Qi is NOT Energy

[宁]

q1 is interesting.. do you experience a difference ?

 

The post-heaven Yuan Qi is experienced during MCO building the neutral Qi field of the lower abdominal. Or Cinnabar, as it is usually called. It is also experienced during the 5 E Fusion... This is how I got to experience Yuan Qi in it's post-heaven configuration.

Pre-heaven Yuan Qi - I think we only experience the moment we drain it, namely with intense physical pleasure associated with sex (not healing love, I mean just ordinary explosive mind-boggling sex), or the pleasure associated with a great meal (not bigu or daoist nutrition diet). Or associated with any pleasurable, or non-pleasurable draining intense experience, for that matter...

To me, the difference is that post-heaven Yuan Qi seems more easily convertible into post-heaven Qi, throuth sensation and feeling...

I have no direct experience of pre-heaven Qi though..

To witness pre-heaven Yuan Qi in it's non-manifested inherent configuration, I think we need a special state of mind, or the emergence of a different kind of mind/spirit.

These are my experiences, and my thoughts re, cat.

 

Any thoughts?

Edited June 30, 2010 by Little1

[Stigweard]

[宁]

...Supported by Yuan Qi (Congenital Qi, stored in the Kidneys), Zong Qi is then transformed into Zheng Qi (True Qi), which in its yin aspect becomes Ying Qi (what flows through the meridians) and in its yang aspect becomes Wei Qi (which protects us from external pathogens)."

 

Thanx a bunch Stig!

 

Supported (emphasis mine) = you take from it, the way you take from a bank account.

Only this bank account can't be 're-filled'.

Or can it? This was one of my questions, more precisely:

 

Q2: What is the principle that permits the turning/changing (bianhua)

of post-heaven Yuan Qi to pre-heaven Yuan Qi?

[gendao]

- we know two main types of Qi: pre-heaven and post-heaven (XianTien and HouTien)

- this is also the case with Yuan Qi, it can be either pre-heaven or post-heaven

 

Q1: What is the difference between pre-heaven Yuan Qi and post-heaven Yuan Qi?

Q2: What is the principle that permits the turning (Bianhua) of post-heaven Yuan Qi to pre-heaven Yuan Qi?

 

These are mysteries of the youthful longevity path.

Many practitioners can turn post-heaven Qi into post-heaven Yuan Qi, thereby sparing the FINITE resources of pre-heaven Yuan Qi.

The resources of pre-heaven Yuan Qi are said to be the ones that account for extended/prolongued life and youthfulness.

Interesting, I thought Yuan Qi was prenatal by definition - since it is inherited from our parents before birth? Didn't know there was a postnatal Yuan Qi - where would it come from & got a source for that?

 

Also, do you kow if Q2 is possible, then? Master Chen says that Yuan Qi can be alchemically made from yang jing...but doesn't detail how...

Pre-heaven Qi = Yuan Qi, original Qi, is stored on the kidneys and it directly feeds the kidneys. If there is no Yuan Qi you will not be born. It initially comes from the parents. Genetic diseases come from imbalances here and come from the parents. Even these are still changeable. Through alchemical processes it can also be made from Yang Jing. If Yuan Qi is strong then have health, longevity, youthfulness, etc.

Edited June 30, 2010 by vortex

[Stigweard]

Thanx a bunch Stig!

 

Supported (emphasis mine) = you take from it, the way you take from a bank account.

Only this bank account can't be 're-filled'.

Or can it? This was one of my questions, more precisely:

Towards a new interpretation of Taoist Alchemy

 

By Bryn Orr

 

 

Taoist alchemy is a meditational practice which aims at

increasing the practitioners sensitivity and control over the subtle

energy (chi) fields both within the body's internal environment

and external surroundings. Classical descriptions of this type of

practice state that when a high level of proficiency is gained

(through long-term daily practice) the practitioner will begin to

experience intense, ecstatic states and to awaken latent

extrasensory perceptions and other 'psychic' phenomenon.

 

 

There are a number of different approaches and beliefs

regarding the practice of Taoist alchemy, just as there are a

number of different schools of Taoism eg. Mao-shan p'ai,

Complete Reality (Ch'uan-chen tao), Spiritual Treasure Sect

(Ling-pao p'ai), etc. Despite using common nomenclature and

core concepts, such as 'Fusion of fire & water' (Kan/Li),

'Awakening the primordial treasure' (Yuan chi) and 'Return to the

source', the interpretation of these ideas vary considerably. For

example the work of Master Mantak Chia treats these concepts

as techniques of gathering and transforming energy into various

states using the physical body as an energetic laboratory 1. This

approach is a typical example of alchemy as practiced by the

Southern School or 'School of energetics'. The Complete Reality

school, however view these central tenets of alchemy as being

merely stages in the contemplation of our own mind, which in

turn leads to an understanding of the true nature of reality 2. To

further complicate matters, some sects treat the core concepts

as a series of techniques to be practiced in a precise order,

whilst others view the core concepts as a process that naturally

unfolds as a result of deep meditation, regardless of the

particular meditative technique used to achieve this state.

 

 

It is this last idea that the remainder of this article will concern

itself with.

 

The core concepts which I have referred to previously are

outlined in one Taoist chi kung text 3 in the following order:

 

 

1. The yuan chi is awakened in the lower Tan tien using

regulated breathing, mental concentration and by placing weight

underside (bringing centre of gravity to correspond with lower

Tan tien - hence the importance of standing postures and

developing the 'root' in T'ai Chi).

 

 

2. This yuan chi begins to ascend & descend between the lower

Tan tien and middle Tan tien or between the heart (fire - li) and

the kidneys (water - kan). This is referred to as 'the fusion of fire

& water'.

 

 

3. The yuan chi is then able to move above the heart & into the

head. It then flows up & down between the lower Tan tien & the

upper Tan tien. The upper Tan tien is known as the Ni-wan or

'mud pill' and is located in the centre of the brain. The Ni-wan is

composed of the Hypothalamus, pineal & pituitary glands.

 

 

This stage is referred to as 'the opening of the thrusting vessel'

or the zhong-gong direct flowing method 4. This central path of

the thrusting vessel flows from the perineum, through the centre

of the body or the spinal canal, up to the crown of the head. It

may correspond to the Shushumna meridian of Kriya yoga, an

Indian system with many parallels to Taoist alchemy.

 

 

4. The yuan chi begins to circulate through the microcosmic

orbit, which is an energy loop running up the posterior surface of

the spine and down through the anterior midline of the body into

the lower Tan tien. This can lead to spontaneous movements

and the production of the jade elixir. The jade elixir is the

production of saliva that tastes sweet or honey-like.

 

 

5. Next the green dragon and white tiger vessels are opened by

the yuan chi. These correlate to the left & right paths of the

thrusting vessel found in Mantak Chia's system 5 and also to the

Ida & Pingalla meridians mentioned in Kriya Yoga. It may be

these vessels that are accessed through deep needling of the

front points of the thrusting vessel (Stomach 30 and kidney

11-21) in acupuncture.

 

 

6. After the chi moving in the left and right mai (green

dragon/white tiger) are brought together this leads to sounds

(different from normal digestive sounds) being heard. This is the

'hiss of the dragon and the roar of the tiger.' Then the chi will

vibrate in an inner chamber of the lower Tan tien. This signifies

the formation of the golden foetus, an immortal spirit body which

is able to access energies & planes of existence other than that

occupied by our physical body. In the book 'Taoist Yoga' , this

stage is known as 'driving the primordial spirit into the lower Tan

tien' 6.

 

 

7. The energy of heaven and earth move through the thrusting

vessel and into the lower Tan tien, which provides energetic

nourishment for the golden foetus.

 

 

8. A golden light then appears to shine behind the eyes and the

practitioner has feelings of ecstasy, which is a confirmatory sign

that the latent abilities are awakened, immortality is gained and

the goal of alchemy has been reached. It is interesting to note

that 'The secret of the golden flower' also speaks of the golden

light behind the eyes as a sign of great progress in Taoist

meditation 7.

 

 

The work of researcher Itzhak Bentov, a long-term meditator and

author, is relevant to this discussion because despite being

primarily a study of the physiological effects of Kundalini yoga

and transcendental meditation, his work shows a greater

number of direct parallels to Taoist alchemy than it does to the

aforementioned systems. Bentov's work on the effects of

meditation, labelled the 'physio-kundalini' model, describes the

activation and entrainment of a number of bio-oscillators that

cause lasting changes to our physical, mental and energetic

functioning 8. These changes occur through daily meditational

practice, and from personal experience, regardless of the

meditative technique used.

 

 

As such, Bentov's work may go a long way towards helping

modern practitioners to understand what the ancient masters

were trying to explain when they wrote the often obscure

manuals on Taoist alchemy.

Bentov's physio-kundalini model outlines the following stages in

the meditative process:

 

 

1. During meditation the breathing becomes regular. This

regulated breathing controls the rhythm of the heart 9.

It is interesting to note that 'The secret of the golden flower' says

that the breath energy is the handle of the heart, thus inferring

that the heart rate cannot be influenced directly, only by altering

our breathing pattern 10. This stage correlates with the

awakening of the yuan chi at the lower Tan tien.

 

 

2. When the heart pumps this causes a pressure wave to travel

down the aorta. When this wave reaches the aortic bifurcation,

the part where the aorta splits in two to supply blood to both legs,

a portion of the pressure wave is reflected back towards the

heart. When this wave reaches the aortic valve (at the heart) it

causes the heart to beat again. This creates a standing wave

between the heart and aortic bifurcation, which in turn causes a

rhythmic up and down micro-motion throughout the body 11.

 

 

This stage of Bentov's model correlates almost exactly to the

Kan/Li cycle, if we consider that the aortic bifurcation is at

approximately the same location as the lower Tan tien. Bentov's

model has a wave travelling up and down between the heart and

aortic bifurcation, the Taoist text states that in the Kan/Li stage

energy flows between the seat of fire (the heart) and the seat of

water (lower Tan tien).

 

 

3. The micromotion of the body causes an up & down motion

within the cranial vault. This creates a gentle bumping of the

brain against the cranial vault. This interaction of the brain and

cranial vault creates acoustic (and possibly electrical) plane

waves, which in turn set up a resonant wave in the hollow,

fluid-filled ventricles inside the brain 12.

 

 

This idea of an energy which firstly moves between the lower

Tan tien & heart (or middle Tan tien) and then between the lower

Tan tien and the brain (upper Tan tien) is paralleled in the Taoist

practice of 'opening the thrusting vessel', mentioned above.

 

 

4. The movement of the fluid in the ventricles acts on the nerves

of the middle ear, causing inner sounds to be heard 13.

 

 

This offers a physiological explanation of the inner sounds

referred to, by Taoist mystics, as 'the hiss of the dragon and the

roar of the tiger'.

(It is also worth noting that the lateral ventricles resemble the

Indian description of the third eye chakra which is described as a

flower with two petals, one to the left and the other to the right of

the centre.)

 

 

5. The acoustic standing waves in the ventricles creates an up &

down movement in the corpus callosum (the bundle of nerves

connecting the two hemispheres of the brain). This is translated

into electrical energy within the brain tissue. The electrical activity

follows a circular path through the sensory cortex, which leads to

corresponding sensations in various parts of the body 14.

 

 

"It has been found by researchers that the 'energy sensation'

travels up the legs to the spine to the top of the head, then down

the face, through the throat, to a terminal point in the abdomen."

15

Whilst Bentov's research was primarily concerned with Kundalini

yoga, it is interesting to note that he found that the energy

sensations experienced by meditators follow a path that is very

similar to the microcosmic orbit of Taoist alchemy 16. This is a

stark contrast to the path of energy discussed in the classical

texts of Kundalini yoga which describe a path of energy starting

at the perineum, ascending the spine and ending at the crown of

the head 17.

 

 

6. Through regular meditation, the circuit through the sensory

cortex begins to polarise the grey matter in one specific direction.

This creates a permanent circuit in the brain and helps to

release stored stresses, which may account for the lasting

changes in physical and psychological functioning caused by

meditation. This circuit grows to include the pleasure centres in

the limbic system, the motor cortex (which controls the voluntary

muscle movement) and areas of the visual cortex. Effects of the

stimulation of these areas include feelings of bliss,

spontaneous bodily movements and sensations of being

surrounded by a brilliant light 18.

 

 

As we know from our earlier discussion of the stages of Taoist

alchemical meditation, the sensation of bliss and golden light

are both signs which confirm great progress towards the

meditators 'return to the source' or union with the Tao. Our Taoist

text also mentions that the establishment of the microcosmic

orbit can lead to spontaneous movement, in full agreement with

Bentov's research.

The idea of meditation establishing an electrical circuit in the

brain finds a number of parallels in the Taoist tradition. Mantak

Chia has a number of advanced alchemical formulas that draw

energy into the brain, these include the 'sealing of the five

senses' and 'congress of heaven & earth', which fuses the

energies of the pineal & pituitary gland in the cauldron of the

hypothalamus 19. The Mao Shan Taoist tradition has a practice

known as 'walking the nine chambers of the crystal palace

[upper Tan tien]' which involves visualising various deities within

different parts of the brain 20.

 

These nine chambers are the highest field of the elixir, chamber

of the mysterious elixir, chamber of the Jade Emperor, chamber

of the moving pearls, chamber of splendour, purple chamber,

chamber of the ultimate, cover of heaven and the chamber of

government. The third eye is also mentioned but is considered

as an opening rather than a chamber, as such it is called the

'Entrance of the spirit' 21. These chambers may be an analogy

used by Taoist mystics to convey the formation of the

aforementioned electrical circuit within the brain. The walking

through the chambers would represent movement of electrical

current or qi from one part of the brain to another.

 

 

 

In conclusion it can be seen that there is some merit to the idea

that Taoist alchemy may be a description of a natural process

which occurs through the practice of meditation, regardless of

the particular technique or tradition, and not merely a collection

of ancient visualisation techniques. This is not to say that the

ideas contained within this paper are the truth of the matter, but

rather that they should encourage further investigation into these

ancient arts, and comparison with contemporary research such

as that done by Itzhak Bentov and others. I welcome feedback on

this article and hope that it inspires the reader to re-examine the

wisdom of the ancients.

 

 

Bryn Orr lectures in Chinese Exercise Therapy at the Australian

College of Natural Medicine. Bryn is a Chi Kung (qigong)

practitioner and a Reiki/Seichim master who has published

numerous articles on Taoist Alchemy and energetics for

magazines such as Silvercord, Magick, Insight, Mystic

Revelations and The Pacific Journal of Oriental Medicine.

[Magia]

.....

Edited July 8, 2010 by Magia

[Starjumper]

Edited July 1, 2010 by Starjumper7

[Ya Mu]

Towards a new interpretation of Taoist Alchemy

 

By Bryn Orr

 

 

Taoist alchemy is a meditational practice which aims at

increasing the practitioners sensitivity and control over the subtle

energy (chi) fields both within the body's internal environment

and external surroundings. Classical descriptions of this type of

practice state that when a high level of proficiency is gained

(through long-term daily practice) the practitioner will begin to

experience intense, ecstatic states and to awaken latent

extrasensory perceptions and other 'psychic' phenomenon.

 

 

There are a number of different approaches and beliefs

regarding the practice of Taoist alchemy, just as there are a

number of different schools of Taoism eg. Mao-shan p'ai,

Complete Reality (Ch'uan-chen tao), Spiritual Treasure Sect

(Ling-pao p'ai), etc. Despite using common nomenclature and

core concepts, such as 'Fusion of fire & water' (Kan/Li),

'Awakening the primordial treasure' (Yuan chi) and 'Return to the

source', the interpretation of these ideas vary considerably. For

example the work of Master Mantak Chia treats these concepts

as techniques of gathering and transforming energy into various

states using the physical body as an energetic laboratory 1. This

approach is a typical example of alchemy as practiced by the

Southern School or 'School of energetics'. The Complete Reality

school, however view these central tenets of alchemy as being

merely stages in the contemplation of our own mind, which in

turn leads to an understanding of the true nature of reality 2. To

further complicate matters, some sects treat the core concepts

as a series of techniques to be practiced in a precise order,

whilst others view the core concepts as a process that naturally

unfolds as a result of deep meditation, regardless of the

particular meditative technique used to achieve this state.

 

 

It is this last idea that the remainder of this article will concern

itself with.

 

The core concepts which I have referred to previously are

outlined in one Taoist chi kung text 3 in the following order:

 

 

1. The yuan chi is awakened in the lower Tan tien using

regulated breathing, mental concentration and by placing weight

underside (bringing centre of gravity to correspond with lower

Tan tien - hence the importance of standing postures and

developing the 'root' in T'ai Chi).

 

 

2. This yuan chi begins to ascend & descend between the lower

Tan tien and middle Tan tien or between the heart (fire - li) and

the kidneys (water - kan). This is referred to as 'the fusion of fire

& water'.

 

 

3. The yuan chi is then able to move above the heart & into the

head. It then flows up & down between the lower Tan tien & the

upper Tan tien. The upper Tan tien is known as the Ni-wan or

'mud pill' and is located in the centre of the brain. The Ni-wan is

composed of the Hypothalamus, pineal & pituitary glands.

 

 

This stage is referred to as 'the opening of the thrusting vessel'

or the zhong-gong direct flowing method 4. This central path of

the thrusting vessel flows from the perineum, through the centre

of the body or the spinal canal, up to the crown of the head. It

may correspond to the Shushumna meridian of Kriya yoga, an

Indian system with many parallels to Taoist alchemy.

 

 

4. The yuan chi begins to circulate through the microcosmic

orbit, which is an energy loop running up the posterior surface of

the spine and down through the anterior midline of the body into

the lower Tan tien. This can lead to spontaneous movements

and the production of the jade elixir. The jade elixir is the

production of saliva that tastes sweet or honey-like.

 

 

5. Next the green dragon and white tiger vessels are opened by

the yuan chi. These correlate to the left & right paths of the

thrusting vessel found in Mantak Chia's system 5 and also to the

Ida & Pingalla meridians mentioned in Kriya Yoga. It may be

these vessels that are accessed through deep needling of the

front points of the thrusting vessel (Stomach 30 and kidney

11-21) in acupuncture.

 

 

6. After the chi moving in the left and right mai (green

dragon/white tiger) are brought together this leads to sounds

(different from normal digestive sounds) being heard. This is the

'hiss of the dragon and the roar of the tiger.' Then the chi will

vibrate in an inner chamber of the lower Tan tien. This signifies

the formation of the golden foetus, an immortal spirit body which

is able to access energies & planes of existence other than that

occupied by our physical body. In the book 'Taoist Yoga' , this

stage is known as 'driving the primordial spirit into the lower Tan

tien' 6.

 

 

7. The energy of heaven and earth move through the thrusting

vessel and into the lower Tan tien, which provides energetic

nourishment for the golden foetus.

 

 

8. A golden light then appears to shine behind the eyes and the

practitioner has feelings of ecstasy, which is a confirmatory sign

that the latent abilities are awakened, immortality is gained and

the goal of alchemy has been reached. It is interesting to note

that 'The secret of the golden flower' also speaks of the golden

light behind the eyes as a sign of great progress in Taoist

meditation 7.

 

 

The work of researcher Itzhak Bentov, a long-term meditator and

author, is relevant to this discussion because despite being

primarily a study of the physiological effects of Kundalini yoga

and transcendental meditation, his work shows a greater

number of direct parallels to Taoist alchemy than it does to the

aforementioned systems. Bentov's work on the effects of

meditation, labelled the 'physio-kundalini' model, describes the

activation and entrainment of a number of bio-oscillators that

cause lasting changes to our physical, mental and energetic

functioning 8. These changes occur through daily meditational

practice, and from personal experience, regardless of the

meditative technique used.

 

 

As such, Bentov's work may go a long way towards helping

modern practitioners to understand what the ancient masters

were trying to explain when they wrote the often obscure

manuals on Taoist alchemy.

Bentov's physio-kundalini model outlines the following stages in

the meditative process:

 

 

1. During meditation the breathing becomes regular. This

regulated breathing controls the rhythm of the heart 9.

It is interesting to note that 'The secret of the golden flower' says

that the breath energy is the handle of the heart, thus inferring

that the heart rate cannot be influenced directly, only by altering

our breathing pattern 10. This stage correlates with the

awakening of the yuan chi at the lower Tan tien.

 

 

2. When the heart pumps this causes a pressure wave to travel

down the aorta. When this wave reaches the aortic bifurcation,

the part where the aorta splits in two to supply blood to both legs,

a portion of the pressure wave is reflected back towards the

heart. When this wave reaches the aortic valve (at the heart) it

causes the heart to beat again. This creates a standing wave

between the heart and aortic bifurcation, which in turn causes a

rhythmic up and down micro-motion throughout the body 11.

 

 

This stage of Bentov's model correlates almost exactly to the

Kan/Li cycle, if we consider that the aortic bifurcation is at

approximately the same location as the lower Tan tien. Bentov's

model has a wave travelling up and down between the heart and

aortic bifurcation, the Taoist text states that in the Kan/Li stage

energy flows between the seat of fire (the heart) and the seat of

water (lower Tan tien).

 

 

3. The micromotion of the body causes an up & down motion

within the cranial vault. This creates a gentle bumping of the

brain against the cranial vault. This interaction of the brain and

cranial vault creates acoustic (and possibly electrical) plane

waves, which in turn set up a resonant wave in the hollow,

fluid-filled ventricles inside the brain 12.

 

 

This idea of an energy which firstly moves between the lower

Tan tien & heart (or middle Tan tien) and then between the lower

Tan tien and the brain (upper Tan tien) is paralleled in the Taoist

practice of 'opening the thrusting vessel', mentioned above.

 

 

4. The movement of the fluid in the ventricles acts on the nerves

of the middle ear, causing inner sounds to be heard 13.

 

 

This offers a physiological explanation of the inner sounds

referred to, by Taoist mystics, as 'the hiss of the dragon and the

roar of the tiger'.

(It is also worth noting that the lateral ventricles resemble the

Indian description of the third eye chakra which is described as a

flower with two petals, one to the left and the other to the right of

the centre.)

 

 

5. The acoustic standing waves in the ventricles creates an up &

down movement in the corpus callosum (the bundle of nerves

connecting the two hemispheres of the brain). This is translated

into electrical energy within the brain tissue. The electrical activity

follows a circular path through the sensory cortex, which leads to

corresponding sensations in various parts of the body 14.

 

 

"It has been found by researchers that the 'energy sensation'

travels up the legs to the spine to the top of the head, then down

the face, through the throat, to a terminal point in the abdomen."

15

Whilst Bentov's research was primarily concerned with Kundalini

yoga, it is interesting to note that he found that the energy

sensations experienced by meditators follow a path that is very

similar to the microcosmic orbit of Taoist alchemy 16. This is a

stark contrast to the path of energy discussed in the classical

texts of Kundalini yoga which describe a path of energy starting

at the perineum, ascending the spine and ending at the crown of

the head 17.

 

 

6. Through regular meditation, the circuit through the sensory

cortex begins to polarise the grey matter in one specific direction.

This creates a permanent circuit in the brain and helps to

release stored stresses, which may account for the lasting

changes in physical and psychological functioning caused by

meditation. This circuit grows to include the pleasure centres in

the limbic system, the motor cortex (which controls the voluntary

muscle movement) and areas of the visual cortex. Effects of the

stimulation of these areas include feelings of bliss,

spontaneous bodily movements and sensations of being

surrounded by a brilliant light 18.

 

 

As we know from our earlier discussion of the stages of Taoist

alchemical meditation, the sensation of bliss and golden light

are both signs which confirm great progress towards the

meditators 'return to the source' or union with the Tao. Our Taoist

text also mentions that the establishment of the microcosmic

orbit can lead to spontaneous movement, in full agreement with

Bentov's research.

The idea of meditation establishing an electrical circuit in the

brain finds a number of parallels in the Taoist tradition. Mantak

Chia has a number of advanced alchemical formulas that draw

energy into the brain, these include the 'sealing of the five

senses' and 'congress of heaven & earth', which fuses the

energies of the pineal & pituitary gland in the cauldron of the

hypothalamus 19. The Mao Shan Taoist tradition has a practice

known as 'walking the nine chambers of the crystal palace

[upper Tan tien]' which involves visualising various deities within

different parts of the brain 20.

 

These nine chambers are the highest field of the elixir, chamber

of the mysterious elixir, chamber of the Jade Emperor, chamber

of the moving pearls, chamber of splendour, purple chamber,

chamber of the ultimate, cover of heaven and the chamber of

government. The third eye is also mentioned but is considered

as an opening rather than a chamber, as such it is called the

'Entrance of the spirit' 21. These chambers may be an analogy

used by Taoist mystics to convey the formation of the

aforementioned electrical circuit within the brain. The walking

through the chambers would represent movement of electrical

current or qi from one part of the brain to another.

 

 

 

In conclusion it can be seen that there is some merit to the idea

that Taoist alchemy may be a description of a natural process

which occurs through the practice of meditation, regardless of

the particular technique or tradition, and not merely a collection

of ancient visualisation techniques. This is not to say that the

ideas contained within this paper are the truth of the matter, but

rather that they should encourage further investigation into these

ancient arts, and comparison with contemporary research such

as that done by Itzhak Bentov and others. I welcome feedback on

this article and hope that it inspires the reader to re-examine the

wisdom of the ancients.

 

 

Bryn Orr lectures in Chinese Exercise Therapy at the Australian

College of Natural Medicine. Bryn is a Chi Kung (qigong)

practitioner and a Reiki/Seichim master who has published

numerous articles on Taoist Alchemy and energetics for

magazines such as Silvercord, Magick, Insight, Mystic

Revelations and The Pacific Journal of Oriental Medicine.

Good info.

Many of the aspects talked about here are confirmed in my system of practice.

[宁]

Interesting, I thought Yuan Qi was prenatal by definition - since it is inherited from our parents before birth? Didn't know there was a postnatal Yuan Qi - where would it come from & got a source for that?

 

From what I know, it's possible. I've written some detail on it here:

 

The post-heaven Yuan Qi is experienced during MCO building the neutral Qi field of the lower abdominal. Or Cinnabar, as it is usually called. It is also experienced during the 5 E Fusion... This is how I got to experience Yuan Qi in it's post-heaven configuration.

Pre-heaven Yuan Qi - I think we only experience the moment we drain it, namely with intense physical pleasure associated with sex (not healing love, I mean just ordinary explosive mind-boggling sex), or the pleasure associated with a great meal (not bigu or daoist nutrition diet). Or associated with any pleasurable, or non-pleasurable draining intense experience, for that matter...

To me, the difference is that post-heaven Yuan Qi seems more easily convertible into post-heaven Qi, throuth sensation and feeling...

I have no direct experience of pre-heaven Qi though..

To witness pre-heaven Yuan Qi in it's non-manifested inherent configuration, I think we need a special state of mind, or the emergence of a different kind of mind/spirit.

 

Also, do you kow if Q2 is possible, then? Master Chen says that Yuan Qi can be alchemically made from yang jing...but doesn't detail how...

 

As you see, the terminology is frustratingly difficult.

I don't know what Yang Jing is.

It suffices for one ingredient to be named in a wrong way, and all the process is just a waste of time, and probably also hazardous.

 

The methodology is also different from one school to another (thanks @Stig, keep 'em coming!), and also you can't use techniques from one school to complement a system that belongs to another...

 

Btw, I'm glad people are still interested in threads like this!

[Starjumper]

I think that people try to make things too complicated with some of their definitions, and the different types of chi can actually be explained in a fairly simple and straightforward manner. Also, one can cultivate more chi than just from air and food because some types of movements can generate chi that can be absorbed, in addition to gathering external chi. The chi that you get from air and food is pretty limited, the others aren't.

 

Revelation comes from being filled with divinity.... if one is filled with chi, the dulling of the senses is blown away... telepathic communication is our natural way I think, but we are fogged by life such as it is.

Meditating one night in my living room in the dark, I felt a line of energy running round the parameter of the room, and sensed it as kind of infra red. Turned out it was a mouse in the skirtingboard. Hunters used to sense their prey, as well as call them. Much we have lost, can be regained as we clear ourselves out of the way. Less self, more receptivity. You know this already of course!

 

Yes, it is wonderful to become aware of more senses and to discover how they can be used. I've found that when my chi power increases in a balanced way that I become more psychic, telepathic, have more premonitions, and synchronicity, but I don't know anything about divinity.

[三江源]

The post-heaven Yuan Qi is experienced during MCO building the neutral Qi field of the lower abdominal. Or Cinnabar, as it is usually called. It is also experienced during the 5 E Fusion... This is how I got to experience Yuan Qi in it's post-heaven configuration.

Pre-heaven Yuan Qi - I think we only experience the moment we drain it, namely with intense physical pleasure associated with sex (not healing love, I mean just ordinary explosive mind-boggling sex), or the pleasure associated with a great meal (not bigu or daoist nutrition diet). Or associated with any pleasurable, or non-pleasurable draining intense experience, for that matter...

To me, the difference is that post-heaven Yuan Qi seems more easily convertible into post-heaven Qi, throuth sensation and feeling...

I have no direct experience of pre-heaven Qi though..

To witness pre-heaven Yuan Qi in it's non-manifested inherent configuration, I think we need a special state of mind, or the emergence of a different kind of mind/spirit.

These are my experiences, and my thoughts re, cat.

 

Any thoughts?

 

Hi Little 1. I'd love to sit down and have dinner with you and Michael Winn sometime. Pre heaven Yuan Qi is what we come in with, from our ancestors, yes? Our Jing? We feel it as the essential flavour of 'us'.. it is our signature note, the care and attention and flair and stamina we may have or not have, at the moment of orgasm. The essence of how much we are able to respond to the food we are eating and stay with it, or wether we are a little absent and flavour is amorphous to us. Is this it? That we taste flavours right down to our toes, or we avoid challenging tastes altogether, because we dont have the reserves with which to meet the experience. How present we are able to be. How shiny is our presence, how alive are our eyes. Is this our pre heaven qi.. it's what we came in with.

 

What about what I know as Primordial heaven? That is the clear light of bliss, the void. we experience it in meditation or deep states of energy work. This is Yuan Qi. And we can transmute our energies into it via alchemy.

 

Yuan qi emerges from a place beyond polarity, so this is how we transmute later energies. We move into the non polarised place.

 

 

I remember Michael saying that feeling cut of from God is lack of Yuan Qi.

[三江源]

 

 

Yes, it is wonderful to become aware of more senses and to discover how they can be used. I've found that when my chi power increases in a balanced way that I become more psychic, telepathic, have more premonitions, and synchronicity, but I don't know anything about divinity.

 

Hi, yes. About the divinity. When I worked with a very powerful and very pragmatic chinese kung fu master we shared a lot of energy and within it for me was KwanYin and Celestial Love, Crystal Skulls and the felt experience of perfection in everyone. For him, no, there wasnt this. I asked Zhendi Wu about how we could have experienced it so diversely and she said 'Shen".

[Ya Mu]

I think that people try to make things too complicated with some of their definitions, and the different types of chi can actually be explained in a fairly simple and straightforward manner. Also, one can cultivate more chi than just from air and food because some types of movements can generate chi that can be absorbed, in addition to gathering external chi. The chi that you get from air and food is pretty limited, the others aren't.

...

Agree with this. Can be potentially without limitation (bold emphasis mine).

 

Hi, yes. About the divinity. When I worked with a very powerful and very pragmatic chinese kung fu master we shared a lot of energy and within it for me was KwanYin and Celestial Love, Crystal Skulls and the felt experience of perfection in everyone. For him, no, there wasnt this. I asked Zhendi Wu about how we could have experienced it so diversely and she said 'Shen".

Your last sentence is one of the things I am talking about when I say "Depends on who you are."

 

...for me was KwanYin...

Ah...Nice!.

 

Towards a new interpretation of Taoist Alchemy

 

By Bryn Orr

 

 

Taoist alchemy is a meditational practice which aims at

increasing the practitioners sensitivity and control over the subtle

energy (chi) fields both within the body's internal environment

and external surroundings. Classical descriptions of this type of

practice state that when a high level of proficiency is gained

(through long-term daily practice) the practitioner will begin to

experience intense, ecstatic states and to awaken latent

extrasensory perceptions and other 'psychic' phenomenon.

 

 

There are a number of different approaches and beliefs

regarding the practice of Taoist alchemy, just as there are a

number of different schools of Taoism eg. Mao-shan p'ai,

Complete Reality (Ch'uan-chen tao), Spiritual Treasure Sect

(Ling-pao p'ai), etc. Despite using common nomenclature and

core concepts, such as 'Fusion of fire & water' (Kan/Li),

'Awakening the primordial treasure' (Yuan chi) and 'Return to the

source', the interpretation of these ideas vary considerably. For

example the work of Master Mantak Chia treats these concepts

as techniques of gathering and transforming energy into various

states using the physical body as an energetic laboratory 1. This

approach is a typical example of alchemy as practiced by the

Southern School or 'School of energetics'. The Complete Reality

school, however view these central tenets of alchemy as being

merely stages in the contemplation of our own mind, which in

turn leads to an understanding of the true nature of reality 2. To

further complicate matters, some sects treat the core concepts

as a series of techniques to be practiced in a precise order,

whilst others view the core concepts as a process that naturally

unfolds as a result of deep meditation, regardless of the

particular meditative technique used to achieve this state.

 

 

It is this last idea that the remainder of this article will concern

itself with.

 

The core concepts which I have referred to previously are

outlined in one Taoist chi kung text 3 in the following order:

 

 

1. The yuan chi is awakened in the lower Tan tien using

regulated breathing, mental concentration and by placing weight

underside (bringing centre of gravity to correspond with lower

Tan tien - hence the importance of standing postures and

developing the 'root' in T'ai Chi).

 

 

2. This yuan chi begins to ascend & descend between the lower

Tan tien and middle Tan tien or between the heart (fire - li) and

the kidneys (water - kan). This is referred to as 'the fusion of fire

& water'.

 

 

3. The yuan chi is then able to move above the heart & into the

head. It then flows up & down between the lower Tan tien & the

upper Tan tien. The upper Tan tien is known as the Ni-wan or

'mud pill' and is located in the centre of the brain. The Ni-wan is

composed of the Hypothalamus, pineal & pituitary glands.

 

 

This stage is referred to as 'the opening of the thrusting vessel'

or the zhong-gong direct flowing method 4. This central path of

the thrusting vessel flows from the perineum, through the centre

of the body or the spinal canal, up to the crown of the head. It

may correspond to the Shushumna meridian of Kriya yoga, an

Indian system with many parallels to Taoist alchemy.

 

 

4. The yuan chi begins to circulate through the microcosmic

orbit, which is an energy loop running up the posterior surface of

the spine and down through the anterior midline of the body into

the lower Tan tien. This can lead to spontaneous movements

and the production of the jade elixir. The jade elixir is the

production of saliva that tastes sweet or honey-like.

 

 

5. Next the green dragon and white tiger vessels are opened by

the yuan chi. These correlate to the left & right paths of the

thrusting vessel found in Mantak Chia's system 5 and also to the

Ida & Pingalla meridians mentioned in Kriya Yoga. It may be

these vessels that are accessed through deep needling of the

front points of the thrusting vessel (Stomach 30 and kidney

11-21) in acupuncture.

 

 

6. After the chi moving in the left and right mai (green

dragon/white tiger) are brought together this leads to sounds

(different from normal digestive sounds) being heard. This is the

'hiss of the dragon and the roar of the tiger.' Then the chi will

vibrate in an inner chamber of the lower Tan tien. This signifies

the formation of the golden foetus, an immortal spirit body which

is able to access energies & planes of existence other than that

occupied by our physical body. In the book 'Taoist Yoga' , this

stage is known as 'driving the primordial spirit into the lower Tan

tien' 6.

 

 

7. The energy of heaven and earth move through the thrusting

vessel and into the lower Tan tien, which provides energetic

nourishment for the golden foetus.

 

 

8. A golden light then appears to shine behind the eyes and the

practitioner has feelings of ecstasy, which is a confirmatory sign

that the latent abilities are awakened, immortality is gained and

the goal of alchemy has been reached. It is interesting to note

that 'The secret of the golden flower' also speaks of the golden

light behind the eyes as a sign of great progress in Taoist

meditation 7.

 

 

The work of researcher Itzhak Bentov, a long-term meditator and

author, is relevant to this discussion because despite being

primarily a study of the physiological effects of Kundalini yoga

and transcendental meditation, his work shows a greater

number of direct parallels to Taoist alchemy than it does to the

aforementioned systems. Bentov's work on the effects of

meditation, labelled the 'physio-kundalini' model, describes the

activation and entrainment of a number of bio-oscillators that

cause lasting changes to our physical, mental and energetic

functioning 8. These changes occur through daily meditational

practice, and from personal experience, regardless of the

meditative technique used.

 

 

As such, Bentov's work may go a long way towards helping

modern practitioners to understand what the ancient masters

were trying to explain when they wrote the often obscure

manuals on Taoist alchemy.

Bentov's physio-kundalini model outlines the following stages in

the meditative process:

 

 

1. During meditation the breathing becomes regular. This

regulated breathing controls the rhythm of the heart 9.

It is interesting to note that 'The secret of the golden flower' says

that the breath energy is the handle of the heart, thus inferring

that the heart rate cannot be influenced directly, only by altering

our breathing pattern 10. This stage correlates with the

awakening of the yuan chi at the lower Tan tien.

 

 

2. When the heart pumps this causes a pressure wave to travel

down the aorta. When this wave reaches the aortic bifurcation,

the part where the aorta splits in two to supply blood to both legs,

a portion of the pressure wave is reflected back towards the

heart. When this wave reaches the aortic valve (at the heart) it

causes the heart to beat again. This creates a standing wave

between the heart and aortic bifurcation, which in turn causes a

rhythmic up and down micro-motion throughout the body 11.

 

 

This stage of Bentov's model correlates almost exactly to the

Kan/Li cycle, if we consider that the aortic bifurcation is at

approximately the same location as the lower Tan tien. Bentov's

model has a wave travelling up and down between the heart and

aortic bifurcation, the Taoist text states that in the Kan/Li stage

energy flows between the seat of fire (the heart) and the seat of

water (lower Tan tien).

 

 

3. The micromotion of the body causes an up & down motion

within the cranial vault. This creates a gentle bumping of the

brain against the cranial vault. This interaction of the brain and

cranial vault creates acoustic (and possibly electrical) plane

waves, which in turn set up a resonant wave in the hollow,

fluid-filled ventricles inside the brain 12.

 

 

This idea of an energy which firstly moves between the lower

Tan tien & heart (or middle Tan tien) and then between the lower

Tan tien and the brain (upper Tan tien) is paralleled in the Taoist

practice of 'opening the thrusting vessel', mentioned above.

 

 

4. The movement of the fluid in the ventricles acts on the nerves

of the middle ear, causing inner sounds to be heard 13.

 

 

This offers a physiological explanation of the inner sounds

referred to, by Taoist mystics, as 'the hiss of the dragon and the

roar of the tiger'.

(It is also worth noting that the lateral ventricles resemble the

Indian description of the third eye chakra which is described as a

flower with two petals, one to the left and the other to the right of

the centre.)

 

 

5. The acoustic standing waves in the ventricles creates an up &

down movement in the corpus callosum (the bundle of nerves

connecting the two hemispheres of the brain). This is translated

into electrical energy within the brain tissue. The electrical activity

follows a circular path through the sensory cortex, which leads to

corresponding sensations in various parts of the body 14.

 

 

"It has been found by researchers that the 'energy sensation'

travels up the legs to the spine to the top of the head, then down

the face, through the throat, to a terminal point in the abdomen."

15

Whilst Bentov's research was primarily concerned with Kundalini

yoga, it is interesting to note that he found that the energy

sensations experienced by meditators follow a path that is very

similar to the microcosmic orbit of Taoist alchemy 16. This is a

stark contrast to the path of energy discussed in the classical

texts of Kundalini yoga which describe a path of energy starting

at the perineum, ascending the spine and ending at the crown of

the head 17.

 

 

6. Through regular meditation, the circuit through the sensory

cortex begins to polarise the grey matter in one specific direction.

This creates a permanent circuit in the brain and helps to

release stored stresses, which may account for the lasting

changes in physical and psychological functioning caused by

meditation. This circuit grows to include the pleasure centres in

the limbic system, the motor cortex (which controls the voluntary

muscle movement) and areas of the visual cortex. Effects of the

stimulation of these areas include feelings of bliss,

spontaneous bodily movements and sensations of being

surrounded by a brilliant light 18.

 

 

As we know from our earlier discussion of the stages of Taoist

alchemical meditation, the sensation of bliss and golden light

are both signs which confirm great progress towards the

meditators 'return to the source' or union with the Tao. Our Taoist

text also mentions that the establishment of the microcosmic

orbit can lead to spontaneous movement, in full agreement with

Bentov's research.

The idea of meditation establishing an electrical circuit in the

brain finds a number of parallels in the Taoist tradition. Mantak

Chia has a number of advanced alchemical formulas that draw

energy into the brain, these include the 'sealing of the five

senses' and 'congress of heaven & earth', which fuses the

energies of the pineal & pituitary gland in the cauldron of the

hypothalamus 19. The Mao Shan Taoist tradition has a practice

known as 'walking the nine chambers of the crystal palace

[upper Tan tien]' which involves visualising various deities within

different parts of the brain 20.

 

These nine chambers are the highest field of the elixir, chamber

of the mysterious elixir, chamber of the Jade Emperor, chamber

of the moving pearls, chamber of splendour, purple chamber,

chamber of the ultimate, cover of heaven and the chamber of

government. The third eye is also mentioned but is considered

as an opening rather than a chamber, as such it is called the

'Entrance of the spirit' 21. These chambers may be an analogy

used by Taoist mystics to convey the formation of the

aforementioned electrical circuit within the brain. The walking

through the chambers would represent movement of electrical

current or qi from one part of the brain to another.

 

 

 

In conclusion it can be seen that there is some merit to the idea

that Taoist alchemy may be a description of a natural process

which occurs through the practice of meditation, regardless of

the particular technique or tradition, and not merely a collection

of ancient visualisation techniques. This is not to say that the

ideas contained within this paper are the truth of the matter, but

rather that they should encourage further investigation into these

ancient arts, and comparison with contemporary research such

as that done by Itzhak Bentov and others. I welcome feedback on

this article and hope that it inspires the reader to re-examine the

wisdom of the ancients.

 

 

Bryn Orr lectures in Chinese Exercise Therapy at the Australian

College of Natural Medicine. Bryn is a Chi Kung (qigong)

practitioner and a Reiki/Seichim master who has published

numerous articles on Taoist Alchemy and energetics for

magazines such as Silvercord, Magick, Insight, Mystic

Revelations and The Pacific Journal of Oriental Medicine.

 

This idea of an energy which firstly moves between the lower

Tan tien & heart (or middle Tan tien) and then between the lower

Tan tien and the brain (upper Tan tien) is paralleled in the Taoist

practice of 'opening the thrusting vessel', mentioned above.

Seers see this in our system. Then they see This:

A golden light then appears to shine behind the eyes

Then this:

purple chamber

Then seers see the light from dan tian popping out the top of the head and connecting with heaven, which I assume correlates to this (as these events occur then):

Then the chi will

vibrate in an inner chamber of the lower Tan tien. This signifies

the formation of the golden foetus, an immortal spirit body which

is able to access energies & planes of existence other than that

occupied by our physical body.

And this happens along the way:

spontaneous bodily movements and sensations of being

surrounded by a brilliant light

[宁]

Hi Little 1. I'd love to sit down and have dinner with you and Michael Winn sometime.

 

I'll drink to that...

Oh, I'll lick to that! (just got a nice icecream here eheh)

 

I think I have a response to my own initial question, btw.

Post-heaven Yuan Qi is 'manufactured' via inner alchemy.

Is Qi in it's neutral state.

It is some kind of 'buffer',

that keeps us from consuming our own resources of Yuan Qi.

This is as far as the Lesser Elixir path goes, also known as Xiao Dao.

The answer to the access to pre-heaven Yuan Qi must lie in the Da Dao, or the Great Elixir methodology and perspective.

 

I sometimes wander between technicality and poetry.

For example, if we are to strip away poetry for a second, we can certainly relate to different kinds of Yuan Qi states, via our own experience:

- as unborn infants

- as spirits before entering the womb of the mother

Too bad those memories are inaccessible to most of us at the moment.

 

Starjumper said:

 

I think that people try to make things too complicated with some of their definitions, and the different types of chi can actually be explained in a fairly simple and straightforward manner.

 

I agree, by masters. They can draw five or six Chinese characters, and you wouldn't have enough time in this life to practice all that is in them.

 

Understanding is vital.

Many problems arise from lack of understanding.

And understanding doesn't have to be literal, conceptual, but it may often rely on concept as a foundation.

Edited July 1, 2010 by Little1

[Magia]

.....

Edited July 8, 2010 by Magia

[dwai]

I know, it sounds silly.

I asked the same question three years ago, here.

What is Qi?

 

Qi is Life. Without Qi, there is no Life.

[JustARandomPanda]

I think that people try to make things too complicated with some of their definitions, and the different types of chi can actually be explained in a fairly simple and straightforward manner. Also, one can cultivate more chi than just from air and food because some types of movements can generate chi that can be absorbed, in addition to gathering external chi. The chi that you get from air and food is pretty limited, the others aren't.

...

Agree with this. Can be potentially without limitation (bold emphasis mine).

 

Ya Mu, does your Gift of the Tao dvd show some of these other types of non-food/non-air Chi one can cultivate? If not where can one find a "how-to" of some exercises to practice them? Also...can you "explain the different types of chi" simply?

 

I'm still at the stage of just trying to feel chi at all - forget about being advanced enough to actually distinguish different types. My ability to feel chi has regressed in the past few months due (I suspect) to some medications I've been taking. One month I feel chi - then the day after beginning meds - BAM - unable to feel chi at all (talk about being depressed and distressed!).

 

I'm trying like hell to get back to the point of being able to feel something, anything at all. The thing I don't know is that supposedly removal of blocks (as I understand it) also means not feeling any chi either. If one has blocks one will feel the chi strongly. Dissolved blocks = not feeling chi. I think. Or perhaps not. I'm not sure about that. I don't know what to think of my current situation.

[Baguakid]

Ya Mu, does your Gift of the Tao dvd show some of these other types of non-food/non-air Chi one can cultivate? If not where can one find a "how-to" of some exercises to practice them? Also...can you "explain the different types of chi" simply?

 

I'm still at the stage of just trying to feel chi at all - forget about being advanced enough to actually distinguish different types. My ability to feel chi has regressed in the past few months due (I suspect) to some medications I've been taking. One month I feel chi - then the day after beginning meds - BAM - unable to feel chi at all (talk about being depressed and distressed!).

 

I'm trying like hell to get back to the point of being able to feel something, anything at all. The thing I don't know is that supposedly removal of blocks (as I understand it) also means not feeling any chi either. If one has blocks one will feel the chi strongly. Dissolved blocks = not feeling chi. I think. Or perhaps not. I'm not sure about that. I don't know what to think of my current situation.

 

SereneBlue, you should not practice for the goal of feeling something or your practice will never be achieved. Practice with the proper principles in mind and you'll grow from there.

 

For example, in my wuji qigong practice I stand and keep my mind at my dantian (or wuji point). If I take my mind away from those principles and look to have feeling everything will be off and I will never be successful. In my years, sometimes I have a feeling, sometimes I don't. Don't look for the feeling or you will lose everything.

 

Oh, and I liked your former avatar much, much better.

 

Best,

[dwai]

Ya Mu, does your Gift of the Tao dvd show some of these other types of non-food/non-air Chi one can cultivate? If not where can one find a "how-to" of some exercises to practice them? Also...can you "explain the different types of chi" simply?

 

I'm still at the stage of just trying to feel chi at all - forget about being advanced enough to actually distinguish different types. My ability to feel chi has regressed in the past few months due (I suspect) to some medications I've been taking. One month I feel chi - then the day after beginning meds - BAM - unable to feel chi at all (talk about being depressed and distressed!).

 

I'm trying like hell to get back to the point of being able to feel something, anything at all. The thing I don't know is that supposedly removal of blocks (as I understand it) also means not feeling any chi either. If one has blocks one will feel the chi strongly. Dissolved blocks = not feeling chi. I think. Or perhaps not. I'm not sure about that. I don't know what to think of my current situation.

 

Hi Serene,

 

My experience has been that Tai Chi/Chi Gung practice is like traveling over a mountainous terrain...there are peaks, there are valleys and there are plateaus. Usually if one is consistent with their practice, the peaks keep getting higher and therefore the valleys might seem lower. The plateaus might seem longer too..but if one perseveres, the general trend is a positive slope. Medications can indeed impair Chi sensitivity...and depending on the environment, your own state of mind, etc you will feel chi stronger or weaker on different days.

 

Here's something that works for me...maybe it will work for you. If you aren't fixed on a certain time of the day for practicing...you can use this:

 

The heaven connection (from crown point) is considered a very important aspect of practice in the school of Taiji Chuan I study. It is called the "Suspension Point"...and when you have developed sufficient sensitivity (which I assume you have since you know when you can feel chi and when not), you will feel a tangible connection from your crown point up (or from the Sky down into your crown point), like being suspended by a string (sensation varies from cool menthol type sensation to electric activity). Usually I go by that as an indicator of when is a good time to practice, what place is good for practice, etc (You will see the sensation (strength and intensity of it) vary from place to place, time of day, what you have eaten, how you have been thinking etc)...

 

When this sensation (at the crown point) is strong, I feel a natural inclination to practice. And usually the practice at that time is stronger, deeper and more satisfying. The Chi sensitivity is also stronger. With time you can feel this suspension point at will (and sometimes it stays all the time with you)...

 

Hope this helps...

[Brian]

...

[Birch]

"When I play....is deeply satisfying."

 

My omission;-)

 

Practice IS play

[dwai]

I really like this post! Thank you.

 

I find that, when standing in wuji and when my alignment, posture and state of mind are healthy (which is becoming more and more frequent), that suspension point seems to cool (although that's not a very good description) and is followed by a sensation of expansion in the vertebrae in my neck and a tingling down my arms (almost the same as the feeling I get if my arm is falling asleep due to pressure on artery along the inside of the upper arm) and my hands (and sometimes feet) become warm.

 

When I play my tai chi form after maintaining that condition for a while, I find that the sensations continue (if I keep my calmness) and my form is deeply satisfying.

 

Any insights from those more knowledgable in such matters than I? (That's almost everyone on the forum, I think...)

 

 

The palms I think are the first part of one's anatomy that one can feel Chi...and with time it expands to the arms and then part by part through out one's body. As one moves through the forms, various parts of the body will have better flow than others (or at least a different type of sensation)...Yang is warm, energetically expansive, light and Yin is cool, energetically condense and heavy. Each form practiced will have different substantial and insubstantial parts (varies from form to form)...also one will feel a sensation in the dan tiens ( I generally tend to feel the condensed Yin type chi in the lower dan tien and upper dan tien while a warm, Yang type expanding sensation in the middle dan tien)...

 

 

Feet becoming warm is a good sign, meaning that the chi is flowing down to the bubbling wells...I find that if I sink before starting the forms, the bubbling wells become very heavy and the feet warm....almost like I have roots coming out of the bubbling wells...

 

 

[Starjumper]

SereneBlue, you should not practice for the goal of feeling something or your practice will never be achieved. Practice with the proper principles in mind and you'll grow from there.

 

For example, in my wuji qigong practice I stand and keep my mind at my dantian (or wuji point). If I take my mind away from those principles and look to have feeling everything will be off and I will never be successful. In my years, sometimes I have a feeling, sometimes I don't. Don't look for the feeling or you will lose everything.

 

Oh, and I liked your former avatar much, much better.

 

I disagree with everything you say here except for your last sentence. I do what I consider to be a high power chi kung and it is entirely based on feeling the energy. Most students feel a lot of energy right from the beginning and it just keeps getting stronger after that.

 

Ya Mu, does your Gift of the Tao dvd show some of these other types of non-food/non-air Chi one can cultivate? If not where can one find a "how-to" of some exercises to practice them? Also...can you "explain the different types of chi" simply?

 

I'm still at the stage of just trying to feel chi at all - forget about being advanced enough to actually distinguish different types. My ability to feel chi has regressed in the past few months due (I suspect) to some medications I've been taking. One month I feel chi - then the day after beginning meds - BAM - unable to feel chi at all (talk about being depressed and distressed!).

 

I'm trying like hell to get back to the point of being able to feel something, anything at all. The thing I don't know is that supposedly removal of blocks (as I understand it) also means not feeling any chi either. If one has blocks one will feel the chi strongly. Dissolved blocks = not feeling chi. I think. Or perhaps not. I'm not sure about that. I don't know what to think of my current situation.

 

When chi is going through blockages it feels rougher, but once blockages are dissolved chi can still be felt. It is a finer and subtler vibration but it can become strong with time, and this is the type of energy that feels more blissful. I understand you are a student of KAP, and it appears to be wimpy chi kung, perhaps you are only a long distance student of Santiago's but someone just posted and then deleted the long list of his TP, I mean certificates, and my reaction to someone so young having so many 'certificates' in unrelated systems was ... um ...

 

In any case, I sincerely recommend that you stop doing the MCO before you hurt yourself.

[Baguakid]

I disagree with everything you say here except for your last sentence. I do what I consider to be a high power chi kung and it is entirely based on feeling the energy. Most students feel a lot of energy right from the beginning and it just keeps getting stronger after that.

 

 

 

Care to expand on your "high power chi kung"?

 

I did attend a class with someone who did use feeling with beginners but that was more so to get them to relax than anything else (feel your pulse kinda thing). I've been around many "masters" and on a scale, his was one of the lowest in terms of feeling his energy. Not to say yours is the same, just saying.

 

I agree with you if SB is doing MCO practices as a beginning practice.

[Brian]

...