Apana - the real cultivation culprit?

[Aetherous]

So I just got the book Microchakras: InnerTuning for Psychological Well-being by Sri Shyamji Bhatnagar. Really nice book, for those interested in Indian systems. What's especially interesting are his views on the spiritual/energetic path. They are totally different than anything I've seen before.

 

What it says summed up is:

• Apana rising in the sun channel gives your blockages (which were mostly formed in the first 3 years of life) more juice, keeping you stuck in lower psychological states.
  
• Energy naturally descends in the sun channel, and rises in the moon channel...apana naturally descends. Bad results come from apana rising in the sun channel.
  
• Opening your chakras in the moon channel negates the blockages in the sun channel, so that kundalini can rise effortlessly. He uses specific mantras for each chakra.
  
• Waking up 2 hours before dawn, to eliminate, is the best way to keep apana from rising.
  
• What we actually want to cultivate in meditation is "surya akasha"...which is the finest of the fine of the elements. Not qi, shen, sex energy, etc.
  
• Keeping the tongue to the roof of the mouth is a good way to keep the surya akasha in the head.
  

Maybe there's more that I forgot. I may add it later.

 

Basically the protocol used in the book is to: wake up early, go to the bathroom, work on a chakra (psychological state) through mantra, sit upright in meditation during the time that both nostrils are open, then regulate the flow in the nostril according to the patterns of the moon.

[SAMANTABHADRA]

....go on...

[goldisheavy]

All paths based on doing are erroneous. For example, making energy rise up is in error. Making it go down is in error. Purposefully abstaining from involvement is a form of doing, thus is also in error.

 

Basically all forms of manipulation, positive (purposeful involvement) and negative (purposeful non-involvement) are in error. Why? Because the intention behind all positive and negative manipulation is to enact some kind of desired final state. The problem lies in the belief that there is such a thing as a "final state". As long as you believe it, you'll always try to attain it and your life will be one of laborious difficulty and ignorance. You'll fall prey to cults, to various money grabbing gurus, become a sex slave, or worse. In the best case scenario you'll just waste your time feeling unfulfilled, chasing the next big dream.

 

This kind of scheming and plotting mindset has been pointed out as an error by Taoists like Chuang Tzu. Of course no one gives a rats ass about that, because Chuang Tzu is not a kundalini or chi guy, so he's not in style now.

[dwai]

So I just got the book Microchakras: InnerTuning for Psychological Well-being by Sri Shyamji Bhatnagar. Really nice book, for those interested in Indian systems. What's especially interesting are his views on the spiritual/energetic path. They are totally different than anything I've seen before.

 

What it says summed up is:

• Apana rising in the sun channel gives your blockages (which were mostly formed in the first 3 years of life) more juice, keeping you stuck in lower psychological states.
  
• Energy naturally descends in the sun channel, and rises in the moon channel...apana naturally descends. Bad results come from apana rising in the sun channel.
  
• Opening your chakras in the moon channel negates the blockages in the sun channel, so that kundalini can rise effortlessly. He uses specific mantras for each chakra.
  
• Waking up 2 hours before dawn, to eliminate, is the best way to keep apana from rising.
  
• What we actually want to cultivate in meditation is "surya akasha"...which is the finest of the fine of the elements. Not qi, shen, sex energy, etc.
  
• Keeping the tongue to the roof of the mouth is a good way to keep the surya akasha in the head.
  

Maybe there's more that I forgot. I may add it later.

 

Basically the protocol used in the book is to: wake up early, go to the bathroom, work on a chakra (psychological state) through mantra, sit upright in meditation during the time that both nostrils are open, then regulate the flow in the nostril according to the patterns of the moon.

 

Ideally apana should not rise...because apana is a downward energy, it's role is to do cleaning and releasing. Apana is responsible for all forms of excretory functions and it powers the same. Perhaps that is why it recommends to eliminate early in the morning, because otherwise Apana will try to find it's way out. If it cannot flow downward/outward it will flow upward.

 

I was reading that many health problems in the modern world are because of accumulation in the digestive tract, which prevent good elimination. When that happens, the stuff tries to find it's way out (through the skin or reversing the direction). That is Apana trying to find it's way out...

 

Perhaps that is why in Ayurveda, it is recommended to eat specific types of food, based on the constitution (Dosha), which help balance the 5 energies and regulate their natural flow.

[Aetherous]

Samantabhadra,

 

....go on...

 

I was hoping others with knowledge would. This is the first time I've heard of apana basically being the problem for spiritual practitioners. It makes sense, due to most experiencing problems from forcing lower energy upwards.

 

...

 

Goldisheavy,

 

I agree with you. This is it. For those who feel the need to practice this stuff, it's good to keep that in mind.

 

...

 

Dwai,

 

Interesting. The book gives a chart which says that 2 hours before sunrise the first chakra is most active, so that is why it's the best time to "work on" apana.

[Inedible]

In order to raise Kundalini, both prana (flowing upward) and apana (flowing downward) pranas must meet in the navel chakra. At least, that is what I read. (Personally I chose to receive Shaktipat.) When they meet they generate heat and this heat is what activates Kundalini.

 

This kind of scheming and plotting mindset has been pointed out as an error by Taoists like Chuang Tzu. Of course no one gives a rats ass about that, because Chuang Tzu is not a kundalini or chi guy, so he's not in style now.

 

Having something to do that seems constructive can get a person to stop doing other things that may be even more disruptive and scheming and plotting. It can often require a technique to make it possible for a person to finally get out of the way. It doesn't even matter if the technique does anything, if it sounds cool and it keeps a student's grubby little paws off of where the real action is going on. If you knew how many times I kept asking my teacher "But what do I do ... ?" you'd be impressed that he didn't resort to hitting me. He kept saying that spiritual growth is like puberty, in that you can't force it to happen before it is time. I told him that everyone goes through puberty at a set time, but I didn't think that everyone's time for spiritual growth came and what was to distinguish between my not doing anything and the not doing anything of a person who had never heard of enlightenment? He said it just happened when the time was ready for him. Seriously, though, how do you distinguish between one person's not doing and another person's not doing? Why does one attain wisdom and another stagnate?

[Birch]

Maybe this.

 

From practice, "making energy do things" whether up or down or round about seems to me to be more subtle than many folks would give themselves or the techniques or the teachers credit for. Right now I'm figuring it's (energy work) actually is a transcendent approach because it does a few things all at the same time:

 

- focuses you in to the moment you are in in order to feel (the "X that can be spoken of is not the true X" is absolutely true in this approach)

- suggests you intensify the feeling (just by putting more or longer attention on it, that'll tend to work)

- begs of you to attach something of meaning to that feeling (whether an element or a chakra or a directional current or emptiness or something)

 

The latter actions train you to recognize and transcend a process which "you" naturally "do" the rest of the time, thus opening up the potential for better awareness and choice (notice I can't say "control" ;-) the rest of the time.)

 

Just musing.

[gendao]

Basically the protocol used in the book is to: wake up early, go to the bathroom, work on a chakra (psychological state) through mantra, sit upright in meditation during the time that both nostrils are open, then regulate the flow in the nostril according to the patterns of the moon.

Waking up with the sun (and then eliminating) is actually natural and happens naturally if we are sleeping outdoors.

 

So, I don't really consider this "doing" something...just returning to what we do naturally (before artificial lighting). Staying and waking up late is actually "doing" more.

 

From a medical qigong perspective, dawn is also when atmospheric yang qi is "accelerating" the most...and so the best time to meditate to absorb that purifying yang qi.

[松永道]

Scotty,

 

I'm not familiar with the anatomy of Yoga energetics. Could you please elaborate a bit on the sun and moon channels?

 

Thanks.

 

So I just got the book Microchakras: InnerTuning for Psychological Well-being by Sri Shyamji Bhatnagar. Really nice book, for those interested in Indian systems. What's especially interesting are his views on the spiritual/energetic path. They are totally different than anything I've seen before.

 

What it says summed up is:

• Apana rising in the sun channel gives your blockages (which were mostly formed in the first 3 years of life) more juice, keeping you stuck in lower psychological states.
  
• Energy naturally descends in the sun channel, and rises in the moon channel...apana naturally descends. Bad results come from apana rising in the sun channel.
  
• Opening your chakras in the moon channel negates the blockages in the sun channel, so that kundalini can rise effortlessly. He uses specific mantras for each chakra.
  
• Waking up 2 hours before dawn, to eliminate, is the best way to keep apana from rising.
  
• What we actually want to cultivate in meditation is "surya akasha"...which is the finest of the fine of the elements. Not qi, shen, sex energy, etc.
  
• Keeping the tongue to the roof of the mouth is a good way to keep the surya akasha in the head.
  

Maybe there's more that I forgot. I may add it later.

 

Basically the protocol used in the book is to: wake up early, go to the bathroom, work on a chakra (psychological state) through mantra, sit upright in meditation during the time that both nostrils are open, then regulate the flow in the nostril according to the patterns of the moon.

[Aetherous]

Well I don't know much. But there are 3 main channels, of the supposed 72,000 in the body. The central (sushumna), left (ida/moon) and right (pingala/sun).

 

Some make it look like this.

 

 

And some make the two channels look like a double helix.

 

 

About the 5 pranas...

 

"As a simple summary we could say that Prana governs the intake of substances. Samana governs their digestion. Vyana governs the circulation of nutrients. Udana governs the release of positive energy. Apana governs the elimination of waste-materials."

Edited December 18, 2009 by Scotty

[松永道]

Thanks.

 

In terms of TCM/Daoist Qi anatomy the left and back are yang, the right and front are yin. Yang rises and carries blood/nutritive Qi with it. Yin descends and carries Qi/Defensive Qi.

 

Qi rising or rebelling upwards is an abbreviated term for Qi stagnating or rising up the Yin areas - front and right. Incidentally, one of the common reasons for Qi failing to descend is deficient Kidney/Lower field/Lower Dantian function. Another common cause is emotional stagnation in the Liver network.

 

Very interesting to observe these two systems correspond in important ways.

[Aetherous]

That is very interesting!

[C T]

Hi Scott,

 

I was reading up on toxins and the their effects on the physical/subtle body and ways to eliminate

said poisons, from both the Ayurvedic and TCM perspectives. Found 2 articles that i thought might

interest you, so here they are:

 

http://www.itmonline.org/arts/phlegmmist.htm

 

http://www.naturalhealthweb.com/articles/Patwardhan4.html

 

Hope they can help shed a bit of light on your path!

 

All the best!

[ralis]

All paths based on doing are erroneous. For example, making energy rise up is in error. Making it go down is in error. Purposefully abstaining from involvement is a form of doing, thus is also in error.

 

Basically all forms of manipulation, positive (purposeful involvement) and negative (purposeful non-involvement) are in error. Why? Because the intention behind all positive and negative manipulation is to enact some kind of desired final state. The problem lies in the belief that there is such a thing as a "final state". As long as you believe it, you'll always try to attain it and your life will be one of laborious difficulty and ignorance. You'll fall prey to cults, to various money grabbing gurus, become a sex slave, or worse. In the best case scenario you'll just waste your time feeling unfulfilled, chasing the next big dream.

 

This kind of scheming and plotting mindset has been pointed out as an error by Taoists like Chuang Tzu. Of course no one gives a rats ass about that, because Chuang Tzu is not a kundalini or chi guy, so he's not in style now.

 

I guess one does nothing except sit around and do nothing! My Mexican friends have a word for that (punetas).

 

ralis

[Aetherous]

Thanks CowTao,

 

I especially liked the second article, which agrees with what I think: drinking homemade chai is awesome!

[goldisheavy]

I guess one does nothing except sit around and do nothing! My Mexican friends have a word for that (punetas).

 

ralis

 

I specifically mentioned "doing nothing" as one type of doing.

[Birch]

Well I don't know much. But there are 3 main channels, of the supposed 72,000 in the body. The central (sushumna), left (ida/moon) and right (pingala/sun).

 

Some make it look like this.

 

 

And some make the two channels look like a double helix.

 

 

About the 5 pranas...

 

"As a simple summary we could say that Prana governs the intake of substances. Samana governs their digestion. Vyana governs the circulation of nutrients. Udana governs the release of positive energy. Apana governs the elimination of waste-materials."

 

Yep, the second image was more the way I initially figured things before learning more. Cool stuff.

[Guest paul walter]

All paths based on doing are erroneous. For example, making energy rise up is in error. Making it go down is in error. Purposefully abstaining from involvement is a form of doing, thus is also in error.

 

Basically all forms of manipulation, positive (purposeful involvement) and negative (purposeful non-involvement) are in error. Why? Because the intention behind all positive and negative manipulation is to enact some kind of desired final state. The problem lies in the belief that there is such a thing as a "final state". As long as you believe it, you'll always try to attain it and your life will be one of laborious difficulty and ignorance. You'll fall prey to cults, to various money grabbing gurus, become a sex slave, or worse. In the best case scenario you'll just waste your time feeling unfulfilled, chasing the next big dream.

 

This kind of scheming and plotting mindset has been pointed out as an error by Taoists like Chuang Tzu. Of course no one gives a rats ass about that, because Chuang Tzu is not a kundalini or chi guy, so he's not in style now.

 

 

Yes, I notice it more and more myself. GIH how does one practice this non-invasive practice?

[goldisheavy]

Yes, I notice it more and more myself. GIH how does one practice this non-invasive practice?

 

You can't practice it. You can't fail to practice it. All you have to do is reflect on the perfection of wisdom every day and the mind (and all that follows from it, such as conduct, thoughts, feelings, world-appearance and so on) transforms over time. Actually it's not that hard at all. You are doing it right now.

[Aetherous]

[taooneusa]

 

sun and moon is vagus

 

Ganglia

some soviet site have more accurate charts and one or two spanish/mexican site

Edited January 2, 2012 by taooneusa

[Gerard]

Basically all forms of manipulation, positive (purposeful involvement) and negative (purposeful non-involvement) are in error. Why? Because the intention behind all positive and negative manipulation is to enact some kind of desired final state.

 

+1

 

Let's get back to the basics:

 

Insight meditation. Watch the wanderings of your mind and meditate many hours a day and many days in a row. Focus, focus, focus, observe all the mental phenomena and you'll fall into jhana.

 

It is painful and it will test you to the limits, but the goodies it delivers are there.

 

Work preferably with a teacher because dealing with the subtleties of the mind ain't easy, and a teacher has gone through all of that and will help you when you get stuck.

 

If you can't access a teacher, ask here:

 

http://www.dharmaoverground.org/web/guest/discussion

 

The wiki contains all the answer from the beginner stage to mastery (arahantship):

 

http://www.dharmaoverground.org/web/guest/dharma-wiki/-/wiki/Main/FrontPage?p_r_p_185834411_title=FrontPage#section-FrontPage-TheMapsOfMeditation

 

 

There are many other freestyle methods out there if very formal sitting meditation practice is not your "forte."

 

Dzogchen (as in remaining present to everything at all times and seeing the perfection in everything that exists), Walking the circle for hours, 40 days fast, Zhan Zhuang for extended periods of time, etc. all work

 

Here's a Buddhist alternative hardcore site that sells a very interesting e-book for less than 10 bucks:

 

http://www.buddhabrats.com/buddha-brats/the-book/about/

 

 

BUT, manipulating energy to achieve a goal...only inflates the EGO and nourishes the thirst for POWER. I'd look elsewhere if I were you.

 

All the best.