Healing Sounds

[wishface]

I learned some healing sounds (Return of the Urban Warrior by the Barefoot Doctor aka Stephen Russell).

 

But are they correct? Are there different sounds from different traditions; from what i've seen/read there are different sounds.

[goldisheavy]

What matters is not the pitch of the sound but the intention behind it. And what matters is wisdom that's behind your intention. If you're a fool, your intention will have limited impact, because you'll have many beliefs that will sabotage your intention. If you're wise, your intention will have more power. If you understand this, then you can make use of anything for healing: sound, touch, random coincidences, dirt, smells, anything at all. You could even heal the person by taking a crap on them.

[wishface]

What matters is not the pitch of the sound but the intention behind it. And what matters is wisdom that's behind your intention. If you're a fool, your intention will have limited impact, because you'll have many beliefs that will sabotage your intention. If you're wise, your intention will have more power. If you understand this, then you can make use of anything for healing: sound, touch, random coincidences, dirt, smells, anything at all. You could even heal the person by taking a crap on them.

 

Let's assume im not a fool, otherwise discussion becomes needlessly awkward.

 

It's not the pitch I'm questioning, but the actual sound itself.

[voidisyinyang]

http://baharna.com/chant/six_healing.htm

 

This is an interesting article on the Taoist healing sounds pointing that there are differences.

 

My philosophy is based on sound healing -- the concept of "pitch" is subjective. In fact even "frequency" is a Western concept.

 

I discovered that yang is the ratio 2:3 -- Perfect 5th music interval and yin is the ratio 3:4 as the Perfect 4th. These ratios are Pythagorean but violate the commutative property, which means there's no symmetric correspondence with an axiomatic math system (frequency).

 

So the pitch resonates as complementary opposites infinitely -- you can hear this say in blues music -- how there's a basic 1-4-5 tension -- the three main chords also in rock and in fact ALL music in all cultures.

 

Only Western music uses logarithmic ratios which goes against the natural resonance of the Pythagorean Tetrad ratios -- of yang and yin 1:2:3:4. My blog book "Deep Disharmony" gives further details -- you can find it on my blog http://naturalresonancerevolution.blogspot.com

 

Essentially the japa or repetition of a mantra is considered an initial stage of practice. Then the japa becomes internal -- which means that the sound mantra continues subconsciously on its own. Then you reach "Omkara" -- which is when the heart chakra opens up fully -- the sound resonates into ultrasound. We can hear ultrasound but only WITHIN our head. That's the basic principle of my music model for meditation.

 

So the intention is actually to listen to the source of sound which is pure consciousness itself which then creates light and bends spacetime. The light as laser energy intensifies to create matter through electromagnetic or chi energy. This cycle is infinite and we exist within it -- so no one is listening. Listening is the alchemical process itself.

 

The small universe is 12 notes along the outside of the body -- so it's the 12 notes of the music scale as alchemy of the 2:3:4 ratios -- yang and yin -- called the "circle of fifths" in music but it's actually an infinite spiral of fifths.

 

Let's assume im not a fool, otherwise discussion becomes needlessly awkward.

 

It's not the pitch I'm questioning, but the actual sound itself.

[fiveelementtao]

Let's assume im not a fool, otherwise discussion becomes needlessly awkward.

 

It's not the pitch I'm questioning, but the actual sound itself.

 

1500 years ago, according to Tao Hong Jing. (first person to write about the healing sounds) the original way of practicing the healing sounds is completely silently. He called them the six healing breaths. You think the sounds in your mind and exhale the breath as though you were going to make the sounds but allow your breath to escape very slowly so that no actual sounds escape. I have found this to be the most powerful way to do the six healing sounds...

[wishface]

1500 years ago, according to Tao Hong Jing. (first person to write about the healing sounds) the original way of practicing the healing sounds is completely silently. He called them the six healing breaths. You think the sounds in your mind and exhale the breath as though you were going to make the sounds but allow your breath to escape very slowly so that no actual sounds escape. I have found this to be the most powerful way to do the six healing sounds...

no, again you misunderstand, I'm talking about the individual sounds:

 

Liver = shhhh

Kidney = fuiiiiiiii

heart = haaaaaa

spleen = huuuuuuuu

lungs = sssssssss

overall body = shiiiiiiii

[fiveelementtao]

[wishface]

With respect, I do not misunderstand... I know exactly what you are talking about. I first learned them as sounds also, but after doing some research and learning them again from a Shang Ch'ing Tao Master, I discovered that these six "sounds" were originally taught to be silent breaths. In other words, do those same sounds but as very soft whisper with the breath so soft that no sound comes out. These six healing sounds were originally called Liu Zi Jue which means six healing breaths. They are now widely taught as voiced sounds, but originally they were breaths... They are still very healing if voiced, though... Each one of these breaths works with the five elements also... Liver - Wood, Heart-Fire, Spleen- Earth, Lungs-metal, Kidney - Water, Overall body (triple warmer)... This is the best order for health and preparation for meditation or exercise...

These sounds were first written about by a Shang Ch'ing Tao Master named Tao Hong Jing who lived in the 5th century A.D....

His writings on these sounds are easily obtained, if you read the original text, it explains how to perform these breaths. I have it on my computer somewhere... Let's see if I can find it...

found it... here's a few quotes. the first is from Master Tao Hong Jing... the next is another teacher's explanation of how to perform the breaths...

those are different sounds. So am i doing the correct sounds? An acceptable variant from another tradition? Or something completely wrong? No one recognises the sounds I describe?

[Pero]

those are different sounds. So am i doing the correct sounds? An acceptable variant from another tradition? Or something completely wrong? No one recognises the sounds I describe?

 

There are different sounds from different teachers. Doesn't necessarily mean some are wrong and some are right. However, I think it's best to choose the one that suits you most and then stick with that system and not mix different ones. With repetition of the sounds you can gain their function. Intention is important too.

[goldisheavy]

Let's assume im not a fool, otherwise discussion becomes needlessly awkward.

 

It's not the pitch I'm questioning, but the actual sound itself.

 

Do you understand the meaning of actions? If yes, your question is gone. If not, you're wasting time probing sound, when you need to focus your energies in a more higher order way. Namely, instead of investigating the meaning of some sound, investigate the meaning of any action. This will give you the keys to all actions, including sounds, but not limited to them. On the other hand, if you make your thinking very concrete, and limit it to one sound, you'll just be wallowing in your belief networks without understanding what's going on. You'll be caught in your own dream, without knowing that it is a dream and without learning how to dream.

 

For example, what causes disease? Next time you get a flu, contemplate it. If you never get sick, you should get sick on purpose, so that you can contemplate sickness. Once you understand sickness you'll begin to understand healing too. When you understand healing at a high level, you can understand all forms of healing naturally. On the other hand, if you apply some technique in a detail oriented way, you'll never understand anything.

 

One more example. If I give you a recipe for soup, and you follow my recipe to a T, you'll never become a chef. Even if follow 10000 recipes, you still do not OWN the cooking processes. You don't own the meaning of food processing. You don't own flavors. You don't own flavor combination vision. A real chef own all of the above. This is why a real chef doesn't worry about recipes. Instead one focuses on higher order concerns: what does heat treatment do to ingredients? What does smoke do to them? What does moisture or dryness do? What flavors are there? How do these flavors combine? What happens to nutritional value during processing? Once you understand this, you can make your own recipe and you can alter anyone's recipe in a competent manner. You'll own cooking. If you follow a recipe you rent cooking.

 

Rent a place to live or build a place to live to own it. See the difference?

 

I'm saying all this assuming you're wise. But if you're a fool I've wasted my time.

Edited December 18, 2009 by goldisheavy

[goldisheavy]

This story is relevant for the correct sound:

 

The True Sound of Truth

 

An old story speaks about a similar problem. A devoted meditator, after years concentrating on a particular mantra, had attained enough insight to begin teaching. The student's humility was far from perfect, but the teachers at the monastery were not worried.

 

A few years of successful teaching left the meditator with no thoughts about learning from anyone; but upon hearing about a famous hermit living nearby, the opportunity was too exciting to be passed up.

 

The hermit lived alone on an island at the middle of a lake, so the meditator hired a man with a boat to row across to the island. The meditator was very respectful of the old hermit. As they shared some tea made with herbs the meditator asked him about his spiritual practice. The old man said he had no spiritual practice, except for a mantra which he repeated all the time to himself. The meditator was pleased: the hermit was using the same mantra he used himself -- but when the hermit spoke the mantra aloud, the meditator was horrified!

 

"What's wrong?" asked the hermit.

 

"I don't know what to say. I'm afraid you've wasted your whole life! You are pronouncing the mantra incorrectly!"

 

"Oh, Dear! That is terrible. How should I say it?"

 

The meditator gave the correct pronunciation, and the old hermit was very grateful, asking to be left alone so he could get started right away. On the way back across the lake the meditator, now confirmed as an accomplished teacher, was pondering the sad fate of the hermit.

 

"It's so fortunate that I came along. At least he will have a little time to practice correctly before he dies." Just then, the meditator noticed that the boatman was looking quite shocked, and turned to see the hermit standing respectfully on the water, next to the boat.

 

"Excuse me, please. I hate to bother you, but I've forgotten the correct pronunciation again. Would you please repeat it for me?"

 

"You obviously don't need it," stammered the meditator; but the old man persisted in his polite request until the meditator relented and told him again the way he thought the mantra should be pronounced.

 

The old hermit was saying the mantra very carefully, slowly, over and over, as he walked across the surface of the water back to the island.

 

This applies to healing sounds too.

[fiveelementtao]

those are different sounds. So am i doing the correct sounds? An acceptable variant from another tradition? Or something completely wrong? No one recognises the sounds I describe?

No. They are the same sounds. There are different variations of those sounds based on the dialect that is spoken. I always prefer to use the original. But, if you have a teacher, follow their advice. I think at this point, you may be overthinking the process. You don't have to get it perfect immediately. Do the best you can, listen to the energy and experiment. You will find what works best for you...

As always, I suggest finding a teacher to guide you....

Edited December 18, 2009 by fiveelementtao

[Spectrum]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Phase-----Wood------Fire---------Earth----------Metal------Water-----------N/A

Organ---Liver/BG--Heart/SI--Spln/Stomach--Lungs/LI--Kidneys/Bldr--Trpl Brnr

Emo------Anger -----Joy--------Brooding-------Sorrow-----Fear------------N/A

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Chia 3Shhhhhh 4Hawwwww 5Whooooooooo 1Sssssss 2blwoutcndle 6Heeeeeee

 

Cohen 3SH------4Ho(hook)----5Hooo(who)--1See-ahh-2Chrroooeee-6Seeeeeee

 

Dantao 1Xu(Shew)--2Ho-----------3Fu---------4Xi(see)------5Chu------6Hey

 

Davis 3Shoo------4Khe-----------6Hoo--------1Shhh------2Chway-----5Ssssssss

 

Olson 1Shoo------2Haa-----------3Hoo---------4Sss--------5Foo--------6Shee

 

Ni------4Shu---------1Ho------------2Hu----------3Szz--------6Fu---------5Shi (GB)

 

Reid --1Shoo-------2Herrr---------3Hoo(who)---4Sss------5Chway------6Shee

 

 

Pir Vilyat Khan

Crown- EE

Head- EE

Thrt- OO

Chest- Ah

SlrPlx-Oh

 

Johnathan Goldman

Crown- EEE

Head- AYE

Throat-EYE

Chest- AH

SlrPlx-OH

Sacral-OOO

Root- UH

 

Kay Gardner

Crown- EEE

Head- IH

Throat-EH

Chest- AH

SlrPlx-AW

Sacral-OH

Root- OOO

 

Randall Mcclellan

Crown- MMM

Head- EEE

Throat-AYE

Chest- AH

SlrPlx-OH

Sacral-OOO

Root- OOO

 

Peter Michael Hamel

Crown- EEE

Head- EEE

Throat-EH

Chest- AH

SlrPlx-OH

Sacral-UH

Root- UH

[wishface]

No. They are the same sounds. There are different variations of those sounds based on the dialect that is spoken. I always prefer to use the original. But, if you have a teacher, follow their advice. I think at this point, you may be overthinking the process. You don't have to get it perfect immediately. Do the best you can, listen to the energy and experiment. You will find what works best for you...

As always, I suggest finding a teacher to guide you....

my attempts to find a teacher have met with no success and the thread i started specifically for that purpose got no responses.

 

Do you have any suggestions? Obviously i would like to find one, but i don't live in rural china.

[fiveelementtao]

my attempts to find a teacher have met with no success and the thread i started specifically for that purpose got no responses.

 

Do you have any suggestions? Obviously i would like to find one, but i don't live in rural china.

 

Yes, I do have a suggestion. In meditation or prayer... state your desire to find the teacher that you are meant to learn from. You don't have to go to rural china. there are teachers everywhere. For the time being, you can use books, videos etc... If you live in or near a good size city, look for them over the internet.

Start a thread here saying... "anyone in my city know of any teachers?" you will get many responses..

You can go on to youtube and type in "six healing sounds" you will find many versions of them being demonstrated for you...

Teachers are all around... Be willing to do whatever it takes to learn and you will find the means...

[Kameel]

What matters is not the pitch of the sound but the intention behind it. And what matters is wisdom that's behind your intention. If you're a fool, your intention will have limited impact, because you'll have many beliefs that will sabotage your intention. If you're wise, your intention will have more power. If you understand this, then you can make use of anything for healing: sound, touch, random coincidences, dirt, smells, anything at all. You could even heal the person by taking a crap on them.

Hmm...poop therapy. Well Valentine Greatrakes healed blind people by spitting in their eyes, so maybe yr on to something. Besides, getting crapped on can teach you about many things, including how you got there in the first place.

[wishface]

Yes, I do have a suggestion. In meditation or prayer... state your desire to find the teacher that you are meant to learn from. You don't have to go to rural china. there are teachers everywhere. For the time being, you can use books, videos etc... If you live in or near a good size city, look for them over the internet.

Start a thread here saying... "anyone in my city know of any teachers?" you will get many responses..

You can go on to youtube and type in "six healing sounds" you will find many versions of them being demonstrated for you...

Teachers are all around... Be willing to do whatever it takes to learn and you will find the means...

That's what i did.

 

Are books/videos an adequate teacher? In my experience (of trying to learn tai chi) they aren't because the teacher isn't able to convey what he teachers through the medium of a book.

 

I've seen some of mantak chia's stuff, but it always comes with a huge proviso saying 'don't try this at home'.

It's also not the easiest to follow which means i'm reluctant to try it given those two factors.

 

I don't know of any good books for beginners or even books that are fairly comprehensive that are thus suitable.

[voidisyinyang]

The most direct practice that doesn't require a teacher is the mind yoga of self-enquiry. You just repeat "I-I-I" over and over until it congeals into one "I" thought and then you LISTEN to the source of the I-thought. If you need to focus on your body then focus on the right side of the heart as the left brain vagus nerve goes there. This is called the "direct path" and is the left-brain version of what is otherwise right-brain yoga (microcosmic orbit or body positions, etc.)

 

Also you'd want to be vegetarian because that enables your mind to focus better. But the "I-thought" practice gently guides the mind -- the goal is also the path of the practice. It's direct and simple. Still the mind on its own is weak - but the I-thought is the basis for all other thoughts. It's not just a concept -- logical inference of the I-thought leds to the experience of direct consciousness which then creates light, bending spacetime.

 

Any experience you have -- just ask "who is having this experience" and then repeat the I-thought to focus the mind on the source of thoughts. Then listen to the source of the I-thought.

 

If you want to read up more on this -- there's David Godman's books -- his biography of Poonjaji is amazing and the root teacher is Ramana Maharshi.

 

That's what i did.

 

Are books/videos an adequate teacher? In my experience (of trying to learn tai chi) they aren't because the teacher isn't able to convey what he teachers through the medium of a book.

 

I've seen some of mantak chia's stuff, but it always comes with a huge proviso saying 'don't try this at home'.

It's also not the easiest to follow which means i'm reluctant to try it given those two factors.

 

I don't know of any good books for beginners or even books that are fairly comprehensive that are thus suitable.

[Spectrum]

I've provided a list in which you can compare your sounds.

 

There seems to be a difference between organ and cavity sounds.

 

Chi Gung; the art of tuning all pitches complimentary to the human organism.

[fiveelementtao]

That's what i did.

 

Are books/videos an adequate teacher? In my experience (of trying to learn tai chi) they aren't because the teacher isn't able to convey what he teachers through the medium of a book.

 

I've seen some of mantak chia's stuff, but it always comes with a huge proviso saying 'don't try this at home'.

It's also not the easiest to follow which means i'm reluctant to try it given those two factors.

 

I don't know of any good books for beginners or even books that are fairly comprehensive that are thus suitable.

 

Try Spring forest qigong. It is inexpensive. People like it. I have a DVD on my website. If you truly want to find a teacher you will. How serious are you? What REALLY is the obstacle to finding a teacher. Is it money? What city do you live in? I am certain I could type in your city and find something. Do you have a car? Can you travel? Do you have transportation?.. What is the real issue here? If it is just that you are a teenager and it is inconvenient, I understand, You may just have to be patient and save up some money and use this time to research who you want to train with.

My original suggestion still stands... In prayer or meditation ask that you be guided to the teacher you are meant to train with... Listen and follow your instincts... As a teacher, I would say this is your first lesson. Follow your inner voice, listen to your guides...

[goldisheavy]

Hmm...poop therapy. Well Valentine Greatrakes healed blind people by spitting in their eyes, so maybe yr on to something. Besides, getting crapped on can teach you about many things, including how you got there in the first place.

 

I've read about siddhas healing by putting bandages on the ailing parts (just simple bandages with nothing in them). Leaves. Ash. Hitting the ailing part, or otherwise causing some pain to the ailing person. That's just a tiny taste of possibilities. Anything is possible. You can put a keyboard on someone to heal them. What matters is what's in your deepest heartmind and not what you do outwardly. At least, all the healing that's based on mind works like that.

 

Alternatively you have materialism. According to materialism the body is a machine and if it breaks you must fix it like you do a machine, and sounds just won't help. Can you fix your car by singing a tune, if you're a materialist? No, you cannot. But I've heard of wondering sorcerers fixing cars by hitting them with a walking stick. How does this work? Obviously from a materialistic standpoint that's nonsense. But if you understand that the car is an emanation of mind, you can heal it with an apparently nonsensical action, if that action's meaning is honestly and deeply significant in your mind.

 

The point is this... if you're a materialist, forget songs. You need to learn how real medicine works at a real college of medicine. Then do an internship for 5-10 years, and then you'll be a real doctor.

 

On the other hand, if your mind is open to sounds as methods of healing, you have to understand how this works. If you quibble over which sound is the right sound, you're still using the wrong mindset for this approach, the kind of mindset that's much better suited by a college degree than by shamanic learning.

Edited December 19, 2009 by goldisheavy

[wishface]

[fiveelementtao]

[soaring crane]

I don't live in a city. I've already mentioned where I live. North Somerset UK. If you can find a teacher there then well done. I have searched myself and haven't been able to find anything.

 

Frustration creeping in?

 

I attended a weekend seminar based around the six healing sounds. It was quite a while ago. Every participant had his or her (actually, 90% her), own "accent" and nobody sounded exactly like the instructor, and that was okie dokie. Nobody's spleen works exaclty like his, either.

 

What I'm saying is, you can learn the sounds easily from a CD or youtube video. What's important is the intention of each sound. They are for cleansing and strengthening the specific organs and mimic what that organ would sound like if it were speaking. So, it's important to really focus on that particular organ, and educate yourself on its function and relation to the rest of the system. Without that, I'm not sure, I don't think the practice is so effective. Your liver doesn't automatically know it 's supposed to pretend to be a steaming tea kettle when you go "shhhh"....

 

Also, performing a specific gymnastic to activate the organ in harmony with the sound is helpful, but not necessary. Actually, I'd say that the experience is more intense for me when I do it sitting on a chair, although I haven't done this in quite a while. Honestly, I never really felt the cleansing effects of the six sounds as intensley as other people report.

 

What I do more often, and very often while driving my car, is hum/chant the vowel sounds, in non-standard order, except that I use the German vowels (a,o, u, e, i in German = ahhh, ohhhh, uuuuuu, a, eeeee, the "a" sound is exactly the english letter "a" just extend it, I wasn't sure how to "spell" it longer) which work better than the English versions. It's very easy and kick-starts a nice healing vibration in the whole body, right down into the bone marrow. I do each seperately for a few reps and then the whole chain in one breath, finishing with an "mmmmm" or, better, "nnnggggg" sound until the breath gradually, and gently (don't hyperventilate) fades out. Draw another deep breath and start over.

 

It's really a chakric exercise that I learned many many moons ago at some new age festival, but I focus on more Qigong relative regions, and have more of a Qigong intention while chanting. I developed (or stumbled onto) a simple arm movement to go along with it which represents first planting your roots deep in the earth and then your tree grows up and spreads its limbs outward and upward. A nice way to slide into a standing session.

 

The form of the mouth is important. You have to exaggerate it so the sounds can come from deeper down, you push the air up from the lowest point you can reach. It's not like talking.

 

hmm, I guess I could make a short video and post it.

Edited December 19, 2009 by soaring crane