Marblehead Posted December 21, 2009 (edited) Much learning means frequent exhaustion; That is not so good as holding on to the mean. By many words is wit exhausted. Rather, therefore, hold to the core. (Holding to the core, or center, is an important concept in Taoist philosophy.) The Purpose Of Words The purpose of a fish trap is to catch fish, and when the fish are caught, the trap is forgotten. The purpose of a rabbit snare is to catch rabbits. When the rabbits are caught, the snare is forgotten. The purpose of words is to convey ideas. When the ideas are grasped, the words are forgotten. Where can I find a man who has forgotten words? He is the one I would like to talk with. Edited December 21, 2009 by Marblehead Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hyrdo Posted December 21, 2009 "Where can I find a man who has forgotten words? He is the one I would like to talk with." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Owledge Posted December 21, 2009 The purpose of a fish trap is to catch fish, and when the fish are caught, the trap is forgotten. The purpose of a rabbit snare is to catch rabbits. When the rabbits are caught, the snare is forgotten. The purpose of words is to convey ideas. When the ideas are grasped, the words are forgotten. Where can I find a man who has forgotten words? He is the one I would like to talk with. Comparing apples and oranges and generally a bad style of comparison with logical flaws. But surely sounds enlightened. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
soaring crane Posted December 21, 2009 Comparing apples and oranges and generally a bad style of comparison with logical flaws. But surely sounds enlightened. That's good english? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Unconditioned Posted December 21, 2009 Much learning means frequent exhaustion; That is not so good as holding on to the mean. By many words is wit exhausted. Rather, therefore, hold to the core. (Holding to the core, or center, is an important concept in Taoist philosophy.) The Purpose Of Words The purpose of a fish trap is to catch fish, and when the fish are caught, the trap is forgotten. The purpose of a rabbit snare is to catch rabbits. When the rabbits are caught, the snare is forgotten. The purpose of words is to convey ideas. When the ideas are grasped, the words are forgotten. Where can I find a man who has forgotten words? He is the one I would like to talk with. Great reminder Personal experience time: I've found I need to take breaks from the books, discussions, forums, etc. from time to time and come back to them otherwise I do have noticable mental fatigue. I've also noticed, personally, that the constant churning of spiritual ideas just makes my mind race more when I'm around it too much and I honestly just can't think as clearly. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Owledge Posted December 21, 2009 (edited) That's good english? It is satire. Very often the english of people who write "Please excuse my bad english!" is better than that of native english speakers or at least in no way bad. Funnily, sometimes it's even flawless. P.S.: Would you please rework the text in question in a way that you regard as being good english? Or is it just that you applied a very high standard usually uncommon for internet forum postings? Making a difference between correct and perfect? Colloquial english might not be perfect, but it surely can be correct. Edited December 21, 2009 by Hardyg Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted December 21, 2009 Great reminder Personal experience time: I've found I need to take breaks from the books, discussions, forums, etc. from time to time and come back to them otherwise I do have noticable mental fatigue. I've also noticed, personally, that the constant churning of spiritual ideas just makes my mind race more when I'm around it too much and I honestly just can't think as clearly. I agree. I have found that I too will find occasion where it is best to take a break and remain silent. It hasn't happened on this forum yet but if the need presents itself generally for me three to four days are enough for me to regain my center. Peace & Love! P.S.: Making a difference between correct and perfect? Colloquial english might not be perfect, but it surely can be correct. Hehehe. I am never perfect and sometimes I'm not even correct (typos). But as long as I am understood that is all that matters to me. Peace & Love! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
soaring crane Posted December 21, 2009 P.S.: Would you please rework the text in question in a way that you regard as being good english? Or is it just that you applied a very high standard usually uncommon for internet forum postings? Making a difference between correct and perfect? Colloquial english might not be perfect, but it surely can be correct. er, no, it was a joke, based on the claim in your sig line and the incomplete sentences in your post. Fuggetaboutit Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
3bob Posted December 22, 2009 Ah, reminds me of a saying in Ecclesiastes: Eccles 1:18 For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DalTheJigsaw123 Posted December 22, 2009 What a great topic/thread! I enjoy topics like these as it is quite interesting to see reactions of individual. It is important to take breaks from knowledge, as it over powers the truth of it's own merit. It's like moving against the flow of a river. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted December 22, 2009 Lovely responses to the chapter. Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Peace & Love! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TzuJanLi Posted December 22, 2009 Greetings.. The Original Post, by Marblehead, is too well stated to either improve upon or diminish.. enjoy its Clarity.. Be well.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
manitou Posted December 22, 2009 Holding to the core, to me means to let life hit you in the face. What is, is. To look under the words and actions and see the real reasons, motivations. Then to be at peace with that. To let life come to you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted December 22, 2009 Holding to the core, to me means to let life hit you in the face. What is, is. To look under the words and actions and see the real reasons, motivations. Then to be at peace with that. To let life come to you. Well said. To your last sentence though I suggest that there are times when we should go after life but that's another topic. Peace & Love! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
C T Posted December 22, 2009 Thoughts, words and deeds are workings of the outer being. This being can be like a demon when left to its own devices. Unchecked, it casts a dull shadow that obscure the light of the inner self. So all cultivation and practices are likened to ways to tame and subjugate this stubborn devil. Once brought under control, outer being becomes a great friend and protector, there at your side 24/7. Outer being subjugated, inner being rests, the work is done. The house becomes orderly and peaceful. Both outer and inner self becomes one. How harmoniously sublime.. Timely post MH.. thanks! Happy holidays! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sundragon Posted December 23, 2009 (edited) Words are collections of sounds and symbols used to convey a second hand reality (that of the writer/speaker to the reader/listener). Words are wonderful for intellectual knowledge and they can, occasionally, trigger something within the psyche that leads to direct experiencial knowledge...occasionally. There are places that words cannot tread, places that cause to ring hollow even the most eloquent language. If we aren't careful, words in the form of intellectualizations can diminish the power of direct experience by locking us up in our heads where we consider, like armchair magi/theologians/mystics, just how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. Only direct experience can tell us that. Love and Peace, Sundragon Edited December 23, 2009 by Sundragon Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted December 23, 2009 Smiles to both CowTao and Sundragon. Peace & Love! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JustARandomPanda Posted December 23, 2009 Marble I love these Tao te Ching posts! This one in particular is one I badly need to remember often. I live so much in my head and lust after information so much it is very easy to forget the wisdom in this chapter. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tao99 Posted December 23, 2009 (edited) Correct me if i'm wrong, but I don't think these are meant to be the same chapters as the TTC. I think these are the chapters of your own book. Is that correct Marblehead? For example, chapter 24 of the TTC, translated by Wing Tsit Chan is: 24.1 He who stands on tiptoe is not steady. He who strides forward does not go. 24.2 He who shows himself is not luminous. He who justifies himself is not prominent. 24.3 He who boasts of himself is not given credit. He who brags does not endure for long. 24.4 From the point of view of Tao, these are like remnants of food and tumours of action, Which all creatures detest. Therefore those who possess Tao turn away from them. happy holidays everyone Edited December 23, 2009 by Tao99 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted December 24, 2009 Marble I love these Tao te Ching posts! This one in particular is one I badly need to remember often. I live so much in my head and lust after information so much it is very easy to forget the wisdom in this chapter. Thanks. And many of us do what you mentioned in excess. Peace & Love! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted December 24, 2009 Correct me if i'm wrong, but I don't think these are meant to be the same chapters as the TTC. I think these are the chapters of your own book. Is that correct Marblehead? happy holidays everyone You are right but you are wrong. Hehehe. I just couldn't resist that. You are correct in that the "chapters" I am presenting are simply identifiers for different thoughts and concepts and they have nothing in common with the "Chapters" numbering of the TTC. However, what I am presenting is really not a book of mine. It is a collection of different translations of the TTC and Chuang Tzu taken totally out of context to satisfy a goal I had to create a collection of the works into a format that satisfied my needs when I did it (about ten years ago). I will never claim any of it to be 'mine' because that would be a lie. I mentioned before that I wish I had the forethought back then to identify each entry to its translator but I didn't and at this point in time it would probably be an impossible mission if I were to try to notate every passage. So please folks, don't think I am presenting a unique translation of the TTC. This will become very obvious when we get to 'my' Chapter 82. (My collection has 119 Chapters.) Peace & Love! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sundragon Posted December 24, 2009 (edited) Thanks. And many of us do what you mentioned in excess. Peace & Love! Though intellectually I realize that mystics of various traditions all seem to come to very similar, if not the same, conclusions; I am often emotionally struck by just how many similarities I have, as a Hermetic Qabalist, with some of the Taoist and Buddhist cultivators on this forum. I think that because I didn't allow myself to get locked into "My teacher/favorite author/favorite scripture says this ism" I didn't lock out my own intuitive knowing and have benefitted greatly by that openness. Though I love intellectual stimulation I realize that becoming dogmatic about things is foolishness because anything which is known intellectually can be overturned by the next bit of information. Ultimately, as mystics (because that is what we are) I think that we have much more in comman than we have differences. It is usually dogma...(you know the finger pointing at the moon??)... and not our personal experience of the Self/not-Self/Tao that causes arguments. That which is known through experience draws us together. Love and Peace, Sundragon Edited December 24, 2009 by Sundragon Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted December 24, 2009 Nice post Sundragon. Thanks for sharing. Peace & Love! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DalTheJigsaw123 Posted December 24, 2009 Marble I love these Tao te Ching posts! This one in particular is one I badly need to remember often. I live so much in my head and lust after information so much it is very easy to forget the wisdom in this chapter. Same here. However, I'm working on letting go and detaching myself from knowledge. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
