Meditation driving me nuts

[Hyrdo]

So for the past week or so iv been trying a hand full of meditation techniques. My favorite one that i cant do is one I found recently of yoga where you just observe your breathing to basically get in touch with your self. It seems every time i try and do these different techniques my body will start screaming at me about how uncomfortable somthing is, whether it be i wana move my arms fingers w/e. On top of this my brain loves to jump from topic to topic and i try to keep it cool and just "observe" but more and more ill notice it isnt working out until it gets worse and worse.

 

I would image alot of people have had this problem

So yeah, id love some tips and tricks cuz atm meditation probably does more bad than good for me wearing my Patience thin and what not.

[lino]

So for the past week or so iv been trying a hand full of meditation techniques. My favorite one that i cant do is one I found recently of yoga where you just observe your breathing to basically get in touch with your self. It seems every time i try and do these different techniques my body will start screaming at me about how uncomfortable somthing is, whether it be i wana move my arms fingers w/e. On top of this my brain loves to jump from topic to topic and i try to keep it cool and just "observe" but more and more ill notice it isnt working out until it gets worse and worse.

 

I would image alot of people have had this problem

So yeah, id love some tips and tricks cuz atm meditation probably does more bad than good for me wearing my Patience thin and what not.

 

 

The progress that you are making isn't bad.

 

Your brain jumped from topic to topic so you should have noticed the in-between. One topic ended and you observed "impermanence".

[Encephalon]

So for the past week or so iv been trying a hand full of meditation techniques. My favorite one that i cant do is one I found recently of yoga where you just observe your breathing to basically get in touch with your self. It seems every time i try and do these different techniques my body will start screaming at me about how uncomfortable somthing is, whether it be i wana move my arms fingers w/e. On top of this my brain loves to jump from topic to topic and i try to keep it cool and just "observe" but more and more ill notice it isnt working out until it gets worse and worse.

 

I would image alot of people have had this problem

So yeah, id love some tips and tricks cuz atm meditation probably does more bad than good for me wearing my Patience thin and what not.

 

Welcome to the Human Condition!! There are approximately seven billion others on this planet who share your predicament, give or take the fifty or so who've managed to transcend our Earth-bound plight.

 

Meditation is a life-long practice. Trying a "handful" of different techniques over the course of one week is not the way to start out. The effects are cumulative and and take many months and years to accrue, so I wouldn't expect dramatic, earth-shattering experiences too soon

 

Zen meditation centers are located in hundreds of metropolitan areas around the world. They can introduce you to the simple breath-counting technique that slows down all the mind-chatter. If you are fidgeting too much, you may find it beneficial to take the yogi's ancient advice and practice yoga before meditation; once the body is calmed and relaxed, the mind will follow, but remember, this will not be a spontaneous experience either. Changing the mind using the mind calls for superhuman strength; changing the mind via the body will almost certainly prove fruitful.

 

Where do you live?

[ralis]

After I started doing Vipassana, everything was fine for 2 years. Then my mind became unhinged and all hell broke looose!!

 

ralis

[Hyrdo]

lol thx for motivation lino

 

 

Blasto, I live in Tennessee but im a bum that makes 0 moneys.

The thing is blasto i feel like i cant even get started. If it takes years before i trip balls like everyone talks about

getting from meditation (lol) that's fine but yeah, most of the time i feel like i am getting absolutely nothing from the practice or deprogressing if that's even possible.

 

idk, atm guess ill just keep at it..and try to keep in mind what you guys said

 

 

After I started doing Vipassana, everything was fine for 2 years. Then my mind became unhinged and all hell broke looose!!

 

ralis

 

So, you dont recommend it? atm ill looking at some videos about it on youtube and iv already got some things I wana try.

[effilang]

Hey Hydro,

 

I recall when i initially started meditation, there were periods where i felt my mind was totally out of control. It seemed like the more i tried to relax and calm myself the more my thoughts just went spiraling down hill, picking up every single thing in it's path.

 

It's different for everyone at first and i managed to find my peace very quickly.

 

I recommend counting the breaths eg: "One (Inhale)" - "(Two (Exhale)" - "Three (Inhale)" - till 10 or 50 or 100, then start over again from 1.

 

Try and follow your breath as you breath in and imagine it entering your nose, down your neck, through the middle of your body and gathering at your lower Tan Tien, as if blowing a bright white or blue smoke down a bottle with a circular shape but with a long cylindrical neck. Then on the exhale, imagine all that essence, scattered as the smoke would be within the bottle, condensing into a small dot in your lower Tan Tien.... (MEANWHILE still counting the in and out breaths.)

 

Don't get stressed - Just keep doing it for at least 30 mins a day and you will advance.

 

Good luck.

Edited December 18, 2009 by effilang

[lino]

lol thx for motivation lino

Blasto, I live in Tennessee but im a bum that makes 0 moneys.

The thing is blasto i feel like i cant even get started. If it takes years before i trip balls like everyone talks about

getting from meditation (lol) that's fine but yeah, most of the time i feel like i am getting absolutely nothing from the practice or deprogressing if that's even possible.

 

idk, atm guess ill just keep at it..and try to keep in mind what you guys said

 

 

Also

 

About the "pains", you observed "suffering".

 

I'm still trying to get a handle on observing "no self", so I wouldn't know how to observe it.

 

The whole point is to "end suffering" so something that you might want to do to become stronger for a sitting practice is some exercise. Try using Trunk's web page and also youtube and search for "yoga", "pilates", or whatever you think would be beneficial to you. From observation, I see that highly cultivated people got to where they are because an incredible state of health allowed them to experience the "magical" states.

 

You could go extremely far, even with 0 money put into it.

 

Don't limit your meditation to just "sitting"; try walking, standing, and lying down.

[ralis]

lol thx for motivation lino

Blasto, I live in Tennessee but im a bum that makes 0 moneys.

The thing is blasto i feel like i cant even get started. If it takes years before i trip balls like everyone talks about

getting from meditation (lol) that's fine but yeah, most of the time i feel like i am getting absolutely nothing from the practice or deprogressing if that's even possible.

 

idk, atm guess ill just keep at it..and try to keep in mind what you guys said

So, you dont recommend it? atm ill looking at some videos about it on youtube and iv already got some things I wana try.

 

Just be aware that meditation can be painful at times. I think it has to do with breaking down the barriers to the unconsciousness. The body-mind has all manner of self preservation filters i.e, conditioning.

 

 

ralis

[Encephalon]

lol thx for motivation lino

Blasto, I live in Tennessee but im a bum that makes 0 moneys.

The thing is blasto i feel like i cant even get started. If it takes years before i trip balls like everyone talks about

getting from meditation (lol) that's fine but yeah, most of the time i feel like i am getting absolutely nothing from the practice or deprogressing if that's even possible.

 

idk, atm guess ill just keep at it..and try to keep in mind what you guys said

So, you dont recommend it? atm ill looking at some videos about it on youtube and iv already got some things I wana try.

 

A zen meditation center will not charge you a dime for basic meditation instruction.

 

http://www.nashvillezencenter.org/

[lino]

 

I recall when i initially started meditation, there were periods where i felt my mind was totally out of control. It seemed like the more i tried to relax and calm myself the more my thoughts just went spiraling down hill, picking up every single thing in it's path.

 

 

I don't know but I think that the mind is trying to discard everything when that happens so that it can get closer to a state of peace. Maybe it is why we get bombed and is a good sign.

[ralis]

I don't know but I think that the mind is trying to discard everything when that happens so that it can get closer to a state of peace. Maybe it is why we get bombed and is a good sign.

 

 

I have never sought any sort of mental state from meditation i.e, peace etc. I just want to see what is out there.

[Fox]

Hello friend,

 

You won't be able to sit and meditate for hours right away.

 

The key is: Slowly.

 

Your mind is racing right now, jumping between meditations, being confused about what to do, what not to do.. Stop.

 

And just be.

 

That is meditation.

 

So just sit, and focus on your breath as people have mentioned before. I started out only being able to sit 5-10 minutes at a time, and I built upon that..

 

You are fine, just remember.. Be natural, just be, and be slowly.

 

[lino]

Just be aware that meditation can be painful at times. I think it has to do with breaking down the barriers to the unconsciousness. The body-mind has all manner of self preservation filters i.e, conditioning.

ralis

 

A person worth listening to had said that "Liberation lies beyond conscious awareness". So breaking down the barriers is a given in order to get where we are supposed to go.

[goldisheavy]

So for the past week or so iv been trying a hand full of meditation techniques. My favorite one that i cant do is one I found recently of yoga where you just observe your breathing to basically get in touch with your self. It seems every time i try and do these different techniques my body will start screaming at me about how uncomfortable somthing is, whether it be i wana move my arms fingers w/e. On top of this my brain loves to jump from topic to topic and i try to keep it cool and just "observe" but more and more ill notice it isnt working out until it gets worse and worse.

 

I would image alot of people have had this problem

So yeah, id love some tips and tricks cuz atm meditation probably does more bad than good for me wearing my Patience thin and what not.

 

Just relax. Be more forgiving. If you want to move your arm, move it. If some topic comes up, think about it. You can do all that while paying attention to your breath. Don't enter into an antagonistic relationship with your feelings. Instead be a friend of yourself. Simply allow your attention to fall on breath under its own weight. Don't force it. Just allow your attention to drift toward your breath. Don't hammer it mentally and don't try to control it too much.

 

Understand that your mind is doing what it thinks to be important. As you grow spiritually, some things, like various topics, will become less important to you, and it will become easier and more natural to be without those topics. You won't have to force yourself, because it will be natural. Your body getting jumpy is a reflection of your mind. Once your mind settles down, your body will too. The trick is not to fight anything. Be your own friend. Don't approach yourself as a general would an underling. Don't try to boss yourself.

[Trunk]

.. just observe your breathing ...

That's the foundation technique.

 

It seems every time i try and do these different techniques my body will start screaming at me about how uncomfortable somthing is, whether it be i wana move my arms fingers w/e. On top of this my brain loves to jump from topic to topic and i try to keep it cool and just "observe" but more and more ill notice it isnt working out until it gets worse and worse.

Yup.

Not unusual for it to be almost painfully boring for the first several weeks.

You're doing fine.

[lino]

I have never sought any sort of mental state from meditation i.e, peace etc. I just want to see what is out there.

 

When the thoughts slow down and there is a longer pause in between <--- I consider that hitting a state of peace

 

 

It might be "mundane" but the "mundane" is what gives birth to "magical states".

[Hyrdo]

Just wanted to say for the first time i felt some progression and I was actually a little worryed because,like the first time i relised i was lucid dreaming the excitement ruined it and woke me up.Also recently I seemed to of started to have a out of body experience as i was going to sleep, then i noticed it and seemed to ruin it.

 

Anyways yeah, i was looking at this Vipassana video and they were talking about just observing everything and I tryed that. Before i would try to only observe my breathing, but this time i would observe my thoughts as well, as if they wernt my own (most would say they arnt anyways). I also observed my body sensations and realised they wernt my own a bit. I tryed to realise that nothing was good or bad it was just all like "is". Ironically this is the type of philosophy iv been studying latly anyway.

 

idk, tell me what you guys think, plx, heh

 

edit: alot of replys i havnt read yet sense i got a phone call in the middle of my reply

 

o yeah, ment to mention i probably only did it for like 10 mins (which is alot for me lol) mainly cuzz i decided to stop cuzz my foot was dead asleep and decided i should give it some blood

 

edit2: yeah interesting replies, and i definitely wana try going to this place > http://www.nashvillezencenter.org/

Edited December 18, 2009 by Hyrdo

[bindo]

Noticing when your mind wanders is progress.

 

I find watching my breath is easier while laying down. You have to be careful not to fall asleep though.

 

As Blasto said, doing yoga, chi kung, breathing, etc., before meditating is a great help.

 

Maybe this will help http://straightlinemeditation.com/default.aspx

 

Yoga nidra may be a good place to start too.

[Hyrdo]

Noticing when your mind wanders is progress.

 

I find watching my breath is easier while laying down. You have to be careful not to fall asleep though.

 

As Blasto said, doing yoga, chi kung, breathing, etc., before meditating is a great help.

 

Maybe this will help http://straightlinemeditation.com/default.aspx

 

Yoga nidra may be a good place to start too.

 

yeah lol a while back i practiced clearing my mind as a way of mediation befor getting serious about it again and i figured laying down is the most relaxed state, but needless to say would get sleepy or fall asleep.

[C T]

Hey there Hyrdo,

 

As Blasto said, you are not alone!

 

First off, i would suggest you drop the term 'Meditation' because it really conjures up a lot of

unnecessary do's and dont's that can be very frustrating for one who is just beginning to 'enjoy'

the art of contemplation. Try using the the term 'Observing' instead, since one of the primary

aims of Meditation is indeed to habituate the Observer as opposed to the Experiencer, which

most of us are, unfortunately.

 

A practical way to look at how you can initiate this Observer mode is to picture a triangle when

ever you begin your practice. On one side of this triangle you can project all those things which

you think are impeding your practice, and on the other side, thats where you can project all the

fruits that you want to attain thru this exercise of 'meditation', and at the apex stands the non-

judging Observer.

 

As you assume your comfortable position, whether sitting, or squatting, standing or walking, it

does not really matter, because eventually, when you have become more stable in this way of

practice, you can still engage this 'observer' mode no matter where you are or what you are doing -

even if you are sitting in the loo for that matter! Seriously though - this is a very good way

to begin establishing 'Mindfulness' - which is one of the fruits of Meditation. And its a simple enough

exercise (and quick too) to bring you to a state of calm witnessing.

 

Okay so you are in position - the next thing is to be aware, as you have begun to be already, all the

different sensations that arise in your mind. Whenever you observe any detrimental or unpleasant

sensations, simply assign them to the left corner of the triangle, and whenever any pleasant ones arise,

assign them to the right corner, and keep doing this over and over, until such time your mind begins

to loosen up, or sometimes it just gets tired and starts pausing. When this happens, you have to be

attentive to the pause, in fact, pay more attention to the pause and the loosening up period than you

do to the other two states when the mind is swinging from one side of the triangle to the other. When

you direct greater attention to this, basically what you are doing is you are becoming extra conscious

of how your mind arrives at the loosening-up phase, so at this juncture, you assume the role of the

Observer, and take the position at the top of the triangle, and remain there as long as your focus is on

this pausing phase. Dont try to coerce or force yourself to get to this mode. That would defeat the

whole purpose of this exercise. The thing to REMEMBER is you want to habituate the Observer to arise

as naturally and spontaneously as possible.

 

After about (roughly) 21 days of this exercise, say maybe just half an hour a day, it starts to become

easier to observe your thoughts because you have consciously begun to recognize them. And after that,

you will begin to notice that your mind will automatically switch to the Observer mode whenever you begin

formal practice, and from here, you would be halfway home! Your thoughts would slow down and

the practice from then on becomes easier and more enjoyable, and you get more spacious in your

mind as the gaps between the states of frustration and feeling wonderful become wider and wider, and

then you just learn to linger and rest longer and longer in these gaps!

 

Thats about it - simple, straightforward, and practically useful!

 

Happy practice eh?

[JustARandomPanda]

Well I guess I'm going against the grain of everyone's advice in this thread. I never found following the breath to be effective. Primarily because one follows it over the entire path as it enters and leaves the body. Which is not one-pointed concentration imo.

 

Instead I focus on my left big toe and just stay locked on like a laser beam as much as I can. When my thoughts interrupt - and they come through at high speed and with a vengeance - I re-direct the lock-on to my big toe with equal speed.

 

I found out later that the Buddha himself said focusing on the left big toe is an excellent meditation practice.

[Aetherous]

Serene,

 

Will you share where you got the idea for the left big toe, and where Buddha said it? It is interesting.

[bindo]

Focus on the FEEL of the flow of the air at your nostrils. Following the flow thru your body is more of a chi kung practice imo.

[Encephalon]

Serene,

 

Will you share where you got the idea for the left big toe, and where Buddha said it? It is interesting.

 

 

Sorry, I'm not Serene Blue, but I think she's referring to this -

 

How to Practice the White Skeleton Meditation for Curing Illness, Getting Rid of Pain, Developing Your Psychic Abilities, Purifying Your Chi Channels and Achieving Spiritual Awakening

By William Bodri

When Shakyamuni Buddha was alive in ancient India, he taught an incredible variety of different meditation methods for people who wanted to enter into the state of samadhi as a means to climb the spiritual path. One of the spiritual cultivation methods he particularly emphasized was the skeleton visualization technique, which is the topic of this special report. The other method he emphasized was anapana, or breathing practice, which you can find described in the Anapanasati Sutra.

 

This is from a pdf file available on line. White Skeleton.

[zazaza]

everything that is received through the 5 senses is being paid attention to

automatically by each of us, but the focus of attention keeps on jumping from

one point to the next.

 

to me the phrase "being meditative" means to start focusing attention on everything

that we think ourselves to be.

 

this way we indeed switch into "observation modus"...

by observing it becomes clear that that we are not that which we are observing.

 

everytime you dis-cover some new concept you thought yourself to be,

there is less "mental baggage" you have to carry... which means

you feel more free, more happy and more energetic. (you become conscious of the kundalini, etc)

 

 

 

when everything you are not has been dis-covered,

the truth of "no-self", "emptiness" or "The Self" (with a capital S)

has been fully realized.

 

Meditation is a deliberate attempt to pierce into the higher states of consciousness and finally go beyond it. The art of meditation is the art of shifting the focus of attention to ever subtler levels, without losing one's grip on the levels left behind. The final stage of meditation is reached when the sense of identity goes beyond the "I-am-so-and-so", beyond "so-I-am", beyond "I-am-the-witness-only", beyond "there-is", beyond all ideas into the impersonally personal pure being. But you must be energetic when you take to meditation. It is definitely not a part-time occupation. Limit your interests and activities to what is needed for you and your dependents' barest needs. Save all your energies and time for breaking the wall your mind had built around you. Believe me, you will not regret. (413)

 

A quiet mind is all you need. All else will happen rightly, once your mind is quiet. As the sun on rising makes the world active, so does self-awareness affect changes in the mind. In the light of calm and steady self-awareness, inner energies wake up and work miracles without any effort on your part. (311)

 

Until you are free of the drug [of self-identification] , all your religions ans sciences, prayers and yogas are of no use to you, for, based on a mistake, they strengthen it. (443-4)

i believe the kundalini is already present in each of us.

it is inside every fear of pain and desire for pleasure,

it is present in everythought and in every fibre of ourself...

 

but because we are all caught up in our mental games,

we're not conscious of it.

Edited December 18, 2009 by zazaza