Qi is NOT Energy

[Taomeow]

If one dabbles only in lower density energetics then they will find it easier to knock something over with their qi, as in martial arts, but more difficult to do complicated healing work. In other words there is most definitely a difference in vibration.

 

Sorry if I'm missing something, I haven't read all of the discussion, but I was wondering if you (or anyone) could explain to me where this "vibration fixation" can be found in taoist sources? It is a staple of many other traditions, but I haven't come across these ideas in the original taoist canon. I've seen evidence that the nature and quality of a certain type of qi is defined by the following (and more than the following):

 

spacial direction (Water descends, Metal contracts, Wood expands, Fire ascends, Earth rotates -- or sits still depending on the type of diagram you're looking at, one that places it in the cycle of transformation or one that looks pre-Copernican and places it in the center; now then, East, West, South, etc. qi -- the eight directions of the bagua -- these are also about the vector of qi in space);

 

timing/timeliness (expressed by ascribing properties of the four seasons to the cosmic process -- Conception, Growth, Fruition, Consummation -- as well as to the directional qi of the bagua -- Spring, Summer, etc.; these describe qi in terms of its placement in the cycle of time);

 

thermal characteristics (hot, neutral, cool, cold; these might have something to do with "vibraiton" and "density" but there's no evidence in taoist sources that "higher" is superior to "lower" in all situations and for all purposes -- rather, "optimal" is sought for a particular purpose);

 

celestial or terrestrial origins and affiliations (qi of Heavenly Stems and qi of Earthly Branches);

 

age (old qi and young qi);

 

reliability (heng qi, which is long-lasting, reliable and predictable for long periods of time, like qi of the sun, the moon and the stars, vs. yi qi -- yi as in the Yi Jing, aka the I Ching, the Changes of Irregular and Unreliable Nature);

 

and on and on. Qi is the most fascinating subject of study EVER. (Don't nobody go there, I mean where I'm told I ought to experience in via practice -- I have and I do and this gives me a right to assert it's not just my body that studies qi experientially, it's my mind too! -- e.g. when I contemplate a feng shui problem -- which is a qi problem you can't solve by "experiencing it in the body" unless you're a dishonest practitioner -- or, more often than not, when I practice something that requires my body and my mind -- nah, my -- gasp -- intellect! -- I know, I know, a dirty word here! -- something that requires my body and my intellect to unite lest no experience will take place -- e.g., Lingbao Bifa...)

 

Anyway, back to my question... can anyone point me in the direction of an original taoist source where the concept of "low density is a mark of second-rate qi" is to be found?

[宁]

I believe that INTENT is responsible for the manifestation utilizing qi.

And I am defining INTENT as it's own thing;

THAT through which manifestation occurs utilizing qi.

 

I think this is VERY good.

And I think INTENT is shaped by understanding, molded by it. Hence the ?Question?

 

@Taomeow,

what about the first 'formula' of the TTC?

I think IF we start by making the Dao indescribable, it's like we shoot ourselves in the foot...

 

Re your question above, i think it's a westernized interpretation due to the lacking of specific taoist terminology - that is kept inside oral transmission - Mi Jue

[Taomeow]

I think this is VERY good.

And I think INTENT is shaped by understanding, molded by it. Hence the ?Question?

 

@Taomeow,

what about the first 'formula' of the TTC?

I think IF we start by making the Dao indescribable, it's like we shoot ourselves in the foot...

 

Re your question above, i think it's a westernized interpretation due to the lacking of specific taoist terminology - that is kept inside oral transmission - Mi Jue

 

Little1,

 

about the first "formula" of TTC... I think people confuse two important points made by pretty much all authentic taoist sources and mistake one for the other:

they all assert that tao cannot be defined; none of them assert tao cannot be described.

 

This is crucial to grasp, because once grasped, it radically eliminates object-oriented thinking and installs process-oriented thinking or at least the first seedlings thereof. Tao cannot be defined. Qi cannot be defined. Nothing taoist can be defined! Yet tao can be described. Qi can be described. Everything taoist can be described!

 

In other words, to define is to substitute, to substitute is to lie. If we say tao is this or that, qi is this or that, then this "this or that" is what we offer to replace the process of tao, to replace the process of qi, etc.. "Tao is emptiness" or "tao is nothingness" are popular examples of such lies -- and lies they are because they substitute the defining party's idea, whatever it happens to be, for the real thing, by saying the real thing (tao) IS what the defining party chooses to say it 'IS'. Ah but it ISN'T!

 

However, if we describe tao -- "eternal, yet changing, unchanging, yet all change comes from it," add to the description observations of its behavior -- "the way of tao is motion and the pattern of this motion is return," add to that more observations we can describe -- "tao patterns itself on itself" -- and on and on -- we spend our life observing, contemplating, and describing the truth, never for a moment defining a lie.

 

So "tao can be spoken," "tao is not eternal" -- these are words that can't be understood by defining them! A translator (or a reader of the original for that matter) who inserts what isn't there -- "tao THAT can be spoken" followed by a grammatical inversion "IS NOT the eternal tao" turns a description into a definition -- and immediately lies. "Tao can be spoken" is a simple description, and it is true, and it is OBVIOUSLY true, we've been talking about tao long since the cows have come home! Now "tao is not eternal" may or may not be juxtaposed to the first statement. May or may not. It can't be inferred from reading the book! It is not MEANT to be inferred thence! One must live -- and live in a certain fashion that is described, not defined, in same book -- in order to find out.

 

About my question above: you're probably right. Also, to me it seems to be another example of those "definitions instead of descriptions" I'm so in favor of avoiding.

[宁]

Little1,

 

about the first "formula" of TTC... I think people confuse two important points made by pretty much all authentic taoist sources and mistake one for the other:

they all assert that tao cannot be defined; none of them assert tao cannot be described.

 

Wonderful! I have to make an essay for my Chinese Literature laoshi, about Daoist Cosmology... Do you mind if I use that idea without quotes?

There is another idea, which I read it in Winn's articles, that Daoist Cosmology happens as we speak, that is, every moment...

So, I have two ideas, I need one more and I'm up to writing that essay.

 

Every description of Qi is related to the specific aplication of it, at a certain step of the practice.

So, description is Daoist Philosophy, and definition would beone self's experimentation thru practice, of that particular description - that is made available at that specific point...

 

Mm?

[Ya Mu]

Sorry if I'm missing something, I haven't read all of the discussion, but I was wondering if you (or anyone) could explain to me where this "vibration fixation" can be found in taoist sources?

...

 

Oral tradition. I believe the handed down oral tradition to be of greater authority than the written tradition. And I realize I may be in the minority of folks on the board that believe that. But if you think about it, what masters have totally written down ALL of what they know? Few. But sometimes an exceptional student comes along and the teacher shares freely. The Taoist literature, subject to translation issues, is, IMO, quite like the Christian bible. Both are full of good stuff but both are full of mis-quotes, illusion, and translation issues. ALSO, I believe that ONLY self-awareness can confirm anything written OR orally handed down.

And it is not a "fixation" but an attempt to describe what is going on. And ONLY an attempt.

 

Anyway, back to my question... can anyone point me in the direction of an original taoist source where the concept of "low density is a mark of second-rate qi" is to be found? unsure.gif

Which writings by Taoists do you consider "correct"?

I am a Taoist and this is in my writings. But not an original idea, just an experiential finding that coincides with oral tradition taught to me.

[Iskote]

I was not offended in any way, was only trying to explain what little I knew of this - if I had of been the one to set up the experiment I could explain a lot better but I was busy teaching and didn't really do anything but look at the playback at the end of the day and listened to the researcher's comments.

And I did say I believe which meant for me too is just an opinion. I did get a degree in EE but man oh man do not remember much of field theory at all, so I was not being sarcastic in saying you probably know more about it than I do.

I play nice, come on back in the sandbox.

Hi Ya Mu. I wasn't trying to put you on the defensive. Just trying to understand. I was thrown off by your use

of the term 'standing wave' in the context you were describing, so that is why I was trying to get more details.

It's not overly important to me. No need to be on the defensive.

 

Best wishes...

[Ya Mu]

Hi Ya Mu. I wasn't trying to put you on the defensive. Just trying to understand. I was thrown off by your use

of the term 'standing wave' in the context you were describing, so that is why I was trying to get more details.

It's not overly important to me. No need to be on the defensive.

 

Best wishes...

 

Not on the defensive - don't know why you think that. Just trying to explain. I believe that the term standing wave is appropriate because there were 2 probes a set difference apart. So the nodes of vibration set up a standing wave pattern. It was most interesting, but I still do not think it meant much. The researcher was not very forthwith in sharing as he is writing a book. I didn't care what he did with it; just didn't matter to me.

[宁]

 

(Little1 @ Dec 22 2009, 11:47 PM) *

 

Maybe it's the right time to voice it out: what are the real characteristics that make Nei Qi and Wai Qi be different.

 

 

Good question. Let's hear some views on this. ??

 

 

'All energy is only borrowed, and one day you'll have to give it back.' - this is a quote from the Avatar movie

Edited December 25, 2009 by Little1

[Taomeow]

Oral tradition. I believe the handed down oral tradition to be of greater authority than the written tradition. And I realize I may be in the minority of folks on the board that believe that. But if you think about it, what masters have totally written down ALL of what they know? Few. But sometimes an exceptional student comes along and the teacher shares freely. The Taoist literature, subject to translation issues, is, IMO, quite like the Christian bible. Both are full of good stuff but both are full of mis-quotes, illusion, and translation issues. ALSO, I believe that ONLY self-awareness can confirm anything written OR orally handed down.

And it is not a "fixation" but an attempt to describe what is going on. And ONLY an attempt.

Which writings by Taoists do you consider "correct"?

I am a Taoist and this is in my writings. But not an original idea, just an experiential finding that coincides with oral tradition taught to me.

Ya Mu, I didn't mean it's a "fixation" with you, sorry if I made it sound like that. I meant it is a fixatedly popular western-spiritual interpretation, for which I don't know a taoist counterpart.

 

I am all for oral tradition and some of the most important things I've been taught have never been written down, but they were usually congruent with taoist basics or with common sense or what have you. Even if they were just "postulated" as axioms, without further explanations, I could eventually understand the why's and wherefore's either empirically, or logically, or intuitively. This is not the case with the "higher vibration qi," for which I can't find any taoist sources nor an empirical, logical or intuitive justification of my own. It is very popular in oral transmissions from new age sources, but I'm not "against" it -- I'm just genuinely concerned about possibly missing something they know?.. These sources, by the way, didn't get it from an oral transmission. It is from Crowley, far as I know.

[Taomeow]

Wonderful! I have to make an essay for my Chinese Literature laoshi, about Daoist Cosmology... Do you mind if I use that idea without quotes?

 

I will be happy to have helped with the essay, but the idea is not mine, I originally got it from the Yuan Dao translated and foreworded by Roger Ames and T.C. Lau. It has served me well over the years; may it serve you well as well.

 

There is another idea, which I read it in Winn's articles, that Daoist Cosmology happens as we speak, that is, every moment...

So, I have two ideas, I need one more and I'm up to writing that essay.

 

Every description of Qi is related to the specific aplication of it, at a certain step of the practice.

So, description is Daoist Philosophy, and definition would beone self's experimentation thru practice, of that particular description - that is made available at that specific point...

 

Mm?

 

Agree with Winn.

 

Yes, "definition" is possible with taoist concepts the way someone would use it to mean "visible expression" -- as in "muscle definition" -- it would mean embodiment (ti?..) Except one would embody (define) something taoists rather than bodybuilders are after -- ti tao, ti taiji, etc.. Which is done via practice of taoist arts and sciences and moral values, not via attaching verbal labels to certain concepts a certain way. "Muscle definition" comes from lifting weights. "Tao definition," from dropping them?.. definitely not from talking "about" them -- but provided you're "handling" them, not just talking "about" them, talking "about" weight lifting doesn't interfere with one's ability to lift, and likewise, talking "about" tao doesn't interfere with one's ability to embody it. Laozi talked about nothing but, then went ahead and became a celestial immortal.

[Ya Mu]

Ya Mu, I didn't mean it's a "fixation" with you, sorry if I made it sound like that. I meant it is a fixatedly popular western-spiritual interpretation, for which I don't know a taoist counterpart.

 

I am all for oral tradition and some of the most important things I've been taught have never been written down, but they were usually congruent with taoist basics or with common sense or what have you. Even if they were just "postulated" as axioms, without further explanations, I could eventually understand the why's and wherefore's either empirically, or logically, or intuitively. This is not the case with the "higher vibration qi," for which I can't find any taoist sources nor an empirical, logical or intuitive justification of my own. It is very popular in oral transmissions from new age sources, but I'm not "against" it -- I'm just genuinely concerned about possibly missing something they know?.. These sources, by the way, didn't get it from an oral transmission. It is from Crowley, far as I know.

I have never even read Crowley and don't subscribe much to the "new age" thing.

 

I stop to think about it and I guess I wouldn't have any practical concept of this without the energy projection from my Teachers. I was told of it after I noticed the change. It is consistent with the Taoist healing methods that I practice and teach; these are methods orally/energetically handed down from teacher to student.

 

An example of this:

One of my students is a nurse who has been studying various forms of "energy healing" for about 15 years or so and is on his 3rd year with me. He calls me up after the last workshop and says he is now able to do much deeper and quicker healing than he could before the last workshop (and he was already good at it). It is because of the raising of energy body vibration which gives access to higher vibratory states of energy. At these levels the manifestation (in our case the healing) is easier, purer, quicker, deeper.

 

If one were to read about this it would not make much sense; something that must be transmitted orally and energetically from one's teacher. I suppose knowledge and use of this could also come from a Divine intervention or natural event, say for instance, getting hit with lightning.

[Marblehead]

 

'All energy is only borrowed, and one day you'll have to give it back.' - this is a quote from the Avatar movie

 

That is consistent with my beliefs. I refer to this energy as our personal Chi (or sometimes Life Force). No, I have no idea where it goes when we die.

 

Peace & Love!

[Taomeow]

I have never even read Crowley and don't subscribe much to the "new age" thing.

 

I stop to think about it and I guess I wouldn't have any practical concept of this without the energy projection from my Teachers. I was told of it after I noticed the change. It is consistent with the Taoist healing methods that I practice and teach; these are methods orally/energetically handed down from teacher to student.

 

An example of this:

One of my students is a nurse who has been studying various forms of "energy healing" for about 15 years or so and is on his 3rd year with me. He calls me up after the last workshop and says he is now able to do much deeper and quicker healing than he could before the last workshop (and he was already good at it). It is because of the raising of energy body vibration which gives access to higher vibratory states of energy. At these levels the manifestation (in our case the healing) is easier, purer, quicker, deeper.

 

If one were to read about this it would not make much sense; something that must be transmitted orally and energetically from one's teacher. I suppose knowledge and use of this could also come from a Divine intervention or natural event, say for instance, getting hit with lightning.

I see. Where I come from I knew a woman, an ordinary one before she was hit by a lightning, and an extraordinary healer since the event. She described her experiences after the event, and apparently she acquired the ability to see human internal organs in light and color while losing her ability to see them any other way -- she couldn't see the "surface" anymore, only a collection of "internals." She went to med school a few years down the road in order to be able to understand what she was looking at. She could heal without this understanding, from day one, but she couldn't feel fulfilled if it just happened mechanically. So I have this idea that "understanding" -- the meaningfulness of qi I was talking about earlier -- might be this "higher vibration" you're talking about. It is definitely not mechanical. This woman was suffering from an assortment of -- I'd say "physico-spiritual conflicts" -- "not understanding" what she was perceiving or doing made her feel sick and miserable, and actually studying anatomy and physiology ("lower vibration" goodies) healed her, the healer. That's what I mean when I say that qi of a certain task needs to be "optimal" -- of "optimal vibration" rather than "higher-better-than- lower."

 

Regardless... thanks for the explanation, and I've a question:

 

I was given the ability in a shamanic way, but there's weird strings attached... so I'm not able to use it unless I agree with the strings. (No, nothing "bad" or "dark" or "evil," no "pact" with anything or anyone... a different kind of strings, hard to explain...) So my question is... Did your ability come at no cost to your concept of who you are? Is it something you find easy to accept?

[Ohm-Nei]

Qi is the beginning and also the end, it cant start and it cant stop, it can only be defined, it cannot be proven because it exists in lies as well.

[Ya Mu]

I see. Where I come from I knew a woman, an ordinary one before she was hit by a lightning, and an extraordinary healer since the event. She described her experiences after the event, and apparently she acquired the ability to see human internal organs in light and color while losing her ability to see them any other way -- she couldn't see the "surface" anymore, only a collection of "internals." She went to med school a few years down the road in order to be able to understand what she was looking at. She could heal without this understanding, from day one, but she couldn't feel fulfilled if it just happened mechanically. So I have this idea that "understanding" -- the meaningfulness of qi I was talking about earlier -- might be this "higher vibration" you're talking about. It is definitely not mechanical. This woman was suffering from an assortment of -- I'd say "physico-spiritual conflicts" -- "not understanding" what she was perceiving or doing made her feel sick and miserable, and actually studying anatomy and physiology ("lower vibration" goodies) healed her, the healer. That's what I mean when I say that qi of a certain task needs to be "optimal" -- of "optimal vibration" rather than "higher-better-than- lower."

 

Regardless... thanks for the explanation, and I've a question:

 

I was given the ability in a shamanic way, but there's weird strings attached... so I'm not able to use it unless I agree with the strings. (No, nothing "bad" or "dark" or "evil," no "pact" with anything or anyone... a different kind of strings, hard to explain...) So my question is... Did your ability come at no cost to your concept of who you are? Is it something you find easy to accept?

 

Interesting about the lady. What we have found is that certain people have an innate ability to "see" sick energy and inside of people's bodies but that this ability does not manifest until they raise their energy body vibrationals. It sounds like in her case this happened instantaneously and she was thrown into confusion because she had no understanding of relating to it. I wouldn't say that her study was of "lower vibrational", at least, that is not what I mean when I say it. I do relate to her very much as a similar thing happened to me. I got hit by lightning (hence my mentioning it); this instantly gave me a much broader understanding of concepts of "no-time" and other things and it instantly affected my energy body as well.

 

In answer to your question I will say that I always tell my students who wish to be healers that they better be damn sure that is what they really want. One always pays a price. The concept of who I am definitely changed. But this is also the concept of what I really teach; awaken to who you really are. It changes everything. I accept it and embrace it although sometimes I bitch, moan, and groan about it

[gendao]

I see. Where I come from I knew a woman, an ordinary one before she was hit by a lightning, and an extraordinary healer since the event. She described her experiences after the event, and apparently she acquired the ability to see human internal organs in light and color while losing her ability to see them any other way -- she couldn't see the "surface" anymore, only a collection of "internals." She went to med school a few years down the road in order to be able to understand what she was looking at. She could heal without this understanding, from day one, but she couldn't feel fulfilled if it just happened mechanically. So I have this idea that "understanding" -- the meaningfulness of qi I was talking about earlier -- might be this "higher vibration" you're talking about. It is definitely not mechanical. This woman was suffering from an assortment of -- I'd say "physico-spiritual conflicts" -- "not understanding" what she was perceiving or doing made her feel sick and miserable, and actually studying anatomy and physiology ("lower vibration" goodies) healed her, the healer. That's what I mean when I say that qi of a certain task needs to be "optimal" -- of "optimal vibration" rather than "higher-better-than- lower."

Very interesting...because of course, Max Christensen has had the exact same story recounted about himself.

But my experiments with qi projection have shown that there is absolutely no time differential when doing distance qi projection. It absolutely arrives the same instance that it is projected, no matter where in the world the receiver is (and, I think it would not matter where a person is dimensionally). So qi does operate on the quantum level. But what does this mean? Not much other than to tell us that components of qi operate on the non-linear quantum level.

That confirms what another qigong master had said - that qi travels faster than the speed of light.

 

To me this implies that qi is a "subtrate fabric" that originates "underneath" the space/time dimensions. Speed is a function of "moving" from one location to another in spacetime. But, if you exist "prior" to those dimensions, then you simply "instantly" (timelessly) exist "whereless" (and thus effectively everywhere/nowhere) all at once. The speed of light is actually the "phase change" constant between the dimensions (which is why it's a universal constant - just like the freezing point of water). So IOW, if you exceed the speed of light, then you have exited the spacetime dimensions into a dimension with no spacetime. Above that constant, there simply is no "time"...or "space."

Edited December 26, 2009 by vortex

[Iskote]

Not on the defensive - don't know why you think that. Just trying to explain. I believe that the term standing wave is appropriate because there were 2 probes a set difference apart. So the nodes of vibration set up a standing wave pattern. It was most interesting, but I still do not think it meant much. The researcher was not very forthwith in sharing as he is writing a book. I didn't care what he did with it; just didn't matter to me.

Hi Ya Mu. No worries. Merry Christmas...

 

Best wishes...

[mjjbecker]

I believe the handed down oral tradition to be of greater authority than the written tradition. And I realize I may be in the minority of folks on the board that believe that.

 

Agreed. It is something encountered time and again in various traditions.

 

The problems are doubly confounded in translations made by people who do not KNOW what they are writing about. I wonder how many English translations of famous works amount to nothing more than the needless murder of innocent trees?

 

ALSO, I believe that ONLY self-awareness can confirm anything written OR orally handed down.

 

Experience trumps everything. It's one thing to intellectually grasp the concept, another entirely to KNOW it from experience. Experience shows also, and it can't be bluffed for long, if at all.

 

Kostas (yes, that one) has some interesting things to say about 'qi' in his forthcoming book.

[ShaktiMama]

Edited December 26, 2009 by ShaktiMama

[gendao]

i would add...to place things in contextual progression...from immaterial to material

 

Dao

Shen Ling

Shen Xian

Zhi Yi Tian

Yuan Shen

Shen Zhi

 

From Shen Zhi flow out

Shen- Qi-jing

 

for further reference: chap 2, pps 45-69, Understanding Ancient Chinese Metaphysics; Chinese Medical Qigong Theraypy; Vol 1: Energetic Anatomy and Physiology

Dr. Jerry Alan Johnson

 

johnson describes qi as the energetic medium existing between matter and spirit (also known as Life Force Energy when pertaining to the physical body). He further discusses 18 different types of qi.

 

Good book to have on your shelf.

 

Oh...and there is even an older pictogram for qi

 

It is three lines, one on top of the other.

 

 

_

-

_

 

they are closer together than I can represent with text. It represent the mist that rises from the ground as the sun comes up in the morning. "mist that rises from the earth to form clouds".

 

It was in use till the Western Zhou Dynasty. (1066-770 BC)

I hope i have uploaded the jpg correctly. It is the first pictograph on the left.

 

So how I explain to my students...it is a picture of the movement of energy from material to immaterial. Also from immaterial to material. From an alchemical view point I tell them their body is a crucible of alchemy forever transforming the material to the immaterial and back again. It is a constant process with the three treasures of man: jing, chi, and shen.

 

I explain that within them is the Tai (Supreme) Ji (Ultimate) pole which is analogous to the sushumna in hindu alchemy. It within this Tai Ji pole that this process of alchemy(energetic transformation) flows for their physical body is the nexus point between heaven and earth. We, as human beings, are constantly transforming the material and immaterial back and forth. We start entering the realm of mastery when we begin to do this with conscious awareness.

 

once you can become conscious of your own Tai Ji pole you can check this out for yourself.

 

just speaking from my own experiences but sometimes i get carried away

Cool info!

 

Could you explain more about what those first few terms are, though? I know some of them, but others I'm not familiar with...

[ShaktiMama]

Cool info!

 

Could you explain more about what those first few terms are, though? I know some of them, but others I'm not familiar with...

 

That's why I put the book pages there. That is an in depth discussion of those terms and about qi with diagrams to explain the relationships. the book is three inches thick weighs about 2 pounds or more and difficult to keep open while i type.

 

 

Shen Ling supernatural spirit. Surrounds the Dao with an infinite number of Shen Ling

 

Shen Xian eternal soul The component of the Shen Ling that reincarnates

 

Zhi Yi Tian Will and Intent of Heaven The eternal soul must past through the Zhi Yi Tian in order to become a Yuan Shen or (human soul)

 

Yuan Shen Original Spirit. Yang aspect of human soul that is absorbed into the egg upon conception

 

Shen Zhi acquired spirit Yin aspect of human soul that is expressed as a temporary acquired personality.

 

The human soul is composed of three bodies: jing, shen, and qi which are linked together and constantly influencing each other.

[Taomeow]

Shen Ling supernatural spirit. Surrounds the Dao with an infinite number of Shen Ling

which I've seen translated as "intellect," by the way.

[ShaktiMama]

which I've seen translated as "intellect," by the way.

 

correct...

 

chinese language contains about 56, 000 characters although maybe only 3000 are used in modern times.

http://www.omniglot.com/writing/chinese.htm

 

we have 26 in english.

 

like comparing analog to digital much nuance is lost when we move between english and chinese

 

so it is important to look at things in context and also to use subjective impression to get to what is the heart of what is written

[Taomeow]

correct...

 

chinese language contains about 56, 000 characters although maybe only 3000 are used in modern times.

http://www.omniglot.com/writing/chinese.htm

 

we have 26 in english.

 

like comparing analog to digital much nuance is lost when we move between english and chinese

 

so it is important to look at things in context and also to use subjective impression to get to what is the heart of what is written

Correct,

 

I was just wondering if anyone else noticed that "supernatural spirit surrounding tao with many supernatural spirits" and "intellect" mean the same thing in Chinese. There's much intellect-bashing going on at "spiritual" forums de riguer... so when I first heard from a top teacher that the practice will cultivate my "intellect," my first reaction was disappointment... till I got it.

[ShaktiMama]

Correct,

 

I was just wondering if anyone else noticed that "supernatural spirit surrounding tao with many supernatural spirits" and "intellect" mean the same thing in Chinese. There's much intellect-bashing going on at "spiritual" forums de riguer... so when I first heard from a top teacher that the practice will cultivate my "intellect," my first reaction was disappointment... till I got it.

 

Shen ling or ling shen...i have heard it both ways... is roughly correlated to the Christian term called the Holy Spirit.

 

now..taomeow...are you stirring things up here?...dao forbid spiritual gets talked about on a doaist forum

 

Edited December 27, 2009 by ShaktiMama