Hitting the Wall

[Unconditioned]

I've been living my spiritual life for probably the last 3-4 years. I've accumlated a lot of knowledge, some insights, some powerful experiences, had moments of extreme clarity, etc. but at the end of the day here I am. My collection of memories, samskaras, karma, whatever term you'd like to use... is still here. It's still thinking it's thoughts, feeling it's feelings, identifying with a stream of conciousness and being a 'self'.

 

Even with the knowledge and experience, I still find myself searching for some even deeper still answer and experience. I feel as though I've either hit a huge wall, or that there's a subtle waiting for something to happen/change.

 

I know I haven't settled on any conclusions, I don't hold any absolute views of anything, but I feel as though something is missing. Some... thing... that keeps fueling the ego. I feel like I've regressed somehow, and I'm back to where I was before I even started but with a few more trinkets in my pocket.

 

Anyone else been here or is there? Any thoughts on is this a plateau, part of a usual progression, etc.?

[bindo]

I think this is common for just about everybody.

 

There is a definite "ebb and flow" to my own spiritual practice. I'll make great progress and then it stops. It's as if I can only go so far within before the insights, experiences, etc. need to be processed and fully integrated into my being and made a part of my outer being as well, in daily life.

 

So long as you keep at your spiritual practice, I think it's a mistake to think that progress has stopped. There is still a lot going on "behind the veil".

Edited December 18, 2009 by bindo

[Encephalon]

You answered your own question when you wrote "but at the end of the day here I am," and again when you wrote "Some... thing... that keeps fueling the ego."

 

We'll always have that hunger as long as we identify with an "I" that doesn't exist. If we look for the I, we can't find it, but there is something better, and I quote from David Loy what cannot be said any better --

 

"Rather, the bottomless, festering black hole can transform into a fountain and become a refreshing spring gushing up at the core of my being. The bottomlessness of the this spring means something quite different than before. Now it refers to the fact that I can never understand the source of this spring, for the simple reason that I AM this spring. It is nothing other than my true nature. And my inability to reflexively grasp that source, to ground and realize myself by filling up that hole, is no longer a problem, because there is no need to grasp it. The point is to LIVE that spring, to let my fountain gush forth. My thirst (the second Noble Truth) is "blown out" because a letting go at the core of my being means my sense of lack evaporates as this fountain springs up."

 

After the ecstasy, the laundry, eh? (to quote Jack Kornfield.)

[Lucky7Strikes]

I hope those trinkets in your pocket due matter. How could it not, in moments of despair, hopelessness, happiness, boredome, etc. etc. etc.?

 

The teachers I have met, and have read about, all have returned to the simplicities of life. They chop wood, carry water, and wander.

 

The thoughts, feelings, and the 'self' are all necessary elements of human existence. They are essential for us to communicate with other living beings. In reference to the quote above, which I highly due respect nonetheless, there is no need to live that spring, or not live that spring. You can go in and out of both states, and neither is more truer or false, better or worse.

 

The greater Self is not different from the smaller self. It is just a progression. People who make the disparity, I think, have a false idea that the concept of "self" is destroyed. The "I" cannot kill the "I."

Edited December 18, 2009 by Lucky7Strikes

[Unconditioned]

We'll always have that hunger as long as we identify with an "I" that doesn't exist. If we look for the I, we can't find it, but there is something better, and I quote from David Loy what cannot be said any better --

 

Great point! I know the "I" is just made up, an assumption, a belief, that all this 'stuff' that is experienced is 'me'. But, identification with that or not, that's a different story.

Then

 

"Rather, the bottomless, festering black hole can transform into a fountain and become a refreshing spring gushing up at the core of my being. The bottomlessness of the this spring means something quite different than before. Now it refers to the fact that I can never understand the source of this spring, for the simple reason that I AM this spring. It is nothing other than my true nature. And my inability to reflexively grasp that source, to ground and realize myself by filling up that hole, is no longer a problem, because there is no need to grasp it. The point is to LIVE that spring, to let my fountain gush forth. My thirst (the second Noble Truth) is "blown out" because a letting go at the core of my being means my sense of lack evaporates as this fountain springs up."

 

After the ecstasy, the laundry, eh? (to quote Jack Kornfield.)

 

Excellent quotes, very good reminders.

 

 

I hope those trinkets in your pocket due matter. How could it not, in moments of despair, hopelessness, happiness, boredome, etc. etc. etc.?

 

The teachers I have met, and have read about, all have returned to the simplicities of life. They chop wood, carry water, and wander.

 

The thoughts, feelings, and the 'self' are all necessary elements of human existence. They are essential for us to communicate with other living beings. In reference to the quote above, which I highly due respect nonetheless, there is no need to live that spring, or not live that spring. You can go in and out of both states, and neither is more truer or false, better or worse.

 

The greater Self is not different from the smaller self. It is just a progression. People who make the disparity, I think, have a false idea that the concept of "self" is destroyed. The "I" cannot kill the "I."

 

Yes, yes, and yes. I got stuck on "how do I get rid of the ego?" for a while then realized awake or asleep, we still all have a personality, it's just do we see it for what it is or think that we are ONLY the personality.

[voidisyinyang]

Just sit in full-lotus. 20 minutes of full-lotus is worth 4 hours of any other type of meditation. If you can't do that then do more microcosmic orbit practice until the electromagnetic fields are strong enough. After 2 hours of easy full-lotus that means the pineal gland starts to open up. Good luck.

 

Great point! I know the "I" is just made up, an assumption, a belief, that all this 'stuff' that is experienced is 'me'. But, identification with that or not, that's a different story.

Then

Excellent quotes, very good reminders.

Yes, yes, and yes. I got stuck on "how do I get rid of the ego?" for a while then realized awake or asleep, we still all have a personality, it's just do we see it for what it is or think that we are ONLY the personality.

[fiveelementtao]

Yes, yes, and yes. I got stuck on "how do I get rid of the ego?"

Don't get rid of it. That is escapism. Make peace with it. Strengthen your spirit and make your spirit the "alpha". Ask your ego in meditation what it REALLY wants. It wants to serve your spirit.

In terms of "Is this all there is?". I understand, in my tradition, this is called "returning to nothing." Ask your guides what the next level is for you and wait to see what materializes.

That my opinion, based on my experience... hope it helps...

[Encephalon]

I hope those trinkets in your pocket due matter. How could it not, in moments of despair, hopelessness, happiness, boredome, etc. etc. etc.?

 

The teachers I have met, and have read about, all have returned to the simplicities of life. They chop wood, carry water, and wander.

 

The thoughts, feelings, and the 'self' are all necessary elements of human existence. They are essential for us to communicate with other living beings. In reference to the quote above, which I highly due respect nonetheless, there is no need to live that spring, or not live that spring. You can go in and out of both states, and neither is more truer or false, better or worse.

 

The greater Self is not different from the smaller self. It is just a progression. People who make the disparity, I think, have a false idea that the concept of "self" is destroyed. The "I" cannot kill the "I."

 

These "Self vs self" arguments are regularly prone to semantic traps. As individuals, we of course have our unique personalities and character traits because we are all subject to different contingencies. But the "self" as a distinct, separate, eternal and unchanging identity is the concept that we take for granted, even though it's a social construct. "Identity as fountain" is more difficult to conceptualize, but it's as Taoist, and Buddhist, as one can get.

 

Don't get rid of it. That is escapism. Make peace with it. Strengthen your spirit and make your spirit the "alpha". Ask your ego in meditation what it REALLY wants. It wants to serve your spirit.

In terms of "Is this all there is?". I understand, in my tradition, this is called "returning to nothing." Ask your guides what the next level is for you and wait to see what materializes.

That my opinion, based on my experience... hope it helps...

 

Absolutely. When the ego is subordinate to the Spirit, everything's cool. It's only when the relationship is reversed that we make a mess out of things. I suspect that, except for a handful of souls on the planet at any one time, the romantic ideal of an egoless personality is just that, a cognitive beacon that keeps us heading in the right direction.

 

I'm not sure where the escapism manifests, unless it is on behalf of an ego that is still too fragile to be let go of in the first place, in which case, it would be delusional if not escapist. I think the Eastern archetypal figure of egolessness is the Bhodisattva, someone who's got their spiritual act together so well that they work on behalf of the liberation of all sentient beings as they would work on their own, which are one and same anyway, yes?

Edited December 18, 2009 by Blasto

[Ya Mu]

Some days are better than others.

Do the best you can.

Chop wood carry water = everyone.

3-4 years is not a frustration point but an opportunity point.

Learn real qigong with a teacher if you haven't already. You will find there is a big difference in qigong's.

[forestofclarity]

I suppose this is the problem with goal oriented thinking. We often imagine a goal, and get frustrated when we don't get to this imagined goal.

 

So is the problem in you, or in this imagined goal? I say through out the imagined goal, keep practicing.

[Lucky7Strikes]

I'm not sure where the escapism manifests, unless it is on behalf of an ego that is still too fragile to be let go of in the first place, in which case, it would be delusional if not escapist. I think the Eastern archetypal figure of egolessness is the Bhodisattva, someone who's got their spiritual act together so well that they work on behalf of the liberation of all sentient beings as they would work on their own, which are one and same anyway, yes?

 

I agree with Blasto here. Escapism is a tricky word and concept. The Buddha was probably "escaping" from the "reality" of life and death. To not escape is also a tricky concept, as sometimes the macho attitude of "I will take this head on!" is not the wisest thing to do. It all depends on the conditions and intent.

 

Anyways, I like escaping, actually all this "spiritual" things I do is partly to escape, so I can come back and destroy...er...the cage. .

Edited December 19, 2009 by Lucky7Strikes

[doc benway]

It's still thinking it's thoughts, feeling it's feelings, identifying with a stream of conciousness and being a 'self'.

 

Even with the knowledge and experience, I still find myself searching for some even deeper still answer and experience. I feel as though I've either hit a huge wall, or that there's a subtle waiting for something to happen/change.

 

 

We are human. We think and remember and feel. It is the nature of our sensory apparatus to create the impression of an ego contained within a bag of skin. And the nature of mind is to want to become. Our "success" as a species is the result of the instinct to become something other than what we are currently. As has been said, it is not productive to fight against our nature, that simply reinforces the presence of the one that is struggling and creates suffering. If what you are is not adequate, this means you are attached to an idea of something other.

Accept what you are and commit to living your life according to the principles that you value. Everything else will come of its own accord. At least that's where I'm at, FWIW.

[Lucky7Strikes]

We are human. We think and remember and feel. It is the nature of our sensory apparatus to create the impression of an ego contained within a bag of skin. And the nature of mind is to want to become. Our "success" as a species is the result of the instinct to become something other than what we are currently. As has been said, it is not productive to fight against our nature, that simply reinforces the presence of the one that is struggling and creates suffering. If what you are is not adequate, this means you are attached to an idea of something other.

Accept what you are and commit to living your life according to the principles that you value. Everything else will come of its own accord. At least that's where I'm at, FWIW.

 

There is no such thing as "human nature."

 

The suffering towards enlightenment is not suffering, but practice. Practice is not/should not be suffering.

 

You ARE inadequate.

 

DO NOT accept what you are. Question your values.

 

.

[DalTheJigsaw123]

I've been living my spiritual life for probably the last 3-4 years. I've accumlated a lot of knowledge, some insights, some powerful experiences, had moments of extreme clarity, etc. but at the end of the day here I am. My collection of memories, samskaras, karma, whatever term you'd like to use... is still here. It's still thinking it's thoughts, feeling it's feelings, identifying with a stream of conciousness and being a 'self'.

 

Even with the knowledge and experience, I still find myself searching for some even deeper still answer and experience. I feel as though I've either hit a huge wall, or that there's a subtle waiting for something to happen/change.

 

I know I haven't settled on any conclusions, I don't hold any absolute views of anything, but I feel as though something is missing. Some... thing... that keeps fueling the ego. I feel like I've regressed somehow, and I'm back to where I was before I even started but with a few more trinkets in my pocket.

 

Anyone else been here or is there? Any thoughts on is this a plateau, part of a usual progression, etc.?

 

Definitely! I'm right here with you. Feeling the same damn way as you. It will never go away, it will just continue to get strong and then it will subside, it's a proses of life, I suppose. Maybe this is why we should just follow the Tao and let everything else fall into place?

[Sarnyn]

Everybody here has posted great replies, and I feel like it is difficult to expound on them. But I think some things to keep in mind that are useful, are what we call impediments.

 

In Buddhism there are the five mental impediments that hinder meditation

 

Desire

Malice

Depression or Sloth

Wildness or Excitement

and Doubt or Perplexity.

 

In the Books of Carlos Castaneda, the Yaqui Sorcerer Don Juan says that the four enemies to a man of knowledge are

 

Fear (this is like attachment. attachment to our old way of seeing reality)

Clarity (This is like the cup that is filled to the brim and can't hold anything else)

Power (This is the danger of power without control)

and Old Age (this is the danger of giving in to tiredness, and the desire to forget)

 

There are other examples of these kinds of impediments which plague us as people on a path.

 

Our Christian brothers have what are called the three enemies to christian faith, which are

 

the outer enemy (or the world.) Have you ever noticed how even when you are trying to change, the wolrd that is used to the old you seems to invite you into your old pattern, as though it cannot accept that you have changed or are changing? This could come in the form of friends, of relationships, of a profession, even in the form of objects. Like how the wild grown lawn of the lazy man will fight agaisnt him when he finally decides to shape and maintain it. It will take a lot of work for him to nurture back from it's wild state.

 

the inner foe (the flesh), this is similar to the Buddhist concept of the habit pattern of the mind, except that our christian brothers tend to think of this as being the natural state of the body, sinfulness. I still believe that it is not so different than the Buddhist teaching. In other words the natural state of man without Christ is sinfulness. For Buddhists, you could say that the natural state of man without Enlightenment is ignorance. These things can be thought to be analogous, from a certain perspective.

 

and the stubborn adversary (satan) Like Mara, ignorance constantly reels its ugly head and often comes in the form of a closely guarded truth. Even our attachment to our spiritual quest can be an impediment.

 

Anyway I elaborated on these last three because they are the ones which I am personally the least familiar with, and I am of course projecting that unfamiliarity onto you all. lol

 

 

I think that when we feel like we are in a rut, or when we feel like we have hit that plateau, or when we feel like we can't seem to make the progress we might feel we should be making, or desire, these are things that we can think about, and see if we are facing any of these adversaries.

 

I hope that these thoughts are useful

 

 

with meta

[goldisheavy]

I've been living my spiritual life for probably the last 3-4 years. I've accumlated a lot of knowledge, some insights, some powerful experiences, had moments of extreme clarity, etc. but at the end of the day here I am. My collection of memories, samskaras, karma, whatever term you'd like to use... is still here. It's still thinking it's thoughts, feeling it's feelings, identifying with a stream of conciousness and being a 'self'.

 

Even with the knowledge and experience, I still find myself searching for some even deeper still answer and experience. I feel as though I've either hit a huge wall, or that there's a subtle waiting for something to happen/change.

 

I know I haven't settled on any conclusions, I don't hold any absolute views of anything, but I feel as though something is missing. Some... thing... that keeps fueling the ego. I feel like I've regressed somehow, and I'm back to where I was before I even started but with a few more trinkets in my pocket.

 

Anyone else been here or is there? Any thoughts on is this a plateau, part of a usual progression, etc.?

 

This is very similar to how I used to be recently. And sometimes I still fall into that mode, although it is very unlikely.

 

These are just my reflections. Take them for what they are.

 

There is some waiting. Waiting is good. This is because what you allow to come to you from the depths of your heart and mind is not easy or simple. A baby takes 9 months in the womb before it comes out. But don't think of this as a unique or final event, as in, you'll emerge from your waiting with a new vision, and you're done with waiting forever. It's not like that. Nothing is necessarily forever, although cycles or phases can be arbitrarily long. These can happen from time to time. So it's important not to burden the mind with the idea that something momentous and final will come to you. Instead the mind should be relaxed and open and not too overly burdened by anticipations of any kind (at least, not beyond what is easy and natural to anticipate).

 

So in this waiting, slowly, a new vision of life will emerge. That's what happened with me. I know what I live for. My values are changing. It's not just insights. Insights take time to digest. Go over your insights 10,000 times. Even if you know it already, just looking at it again and again is good. First, it can open new angles you've overlooked. Second, it reinforces a certain way of thinking. This is habit formation. Habits are bad things that lock us up in prison, but they are also good things that liberate us. Run away habits are bad. Conscious and careful habits are good.

 

For me it's become clear what kind of life I want. But it is distant as of yet. To make my vision a reality I have a lot more softening up of my mind to do.

 

I'm in it for the long haul. This is not a sprint. This is a 10 billion year long marathon, or longer. This doesn't mean I'm a slow poke. It just means this is something that's ongoing. It also means I don't look forward to quitting anything. Because my practice is not a burden. Because it's not a chore. It's not formal. It's fun and joy because it's what I make it to be. It is who I am. Because of this, I am well position for a 10 billion year run. In other words, when the idea comes up that I might need to be in my current condition for 10 more billion years, that idea is no longer scary or intolerable. My mind is not easily disturbed if my vision is not one of instant gratification.

 

So every day I enjoy the flavor of my being. I reflect that all is mind. I enjoy this every day. I know this every second of every day. I know it when I eat and when I play games. I know it when I sleep too. I even have fun when I am not having any fun. This is hard to explain, but it's true. That's because my being has many layers now. I am not a simple wave anymore. I am some depth of the ocean if not the entire ocean now. For me it's possible to have one thing happening on the surface and another thing happening at depth, without contradiction.

 

So this is how I take it day by day. Maybe you're like me? If so, maybe you'll find something useful in what I am saying.

 

Row, row, row your boat,

Gently down the stream.

Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily,

Life is but a dream.

[de_paradise]

You can cultivate more, and also focus on the no-self idea. The universe responds more and more, like whoa, when did the universe start responding to my thoughts. I have the idea that I can feel my ego: its a relative thing, tight or loose. Just as when you get angry or frustrated at somebody who cuts you off on the freeway, that tightening anger in stomach feeling. All sense data and interations with the outside world serve to tighten the ego in a similar way, thereby trapping you. The opposite way is to realize, hey, I'm not in a hurry, in fact, if I press on the accelerator I have not lost any time, its funny that I was angry--anger unclenches to loose. So in the same way you can process any interaction or piece of sense data as non-self. The response of the universe is bliss or a kind of contentment, and loads of prana flowing through me. Not a zero sum game.

[Birch]

You can cultivate more, and also focus on the no-self idea. The universe responds more and more, like whoa, when did the universe start responding to my thoughts. I have the idea that I can feel my ego: its a relative thing, tight or loose. Just as when you get angry or frustrated at somebody who cuts you off on the freeway, that tightening anger in stomach feeling. All sense data and interations with the outside world serve to tighten the ego in a similar way, thereby trapping you. The opposite way is to realize, hey, I'm not in a hurry, in fact, if I press on the accelerator I have not lost any time, its funny that I was angry--anger unclenches to loose. So in the same way you can process any interaction or piece of sense data as non-self. The response of the universe is bliss or a kind of contentment, and loads of prana flowing through me. Not a zero sum game.

 

The clenching thing, I haz it ;-)

[C T]

This is very similar to how I used to be recently. And sometimes I still fall into that mode, although it is very unlikely.

 

These are just my reflections. Take them for what they are.

 

There is some waiting. Waiting is good. This is because what you allow to come to you from the depths of your heart and mind is not easy or simple. A baby takes 9 months in the womb before it comes out. But don't think of this as a unique or final event, as in, you'll emerge from your waiting with a new vision, and you're done with waiting forever. It's not like that. Nothing is necessarily forever, although cycles or phases can be arbitrarily long. These can happen from time to time. So it's important not to burden the mind with the idea that something momentous and final will come to you. Instead the mind should be relaxed and open and not too overly burdened by anticipations of any kind (at least, not beyond what is easy and natural to anticipate).

 

So in this waiting, slowly, a new vision of life will emerge. That's what happened with me. I know what I live for. My values are changing. It's not just insights. Insights take time to digest. Go over your insights 10,000 times. Even if you know it already, just looking at it again and again is good. First, it can open new angles you've overlooked. Second, it reinforces a certain way of thinking. This is habit formation. Habits are bad things that lock us up in prison, but they are also good things that liberate us. Run away habits are bad. Conscious and careful habits are good.

 

For me it's become clear what kind of life I want. But it is distant as of yet. To make my vision a reality I have a lot more softening up of my mind to do.

 

I'm in it for the long haul. This is not a sprint. This is a 10 billion year long marathon, or longer. This doesn't mean I'm a slow poke. It just means this is something that's ongoing. It also means I don't look forward to quitting anything. Because my practice is not a burden. Because it's not a chore. It's not formal. It's fun and joy because it's what I make it to be. It is who I am. Because of this, I am well position for a 10 billion year run. In other words, when the idea comes up that I might need to be in my current condition for 10 more billion years, that idea is no longer scary or intolerable. My mind is not easily disturbed if my vision is not one of instant gratification.

 

So every day I enjoy the flavor of my being. I reflect that all is mind. I enjoy this every day. I know this every second of every day. I know it when I eat and when I play games. I know it when I sleep too. I even have fun when I am not having any fun. This is hard to explain, but it's true. That's because my being has many layers now. I am not a simple wave anymore. I am some depth of the ocean if not the entire ocean now. For me it's possible to have one thing happening on the surface and another thing happening at depth, without contradiction.

 

So this is how I take it day by day. Maybe you're like me? If so, maybe you'll find something useful in what I am saying.

 

Row, row, row your boat,

Gently down the stream.

Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily,

Life is but a dream.

Jolly good post GIH.. really enjoyed it, and its pointing in the right direction, so what an exhilarating

potential awaits - have a great journey!

[doc benway]

There is no such thing as "human nature."

 

The suffering towards enlightenment is not suffering, but practice. Practice is not/should not be suffering.

 

You ARE inadequate.

 

DO NOT accept what you are. Question your values.

 

.

 

I can't resists sparring once in a while....

 

There is no such thing as "human nature." What humans do and feel is their nature. Ignoring this is simply denial.

 

The suffering towards enlightenment is not suffering, but practice. Practice is not/should not be suffering.

Wanting/desiring to be something you are not is the nature of suffering. Practice does not yield enlightenment. One does not move towards enlightenment as it is not somewhere one can go to.

 

You ARE inadequate. "I" is perfect.

 

DO NOT accept what you are. Question your values. Acceptance is Wu Wei, acceptance is liberation. Struggle against 'what is' creates violence and suffering. Question everything, understand and, when necessary, refine your values.

[Lucky7Strikes]

I can't resists sparring once in a while....

 

There is no such thing as "human nature." What humans do and feel is their nature. Ignoring this is simply denial.

 

The suffering towards enlightenment is not suffering, but practice. Practice is not/should not be suffering.

Wanting/desiring to be something you are not is the nature of suffering. Practice does not yield enlightenment. One does not move towards enlightenment as it is not somewhere one can go to.

 

You ARE inadequate. "I" is perfect.

 

DO NOT accept what you are. Question your values. Acceptance is Wu Wei, acceptance is liberation. Struggle against 'what is' creates violence and suffering. Question everything, understand and, when necessary, refine your values.

 

What is human? Are you human? What makes the human form? What will you be when this "humanness" ends?

 

No. Desiring is not the root of suffering. Desiring is good, it;s the content that matters. I can desire for the happiness of mankind and arouse compassion. That is good. I can desire to become a BUddha, and that too is good. Practice does yield enlightenment, and practice is itself enlightenment.

 

Are you the "I"?

 

Acceptance is NOT liberation. In fact, there is no such thing as acceptance, acceptance itself is a struggle against what is. Acceptance creates violence and suffering. Action is continuous, and intent is necessary. Why question, why refine, when you can just..."accept?" .

 

Wu Wei is not acceptance. It is acting according to the right means when there is no longer any dualities or contradictions latent within, so that you can act completely as yourself with a unified intent without any fear whatsoever.

Edited December 19, 2009 by Lucky7Strikes

[manitou]

Going back to what the Yaqui sorcerer taught to Carlos Castaneda - Don Juan also had Carlos do a lengthy recapitulation of his life, wherein he had to examine his motives, thank those that needed thanked, apologized to those he had harmed. This created the condition to get the ego out of the way, to restore humility. At some point, as Don Juan says, life becomes the teacher. This method is similar to the 4th, 5th, and 8th(?) steps of AA recovery,wherein one looks for ones one's faults and makes amends to those we have harmed. It may be an absolute requirement for clarity, to tame ego.

[doc benway]

What is human? Are you human? What makes the human form? What will you be when this "humanness" ends?

 

No. Desiring is not the root of suffering. Desiring is good, it;s the content that matters. I can desire for the happiness of mankind and arouse compassion. That is good. I can desire to become a BUddha, and that too is good. Practice does yield enlightenment, and practice is itself enlightenment.

 

Are you the "I"?

 

Acceptance is NOT liberation. In fact, there is no such thing as acceptance, acceptance itself is a struggle against what is. Acceptance creates violence and suffering. Action is continuous, and intent is necessary. Why question, why refine, when you can just..."accept?" .

 

Wu Wei is not acceptance. It is acting according to the right means when there is no longer any dualities or contradictions latent within, so that you can act completely as yourself with a unified intent without any fear whatsoever.

Dear Homer,

Gratuitous assertions are not terribly interesting.

I think this exchange needs to be moved to Taomeow's thread.

Edited December 19, 2009 by steve f

[3bob]

I've been living my spiritual life for probably the last 3-4 years. I've accumlated a lot of knowledge, some insights, some powerful experiences, had moments of extreme clarity, etc. but at the end of the day here I am. My collection of memories, samskaras, karma, whatever term you'd like to use... is still here. It's still thinking it's thoughts, feeling it's feelings, identifying with a stream of conciousness and being a 'self'.

 

Even with the knowledge and experience, I still find myself searching for some even deeper still answer and experience. I feel as though I've either hit a huge wall, or that there's a subtle waiting for something to happen/change.

 

I know I haven't settled on any conclusions, I don't hold any absolute views of anything, but I feel as though something is missing. Some... thing... that keeps fueling the ego. I feel like I've regressed somehow, and I'm back to where I was before I even started but with a few more trinkets in my pocket.

 

Anyone else been here or is there? Any thoughts on is this a plateau, part of a usual progression, etc.?

 

--------------

 

As we reach out - such does not go unnoticed - thus we shall be reached for.

To synchronize takes two hands joining.

[Lucky7Strikes]

Dear Homer,

Gratuitous assertions are not terribly interesting.

I think this exchange needs to be moved to Taomeow's thread.

 

Perhaps you still believe that Jesus is your personal savior.

 

You made some very stupid and thoughtless remarks, so I replied in the same manner. Using words like "human nature," "acceptance," "desire," "the nature of the mind," "wu wei" without much inquiry into them, deserves a good slap to the face.

 

I was hoping you'd reply back in a thoughtful manner on some of the questions I have raised, but instead you replied in a pretentious and condescending manner. Do not confuse silence with wisdom, or stillness with peace (whatever that means). Linguistic jargon is a necessary field that needs to be investigated into, for words and thoughts are closely intertwined and they have forever conditioned us so.