Qi is NOT Energy

[宁]

I know, it sounds silly.

I asked the same question three years ago, here.

What is Qi?

[ralis]

I know, it sounds silly.

I asked the same question three years ago, here.

What is Qi?

 

 

How do you know it isn't?

 

ralis

[soaring crane]

And what was the answer three years ago?

 

I don't really know "what" Qi is, Qi just is. As opposed to "energy" which isn't. So, you see, I agree with your subject line

 

I can rattle off lists of definitions of "what Qi is", and anyone can search it and get some info, but none of the definitions express my own experience with it.

 

It's a substance. It's Yang exhaling and Yin inhaling. It was there before either of them. Qi is.

[松永道]

I know, it sounds silly.

I asked the same question three years ago, here.

What is Qi?

 

Qi is everything. Qi is matter, energy, and consciousness. That's the broadest definition.

 

However, it doesn't always refer to everything.

 

The first division is Yin and Yang, it determines relationship quality.

 

The second division is Three Treasures, Jing, Qi, and Shen. These describe a spectrum, gross to subtle. Jing gross, heavy, material and physical. Shen is subtle, light and immaterial. Qi fills the gray area in between.

 

The third division is Five Movements. Wood, Fire, Earth, Metal, Water. Four of these are dynamic states. Wood is emerging, sprouting, rising, Spring. Fire is floating, expanding, Summer. Metal is sinking, collecting, Fall. Water is storing, concealing, containing, Winter. Earth is the pivot of transformation. It is the environment upon which the seasons act, and it's also the transformation agent.

 

The division carries on and on.

 

It's all Qi. Perhaps with the exception of Dao, Qi is the broadest concept in ancient Chinese thought.

[宁]

Lin Aiwei told me Qi is Mind.

There is another Chinese Qigong teacher that said 'Qi is a phenomenon that arises where Mind and Matter touch' or 'at the frontier between Body and Mind'

Winn also says Qi is Mind...

 

It's silly, see... were practicing Qigong, and we don't know what Qi is.

It has been Very Loosely translated as 'Energy'.

But Energy is only a manifestation of Qi, so is 'the sensation of Qi'.

 

And, what about Zhuang Zi, when he says 'When the shoe fits, you no longer feel it, forget about it'

 

What about very ancient traditions that say: Our Qi is encapsulated in definite boundaries. We cannot add or draw out Qi from a person. It can scatter, inside it's definite boundaries, no matter where these boundaries are...

 

And what about people that say Qi has a different deffinition at different levels of practice, and it's an oral transmission, something you have to experience First, and Then explain...

 

Definition is diffent every time you practice makes a leap forward...

 

Seriously... i think we settled with the equation Qi = Energy without much fight. Is it really Energy?

 

Thanx S.Y.D. !

[ralis]

Lin Aiwei told me Qi is Mind.

There is another Chinese Qigong teacher that said 'Qi is a phenomenon that arises where Mind and Matter touch' or 'at the frontier between Body and Mind'

Winn also says Qi is Mind...

 

It's silly, see... were practicing Qigong, and we don't know what Qi is.

It has been Very Loosely translated as 'Energy'.

But Energy is only a manifestation of Qi, so is 'the sensation of Qi'.

 

And, what about Zhuang Zi, when he says 'When the shoe fits, you no longer feel it, forget about it'

 

What about very ancient traditions that say: Our Qi is encapsulated in definite boundaries. We cannot add or draw out Qi from a person. It can scatter, inside it's definite boundaries, no matter where these boundaries are...

 

And what about people that say Qi has a different deffinition at different levels of practice, and it's an oral transmission, something you have to experience First, and Then explain...

 

Definition is diffent every time you practice makes a leap forward...

 

Seriously... i think we settled with the equation Qi = Energy without much fight. Is it really Energy?

 

Thanx S.Y.D. !

 

 

I would say, do your practice, have a direct experience with Qi and stop analyzing. Just do.

 

 

ralis

[宁]

I would say, do your practice, have a direct experience with Qi and stop analyzing. Just do.

ralis

 

Im not a philosopher, don't worry... I have my long steady practice since a long time now.

But there is a saying in Qigong that goes like this:

"Understanding is 95% of the practice."

The wisdom mind needs to grow. It needs nourishment.

[NeiChuan]

Yeah qi is not energy.. Energy is QI though.

 

No way it gets more abstract then this eh?

[soaring crane]

Yeah qi is not energy.. Energy is QI though.

No way it gets more abstract then this eh?

 

I don't think it's so abstract, not for me. I'm very clear on it and my personal experience has been constant for years. The term "energy" is abstract, it's a form of measurement, it's packaged in "units".

 

Calories are energy, a Frenchman invented the formula that measures them. When human life disappears, so will "energy". Qi will still be around though. And maybe some other species will evolve that will find new ways of measuring it without really identifying it.

 

I do remember reading an article about "quantum fields" that sounded eerily as though modern physicists are on the verge of determining that, according to their abstract calculations, yes, "Qi" must exist. What they do with the info is anybody's guess.

 

I prefer to get my learning from people who have known about it for 5,000+ years

[Riyue]

I know, it sounds silly.

I asked the same question three years ago, here.

What is Qi?

Julian Pas in Historical Dictionary of Taoism:

...

qi4 氣

In the Huainanzi qi is the creative force that generated the universe.

From an initial state of chaos, spacetime developped that produced the primordial qi.

Out of this primordial qi, yang-qi and yin-qi came forth, dividing into heaven and earth...

All the later 10.000 beings were produced by heaven and earth, and thus contain yin and yang energies in their very being.

This analysis clearly shows the double nature or dimension of qi ( as it also explains the ultimate oneness of all beings).

----

In Neo-Confucianism, especially in the work of 朱熹 zhu1 xi1, the same word qi is used in a cosmic dimension, but very different from Taoism: It is part of the dichotomy of li (principle) and qi (primary "matter"). All beings are constituted by li and qi. li is their essential nature, a sort of blueprint; qi makes the actual embodiment of li possible in concrete beings.

li3 理

[宁]

qi4 氣

In the Huainanzi ...

 

Thanks! I'm actually looking for the Huainanzi, from what you know, is it available anywhere in English?

(Free e-book is the best format eheh)

 

L1

 

PS: 'The force that generated the universe' = actually is not a definition, is it? it's what it does, not what it is...

[Ya Mu]

Qi is the fabric of the universe and THAT utilized in the creation process which results in manifestation utilizing INTENT.

Of course qi is energy. It has measurable energy components. But it is also more.

 

For example the moves in the Qi Kung Fu system, Gift of the Tao are energetic patterns as seen on higher vibratory planes. These vibratory patterns help create utilizing INTENT, and give the practitioner more "qi":

[soaring crane]

 

'The force that generated the universe' = actually is not a definition, is it?

 

lol, you are correct!

[Unconditioned]

Qi is everything. Qi is matter, energy, and consciousness. That's the broadest definition.

 

However, it doesn't always refer to everything.

 

The first division is Yin and Yang, it determines relationship quality.

 

The second division is Three Treasures, Jing, Qi, and Shen. These describe a spectrum, gross to subtle. Jing gross, heavy, material and physical. Shen is subtle, light and immaterial. Qi fills the gray area in between.

 

The third division is Five Movements. Wood, Fire, Earth, Metal, Water. Four of these are dynamic states. Wood is emerging, sprouting, rising, Spring. Fire is floating, expanding, Summer. Metal is sinking, collecting, Fall. Water is storing, concealing, containing, Winter. Earth is the pivot of transformation. It is the environment upon which the seasons act, and it's also the transformation agent.

 

The division carries on and on.

 

It's all Qi. Perhaps with the exception of Dao, Qi is the broadest concept in ancient Chinese thought.

 

Wow, that's one of the clearest explainations I've ever read, thank you!

[doc benway]

My interpretation/experience of Qi would probably be closer to Lin Ai Wei's definition.

I've described it in boring detail in previous threads over the past few years and will only very briefly summarize.

 

I don't believe Qi to be energy in the normal Western sense of the word (the amount of work that can be performed by a force) nor do I experience it as stuff. In fact, there is no stuff in the universe but that's for another discussion.

 

My current feeling is that Qi is a process or rather an interaction between awareness and physical being. In this sense, my definition of cultivating or building Qi has more to do with becoming sensitive than storing something as if it were a substance in a container. I know that goes against the grain but that's just my personal experience based on cultivation and where I'm at in my own mind and body.

[TzuJanLi]

Greetings..

 

Qi is a word the ancients used to describe what we 'now' know as energy.. energy in its most subtle and profiund manifestations.. not everything is some esoteric mystical secret..

 

One of my mentors held a live bird in one hand and dead bird in the other.. which one has Qi, he asked.. it's really that simple.. the more we complicate it the further away our understanding gets..

 

Be well..

[xenolith]

Hi Little 1. Wonderful question. Missed it the first time. My experience informs me that qi is a motive force...meaning that it's able to do two things: (1) be generated from the movement of masses relative to each other...in the same manner that electrical and magnetic fields are generated...in male human beings' practice of internal alchemy qi is generated by movement of seminal fluid molecules relative to each other...and (2) carry the force of the field thus generated to other locations within the body.

 

My experience further informs me that this motive force does indeed act like a field, once generated within the gonad palace it eminates up the path of least electro-chemical resistance...utilizing the neural pathways of the spinal column...until it reaches the electro-chemically rich environment of the cranium upon which massive cerebral-neural stimulation ocurrs (CCA) and where the most conducive outlet for neutrilization of the activated charge release along myriad neural cerebral pathways is via the vagus nerve...thereby engaging (stimulating) the gonad palace...the original source of the motive force (qi)...a self propogating system of gonad-cerebral-neural stimulation is thereby produced...dick tug = brain tug.

 

Better be a SKF adept though cuz there's an outlet for removal of seminal fluids from the gonad-cerebral-neural stimulation qui field producing process that adherance to is such a deeply genetically programmed biological imperitive that to suggest obtaining mastery of its avoidance is practicably unimaginable to most, let alone achievable...but understand: no fluid to move, no field, no qi.

 

_/\_

Edited December 22, 2009 by xenolith

[z00se]

Lin Aiwei told me Qi is Mind.

There is another Chinese Qigong teacher that said 'Qi is a phenomenon that arises where Mind and Matter touch' or 'at the frontier between Body and Mind'

Winn also says Qi is Mind...

 

It's silly, see... were practicing Qigong, and we don't know what Qi is.

 

I think everyone who does qigong knows what Qi is. Just because you can't put it in words we have experienced it so we know what it is. Putting it into words goes against the nature of tao.

 

If you explain anything you have to use other words that you could equally argue 'we don't know what it is'. Scientists don't know exactly what is electricity but we use it and experience it.

 

We just give all these things a name - it doesn't need to be explained... it just is.

 

Thats my 2 cents till next year when you ask the question again

[Aetherous]

I liked Ya Mu and 松永道's answers.

[Stigweard]

[Iskote]

"Qi is NOT Energy, What is it?"

I know, it sounds silly.

I asked the same question three years ago, here.

What is Qi?

 

Nice question. Consider this. Is it any easier to answer this question: What is energy?

We can use the definition from physical science and say that energy is the capacity to do work.

That's nice and simple and neat, but is that all there is to it? It is also said that energy can take

various forms or it has various sub-classifications such as potential, kinetic, heat, light, electric,

mechanical, etc. Einstein further complicated things by showing that all matter is really a

form of energy as well in his equation E=MC^2. Not only is all matter energy, but we also

know energy can traverse a vacuum. For example, the sun radiates electromagnetic

energy to the Earth at various frequencies, including in the light spectrum, through the vacuum of space,

and we can comunicate via radio to spacecraft in deep space as well. So not only is all

matter energy, but energy can 'pass through' a vacuum where no matter exists, so it is seemingly not

dependent on matter.

 

The concept of qi may be much deeper than the concept of energy as viewed in physcal science,

yet there are certainly strong parallels. Like energy, Qi is described as taking many different forms such

as primordial qi, yang qi, yin qi, heaven qi, sun qi, earth qi, moon qi, etc., and is also described as

something which is contained in all things. That sort of sounds similar in many ways to how we use the

term energy, does it not? What we know of energy is mainly based on observation of its effects and

then piecing our concept together as best we can based on our observations or 'experience' with it.

Likewise we can try to piece together a concept of qi based on our observations or 'experience'

with it, although the concept of qi is not limited strictly to its physical expression as it is in physical science. 'Energy' is a concept that helps us conceptualize certain observed phenomena, and likewise for

the concept of 'qi'. Ultimately concepts are limited but serve the purpose of helping us to make some degree

of sense of our experience, and also allow us to communicate with others about our experience in some sort

of meaningful way. If we keep in mind that such concepts are limited, and even in science many such

concepts are often revised again and again over time as our understanding grows, then we allow room

for moving into further understanding.

 

I guess I could have said all this more simply by just saying 'qi' is a concept that helps us to

try to make sense out of certain aspects of our experience.

Someone else perhaps offered some good advice when they said we should not try to over

analyze such things.

 

Best wishes...

Edited December 22, 2009 by Iskote

[Tao99]

Edited December 22, 2009 by Tao99

[fiveelementtao]

It's easy to get lost in the meaning of "Qi". Qi means the same as Prana. In Latin the term for breath is "respirare" which literally means to "Re-Spirit". "Re-Spiration" is still the medical term for breath. In the hospital when someone dies, they "expire (Ex-Spirare)" which literally means "Exiting Spirit". So we still have this idea that Breath is Spirit or Life Force... This idea of breath and spirit as one and the same is not just in Chinese or Sanskrit. We in the west, used to believe in a "life Force" that was infused into the body with breath. Qi is just the Chinese word for the same thing all cultures originally knew to exist as "life Force, Breath, Spirit or energy.

[Riyue]

Thanks! I'm actually looking for the Huainanzi, from what you know, is it available anywhere in English?

 

 

http://www.powells.com/biblio?isbn=9780231142045

The Huainanzi: A Guide to the Theory and Practice of Government in Early Han China, by Liu An, King of Huainan (Translations from the Asian Classics)

by An Liu

 

ISBN13: 9780231142045

ISBN10: 0231142048

The first complete English translation of The Huainanzi, product of twelve years of scholarship, ...

[TzuJanLi]

Greetings..

 

The mind is adept at over-analyzing simplicity.. Rice eaten and air breathed, food and air, is, in it's intended simplicity, energy.. remove either and there's no energy to animate the body, no Qi..

 

Be well..