural or otherwise?

 

A myth nowadays is taken to mean something that is not true. But that's a very modern take on the word based on the running down of a whole way of thinking by the literalists of science and so on. Myth is from the Greek 'mythos' which really means a speech, story or word. So a myth is a story. A special kind of story. The language of myth relates to a kind of understanding which is different to straight forward logic. It is story about powers and the interaction of powers. Properly understood it is an illustration of energy interaction. So when the Greeks talk about Zeus coming down from Mount Olympus as a swan ... or whatever ... they are illustrating the interaction of divine power with the world through their mythology.

 

If we believe, as they believed, that the world is composed of energy or power, a divine play of energy if you like, then these myths are full of potential to reveal to us more and more about the nature of reality. They reveal as much as science can about ourselves and the world but in a very different way.

 

If we are engaged in spiritual work and see ourselves involved in some process of development, some kind of way or journey, then it is natural to think that this journey has an end. One day we will arrive at where we are going. Its natural because that's our experience in everyday life. In the world of matter and time we expend energy moving from point to point. Depending on the cultural nature of the particular way we are involved in we can see the end point in different ways. Nirvana, union with god, immortality and so on... the number of ways that the end point is defined is as many as there are systems. Are they all the same? As expressed no they are not.

 

So in these ways enlightenment is a cultural myth because it is part of the narrative we give ourselves to understand the process we are engaged in. But it is not a myth in the sense of a lie, falsehood or mistake.

 

The reason that the different ways project an end point in this way is that it is important for our understanding, or so I believe. It is possible to achieve states of being along the way which are highly energised, blissful and so on. And this can be done by moving in a certain direction (in a manner of speaking) or working in a certain way. But these states are kind of unidirectional they are not complete. A good way, a good path, develops balance leading to completion. One of the ways it does this is by providing a map on which we can place ourselves. To have a map you need an origin, the origin projects the map. To have an origin presupposes an end. Every alpha has its omega. And the end is enlightenment.

 

In a non-dualist system the alpha, the path and the omega are not different ....

 

Just my thoughts.

Edited December 16, 2009 by apepch7

[fiveelementtao]

For me enlightenment is a process. IMO and IME the most enlightened that someone can be is to follow the golden rule. Treat others with compassion, kindness and love. IMO and IME you don't need Chi, or Kundalini to do this. There are plenty of people who sacrifice for the benefit of others and have no inkling of energy or mystical expereinces. Energetic disciplines are only tools. For some, energy, Chi. kundalini... can even be a huge hindrance because they use it like a drug. Enlightenment experiences (Visions, powers, dreams etc..) are utterly meaningless unless followed by permanent change in consciousness and maturity. "Temporary Enlightenment Experience" is an oxymoron.

 

Moreover, IME and IMO anyone looking for enlightenment as one time experience that instantly and permanently changes them and relieves them of all suffering... is looking to escape. true enlightenment to me means a process of lightening the burdens of mind/ego. IME and IMO this can only happen when personal daily commitment are combined with Divine Grace.... Then, you have a daily, incremental process of enlightenment. IME anyone whom I've met who exhibits properties of enlightenment have not achieved it without years of daily practice and claim only to be human... conversely, all those that I've met or heard who claim to have achieved enlightenment have been the most selfish, destructive people I've ever met...

 

So, in short, I wholeheartedly agree that the Western concept of immediate and painless enlightenment is a myth of our Micro wave escapist culture...

Edited December 16, 2009 by fiveelementtao

[zazaza]

As there are masters at keeping the body healthy,

making music, etc...

 

there are those who have mastered the art of happiness.

The masters of happiness have mastered the mind..

 

very often in the past, these are the ones who I have called enlightened people...

because i adore the surpreme happiness so very much it is that i which i call LIGHT.

 

others sometimes call it TAO or nirvana.

i call it a lot of different names

Edited December 16, 2009 by zazaza

[ShaktiMama]

For me enlightenment is a process. IMO and IME the most enlightened that someone can be is to follow the golden rule. Treat others with compassion, kindness and love. IMO and IME you don't need Chi, or Kundalini to do this. There are plenty of people who sacrifice for the benefit of others and have no inkling of energy or mystical expereinces. Energetic disciplines are only tools. For some, energy, Chi. kundalini... can even be a huge hindrance because they use it like a drug. Enlightenment experiences (Visions, powers, dreams etc..) are utterly meaningless unless followed by permanent change in consciousness and maturity. "Temporary Enlightenment Experience" is an oxymoron.

 

Moreover, IME and IMO anyone looking for enlightenment as one time experience that instantly and permanently changes them and relieves them of all suffering... is looking to escape. true enlightenment to me means a process of lightening the burdens of mind/ego. IME and IMO this can only happen when personal daily commitment are combined with Divine Grace.... Then, you have a daily, incremental process of enlightenment. IME anyone whom I've met who exhibits properties of enlightenment have not achieved it without years of daily practice and claim only to be human... conversely, all those that I've met or heard who claim to have achieved enlightenment have been the most selfish, destructive people I've ever met...

 

So, in short, I wholeheartedly agree that the Western concept of immediate and painless enlightenment is a myth of our Micro wave escapist culture...

 

 

I love this. People often look for the "glow in the dark" phenomena siddis of kundalini and chi. Those siddis are just amusement parks of diversion along the way.

 

If you work the path, be diligent, there is a change. Put one foot in front of the other, keep taking steps and one day you probably will glow in the dark. (I know some who do) But, that is about as significant as getting a tan in the relation to the progress one has made in become self aware.

 

Developing siddis are not for bolstering an insecure self image. IMO and experience they are for service. But, they are tools...their use determined by the consciousness of the holder.

 

Glenn Morris was adamant that enlightenment was a biological process. Now that is more rational to me.

[Deepbluesea]

I wouldn't deny that there are those that have reached enlightenment. At the same time, since enlightenment isn't the number of buttons on one's shirt, or a magical physical demonstration -- it wouldn't be quantifiable -- its pretty hard for me to imagine the concept of enlightenment.

 

It may or may not be a myth but it is so far away from me, it doesn't really enter into my head. Kind of like someone that just made a cent in the last hour that thinks about making a trillion dollars in the next hour. I just try to be a giving, honest person, take care of myself, and practice some cultivation everyday.

 

To say enlightenment is a myth sounds catchy and all, but in my weak-ass thought, I would say its pretty hard to deny its existence.

 

Everyone has some sort of preconceived idea (that is probably way mistaken) of what enlightenment is, and if you are saying that idea is a myth, then I will whole heartedly agree that our ideas of enlightenment are most likely wrong.

 

BUT,

 

Is Shiva enlightened?

 

Is Shakti enlightened?

 

Of course how can I expect an answer that I can understand, or anyone to give me an answer, if none of us know what enlightenment is, or if it exists.

 

I am sure it goes back to some sort of duality -- enlightenment is absolutely myth as much as it is absolutely real. As long as you have a coin to flip, you can always deny, affirm, not deny, not affirm anything.

 

This is why I just try to breathe right, run a smile through my body, and become a conduit with all that exists ... and all that doesn't.

 

ps. Susan there is so much peace in your posts, they chill me out, thanks! Dave

Edited December 16, 2009 by Deepbluesea

[lino]

And the end is enlightenment.

 

 

 

Wow.

 

Tell that to Bodhisattva Tara (who was and is a Buddha) and the innumerable Bodhisattvas. From what I've observed of people of that nature, they come back to get everybody.

[lino]

its pretty hard for me to imagine the concept of enlightenment.

 

 

I do and it is pretty mundane.

 

Picture a million tons of misconceptions, limitations, and garbage just falling off of

you.

[C T]

Enlightenment itself is not a myth. It is very very real indeed.

However, to imagine that Enlightenment is some goal that is attainable is most definitely a myth,

and one that perpetuates Un-Enlightenment.

 

When one finally exhausts oneself from chasing after that which one has never lost, and decides

one no longer has the energy to pursue this elusive and illusive thing called Enlightenment, that is

the moment of awakening. It is like waking up to the realization that one has been clutching a

piece of burning ember one's whole life.

 

The conscious engagement in the process of investigating oneself truthfully and peeling off all the

layers of conditioned reactions and responses thru this appraisal can be called the path towards liberation.

This is the hard work that one has to put in to un-learn why this piece of burning ember, even though it

feels very hot and burning our hand, was after all, only a figment of our imagination, a by-product of

conditioning, ignorance and delusion. It is to arrive at the understanding that indeed we can be free of

this clutching at no 'thing'.

 

If one succeeds in finally letting go even the subtlest notions of this piece of hot ember in one's grasp, then

one can be considered free of delusion, which is none other than a state of Enlightenment. However, there

are those who, after freeing themselves from this delusion, decide that life no longer excites them, and

they then choose to return to grasping at that which they find seem to make them more 'human', that

is, they choose to re-possess this 'familiar and comforting piece of hot ember', because by doing so, it

makes them 'alive' and be among the 'living' - because being Enlightened is actually a lonely place to be -

then one loses the Enlightenment, and return to perpetuating the wheel of Un-Enlightenment.

 

To summarize, please watch these 3 clips that explains most clearly what Enlightenment is and is NOT. As

you reflect deeply on the substance behind the words, you will leave here with a much better idea of

Enlightenment. Thank you... and much blessings.

 

 

All the best.

 

PS. From what i understand, those who have awakened no longer have in them the need to use caustic

language and swear words. It is very unbecoming of one who claims to be a teacher, then uses improper

language to highlight points. It shows lack of taste and self-respect, and discredits the reader or listener.

Absolutely unnecessary, IMO. It reflects on the teachings/system represented in more ways than one.

Just an after-thought..

[Apech]

 

Wow.

 

Tell that to Bodhisattva Tara (who was and is a Buddha) and the innumerable Bodhisattvas. From what I've observed of people of that nature, they come back to get everybody.

 

 

Come back from where to where?

[Deepbluesea]

Brother,

If your curry is as good as your words of wisdom, I will have to make the trip across the pond to enjoy some of it!

 

Respectfully, if we can't put our finger on exactly what enlightenment is -- in reference to using language to its fullest -- how can you put your finger on what enlightenment is not. Words are simply words, a collection of ancients letters that elicit similar but often different thoughts between us all. And thoughts are just thoughts, neither of which have anything to do with enlightenment, or everything to do with enlightenment -- damn it!

 

Had some panang this weekend that was out of the world!

[ralis]

These discussion about enlightenment just get way too heavy. If you link to this site, Bob will enlighten you once and for all!

 

http://www.subgenius.com/

 

ralis

Edited December 16, 2009 by ralis

[lino]

Come back from where to where?

 

You'll probably see later on your path.

[~jK~]

 

For me enlightenment is a process. IMO and IME the most enlightened that someone can be is to follow the golden rule. Treat others with compassion, kindness and love. IMO and IME you don't need Chi, or Kundalini to do this.

 

There are plenty of people who sacrifice for the benefit of others and have no inkling of energy or mystical expereinces.

 

Energetic disciplines are only tools. For some, energy, Chi. kundalini... can even be a huge hindrance because they use it like a drug. Enlightenment experiences (Visions, powers, dreams etc..) are utterly meaningless unless followed by permanent change in consciousness and maturity. "Temporary Enlightenment Experience" is an oxymoron.

Try to quit being analytical and be more of the student you were long ago - when you began learning ...

A library of books:

http://www.kundaliniawakeningsystems1.com/downloads.html

music:

http://www.kundaliniawakeningsystems1.com/audio-osho.html

Tales of Awakening:

http://www.kundaliniawakeningsystems1.com/awakening.html

Edited December 19, 2009 by ~jK~

[Encephalon]

Edited December 16, 2009 by Blasto

[ShaktiMama]

When taking into account the various sources which claim my second above description of enlightenment is true (the ultimate moral perfection state), the three main sources I've seen are:

 

1. Teachers from various traditions who may have powers and greater insight into certain subjects than the average person, and varying degrees of morality and peacefulness. However, ALL of those that I've seen, including the ones who claim enlightenment, inevitably have some form of personal flaw whether it be arrogance, wrong assumptions, etc.

 

2. Ancient sutras, which although they may contain information on things which modern society does not currently understand, also make claims that humans used to live for millions of years and incarnated here because the core of the planet tastes like honey.

 

3. Spirit 'guides', who tend to have an even worse track record of reliability than human teachers. Just look at the whole history of channeling and mediumship to see what I mean.

 

oh my goodness...what is the ultimate moral perfection state? I thought morals are culturally subjective. What's perfectly moral in polynesia may not be so in Kansas. Maybe ethical is better? Do you mean Christian morals, pagan morals, Islamic morals, New York City morals? teenager morals? Grandpa morals. God forbid I live by my Dad's right wing, arch republican conservative, racial purity morals.

 

If you are enlightened I would suggest it is not necessary to tell anyone. It may be noticeable to a large group of people. Well maybe not cause people are different. Self righteous moral purity is repugnant to me. Maybe because I use to be a christian fundie...so like a reformed smoker I can't stand what I used to do.

 

Just speaking from my own experiences

 

Was Morgana from Topeka? The name seems almost familiar somehow.

 

 

I think she is in California or at least that was the case about 10 years ago.

[doc benway]

Enlightenment is what happened when I realized that I know everything and the rest of you are full of crap.

Peace

[ShaktiMama]

I wouldn't deny that there are those that have reached enlightenment. At the same time, since enlightenment isn't the number of buttons on one's shirt, or a magical physical demonstration -- it wouldn't be quantifiable -- its pretty hard for me to imagine the concept of enlightenment.

 

It may or may not be a myth but it is so far away from me, it doesn't really enter into my head. Kind of like someone that just made a cent in the last hour that thinks about making a trillion dollars in the next hour. I just try to be a giving, honest person, take care of myself, and practice some cultivation everyday.

 

To say enlightenment is a myth sounds catchy and all, but in my weak-ass thought, I would say its pretty hard to deny its existence.

 

Everyone has some sort of preconceived idea (that is probably way mistaken) of what enlightenment is, and if you are saying that idea is a myth, then I will whole heartedly agree that our ideas of enlightenment are most likely wrong.

 

BUT,

 

Is Shiva enlightened?

 

Is Shakti enlightened?

 

Of course how can I expect an answer that I can understand, or anyone to give me an answer, if none of us know what enlightenment is, or if it exists.

 

I am sure it goes back to some sort of duality -- enlightenment is absolutely myth as much as it is absolutely real. As long as you have a coin to flip, you can always deny, affirm, not deny, not affirm anything.

 

This is why I just try to breathe right, run a smile through my body, and become a conduit with all that exists ... and all that doesn't.

 

ps. Susan there is so much peace in your posts, they chill me out, thanks! Dave

 

 

You are welcome Dave. I have my days.

 

First can we prove enlightenment exists? How? Having been around the block a few times I have yet to find in my limited contact with the whole freaking universe and everything that lives in it that proves to moi that enlightenment exists unless of course you are dead. I am of a big ego and highly judge-mental so my pronouncement is probably a little off. So that is why I vote for cultural myth. We probably can check it out by looking at and agreeing what enlightened behavior is. That will take awhile.

 

breathing, smiling, and a conduit...that's pretty cool

 

So is enlightenment a myth, cultural or otherwise?

 

A myth nowadays is taken to mean something that is not true. But that's a very modern take on the word based on the running down of a whole way of thinking by the literalists of science and so on. Myth is from the Greek 'mythos' which really means a speech, story or word. So a myth is a story. A special kind of story. The language of myth relates to a kind of understanding which is different to straight forward logic. It is story about powers and the interaction of powers. Properly understood it is an illustration of energy interaction. So when the Greeks talk about Zeus coming down from Mount Olympus as a swan ... or whatever ... they are illustrating the interaction of divine power with the world through their mythology.

 

If we believe, as they believed, that the world is composed of energy or power, a divine play of energy if you like, then these myths are full of potential to reveal to us more and more about the nature of reality. They reveal as much as science can about ourselves and the world but in a very different way.

 

If we are engaged in spiritual work and see ourselves involved in some process of development, some kind of way or journey, then it is natural to think that this journey has an end. One day we will arrive at where we are going. Its natural because that's our experience in everyday life. In the world of matter and time we expend energy moving from point to point. Depending on the cultural nature of the particular way we are involved in we can see the end point in different ways. Nirvana, union with god, immortality and so on... the number of ways that the end point is defined is as many as there are systems. Are they all the same? As expressed no they are not.

 

So in these ways enlightenment is a cultural myth because it is part of the narrative we give ourselves to understand the process we are engaged in. But it is not a myth in the sense of a lie, falsehood or mistake.

 

The reason that the different ways project an end point in this way is that it is important for our understanding, or so I believe. It is possible to achieve states of being along the way which are highly energised, blissful and so on. And this can be done by moving in a certain direction (in a manner of speaking) or working in a certain way. But these states are kind of unidirectional they are not complete. A good way, a good path, develops balance leading to completion. One of the ways it does this is by providing a map on which we can place ourselves. To have a map you need an origin, the origin projects the map. To have an origin presupposes an end. Every alpha has its omega. And the end is enlightenment.

 

In a non-dualist system the alpha, the path and the omega are not different ....

 

Just my thoughts.

 

I tease my students telling them, "so what you gonna do when you are sitting on the big couch of the enlightenment with that remote control in your hand?"

[ShaktiMama]

Enlightenment itself is not a myth. It is very very real indeed.

However, to imagine that Enlightenment is some goal that is attainable is most definitely a myth,

and one that perpetuates Un-Enlightenment.

 

When one finally exhausts oneself from chasing after that which one has never lost, and decides

one no longer has the energy to pursue this elusive and illusive thing called Enlightenment, that is

the moment of awakening. It is like waking up to the realization that one has been clutching a

piece of burning ember one's whole life.

 

The conscious engagement in the process of investigating oneself truthfully and peeling off all the

layers of conditioned reactions and responses thru this appraisal can be called the path towards liberation.

This is the hard work that one has to put in to un-learn why this piece of burning ember, even though it

feels very hot and burning our hand, was after all, only a figment of our imagination, a by-product of

conditioning, ignorance and delusion. It is to arrive at the understanding that indeed we can be free of

this clutching at no 'thing'.

 

If one succeeds in finally letting go even the subtlest notions of this piece of hot ember in one's grasp, then

one can be considered free of delusion, which is none other than a state of Enlightenment. However, there

are those who, after freeing themselves from this delusion, decide that life no longer excites them, and

they then choose to return to grasping at that which they find seem to make them more 'human', that

is, they choose to re-possess this 'familiar and comforting piece of hot ember', because by doing so, it

makes them 'alive' and be among the 'living' - because being Enlightened is actually a lonely place to be -

then one loses the Enlightenment, and return to perpetuating the wheel of Un-Enlightenment.

 

To summarize, please watch these 3 clips that explains most clearly what Enlightenment is and is NOT. As

you reflect deeply on the substance behind the words, you will leave here with a much better idea of

Enlightenment. Thank you... and much blessings.

 

 

All the best.

 

PS. From what i understand, those who have awakened no longer have in them the need to use caustic

language and swear words. It is very unbecoming of one who claims to be a teacher, then uses improper

language to highlight points. It shows lack of taste and self-respect, and discredits the reader or listener.

Absolutely unnecessary, IMO. It reflects on the teachings/system represented in more ways than one.

Just an after-thought..

 

So Cow Tao...how are you different now that you have watched those videos. How have you been changed? Honestly, I did not watch. I am not into the lecture path. I want to know how you live because you now know what enlightenment is.

 

Prepare to be offended Cow Tao. Your cultural prejudices are showing. The path to enlightenment( if it does exist) i can say is not clean or clear...can be rather disgusting, immoral (there's that word) and messy. I would reference the Aghoras.

 

I was telling my senior students a few days ago that I eat, breathe, and shit God.

 

Why is that? There is in the UNIVERSE, in my judgmental opinion only Consciousness. Immaterial or material, sacred and profane, and all in between there only Is THAT WHICH IS.

 

I have chosen to experience All that IS as Sacred. That's limiting That but I am still learning. Someday I will know beyond a shadow of a doubt that it all just IS. Well I do know that on an experiential level but it still hasn't totally filtered out into my day to day living. That's where it counts IMO.

 

 

 

Wow.

 

Tell that to Bodhisattva Tara (who was and is a Buddha) and the innumerable Bodhisattvas. From what I've observed of people of that nature, they come back to get everybody.

 

 

nice catch

 

These discussion about enlightenment just get way too heavy. If you link to this site, Bob will enlighten you once and for all!

 

http://www.subgenius.com/

 

ralis

 

 

love bob and his church

[soundhunter]

Byron Katie's personal story seems to illustrate an example of what I call enlightenment, she woke up with a profoundly different understanding of humanity, as if a light came on, that instant, off, then on. On her website she explains it on this page, scroll down to the "How The Work Began" to read her explanation. Basically, I've understood enlightenment to mean the end of suffering, which in normal human states, is as common a human condition as joy and love. I've found Byron Katie's "The Work" to be a useful process for sorting through some difficult interpersonal problems, though I found her new-agey explanations for things to be undigestible, however I think she is a good example of someone in modern times who's "enlightened" and find it interesting because she wasn't seeking to become so. She didn't start teaching as soon as this transformation happened, according to the more elaborate explantion in her book, everyone in her life was in awe of this transformation, she went from a bitter, angry intolerable biotch to a joyful person in complete peace with herself and everyone around her, and they began to ask her to help them to learn what she had learned to become this way. More and more people began to seek her out through word of mouth, and so it became a given that she would become a teacher/writer/flaky new age guru. I think we've all been around people that are more enlightened than others, whether or not they are absolutely enlightened, I've certainly been around people who radiate peace and a supernatural goodness that is uncommon in the average person we encounter.

 

CowTao's explanation quoted below is sorta what happened to Byron Katie, who was living in a women's shelter in a psychological state as low as low can be, though she wasn't persuing enlightenment, it just happened when she was at an extreme emotional state of rock bottom.

 

Cow Tao said:

When one finally exhausts oneself from chasing after that which one has never lost, and decides

one no longer has the energy to pursue this elusive and illusive thing called Enlightenment, that is

the moment of awakening. It is like waking up to the realization that one has been clutching a

piece of burning ember one's whole life.

Edited December 16, 2009 by soundhunter