Qi is NOT Energy

[Taomeow]

Shen ling or ling shen...i have heard it both ways... is roughly correlated to the Christian term called the Holy Spirit.

 

now..taomeow...are you stirring things up here?...dao forbid spiritual gets talked about on a doaist forum

 

Stirring things up? Me?

 

I know very little about the Holy Spirit of Christianity, being a descendant of four generations of atheists, but ling shen in taoism is practiced, not "believed in" --

 

and I'm a practicing variety, and when you practice taoist arts and sciences, you have to deal with spirits, no way around it. That a spirit is a "type of qi" is, however, indeed off limits for purposes of a "what is qi" online discussion, as I suspect, so I don't much go there...

 

...but you know what I know, right?

[宁]

--

That a spirit is a "type of qi" is, however, indeed off limits for purposes of a "what is qi" online discussion, as I suspect, so I don't much go there...

 

Oh but please do go there... (you already stirred it up )

Btw, can you throw a hint on what 'intelect' could be?

[ShaktiMama]

Stirring things up? Me?

 

I know very little about the Holy Spirit of Christianity, being a descendant of four generations of atheists, but ling shen in taoism is practiced, not "believed in" --

 

and I'm a practicing variety, and when you practice taoist arts and sciences, you have to deal with spirits, no way around it. That a spirit is a "type of qi" is, however, indeed off limits for purposes of a "what is qi" online discussion, as I suspect, so I don't much go there...

 

...but you know what I know, right?

 

practice vs belief not

 

what i read on the internet or on a discussion forum

what i read in a book so if it feels true and is so logical it must be true

what ever one else is parroting saying

 

wow...what a radical concept

Edited December 27, 2009 by ShaktiMama

[Marblehead]

... not ...

 

what ever one else is parroting saying

 

wow...what a radical concept

 

Funny.

 

Peace & Love!

[宁]

bump

[soaring crane]

bump

 

lol@bumping

 

I still find it helpful and more practical to view Qi as a substance or fine material, regardless of all the other and perhaps more accurate "definitions" offered by people with a deeper understanding about it than me

 

I can go a lot further in my own cultivation with the breathe of the universe than I can with some intellectual reductions of same

 

 

[Cloudhand]

lol@bumping

 

I still find it helpful and more practical to view Qi as a substance or fine material, regardless of all the other and perhaps more accurate "definitions" offered by people with a deeper understanding about it than me

 

I can go a lot further in my own cultivation with the breathe of the universe than I can with some intellectual reductions of same

 

 

 

 

Sometimes you have to use words to tell what something is, but that is always not the true picture. To feel it and enjoy it everyday, you are this substance, energy or whatever is true qi or chi. I like to say it is the root of all things. Cloudhand

[SingaporeGuyHere]

i agree with several posts here, you need to know the limits of your conscious mind, what are its limits ?

[joeblast]

I can go a lot further in my own cultivation with the breathe of the universe than I can with some intellectual reductions of same

That's exactly the point - using current quantum mechanical theories we can construct a coherent mechanism by which these phenomena happen - such as a weak force interaction being able to transmute a quark of one type into another, so done in enough capacity it should be possible to "turn lead into gold" shall we say - but what these theories dont tell you is how to actually arrange the lagrangians to produce the effect, so its rather academic - practice is the only way to figure that out! (I suppose some of it can be applied to curiosities, i.e. in qi running, how much of the compliment is electromagnetic, and how much is gravitational?) IMHO all of the fundamental forces will have their own particular qi manifestations. Again, dry academic observation and not "doing."

 

But some rules and facets can have applicability to practice: Do you think this is a static or a dynamic image?

 

 

Absolutely dynamic, and one has an extent of control of it.

 

So in order to manifest something, the conditions need to be arranged - i.e. figure out how to "most efficiently combine amplitudes." If we accept the postulate that qi is a quantum mechanical phenomenon, then we have some interesting rules that apply that seem to be well confirmed by mindful practice (using two as a # of interactions to keep it simple):

 

if we have two amplitudes a=3 and b=4,

 

-if the events happen in sequence, multiply the amplitudes: 3x4=12

-if the events are in coherence but can be distinguished, square the multiples then add: 9+16=25

-if the events cannot be distinguished, add before absolute squaring - 3+4=7, ^2=49

 

When practicing, events not in coherence will have the lesser outcome;

 

In refining, one finds coherence yet events are at least partly still of the mind and thus distinguishable;

 

Practice until the foreground fades away, background becomes the foreground - and certain events within will start to become indistinguishable, producing the most efficacious result.

 

 

Another thing that QM tells us is that (in the famous double slit experiment) it doesnt matter which slit the photon goes through - the path is a priori deduced from the sum of all paths; in a particle or field interaction, just like the center of a black hole, we really cant see or exactly measure the interaction itself because that would be interfering with the experiment, but it is indeed a manifestation when particles or fields interact.

 

Which begs the question,

What if you are the experiment?

 

Ah...now what happens to the distribution of probabilities for the event when those two slits are realigned so that they overlap?

[soaring crane]

That's exactly the point -

 

...boing, boing, boing...

Ah...now what happens to the distribution of probabilities for the event when those two slits are realigned so that they overlap?

 

lol - Ok, Joe, I'll be sure to keep all that in mind next time I hug a tree

 

 

 

[Uncle Screwtape]

they all assert that tao cannot be defined; none of them assert tao cannot be described.

 

Thank you, TM! It comes as such a relief to see someone else say this.

 

the initial impulse that sends the stillness of xiantian into houtian motion, coming from the trigram of Thunder, is mystery of mysteries! I've been meditating on it for years and I still feel being sucked into a vortex of mystery whenever I'm beginning to perceive that.

 

I remember the first time I asked you the question: what made movement enter stillness? I have been circling this question ever since. But I am no closer to understanding. Nor am I any closer to giving up wondering.

 

Richard

[宁]

I think this is a legit question, and the answer could help one understand the process of retaining and cultivating it inside, rather than just accumulating it, and then loosing it in the daily activities...

 

Last I asked, we were talking about the relation between intelect and Qi, and how is intelect seen by daoist practicioners... again, it's something else, not just reason...

 

Oh, and please don't write obvious things - it's obvious that without practice the understanding is shallow, yet the vice-versa is also true, without understanding the practice is shallow...

[rain]

"Do you think this is a static or a dynamic image?"

 

-----------

 

yes.

Joe..

Must admit I freak out and get totally frustrated by this image. It is so dear to my heart. It is haunting me. My mind starts activating all sorts of varying flashanimations. I see this model like Joe describes it with totally overlapping images exept they are simultaneous and diametrical in direction as a result of intital movement/intent. The friction from movement results in electric activity and when the opposing electrical forces created by opposing centrifugal movement is dense or intense enough it causes a connection a binding which transforms into a amplified magnetitism. the electric current goes from kaos into more order and finally alignment and in this process there is a switch as like when some fluid matter suddenly turns solid, it forms through magnetization.Then the form goes from chordlike or stringlike to tubeform developing into a void tunnel.. Why is this representation of energy so intensely important to me? My intellect is not built for understanding Joes mathematical equations. All I can do is feel myself into a kinestetic visual model and I streeeetch the imaginative feel. Yes I can watch Alex Grays art or listen to whomever describing the macro and micro tubes and columbs, all I see is an image of us humans, an image of you and me. And feel like a helpless idiot.

Edited April 8, 2010 by rain

[Oleg Galkin]

I know it could sound quite silly, but I think QI is a VOID. Like cosmos. Everything in our world consist of something - matter, energy, waves, but emptiness is one for everything. Void is the only ideal thing that exists and at the same time doesen't exist in the world. Even in a structure of atoms there is void. And I think that void is the root of all things in our world. Everything is born from a void and returning to it.

Edited April 9, 2010 by Oleg Galkin

[Cueball]

I believe that INTENT is responsible for the manifestation utilizing qi. And I am defining INTENT as it's own thing; THAT through which manifestation occurs utilizing qi. I firmly believe that both developed INTENT and cultivated qi are required to manifest a healing. I do know that INTENT is also a quantum level event as per my experiments with distance qi projection.

 

Hi, would you say more about this if you have time? Especially their relationship. In your experience, do you see a kind of feedback loop going on - a reciprocation that encourages both intent and qi? Via INTENT?

 

Great thread.

 

Thank you.

Edited April 21, 2010 by Cueball

[Cueball]

... without practice the understanding is shallow, yet the vice-versa is also true, without understanding the practice is shallow...

 

Ah! Like this - would be interested to hear more.

 

Thanks.

[Ya Mu]

Hi, would you say more about this if you have time? Especially their relationship. In your experience, do you see a kind of feedback loop going on - a reciprocation that encourages both intent and qi? Via INTENT?

 

Great thread.

 

Thank you.

YES! Developed INTENT and Qi combined WILL feedback on each other increasing the other. I kinda simplified the previous statement as I have probably written this before. But also required, in addition to qi time & effort cultivation and developed INTENT is the practice of Virtue, alignment with Spirit, and calmness.

[宁]

I'll add another set of questions:

 

- what is the difference between Qi and personal power

 

for now,

 

L1

[Taomeow]

[Mokona]

Interesting about the lady. What we have found is that certain people have an innate ability to "see" sick energy and inside of people's bodies but that this ability does not manifest until they raise their energy body vibrationals. It sounds like in her case this happened instantaneously and she was thrown into confusion because she had no understanding of relating to it. I wouldn't say that her study was of "lower vibrational", at least, that is not what I mean when I say it. I do relate to her very much as a similar thing happened to me. I got hit by lightning (hence my mentioning it); this instantly gave me a much broader understanding of concepts of "no-time" and other things and it instantly affected my energy body as well.

 

In answer to your question I will say that I always tell my students who wish to be healers that they better be damn sure that is what they really want. One always pays a price. The concept of who I am definitely changed. But this is also the concept of what I really teach; awaken to who you really are. It changes everything. I accept it and embrace it although sometimes I bitch, moan, and groan about it

 

Maybe someone should post a disclaimer as I'm sure someone will now go out of their way to try and be hit by lightning!

[Ya Mu]

Maybe someone should post a disclaimer as I'm sure someone will now go out of their way to try and be hit by lightning!

LOL. I have said over and over again that I do not recommend this route. Although the statistics for being hit is staggering. Pay attention to your weather and surroundings!

[宁]

Ah! Like this - would be interested to hear more.

 

Thanks.

 

I missed your post. To me, it's like this: think about making love. When we make love, we make love with everything that we are, we know and we can. It should be the same with practice.

I say should, because it's not what it happens... one big error is the 'mind over matter' attitude of most of the cultivators, which gives them all the necessary arguments for keeping things mostly intelectual.

What i mean by that, is that having understanding is different than having information.

Understanding - you embody knowledge, it's not limited to your brain and mind.

It's body knowledge, and this definition is, i think, mostly related to cultivators of a certain (refined if you wish) quality.

 

So, this (presence or lack of) understanding is what you bring into play when cultivating. And it makes a huge difference.

 

@Taomeow, thank you for your kind words. Intelligence respects intelligence, this is a common fact in life. Let me take a stab at my own question:

 

Qi is neutral

Personal power is directional

Qi is senses-related

Personal power is spirit-sense related

 

Qi is the mother

Personal power is the offspring?

 

 

 

 

L1

[Apech]

just to make a contribution to the debate, I was thinking along the lines that

 

a) you gather personal power in order to effect change in your life building towards freedom, you do this by challenging fears and boundaries and breaking down routines (warrior and hunter).

 

b ) qi ( or enhanced qi) is the effect of gathering personal power on your body/mind.

 

Now I've written it out it doesn't sound as good ... funny how things sound better when you think them (ha ha).

 

Cheers

 

John

Edited April 22, 2010 by apepch7

[宁]

and a good contribution it is. as you see, it's not that we're not aware of these subtileties, but our training is to express them and create a structure of thought...

which in turn structures the mind - like the structuring of water crystals - and further enhances the practice itself...

[xenolith]

Qi is energy like bike is transportation. If you're peddling it is...if you're not it isn't.

 

p.s. peddle.

Edited April 24, 2010 by xenolith