Meditation driving me nuts

[voidisyinyang]

http://rapid.org/board/showthread.php?t=252054

 

Here's the list of the Spring Forest Qigong information -- all free download.

 

I must say, Chunyi Lin's Guided MCO meditation that comes with the Level One pkg is awfully convenient, and it seems it could go a long way toward alleviating some of the focusing problems normally experienced in beginning meditation. Just counting the breath while staring at the wall, Soto Zen style, is a bitch, but inhaling and exhaling through the major gates of the MCO gives the mind - AND the body - something else to work with. I'm not a beginner but it sure would have come in handy several years ago, but that's Monday morning quarterbacking.

[goldisheavy]

I forgot one more thing. If it's too hard to keep still and watch your breath, you can try walking meditation and allow your attention to drift toward the rhythm of your feet. This also has a tendency to ground you, especially if you keep your attention low and close to the ground.

 

This is what I used to do for a long time. For a long time I couldn't sit still either. I was too jumpy in a profound way. Furthermore, my breath is a very intimate "part" of myself, and when I pay attention to it, I connect with my own fragility, and this used to freak me out. I thought I might stop breathing or die. Why? It doesn't necessarily make sense, but that's what my mind was thinking if I focused on my breath. So I walked instead. After a few years of walking, I could sit still.

 

Not that I sit still much these days (at least in a formal or a semi-formal meditative pose anyway). But if I want to, or have to, it's not a problem and I can enjoy it.

 

I have to give credit to de_paradise's post up above for reminding me of this:

 

For energetic reasons I could not do the breath observing meditation for a year and a half. I got into mantras

Edited December 19, 2009 by goldisheavy

[bindo]

All about watching the breath.

 

http://diydharma.org/mind-well-trained-thanissaro-bhikkhu

[HealingMindN]

Fiveelementtao is right, you gotta have intention. The goal of adept meditators is some objective of internal alchemy. What is the intention of your meditation?

 

Capital is also on the money. You should embrace your faults in order to control them. Your mind may be discursive only because you have been trained with discursive thinking patterns. Since you want focus, allow the "emptiness" between your thoughts to become longer and more consistent, like watching a movie from an old film projector on the screen which is your mind.

 

When you allow the "emptiness" between thoughts to become consistent, you will notice that it is not empty, but there are messages there waiting for you in the form of symbols.

 

Secrets of the Ninja by Ashida Kim provides an excellent warm up exercise to get you into the meditation state or Kuji Kiri which consists of nine intentions or Kuji Kiri Kanji based in the eight extraordinary vessels and the pingali of Tantric Yoga. The ninth intention is to awaken your kundalini or "magical" powers. Some people say that Ashida Kim is a charlatan; I say he's a white boy who knows ninjitsu. His book is available free online.

 

You can also look up HealingMindN Meditation for Healing Thoughts, Healing Minds.

[Aasin]

I just want to say I am really happy I came upon this post as I have recently got back into breathing meditation. Got into it during the summer but my free time was literally limited to three hours a day and meditation could not win out over hanging out with my girlfriend or with friends. The school year didn't help either in motivating me. I did enjoy it though.

 

Now that the semester is over though I'm hoping to get into it and begin to maintain it like I do with my hourly exercise routine. I'm also twenty so I understand the bind your in. At our age we're still young and seeing everything the world has to offer is fresh in our heads. We just need to stop rushing through everything and actually sit back and enjoy what we see.

 

I don't know if this would work for you, but with me I always imagine my breathing as an oval and my breathing flowing through the oval as I inhale and exhale. It makes me feel very aloof as if my head was in the clouds and helps lower my anxiety.

 

Since I'm very new at this, I'm wondering what are some good chants I could do to help me focus better? I've been doing a "hum" sound which has been very beneficial in helping focus the energy and the aloof feeling in the back of my head. Anyone care to explain this to me?

 

Good luck in finding your own way mate!

[宁]

Bad news: meditation ain't for wussies...

Good news: you can easily fake it, thou..

[manitou]

This may be far too simple.

 

Imagine you are a flower growing in the sun. As the sun moves across the sky, you slightly turn your face to face the sun. Move as slowly as you possibly can - if someone were watching you, they would not see that you're moving. Imagine that a gentle warm breeze sways you - gently sway in the wind, moving ever so slightly so no one else would notice.

 

It seems that the act of barely moving is enough to prevent oddball thoughts from bouncing around. Breath can be gently considered or counted once the flower awareness has set in.

[lino]

Meditation is not about "Peace of Mind" that is a western oversimplification. It is the RESULT of discipline.

Hyrdo... save yourself some time... Find a teacher.... IF you are serious about learning meditation, you can find the resources to find a teacher. Don't do it alone. It is not necessary...

 

IME, what many westerners misunderstand about meditation is that it is not an instant, magic fix. We in the west have unrealistic expectations about the immediate results of meditation. IMO in the western (especially American) mindset, this is based on a basic misunderstanding of meditation combined with a pathological desire to escape... I have never thought of meditation as a way to "still the mind" "Be at peace" etc... My teachers both yogic and taoist never stressed passive meditation. There was always a task. Whether it be just to observe the breath, count the breath etc.... Many times there was a mudra involved or a task of mudra combined with guiding the breath into different directions etc.. There was always a task... The task occupied my mind, while the energetic result of the task fed my spirit. And it was always understood that the first result of any meditation was that the unconscious, the ego, internal resistance would ALWAYS kick in and try to sabotage the process...This was expected.

 

IME, Meditation is an art for warriors. It is not an exercise in escape or passivity. It is a process of facing oneself and one's limitations. For me, the greatest challenge is to be confronted with myself and NOT react. This is the meditation. This, for me is the greatest benefit. Because, what I gain from that is that during my day, I am confronted with situations where my lower nature wants to react and meditation gives me the ability to act from discipline. So, when I hear people complain about not being able to meditate because their ego is kicking in and making it diffiucult, I say. Of course! You're just starting to learn how to meditate. This is the first step. If you don't bump into yourself, something is wrong.

 

When I hear people talk about wanting to be free of their ego what I hear is that they really want to be free of their self judgment. This is different than normal ego. The ego is a necessary tool. But when the spirit has been weakened or when we have been raised in a dysfunctional home or oppressive society, the ego, in an attempt to fill the void of a weak spirit becomes bloated and then becomes an internal abuser and we are filled with self-hatred and self-judgment and we seek escape from our torment. It is no accident that there are many young people on this forum who are very interested in Taoism and spirituality and ALSO drug users. This is a totally modern western phenomenon and attests to a basic misunderstanding of spiritual disciplines. In the East, it was understood that if you wanted to be a spiritual practitioner, you couldn't rely on drugs. In native cultures that RARELY use drugs, there is always a purification process and rituals for protection, because they know that drugs harm the body. We use drugs without understanding the harm they cause our bodies and our spirits... We think that meditation is like a drug. We meditate and have difficulty, so we seek stronger measure and want to use drugs to facilitate a spiritual experience. We seek escape from our internal abuser, our ego... IME, the only way ot gain the peace we seek is through the warrior discipline of meditation, not the escape of drugs.

 

It is helpful to find a teacher... Meditation is similar to going to the gym, you understand that it will take dedication and you expect to experience resistance. You also understand that you will get stronger if you practice consistently and it will get easier. Mediators are warriors learning discipline. Taking drugs takes no discipline. It is completely passive.It erodes your strength of mind and makes one spiritually weak.

If you want peace in your meditations, I suggest finding a teacher who has been in your shoes and can guide you. Most on this forum giving advice also have learned from teachers. No one whom I have met who had success in their spiritual path, did it alone. They all had teachers....

 

Brother,

From what I understand, "Peace of Mind" is one of the elements of Happiness or "Ending Suffering".

At first, I thought that it was important to see the worlds beyond...superpowers and stuff like that. Now I see that it is more important to eliminate defects in order to reach a happier state.

 

It isn't a "magic" fix but small incremental gains can be made every single meditation. The small incremental gains may be "mundane" but that is how everything starts. A meditation isn't just a "concentration" exercise, it is a mode of investigation...so escapism isn't really possible. Through the investigation; finding the cause and effect is possible. The cause and effect creates the conditions for compassion to arise. Investigation leads to internal defects being corrected. Small incremental gains are made anyway because there isn't a permanent self and evolution is always happening. I considered that the ego or the unconscious that it puts up internal resistance because it wants an immediate change. The immediate change is worth investigation because it is what discards limitations, bad habits, or unwholesome states. I found that ignoring the lower nature is not what I want. I want to strip it of bad habits, limitations, or unwholesome states so that it can be happier and further integrated. The lower nature is smarter and more pliant than everybody thinks. I also found that "intellectuality" and "reasoning" have to occur in order for "application" to be successful.

 

In the gym, I found that the resistance is the indication that I am getting somewhere. I also found that in meditation, resistance is where I am getting somewhere too. If the same thought keeps popping up then it requires investigation.

 

I gain peace by investigating the resistance and seeing what I could do at the current time by trying to apply Teachings.

[Hyrdo]

http://diydharma.org/alan-watts-teaches-me...tion-alan-watts

 

boom

[fiveelementtao]

Lino,

You make some very good points and I agree with them all. I don't see the disagreement here. You and I are both saying that meditation is not about stuffing our feelings and pretending to be at peace. But I do feel that many beginning westerners have been handed a bunch of nonsense in many new agey books that simply explain meditation as "emptying the mind" and "being at peace" and as a result we have alot of people that approach meditation as a way to escape their feelings rather than face them... You are saying the same thing. Not that meditation doesn't eventually give peace of mind, but that it is a process that takes discipline focus and resolve...That was really my point. and it is what I am reacting to when I hear people want to give up meditating because they don't feel peaceful immediately. So, I don't see the disagreement...

you said

Now I see that it is more important to eliminate defects in order to reach a happier state.

This is exactly my point.. That it is necessary to face our limitations before we can be at peace.

 

Brother,

From what I understand, "Peace of Mind" is one of the elements of Happiness or "Ending Suffering".

At first, I thought that it was important to see the worlds beyond...superpowers and stuff like that. Now I see that it is more important to eliminate defects in order to reach a happier state

[lino]

Lino,

You make some very good points and I agree with them all. I don't see the disagreement here. You and I are both saying that meditation is not about stuffing our feelings and pretending to be at peace. But I do feel that many beginning westerners have been handed a bunch of nonsense in many new agey books that simply explain meditation as "emptying the mind" and "being at peace" and as a result we have alot of people that approach meditation as a way to escape their feelings rather than face them... You are saying the same thing. Not that meditation doesn't eventually give peace of mind, but that it is a process that takes discipline focus and resolve...That was really my point. and it is what I am reacting to when I hear people want to give up meditating because they don't feel peaceful immediately. So, I don't see the disagreement...

you said

 

This is exactly my point.. That it is necessary to face our limitations before we can be at peace.

 

 

"emptying the mind" is an oversimplification. Shakyamuni actually taught Arhats that had not discerned what "emptiness" was.

 

For the people that don't know what is an Arhat...at that point in time, the Arhat was the final stage before becoming a Buddha.

 

An Arhat is a person that had eliminated suffering to an extremely high degree and defeated the 10 fetters of Buddhism.

 

You probably knew this way before me

Edited December 20, 2009 by lino

[glooper23]

Does the position truly matter? Do I have to sit up with my legs crossed? I ask because my right leg gives me a lot of pain when I try to sit "Indian style." I would prefer any other position than that.

[voidisyinyang]

Full-lotus is the best -- 20 minutes is worth 4 hours of any other meditation. Still if you can do the small universe meditation then your electromagnetic fields will increase until you can get into full-lotus. http://springforestqigong.com

 

Does the position truly matter? Do I have to sit up with my legs crossed? I ask because my right leg gives me a lot of pain when I try to sit "Indian style." I would prefer any other position than that.

[lino]

Full-lotus is the best -- 20 minutes is worth 4 hours of any other meditation. Still if you can do the small universe meditation then your electromagnetic fields will increase until you can get into full-lotus. http://springforestqigong.com

 

Drew,

Could you meditate without using the lotus just ONE TIME. Even if it is just walking across the street.

Please?

[glooper23]

Full-lotus is the best -- 20 minutes is worth 4 hours of any other meditation. Still if you can do the small universe meditation then your electromagnetic fields will increase until you can get into full-lotus. http://springforestqigong.com

 

Thanks.

[voidisyinyang]

Lino -- after enough practice it's no longer "you" meditating but actually the other way around. So once I stopped all practice for a couple months just to see if the energy would go away. Nope -- there's a permanent magnetized bliss in the center of the brain. So during the day if I stop meditating -- like going for walks and getting it deep heated discussions with relatives -- I still am REMINDED of the energy without any choice on my part. There's no turning back! haha.

 

But in the full-lotus then there's the creation of light in the brain and with a good session during the day after fasting then I see light around other people as well -- if they are healthy. And if not then at least their heart chakras will open up in tandem with mine -- it's an open energy system -- so when I heal myself I am healing others at the same time. And then people starting laughing around me -- if not at me!

 

Drew,

Could you meditate without using the lotus just ONE TIME. Even if it is just walking across the street.

Please?