celibacy and body changes

[mjjbecker]

[Non]

In spirituality, virtue, rather than celibacy is what is important. Go and study your sufi masters. Abstaining from sex is one path, but that does not mean it is the only, or the best path. Different people follow different paths.

 

To be chaste is not just about sex, but about the purity of the intent. A frustrated virgin, a person who desires sex, or simply a 'pervert' who sits in McDonald's getting their jollies with the staff and other customers, still functions from their desires.

 

Virtue.

 

As for the original purpose of this thread, this topic has been discussed before, and 'dao zhen' posted about the process:

 

http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?showtopic=5395&h

 

By 'dao zhen'

Different racial groups are susceptible to different physiological conditions.

 

 

Yes but, I think there is something to the importance placed on the semen and the sublimation of sexual energies, including the experience of it, or to just find a way to discover and experience sexuality to the fullest, including to realize it's sacredness. To be able to separate orgasmic pulsation, and ejaculation.

 

And one thing is for sure... that the abuse of sexuality can hinder one's spiritual progress. It is also about virtuosity, but also biological. And well, perhaps there's also an element of "what if I practice semen retention, what kind of extraordinary things can I find useful with it?"

Edited December 20, 2009 by Non

[mjjbecker]

Yes but, I think there is something to the importance placed on the semen and the sublimation of sexual energies, including the experience of it, or to just find a way to discover and experience sexuality to the fullest, including to realize it's sacredness. To be able to separate orgasmic pulsation, and ejaculation.

 

And one thing is for sure... that the abuse of sexuality can hinder one's spiritual progress. It is also about virtuosity, but also biological. And well, perhaps there's also an element of "what if I practice semen retention, what kind of extraordinary things can I find useful with it?"

 

Different people will find themselves drawn to different methods. Nothing wrong with that at all. Whatever works.

 

The point is this. Some paths follow different methods, and they are in no way inferior. 'Energy work' using qigong is one way, but it is not the only, or the 'ultimate'.

 

You don't have to follow retention, do qigong, etc. There are other ways.

[ngtest]

Pietro,

 

What you ask is a stage of cultivation which is described in detail in Master Nan Huai Chin's book Tao and Longevity. see page 58 specifically but there are also other many other pages describing it. I think this book is going to help you.

 

A short excerpt:

 

"After advancing further, the breath moving through the mouth and nose as well as the inner breath will stop completely. The genital organs and testicles of a man will retract tightly like a baby's. This initial phenomenon, known as "a retractable penis like that of a horse" is one of the thirty two signs of a Buddha. At this stage, either overeating or going on a fast by swallowing air does not make any difference, since one has achieved the first step of samadhi. However, there is still a long way to go before one attains the real opening of Tu Mai and Jen Mai, true samadhi, and the stage beyond man and heaven."

[宁]

So then really, what do you refer to as "sexual energy"? Orgasmic pulsation? Or "sexual intercourse"....

So then.. the pleasurable feeling that you get from a morning wood, is it orgasmic energy, or is it SEXUAL energy (which is always about intercourse), or is sexual energy more than that?

 

I didn't say 'morning wood' isn't pleasurable, did I?

I'm not trying to convince anybody. Who got it, got it, and that's it. After all, it's about personal research, putting time into practice and study.

But think about this: there are some taoist masters that say there are 1001 uses for sexual energy, and we know only 2 of them: having sex and making babies.

 

Sexual energy is the most conditioned energy by our mindset, culture and society. There's nothing natural about what we are doing with it now. Initially you can consider sexual gongfu as a means by which one learns about the initial/original posibilities of sexual energy.

 

But it's not mandatory, as someone here said... different people need/want different things...

 

Yet, regarding the highest of achievements, whenever I looked into other traditions, wherever you go on this planet, there are regulations imposed on sexual energy... either by society or religion, or by the mystic paths.

For example, in nagualism, sexual energy is considered this way: it has been given to us for two distinct purposes - to perpetuate consciousness (by having babies) OR to enhance our own consciousness (by growing our inner spirit)...

That's why for me this subject is very important, and it has too little to do with making love. It has to do with fuelling your cultivation.

[Pietro]

Ionization works through the FEMALE climax -- the vagus nerve -- while male sex (ejaculation) increases STRESS -- the sympathetic nervous system. This is detailed by Professor Robert Sapolsky's books -- MonkeyLuv and Trouble with Testosterone.

 

http://endo.endojournals.org/cgi/content/a...endo;143/7/2534

 

Thanks Drew, I have read the paper.

I got a few things from it. But the main is that female, in some parts of their cycle are better equipped to deal with stress. In tho other part of the cycle (post-estrous) they essentially react like male.

 

But this has nothing to do with climax. Those rats were not climaxing. Nor where they sexually stimulated. So I seem to miss how can you claim that:

 

Ionization works through the FEMALE climax -- the vagus nerve -- while male sex (ejaculation) increases STRESS -- the sympathetic nervous system. This is detailed by Professor Robert Sapolsky's books -- MonkeyLuv and Trouble with Testosterone.

 

http://endo.endojournals.org/cgi/content/a...endo;143/7/2534

 

Should I find that in the Sapolsky's book?

 

Or is ionization something totally different from this stress management? I ask this because you seem to keep on refering to this "ionization", but as I mentioned before I don't know what you are speaking about. Thanks, Pietro

 

Btw, very appreciated the reference to a proposer academic paper.

 

Yin and Yang and the ability to read below the surface.

Have you experienced this yourself? If not, be quiet and don't give an opinion about a matter that you ignore.

 

Thanks durkhrod,

I think from the context was very clear that Vortex was quoting a book, to help me realize that the book does indeed speak about those changes. Since my question was indirect (I was not asking what is that..., rather where can I find information on...) his effort has in fact made me realize that I do need to recover that book.

 

Uhm, I get a morning wood because I need to urinate ...

I think this is incorrect. I am not convinced that you have morning wood because you need to urinate. When you are young you might feel so, but when you get older you start to feel periods where you do not have morning wood at all, but you do feel the need to urinate in the morning nevertheless, and then the two elements become separated.

 

Uhm, I get a morning wood because I need to urinate ...

I think this is incorrect. I am not convinced that you have morning wood because you need to urinate. When you are young you might feel so, but when you get older you start to feel periods where you do not have morning wood at all, but you do feel the need to urinate in the morning nevertheless, and then the two elements become separated.

 

Pietro,

 

What you ask is a stage of cultivation which is described in detail in Master Nan Huai Chin's book Tao and Longevity. see page 58 specifically but there are also other many other pages describing it. I think this book is going to help you.

 

A short excerpt:

 

"After advancing further, the breath moving through the mouth and nose as well as the inner breath will stop completely. The genital organs and testicles of a man will retract tightly like a baby's. This initial phenomenon, known as "a retractable penis like that of a horse" is one of the thirty two signs of a Buddha. At this stage, either overeating or going on a fast by swallowing air does not make any difference, since one has achieved the first step of samadhi. However, there is still a long way to go before one attains the real opening of Tu Mai and Jen Mai, true samadhi, and the stage beyond man and heaven."

 

Thanks. I'll look into it.

 

Thomas of Aquino is said to have asked God: please make me a chaste person, but not now.

 

 

:-)

make me celibate... but not yet :-)

 

wasn't that S.Agostino?

[宁]

I think this is incorrect. I am not convinced that you have morning wood because you need to urinate. When you are young you might feel so, but when you get older you start to feel periods where you do not have morning wood at all, but you do feel the need to urinate in the morning nevertheless, and then the two elements become separated.

 

...

 

wasn't that S.Agostino?

 

my bad, S.Agostino indeed...

sometimes i think RJ is pretty on the spot when he says if we haven't tamed the white tiger, we can't hope for very much...

 

re morning wood, it's because during the night the body produces sexual hormones...

 

in the first period of the night, from 22:00 to 01:00, there is the producing of the melatonine hormone.

in the second period of the night, from 01:00 to 03:00 there is the production of sexual hormones.

in the third period, from 03:00 to 05:00 it's when the miracle happens - pinoline...

 

our bodies work this alchemy daily

[frp]

[voidisyinyang]

Edited December 20, 2009 by drewhempel

[宁]

[bindo]

[voidisyinyang]

It's just like when you have to shit so bad that your ass cramps up. Obviously you can piss when it's hard so your mind relaxes the dick and then the piss comes out. Same with the shit coming out the ass. haha.

 

Never heard of "piss hard". How can you piss and have wood at the same time? doesn't make sense.

[bindo]

It's just like when you have to shit so bad that your ass cramps up. Obviously you can piss when it's hard so your mind relaxes the dick and then the piss comes out. Same with the shit coming out the ass. haha.

Drew, could you explain it without all the technical mumbo jumbo, please?

[That Guy]

You'd think things would get bigger down there with all that energy thats supposedly building up in that area

 

And i think morning wood + piss = mess

[gendao]

I think from the context was very clear that Vortex was quoting a book, to help me realize that the book does indeed speak about those changes. Since my question was indirect (I was not asking what is that..., rather where can I find information on...) his effort has in fact made me realize that I do need to recover that book.

Exactly.

 

I think morning wood is a fair, similar example - because it can happen without any sexual thoughts at all.

And it has nothing to do with urination - otherwise we would all get boners throughout the day every time we needed to pee!

-----

Another thing is that I don't believe prenatal jing is really "sexual" energy, per se. "Sexual" is such a loaded, constrictive label. When that energy is really just "lifeforce."

 

Now, that lifeforce may have been passed down to us through our parents having sex.

And it could be used to create and passed down to our kids through sex.

Or...it could simply be diverted back to ourselves to reinvigorate and fuel our own spiritual growth.

 

So, IMO - this jing is not really "sexual" to begin with - but that is just one route that it could take. Or not.

 

I realize this is a semantic distinction...but I think it colors the way people view it. Point being that prenatal jing is not solely designated for sex & procreation. Yes, that is a very popular and primary usage...but not the only one. And until it gets used in that manner, it's not really "sexual" yet.

-----

Anyhow, if you wanna read some real funny sh*t about...sh*tting & pissing hard...lol - read this (could be fake, but still funny as hell!).

[voidisyinyang]

The jing comes from the qi in the kidneys -- so the whole "sexual" thing is part of the Western idiocy. Kidneys are the internal reproductive organs by the traditional Taoist scheme.

 

Exactly.

 

I think morning wood is a fair, similar example - because it can happen without any sexual thoughts at all.

And it has nothing to do with urination - otherwise we would all get boners throughout the day every time we needed to pee!

-----

Another thing is that I don't believe prenatal jing is really "sexual" energy, per se. "Sexual" is such a loaded, constrictive label. When that energy is really just "lifeforce."

 

Now, that lifeforce may have been passed down to us through our parents having sex.

And it could be used to create and passed down to our kids through sex.

Or...it could simply be diverted back to ourselves to reinvigorate and fuel our own spiritual growth.

 

So, IMO - this jing is not really "sexual" to begin with - but that is just one route that it could take. Or not.

 

I realize this is a semantic distinction...but I think it colors the way people view it. Point being that prenatal jing is not solely designated for sex & procreation. Yes, that is a very popular and primary usage...but not the only one. And until it gets used in that manner, it's not really "sexual" yet.

-----

Anyhow, if you wanna read some real funny sh*t about...sh*tting & pissing hard...lol - read this (could be fake, but still funny as hell!).

[宁]

I think morning wood is a fair, similar example - because it can happen without any sexual thoughts at all.

...

Another thing is that I don't believe prenatal jing is really "sexual" energy, per se. "Sexual" is such a loaded, constrictive label. When that energy is really just "lifeforce."

 

I very much agree!

[Non]

Thanks Drew, I have read the paper.

I got a few things from it. But the main is that female, in some parts of their cycle are better equipped to deal with stress. In tho other part of the cycle (post-estrous) they essentially react like male.

 

But this has nothing to do with climax. Those rats were not climaxing. Nor where they sexually stimulated. So I seem to miss how can you claim that:

Should I find that in the Sapolsky's book?

 

Or is ionization something totally different from this stress management? I ask this because you seem to keep on refering to this "ionization", but as I mentioned before I don't know what you are speaking about. Thanks, Pietro

 

Btw, very appreciated the reference to a proposer academic paper.

Thanks durkhrod,

I think from the context was very clear that Vortex was quoting a book, to help me realize that the book does indeed speak about those changes. Since my question was indirect (I was not asking what is that..., rather where can I find information on...) his effort has in fact made me realize that I do need to recover that book.

I think this is incorrect. I am not convinced that you have morning wood because you need to urinate. When you are young you might feel so, but when you get older you start to feel periods where you do not have morning wood at all, but you do feel the need to urinate in the morning nevertheless, and then the two elements become separated.

I think this is incorrect. I am not convinced that you have morning wood because you need to urinate. When you are young you might feel so, but when you get older you start to feel periods where you do not have morning wood at all, but you do feel the need to urinate in the morning nevertheless, and then the two elements become separated.

Thanks. I'll look into it.

:-)

make me celibate... but not yet :-)

 

wasn't that S.Agostino?

 

Alright man... obviously. lol no offense though, but I know there are times where I don't get morning woods, but that largely depends on my sense of the stimulation. Some days I get it, some days I don't. Just depends if I'm stimulated by it or not.

 

I never said it always had to be sexual either.

 

alright man. I agree, that we can get boners from having lots of chi. But that is because there is a tingling sensation, and it is stimulating the nerves on the penis.

 

The reason why I talked about urination is because that IS a possibility. Even if you don't have a full bladder, you have not urinated for some time so that some of the left over ingredients in urine which was left in the bladder has been sitting there for a while, either left to dry up or ferment or whatever, and it stings/tingles, whatever. so you need to flush it out by drinking water and urinating.

 

Im not saying you can't have a boner from chi. I never said that. Actually, all this doesn't need to be so damn mystical and mysterious. It's just a damn tingling sensation which stimulates the penis, point blank. It doesn't have to be sexual, unless it is associated with the act of sexual intercourse, and it becomes fluid which wants to be associated with the act of sexual intercourse.

Edited December 20, 2009 by Non

[Pietro]

all this doesn't need to be so damn mystical and mysterious. It's just a damn tingling sensation which stimulates the penis, point blank. It doesn't have to be sexual, unless it is associated with the act of sexual intercourse, and it becomes fluid which wants to be associated with the act of sexual intercourse.

 

No, Non, you are still not there. It is not the tingling in the penis that generate the morning wood. If this was the case the energy would be warm. But it is not. It is cold. There is a whole dimension of reality that you haven't explored yet. The dimension of cold energy and its effects.

[Pietro]

O.K. the goal is to IONIZE or BURN AWAY through electromagnetic fields -- the fluid. So the West has focused on retention -- this just causes blue balls, etc. People FIXATE on this because they do not FOCUS THEIR MINDS enough to create electromagnetic fields.

 

If you exercise tons and tons then you will also burn away the sex energy. Muscles are just stored electromagnetic potential -- but the mind is the source of the electromagnetic energy.

 

So the means to create the electromagnetic energy is through resonance. In order to burn away the sex fluids you have to resonate your mind with your body through the harmonic nodes of the body. So you focus your mind on the harmonic nodes and play the scale of the body with your mind. This is called the "microcosmic orbit" or the "small universe" -- you can get the small universe c.d. from http://springforestqigong.com Combine that with standing exercises.

 

Move into the half-lotus self-concentration meditation and then into the full-lotus. The full-lotus then BURNS away the sex fluid.

 

So for example last night I ate some food late and needed to digest so I didn't sit in full-lotus enough. Then I had too many blankets on so I was hot. Then I woke up with my "alchemical pill" having been deconverted to sex fluid. This was caused by someone around me having their electromagnetic focus in their lower chakra and thereby trying to "suck me off" -- to deconvert my chi back down to their mental focus on sex fluid.

 

Since I've trained a lot -- without thinking I immediately flexed by PC muscle -- the same muscle used to stop pissing in mid-flight. Then I went into full-lotus and stayed in full-lotus until the sex fluid had been converted back into chi -- burned or ionized. Then I went back to sleep. No problem! haha. No fluid loss.

 

So if a person's mental focus is on sex fluid that means their SUBCONSCIOUS electromagnetic energy is stuck in their lower chakra. When you raise that electromagnetic energy up to the brain then your brain can create light energy through the pineal gland. This light energy and electromagnetic energy can then be transmitted out of the pineal gland to heal others. Also the pineal gland then can read where someone has energy blockages in their body.

 

Thanks Drew for the explanation.

I still don't see the relation with the previous paper.

Also I would love to see some studies done on this.

I don't doubt that you do get the success you do by sitting in meditation, I am just not convinced that your explanation is the correct one.

 

For me I know that staying cross legged and concentrated on the LDD is usually enough to recover the energy that is starting to build up in the sex organs. I asked about it to Bruce, and he just said: "oh, that's just that the energy goes where the attention is, you concentrate on the LDD, and then the energy gets sucked up from the sex organs). It looks like a much simpler explanation.

 

But maybe they are both true. When you concentrate cross legged in the LDD you suck up the energy, and when you do that in lotus, a different type of alchemy happens.

 

Some time ago there were some threads about ionizers, and stuff that released ions in a room. I notice you use the same word. Are they related?

[voidisyinyang]

Good question. The answer is ultrasound. Pressure on the legs from full-lotus creates piezoelectric ultrasound which IONIZES, BURNS or PURIFIES the sex fluid back into jing -- heat and then into electromagnetic energy -- chi. This happens through the vagus nerve activation.

 

Thanks Drew for the explanation.

I still don't see the relation with the previous paper.

Also I would love to see some studies done on this.

I don't doubt that you do get the success you do by sitting in meditation, I am just not convinced that your explanation is the correct one.

 

For me I know that staying cross legged and concentrated on the LDD is usually enough to recover the energy that is starting to build up in the sex organs. I asked about it to Bruce, and he just said: "oh, that's just that the energy goes where the attention is, you concentrate on the LDD, and then the energy gets sucked up from the sex organs). It looks like a much simpler explanation.

 

But maybe they are both true. When you concentrate cross legged in the LDD you suck up the energy, and when you do that in lotus, a different type of alchemy happens.

 

Some time ago there were some threads about ionizers, and stuff that released ions in a room. I notice you use the same word. Are they related?

[Non]

what is the LDD?

[That Guy]

its lower dantian I think, that chakra behind your bellybutton somewhere wich is suppose to be able to store a lot of energy.

[Pietro]

its lower dantian I think, that chakra behind your bellybutton somewhere wich is suppose to be able to store a lot of energy.

Correct, but it's not a chakra.

 

The relation between chackras and DanTien is a complex one, and I would invite you to look at the archives, as it has been discussed multiple times.

 

The position of the LDD is generally is inside between the belly button and the starting of the pubic hair.

Said that there was even a book that claimed that the LDD could be above the belly button, if someone was born under the equator. Mah! Never did I found another source claiming the same.

 

Good question. The answer is ultrasound. Pressure on the legs from full-lotus creates piezoelectric ultrasound which IONIZES, BURNS or PURIFIES the sex fluid back into jing -- heat and then into electromagnetic energy -- chi. This happens through the vagus nerve activation.

 

Ok, so I need to try this out before going further.

Cheers,

P

[Non]

Correct, but it's not a chakra.

 

The relation between chackras and DanTien is a complex one, and I would invite you to look at the archives, as it has been discussed multiple times.

 

The position of the LDD is generally is inside between the belly button and the starting of the pubic hair.

Said that there was even a book that claimed that the LDD could be above the belly button, if someone was born under the equator. Mah! Never did I found another source claiming the same.

Ok, so I need to try this out before going further.

Cheers,

P

 

that's actually interesting.. because I've actually felt more around the belly button area, at least more tension and where I need to keep focus because there's a lot of tension around there. Why not just around the belly and belly button That's where we were hooked up in the womb before we were born, that's where energy came from.