Qi is NOT Energy

[宁]

Every high alchemy master that i heard of was a scholar. There were cases in which they were illiterate, yet they could reproduce hundreds of scrolls of taoist philosophy by heart.

The daoist adept is said to join three aspects: the monk, the sage and the martial artist. Each reffers to a type of training related to one of the three treasures.

 

You don't need to make war with your mind. Nor with your curiosity.

Just use them to fuel your practice.

It's the same as with sex: there are people that say sex is forbidden, and people that use it to get stronger and healthier...

Heads in the sand anyone?

 

Dao can be spoken - Because after that sentence, a whole book has been writen... Not to mention thousands and thousands of skrolls... and the Daozang

 

Dao is not eternal - Everything changes, on Earth, in the Heavens, Everywhere... Nothing stays the same, nothing is eternal...

 

 

 

If Dao was unspeakable, no one could learn about it... If you say Dao cannot be spoken about, you deny your acces to it, it's that simple. Nice programming eh?

[Stigweard]

[宁]

Stig,

 

It's not my translation, it's Stephen T. Chang's. And to me it's a breath of fresh air... I like ineffable NOT.

I agree there are things that cannot be spoken about, but if we give up too soon...

 

L1

[soaring crane]

Greetings..

my 'Ah ha' moment was my mentor's example of the two birds, one alive, one deceased.. the answer was clear and wordless, it was obvious which had Qi, and it requred no 'definition' to understand..

 

Yes, it's obvious to me as well They both have Qi. The dead bird affected you with its Qi in a way differently than the living bird, but they both had/have Qi. A concrete building has Qi, and it's deader than a dead bird. A landscape has Qi, and it's full of rocks. Clouds... very nice Qi up there. The stars, the Big Dipper... Qi everywhere we look.

 

Did the mentor teach that only living, breathing, sentient creatures have Qi? That's not a rhetorical question, please understand that. Is Qi only internal and isolated in our bodies like a fluid which then disappears we they die? I really don't understand the example, but I understand that you were profoundly moved by it.

Edited December 23, 2009 by soaring crane

[JustARandomPanda]

I have often wondered if what I feel during my KAP exercises qualifies as Chi. Take Secret Smile for example...I feel what I would swear is a trickle of..hmm...some kind of energy circulate. Or take the front of my body. Many times I have this sensation of a "ball of energy" ping ponging back and forth up and down my front torso. Is this Chi? If not then what is it?

[Stigweard]

I have often wondered if what I feel during my KAP exercises qualifies as Chi. Take Secret Smile for example...I feel what I would swear is a trickle of..hmm...some kind of energy circulate. Or take the front of my body. Many times I have this sensation of a "ball of energy" ping ponging back and forth up and down my front torso. Is this Chi? If not then what is it?

For some strange reason the lyrics of a Whitesnake song came to mind (I supplanted Qi for love):

 

Is this Qi that I'm feeling

Is this the Qi that I've been searching for

Is this Qi or am I dreaming

This must be Qi

Cos it's really go a hold on me

A hold on me

 

 

Sorry ... carry on

[Iskote]

...

You don't need to make war with your mind. Nor with your curiosity.

Just use them to fuel your practice.

It's the same as with sex: there are people that say sex is forbidden, and people that use it to get stronger and healthier...

Heads in the sand anyone?

...

Hello L1. To be clear, I am not against the use of the rational mind. I am just saying that in my opinion

its use is limited. We can use the rational mind to understand how to do the postures in qigong or meditation

correctly, and we can use our rational mind to get some understanding of what steps we may need to follow

at various stages, and to get at least some sort of an idea of what it is we can expect to acheive in our

practice, and also to be aware of things we may need to watch out for in our practice to avoid potential

problems.

 

I agree it can be helpful at first to have at least some degree of conceptual understanding of what we are

working with, and what is going on inside us, but if we try to take the analysis and attachment to the idea too

far I think we couldl just end up leading ourself astray or even hindering our progress, since we are putting

too much focus on the concepts, which I think can be a real hinderance to the process which should unfold naturally and without interference and attachment by the mind. I think the Tao Te Ching also does comment on the importance of freeing ourself from attachments. Perhaps it is for that reason.

 

...

It's the same as with sex: there are people that say sex is forbidden, and people that use it to get stronger and healthier...

Heads in the sand anyone?

...

Different traditions have taken different approaches, but it is the results that are important. If one is

confident that the approach they are taking is bringing real results, that is all that matters as far as

I am concerned. The question is though, can we recognize what is real progress and what is just wishful

thinking when we are still at the lower stages? I guess that is where we have to place our trust in our

teacher and our intuition on what we feel is right...

 

Best wishes to all and may all your thoughts be good ones...

[~jK~]

I know, it sounds silly.

I asked the same question three years ago, here.

What is Qi?

 

L1, it seems that many are seeing a god where there is none.

There are only 2 substances in this universe: Matter and Energy.

 

What is confusing about Qi is that it can be manipulated by our mind.

As such, Qi is only a toy to be played with and used by those waiting to evolve.

To become the master of Qi, first a person must become master of the self through meditation.

Edited December 24, 2009 by ~jK~

[TzuJanLi]

Greetings..

 

Did the mentor teach that only living, breathing, sentient creatures have Qi? That's not a rhetorical question, please understand that. Is Qi only internal and isolated in our bodies like a fluid which then disappears we they die? I really don't understand the example, but I understand that you were profoundly moved by it.

The mentor taught many things..some as you suggest, but.. the interpretation is mine. I am not really interested in the mental masturbation of simplicity.. i observe a lot of BS projections of poorly understood concepts.. it is only in recent years that such lofty definitions of Qi has emerged, because simplicity neither sells nor embellishes one's pride of knowledge.. Qi is Life, its very essence.. i speculate not much further on its definition.

 

There are only 2 substances in this universe: Matter and Energy.

There is but one 'substance', Energy.. Matter is energy vibrating at frequencies that manifest form, shape and mass.. like an ice-cube in water, only the vibrational frequency manifests the change in states of existence, it's the same 'stuff'..

 

Be well..

Edited December 24, 2009 by TzuJanLi

[Iskote]

There is but one 'substance', Energy.. Matter is energy vibrating at frequencies that manifest form, shape and mass.. like an ice-cube in water, only the vibrational frequency manifests the change in states of existence, it's the same 'stuff'..

I'm not a physicist, but from the point of view of physical science I believe it would be correct to say

that everything is energy, and matter is just one form (or maybe state?) that energy can take.

However, I don't know about your statement that "matter is energy vibrating at frequencies that

manifiest form"? The formula E=MC^2 does not have any reference to frequency in it.

 

Anyway that is nieither here nor there. Getting back to the main topic of this thread,

does knowing that everything in this world is really just a form of energy make even the slightest

difference about the questions: What is qi? What is energy? Is qi the same as energy, or is

energy just one 'form' that qi can manifiest? You still end up no further along after all the

analysis as far as I can see anyway. That's where meditation comes in I believe. Instead of continuiing

to bang our head against a brick wall, we can instead let go and let the brick wall just dissolve away,

or something like that anyway.

 

Best wishes...

Edited December 24, 2009 by Iskote

[Andrei]

I highly recommend this interview, at the min 10:00 the question is "do you believe in acupuncture points?" and the answer is "I have to because they are there" ... anyhow, you should watch from the beginning...

 

XJyCG_OHXGg

 

To me "electricity" or "electromagnetism" have a broader meaning which includes static electricity, electricity from the socket, radiowaves, high energy radiation and so on.

 

I humbly suggest fractals, chaos, and power laws, not electricity and magnetism

 

Yes that's exactly what I have in my mind, but electro-magnetism is the law of the fabric, the all pervading substance that creates the fractals

 

1Z53wTtGGA0

[Ya Mu]

Further thoughts on qi.

 

One can never describe qi with words. It is totally impossible because qi is non-linear.

 

Qi IS energy. It is electromagnetic energy. In one of my workshops we did standing wave field measurements that changed every time I projected qi to the class. What was interesting was that each time a standing wave was set up it took about 20 min to dampen. But does this mean anything? Not much, other than to say qi has an electromagnetic component. Qi also has an acoustical wave component. Infrasonic waves have been measured in an acoustical lab. But does this mean anything? Not much, other than to say qi has an acoustical component.

 

But my experiments with qi projection have shown that there is absolutely no time differential when doing distance qi projection. It absolutely arrives the same instance that it is projected, no matter where in the world the receiver is (and, I think it would not matter where a person is dimensionally). So qi does operate on the quantum level. But what does this mean? Not much other than to tell us that components of qi operate on the non-linear quantum level.

 

In the end one must experience qi for themselves and any talk about qi is only talking around it, not about it. Qi is far more than can ever be expressed by words.

[Iskote]

Further thoughts on qi.

One can never describe qi with words. It is totally impossible because qi is non-linear.

Hello Ya Mu. I agree that athough we can give it a name and we can describe some of its

effects and behaviour that we can observe and feel, it still does not tell us what qi is.

 

 

...

Qi IS energy. It is electromagnetic energy. In one of my workshops we did standing wave field measurements that changed every time I projected qi to the class. What was interesting was that each time a standing wave was set up it took about 20 min to dampen. But does this mean anything? Not much, other than to say qi has an electromagnetic component. Qi also has an acoustical wave component. Infrasonic waves have been measured in an acoustical lab. But does this mean anything? Not much, other than to say qi has an acoustical component.

Without knowing all the specific details of your experiment and what exact measuring equipment you

were using to make your measurements and all that good stuff, it is of course not possible to comment

about your results. However, there is a very distinct difference between saying qi is electromagnetic

energy and saying electromagnetic energy can be manifested by qi. If by manipulating qi one can set up a measurable electromagnetic field, is the electromagnetic field a created effect (or manifestation) or is it

a component of qi itself? Those are two very different things, and you can't draw any quick conclusion

just simply because an electromagnetic field was measured. Also, these days with almost every bit

of physical space on Earth being constantly radiated from all kinds of electromagnetic sources such as radio stations, satellites, cell phone towers, cell phones, wifi routers, etc. to do a controlled experiment you would really have to conduct such experiments in a faraday cage to eliminate skewed results and artifacts from all the external electromagnetic sources that are out there. To say that qi is electromagnetic energy is different

than saying electromagnetic energy is a component of qi, and it is also different again to say that

qi can manifest electromagnetic energy or infrasonic effects, etc. Based on the results of any formal

scientific experiments I have read about so far, I would say it would seem it is more likely the latter case,

that qi can manifest various physical effects, but qi itself is not those physical phenomena.

 

All that aside, I would be interested in hearing more details about how you conducted your experiment and

how you measured the electromagnetic field, if you have the time and are interested in sharing more details

here.

 

Anyway, I think for all intents and purposes it is sufficient to think of qi as some form of 'energy'

which itself can take different forms and behave in different ways. That works for me anyway.

 

 

 

...

To me "electricity" or "electromagnetism" have a broader meaning which includes static electricity, electricity from the socket, radiowaves, high energy radiation and so on.

...

Hello Steam. When someone states that qi is electricity or an electromagnetic field, or ascribes

any other physical components to it, then we should be able to verify that fairly easily by

using the appropriate measuring equipment under controlled conditions, assuming the magnitudes are

within a range that can be measured by existing equipment. It is also quite different to say that qi can

manifest measurable electric or electromagnetic effects, etc. than to say that these are actual

components of qi or that is what qi is. Very different things.

 

 

Best wishes...

Edited December 24, 2009 by Iskote

[Tao99]

Anyway, I think for all intents and purposes it is sufficient to think of qi as some form of 'energy'

which itself can take different forms and behave in different ways. ... It is also quite different to say that qi can

manifiest measurable electric or electromagnetic effects, etc. than to say that these are actual

components of qi or that is what qi is. Very different things.

 

With definitions, purpose or context is important, and why some words have more then one definition. What if qi is such a word and has a general meaning for Chinese philosophy, and another for alchemical meaning? I think we need to keep these two clear. Your general definition of qi as "some form of 'energy' which itself can take different forms and behave in different ways" is useful for philosophy (metaphysics/ontology), but maybe not for specifically alchemy/meditation. This might employ another definition on this level.

 

 

When I taught seniors and the very sick Tai Chi meditation at a hospital, I kept both the movements and the concepts very simple and for the sole purpose of health. So qi (for our purposes I said) was defined as the bio-electricity running in our nervous system or "meridians".

 

I said it feels like "rising steam" and it can be refined and circulated through the meridians to create a relaxed state of tranquility or Quietude, which Western science calls the relaxation response - a bio-electrical response that can be measured by external sensors. And that was about as much alchemical theory as they got, but enough for them to self-produce the relaxation response ("refined qi") completely on their own. Some might say I did the wrong thing, but their internal state did measurably improve and that was the goal, so I think I did the right thing.

 

 

happy holidays everyone!

Edited December 24, 2009 by Tao99

[Iskote]

With definitions, purpose or context is important, and why some words have more then one definition. What if qi is such a word and has a general meaning for Chinese philosophy, and another for alchemical meaning? I think we need to keep these two clear. Your general definition of qi as "some form of 'energy' which itself can take different forms and behave in different ways" is useful for philosophy (metaphysics/ontology), but maybe not for specifically alchemy/meditation. This might employ another definition on this level.

 

Hello Tao99. I actually think it is the other way around. Viewing qi as 'energy' that can take different

forms and behave in different ways kind of covers all the bases of how qi is thought of

and used in qigong and related practices, and terms such as 'vital energy' and 'subtle energy' etc,

are how most teachers seem to describe qi. In philosophy qi may take on more abstract definitions.

Again, however one wants to look at it, I think the important thing is to not get too attached to

the concepts for reasons I have already stated...

 

 

Best wishes...

Edited December 24, 2009 by Iskote

[Ya Mu]

Hello Ya Mu. I agree that athough we can give it a name and we can describe some of its

effects and behaviour that we can observe and feel, it still does not tell us what qi is.

Without knowing all the specific details of your experiment and what exact measuring equipment you

were using to make your measurements and all that good stuff, it is of course not possible to comment

about your results. However, there is a very distinct difference between saying qi is electromagnetic

energy and saying electromagnetic energy can be manifested by qi. If by manipulating qi one can set up a measurable electromagnetic field, is the electromagnetic field a created effect (or manifestation) or is it

a component of qi itself? Those are two very different things, and you can't draw any quick conclusion

just simply because an electromagnetic field was measured. Also, these days with almost every bit

of physical space on Earth being constantly radiated from all kinds of electromagnetic sources such as radio stations, satellites, cell phone towers, cell phones, wifi routers, etc. to do a controlled experiment you would really have to conduct such experiments in a faraday cage to eliminate skewed results and artifacts from all the external electromagnetic sources that are out there. To say that qi is electromagnetic energy is different

than saying electromagnetic energy is a component of qi, and it is also different again to say that

qi can manifest electromagnetic energy or infrasonic effects, etc. Based on the results of any formal

scientific experiments I have read about so far, I would say it would seem it is more likely the latter case,

that qi can manifest various physical effects, but qi itself is not those physical phenomena.

 

All that aside, I would be interested in hearing more details about how you conducted your experiment and

how you measured the electromagnetic field, if you have the time and are interested in sharing more details

here.

 

Anyway, I think for all intents and purposes it is sufficient to think of qi as some form of 'energy'

which itself can take different forms and behave in different ways. That works for me anyway.

Hello Steam. When someone states that qi is electricity or an electromagnetic field, or ascribes

any other physical components to it, then we should be able to verify that fairly easily by

using the appropriate measuring equipment under controlled conditions, assuming the magnitudes are

within a range that can be measured by existing equipment. It is also quite different to say that qi can

manifest measurable electric or electromagnetic effects, etc. than to say that these are actual

components of qi or that is what qi is. Very different things.

Best wishes...

 

I believe it to be that qi has electromagnetic components. I also believe that qi has components that we have no way of measuring (at least not yet). I believe that INTENT is responsible for the manifestation utilizing qi. And I am defining INTENT as it's own thing; THAT through which manifestation occurs utilizing qi. I firmly believe that both developed INTENT and cultivated qi are required to manifest a healing. I do know that INTENT is also a quantum level event as per my experiments with distance qi projection.

 

I am NOT putting a large emphasis on the field measurements. All I can tell you it was with state of the art sensors, computer software for logging, etc. As far as it being invalid because it was not performed in a faraday cage; I don't think so. The ambient field was measured then qi projection sessions of about 1-2 hours all day long were measured as well as the time in between sessions (continuous measurement all day long). The measurements on the time line corresponded 1 to 1 with the standing wave start time. In other words, the standing wave start time coincided each time with when I started projecting qi. Another interesting thing was that the wave changed when I changed my INTENT during any one session with the qi projection.

 

I do not put to much emphasis on this because, as I stated, there are many more components of qi and this was only one. Also, what did it mean? Not much. The important thing was what the people who received the qi projection got from it. I am really not interested in these type experiments. About the only experiments I am interested in doing are the results of qi projection in medical qigong. A study on bone healing would be good.

 

Fuuuuny, as I was about to hit enter someone called me and asked would I help them build a magnetic field device for experimental purposes.

[宁]

A short discussion, to stir up some comments:

 

- what is qi. i feel it somehow lack a definite interpretation,

 

it definitely has very precise definitions but are kept as part of the oral transmission within most schools

 

>is like the chinese ideograms, it can mean everything and its meaning can change many times. also if you want, it CAN mean precisely one thing, its like putting water inside a cup, so you can use it. you cannot easily use water without a container. a meaning of Qi is a container of Qi, which allows one to use it for a definite purpose.

 

this is also true, the definition changes with the level and has close correlation to

Xing-form

Xiang-imagine

Mudi-purpose

Ming-names

Huilun-position in the chain of dependent origination

>today i felt i got nearer and nearer to a more global definition of Qi, following one of its main features. Change.

Qi is Changing, and Changes, and Seems to Like Changing.

 

:-) partly correct,

Qi is both Changing and Unchanging

Houtian Qi is changing and created

Xiantian Qi is unchanging and uncreated,

furthermore Xiantian Qi that is unchanging and uncreated is within Houtian Qi which is changing and created

 

>What is the Unchanging?

 

all the realm of the Xiantian which contains many things such as Ling, Zhen, Qi, Shen, Benwo....

 

>Is Yi Jing (the book of changes) going to help the understanding of the Change and the Unchanging?

 

am sure with such a mercurial mind you will find much inspiration in it

>If Qi becomes still, what happens to it?

it changes in to....

Edited December 24, 2009 by Little1

[Taomeow]

A couple of answers I got from some teacher: (the questions are in bold)

- what is qi. i feel it somehow lack a definite interpretation,

 

it definitely has very precise definitions but are kept as part of the oral transmission within most schools

 

>is like the chinese ideograms, it can mean everything and its meaning can change many times. also if you want, it CAN mean precisely one thing, its like putting water inside a cup, so you can use it. you cannot easily use water without a container. a meaning of Qi is a container of Qi, which allows one to use it for a definite purpose.

 

this is also true, the definition changes with the level and has close correlation to

Xing-form

Xiang-imagine

Mudi-purpose

Ming-names

Huilun-position in the chain of dependent origination

>today i felt i got nearer and nearer to a more global definition of Qi, following one of its main features. Change.

Qi is Changing, and Changes, and Seems to Like Changing.

 

:-) partly correct,

Qi is both Changing and Unchanging

Houtian Qi is changing and created

Xiantian Qi is unchanging and uncreated,

furthermore Xiantian Qi that is unchanging and uncreated is within Houtian Qi which is changing and created

 

>What is the Unchanging?

 

all the realm of the Xiantian which contains many things such as Ling, Zhen, Qi, Shen, Benwo....

 

>Is Yi Jing (the book of changes) going to help the understanding of the Change and the Unchanging?

 

am sure with such a mercurial mind you will find much inspiration in it

>If Qi becomes still, what happens to it?

it changes in to....

 

This is pretty close to my understanding, but then, whenever one talks of qi in its proprietary taoist terms without giving it a paternalistic pat on the shoulder from western-scientific viewpoint, it will be. (I always envision this young bully, "western science," with a smirk on his face and a gun where his balls should be, condescendingly patting a robe-clad hoary five-thousand-year old sage on the shoulder -- move along, pops, you don't know nothin' about nothin'. Nevermind that the gunpowder was invented by the latter and not used for three hundred years afterwards because of "cowardly demonic qi" discerned within it (sic!) -- until some Europeans bribed an emperor, and that's how our collective glory began.)

 

It is such a beautiful sequence, xiantian to houtian, and it explains everything (though not everything can be "experienced" -- slap me silly, the initial impulse that sends the stillness of xiantian into houtian motion, coming from the trigram of Thunder, is mystery of mysteries! I've been meditating on it for years and I still feel being sucked into a vortex of mystery whenever I'm beginning to perceive that. It may be that a popular "qi is electricity" idea is derived from that impulse, unconsciously known to all from their own genesis?.. But this Thunder impulse comes when all the qi possible, all the unmanifest qi of the perfectly balanced xiantian, is already there... So the moment of manifestation is the moment of perception, and that's why whoever feels tingling and buzzing and sees the light etc., whether actual or "scientific," thinks "this is qi" --

whereas this is their first chance to notice some effects of qi -- an eternity too late and a buck short! )

[Iskote]

I believe it to be that qi has electromagnetic components. I also believe that qi has components that we have no way of measuring (at least not yet). I believe that INTENT is responsible for the manifestation utilizing qi. And I am defining INTENT as it's own thing; THAT through which manifestation occurs utilizing qi. I firmly believe that both developed INTENT and cultivated qi are required to manifest a healing. I do know that INTENT is also a quantum level event as per my experiments with distance qi projection.

 

I am NOT putting a large emphasis on the field measurements. All I can tell you it was with state of the art sensors, computer software for logging, etc. As far as it being invalid because it was not performed in a faraday cage; I don't think so. The ambient field was measured then qi projection sessions of about 1-2 hours all day long were measured as well as the time in between sessions (continuous measurement all day long). The measurements on the time line corresponded 1 to 1 with the standing wave start time. In other words, the standing wave start time coincided each time with when I started projecting qi. Another interesting thing was that the wave changed when I changed my INTENT during any one session with the qi projection.

 

I do not put to much emphasis on this because, as I stated, there are many more components of qi and this was only one. Also, what did it mean? Not much. The important thing was what the people who received the qi projection got from it. I am really not interested in these type experiments. About the only experiments I am interested in doing are the results of qi projection in medical qigong. A study on bone healing would be good.

 

Fuuuuny, as I was about to hit enter someone called me and asked would I help them build a magnetic field device for experimental purposes.

Hi Ya Mu. That's interesting. I wouldn't say that not using a faraday cage would invalidate the experiment,

just that you wouldn't be able to draw any definite conclusions from the results. I would view that more as

an informal preliminary or exploratory experiment. I am not quite sure why you are using the term standing wave as that normally would only occur if there were a summation of two or more coinciding fields or signals producing an interference pattern. Also still not sure what exactly you were measuring. Were you measuring electric or magnetic field strengths or both, or what exactly? Just wondering why you concluded that you were measuring an EM field? Any way, its not overly important if you don't feel like going into further detail.

 

Ok on your interpretations of your results. I personally wouldn't be so quick to draw the conclusion that manifested effects are necessarily intrinsic components of qi, rather than just simply manifested effects,

just as we don't assume fire is part of lightning because lightning can produce fire when it strikes trees

or buildings. It would seem you view qi as being no different than the energy that scientists study? That's

an interesting perspective. It is interesting to see all the different perspectives that people have regarding

qi in reading through this thread. I personally am quite content with just having a very loose idea

of what qi is as I really think that it can't be fully understood through rational analysis. I guess

I just ascribe more to the traditional approach to it all since that has seemed to work for a long time

already, but I don't discount that science may have something valuable to contribute as well. Some people

are automatically put off by science because they feel it is something that will always be in conflict with

their traditional views and beliefs , but I don't think that is necessarily so at all.

 

Best wishes...

Edited December 25, 2009 by Iskote

[Ya Mu]

Can't tell you anything else about this. I didn't do the experiment, I was the one projecting qi. A medical researcher who considers his work proprietary measured magnetic fields setting up magnetic sensors at two locations. All was observed by an independent MD. It has been a VERY long time since I studied electromagnetic field theory but I think that is an appropriate way of describing this. The PhD medical researcher described it as such and you could see the modes of vibration recorded. But if you say it is incorrect then that is ok with me, and you probably know more about it than I do. I doubt I could solve a fourier bessel 3 dimensional transform at this point in my life either. I am no longer in that field of study and have forgotten most of it; I manipulate qi on the quantum level and have no need of the electromagnetic or electrical verification. That is for others.

But I stand by my comment of I believe that it is a component, albeit a small one, and not a manifestation. Not interested in trying to prove it. The manifestation was in the students I projected qi to.

 

...It would seem you view qi as being no different than the energy that scientists study?

 

Don't believe that is what I am saying. I am saying that any particular measurable component is only a small component and not representative of the whole which is non-linear and multi-dimensional; this is why I said it just didn't matter.

 

 

Other thoughts on qi.

 

There is a most definite difference in vibratory effects depending on the qi origin. Earth qi produces a different effect than qi from another dimension. The "awakening projection" I do is oh-so-very-different than the healing projection I do. (projection = manipulation)

If one dabbles only in lower density energetics then they will find it easier to knock something over with their qi, as in martial arts, but more difficult to do complicated healing work. In other words there is most definitely a difference in vibration.

[Iskote]

It has been a VERY long time since I studied electromagnetic field theory but I think that is an appropriate way of describing this. The PhD medical researcher described it as such and you could see the modes of vibration recorded. But if you say it is incorrect then that is ok with me, and you probably know more about it than I do.

Hi Ya Mu. You have lost me here. Nowhere did I say anything was incorrect. I was just

asking questions about how exactly measurements were done and what was the reasoning

that lead to the conclusions you mentioned. I was also just expressing my own personal view that

we have to be careful about drawing conclusions too quickly. I wasn't saying that anything is necessarily wrong

nor was I questioning anyone's knowledge. I was just adding my personal views on the subject. I am going

to back out of this thread here. Sometimes I forget how personally involved and commited people can be

with their views and beliefs and how easily people can become offended when someone just asks a few questions or expresses a view that is different than what they believe. To me views on such matters are just views and I wouldn't be offended at all if someone raised questions about my views or expressed opposing views. I think I get what you were saying about how you view qi now. Your further comments cleared

that up for me.

 

Best wishes...

[Ya Mu]

Hi Ya Mu. You have lost me here. Nowhere did I say anything was incorrect. I was just

asking questions about how exactly measurements were done and what was the reasoning

that lead to the conclusions you mentioned. I was also just expressing my own personal view that

we have to be careful about drawing conclusions too quickly. I wasn't saying that anything is necessarily wrong

nor was I questioning anyone's knowledge. I was just adding my personal views on the subject. I am going

to back out of this thread here. Sometimes I forget how personally involved and commited people can be

with their views and beliefs and how easily people can become offended when someone just asks a few questions or expresses a view that is different than what they believe. To me views on such matters are just views and I wouldn't be offended at all if someone raised questions about my views or expressed opposing views. I think I get what you were saying about how you view qi now. Your further comments cleared

that up for me.

 

Best wishes...

I was not offended in any way, was only trying to explain what little I knew of this - if I had of been the one to set up the experiment I could explain a lot better but I was busy teaching and didn't really do anything but look at the playback at the end of the day and listened to the researcher's comments.

 

And I did say I believe which meant for me too is just an opinion. I did get a degree in EE but man oh man do not remember much of field theory at all, so I was not being sarcastic in saying you probably know more about it than I do.

I play nice, come on back in the sandbox.

[~jK~]

I'm not a physicist, but from the point of view of physical science I believe it would be correct to say

that everything is energy, and matter is just one form (or maybe state?) that energy can take.

However, I don't know about your statement that "matter is energy vibrating at frequencies that

manifiest form"? The formula E=MC^2 does not have any reference to frequency in it.

 

Anyway that is nieither here nor there. Getting back to the main topic of this thread,

does knowing that everything in this world is really just a form of energy make even the slightest

difference about the questions: What is qi? What is energy? Is qi the same as energy, or is

energy just one 'form' that qi can manifiest? You still end up no further along after all the

analysis as far as I can see anyway. That's where meditation comes in I believe. Instead of continuiing

to bang our head against a brick wall, we can instead let go and let the brick wall just dissolve away,

or something like that anyway.

 

Best wishes...

 

The "Law of Conservation of Matter and Energy" in physics states that:

"The Law of Conservation of Energy states that energy cannot be created or destroyed, but can change its form.

The total quantity of matter and energy available in the universe is a fixed amount and never any more or less. "

 

So matter and energy are the same but in different states which allows them to be interchangable.

More simply put - we cannot speak of one without speaking of the other.

qi is a form of energy within the body and as such can be controlled by the mind which can turn on and off the synapse : "The junction across which a nerve impulse passes from an axon terminal to a neuron, muscle cell, or gland cell." http://www.answers.com/topic/synapse

[LINGGUZI]

Practice comes real knowledge！

[Marblehead]

Hi All,

 

Just wanted to say I am enjoying the discussion here. I have nothing to add at the moment but wanted to let y'all know that I am reading the posts.

 

Peace & Love!