Qi is NOT Energy

[Taomeow]

Sorry, I have no idea what Taomeao is trying to say here. Call me stupid or call me an egg (white on the outside yellow on the inside) but it doesn't make any sense to me what-so-ever.

 

The concepts of Qi are outlined all over the place and for me don't see any reason to westernize it.

 

Example:

http://www.yinyangho...nese/what_is_qi

 

Sorry to go against the grain. Now back to my practice....

 

Best,

 

No one is stupid and no one is wrong, it's just the next bit of taoist study after the one you posted a link to. Your link outlines various aspects of postnatal qi, a Houtian (Later Heaven) phenomenon. Fine. Whereas I, in response to Little1's query, was talking about yuan qi -- that's prenatal qi, a Xiantian (Earlier Heaven) phenomenon. That's what we've been discussing ever since Little1's post of today. You are welcome to join in the discussion, but you would have to first find out what it's about. So now you have.

 

Oh, and it's not about "westernizing" it. It's about understanding it with the mind you have, which is either a Western mind or a Westernized Chinese mind, invariably, these days.

 

Have a nice practice!

[Taomeow]

Greetings..

 

I have an honest curiosity.. does anyone besides me wonder what it would be like to simply translate everything into english, and to study that with an open and sincere western perspective.. what i'm getting at is Taomeow's delightful and very insightful interpretation, as follows:

 

Nicely done, and easy for the western mind's understanding.. sometimes, it seems like there is a 'secret society' mentality with those that study Eastern practices in depth.. understandings that can change the course of western civilization are contained within the Taoist and other Asian philosophies, but.. often they are guarded and cryptically presented.. anyway, thanks, Taomeow..

 

Be well..

And thank you, TzuJanLi.

 

I worked as a technical translator for a bunch of years, it's a habit of mine to "translate." I don't believe in inaccessibility of any texts, only in poor translations. I occasionally edit other people's translations (Russian/English or vice versa) to this day, and I know that all translations are invariably poor unless the translator lives what the author is talking about... no way around it. So... no secret societies at work (well, these too, but that's a separate subject, and they are as often Chinese as Western and Zulu -- I've studied the secret societies of Haiti for a change of pace, and man, they are everywhere and every-when... but don't let me digress) -- in this particular case, we're merely dealing with the fallout of learning stuff from translators who are, in the best case scenario, scholars of taoism but who are not themselves taoists. I don't read those anymore... if I'm going to learn about taoism, I'm going to learn from taoists... if you're going to learn to drive a car, better make sure you're learning from a driver.

[TzuJanLi]

Greetings..

 

The concepts of Qi are outlined all over the place and for me don't see any reason to westernize it.

I think you spent some time in China, right Bill? what about those that can't do that.. i'm interested in the wisdom and the message.. not the petty issues about culture, and cute egg metaphors.. i see a civilization in the early stages of decline, hopeful that people with the wisdoms to help are not so self-consumed with their own inflated self images, that they might actually demonstrate the potential.. and it is not limited to a narrow 'yellow brick road'..

 

Be well..

[TzuJanLi]

And thank you, TzuJanLi.

 

I worked as a technical translator for a bunch of years, it's a habit of mine to "translate." I don't believe in inaccessibility of any texts, only in poor translations. I occasionally edit other people's translations (Russian/English or vice versa) to this day, and I know that all translations are invariably poor unless the translator lives what the author is talking about... no way around it. So... no secret societies at work (well, these too, but that's a separate subject, and they are as often Chinese as Western and Zulu -- I've studied the secret societies of Haiti for a change of pace, and man, they are everywhere and every-when... but don't let me digress) -- in this particular case, we're merely dealing with the fallout of learning stuff from translators who are, in the best case scenario, scholars of taoism but who are not themselves taoists. I don't read those anymore... if I'm going to learn about taoism, I'm going to learn from taoists... if you're going to learn to drive a car, better make sure you're learning from a driver.

Hi Taomeow: i have bumbled through insipidly poor translations, compared multiple translations of the same texts (even worse), and have myself 'lived it' a bit.. my appreciation stands in spite of Bill's remarks.. Bill is a devout seeker, a well-studied practitioner, and it seems, a bit of an elitist.. but, we each have a path to make, and i can think of far worse paths to find..

 

Be well..

[Baguakid]

Hi Taomeow: i have bumbled through insipidly poor translations, compared multiple translations of the same texts (even worse), and have myself 'lived it' a bit.. my appreciation stands in spite of Bill's remarks.. Bill is a devout seeker, a well-studied practitioner, and it seems, a bit of an elitist.. but, we each have a path to make, and i can think of far worse paths to find..

 

Be well..

 

 

Whoah... Elitist? Well a heart felt Piss Off to you Bob!! LOL....

 

Anyway, I prefer "traditionalist" in both Martial arts and Qigong theory. If that makes me an Elitist then so be it. If Taiji doesn't have a Qi component then it's not Taiji and it's not Chinese. It's Shuai Jiao or BJJ or MMA or whatever. Anyway, I digress....

 

Let me say this, to date I have found no translations that were worth a crap to me anyway so don't feel bad Taomeao. I have a hugh I-Ching in my living room. It's providing lift/height for my reading lamp.

 

Let me ask this? Can Yuan Qi be affected? According to my link Yuan Qi (yes it's on there if you happen to look) is derived from original jing. Since original/prebirth jing comes from Mom and Pop then I ask again, can Yuan Qi be affected? If it can then I'm all ears. If not then what do we do with this discussion?

[Taomeow]

Whoah... Elitist? Well a heart felt Piss Off to you Bob!! LOL....

 

Anyway, I prefer "traditionalist" in both Martial arts and Qigong theory. If that makes me an Elitist then so be it. If Taiji doesn't have a Qi component then it's not Taiji and it's not Chinese. It's Shuai Jiao or BJJ or MMA or whatever. Anyway, I digress....

 

Let me say this, to date I have found no translations that were worth a crap to me anyway so don't feel bad Taomeao. I have a hugh I-Ching in my living room. It's providing lift/height for my reading lamp.

 

Let me ask this? Can Yuan Qi be affected? According to my link Yuan Qi (yes it's on there if you happen to look) is derived from original jing. Since original/prebirth jing comes from Mom and Pop then I ask again, can Yuan Qi be affected? If it can then I'm all ears. If not then what do we do with this discussion?

 

Ah, the anti-intellectual stance to deflect the horrible "elitist" injustice... the smart kid's defense against being ostracized as a "nerd" in junior high... how many folks never get over it. How many are afraid to know and are eager to embrace every paradigm that tells them there's something wrong with anyone using her brain... And, here's the punch line... how very un-taoist. Laoist, maybe. Though he was a scholar and an imperial librarian before he told everybody else (in a whole bunch of poor translations) that Ignorance is Bliss, just like Big Brother used to teach in 1984.

 

Anyway... who am I to blow against the wind?..

 

Yes, Yuan Qi can be affected. Alchemy is nothing but a know-how manual as to how to affect that.

 

Which is why it is useful to figure out what it is you're dealing with before affecting it or leaving it alone.

 

I have TCM Materia Medica, way huge, but it's not serving as a support for a lamp, it's serving as a support for internal alchemy with external. There's herbs that affect yuan qi too, although technically most of them are animal material rather than plant but they call this whole non-pharma stuff "herbs," for simplicity (or rather simpletonity... everyone is supposed to be a simpleton, right?.. in order to be doing something useful?..)

But online sources are full to the gills of "information" to the contrary. What can I do about it? Nothing. Who am I to blow against the wind?..

 

Oh, and just in case you might... don't ask me which "herbs" to use. I know which ones will affect MY yuan qi. I don't know which ones will affect yours. Figure it out if you decide to "affect" it.

[Baguakid]

Ah, the anti-intellectual stance to deflect the horrible "elitist" injustice... the smart kid's defense against being ostracized as a "nerd" in junior high... how many folks never get over it. How many are afraid to know and are eager to embrace every paradigm that tells them there's something wrong with anyone using her brain... And, here's the punch line... how very un-taoist. Laoist, maybe. Though he was a scholar and an imperial librarian before he told everybody else (in a whole bunch of poor translations) that Ignorance is Bliss, just like Big Brother used to teach in 1984.

 

 

You're far more intellectual than I as proved by your far superior articulation of the English language.

I'm just a dumb jeep riding Florida cracker.

 

 

Yes, Yuan Qi can be affected. Alchemy is nothing but a know-how manual as to how to affect that.

 

Which is why it is useful to figure out what it is you're dealing with before affecting it or leaving it alone.

 

I have TCM Materia Medica, way huge, but it's not serving as a support for a lamp, it's serving as a support for internal alchemy with external. There's herbs that affect yuan qi too, although technically most of them are animal material rather than plant but they call this whole non-pharma stuff "herbs," for simplicity (or rather simpletonity... everyone is supposed to be a simpleton, right?.. in order to be doing something useful?..)

But online sources are full to the gills of "information" to the contrary. What can I do about it? Nothing. Who am I to blow against the wind?..

 

Oh, and just in case you might... don't ask me which "herbs" to use. I know which ones will affect MY yuan qi. I don't know which ones will affect yours. Figure it out if you decide to "affect" it.

 

Yes, I have two materia medica at home, several TCM manuals which I studied many, many years ago and btw I found much more useful than the I-Ching. I've also had plenty of herbs, and I'm not interested in your forumulas.

 

Here's an article (like I said, it's all over the place) and Bob should like it as there's plenty of Western references in there. Actually I like it, pretty good and it reminded me of the question I should be asking.

 

Pre-heaven jing/essence.. Can THAT be affected is the real question.

 

http://www.yin-yangalkaline-acid.com/The%20Tonification%20of%20Pre-heaven%20Qi3.pdf

 

Hey, they have Yuan Qi formulas in there too. Whoot

 

Anyway Qigong is a higher source than herbs so I only practice qigong and meditation.

 

Peace...

[Baguakid]

Greetings..

 

 

I think you spent some time in China, right Bill? what about those that can't do that.. i'm interested in the wisdom and the message.. not the petty issues about culture, and cute egg metaphors.. i see a civilization in the early stages of decline, hopeful that people with the wisdoms to help are not so self-consumed with their own inflated self images, that they might actually demonstrate the potential.. and it is not limited to a narrow 'yellow brick road'..

 

Be well..

 

 

Bob, the only things that stand in the way of people going to the motherland is them themselves. I wanted to go for many, many years and finally I sold two cars and picked up and left and you know what? The biggest question I had was why I didn't do it sooner.

 

The Egg and Banana metaphors are commonly used in Chinese circles Bobby.

 

Anyway, I also see a decline in understanding out there and I don't know if you can tell in my writing but it frustrates me terribly. I'm seriously at the point of just dissolving back into society and telling the world to F.O. I see people with ailments which could easily be solved with some standing Wuji or other gongs but talking to such people is like talking to the refrigerator. I, in 20 years, have not found one person outside our very tight circle Bob that has grabbed what I've offered, for free no less. As Stuart Alve Olson's teacher Master, T.T. Liang wrote, "it's like throwing pearls before the swine" or something to that effect.

 

So, WTF? Piss off I say. I'll be moving out of "cracker-ville" soon and with fresh beginnings, I'll just keep to myself.

 

Yeah right. No, I enjoy frustration, I apparently live for it so long life to me.

 

At any rate, If Original Essence (preheaven Jing) can be affected then the 250 year old man has some meaning. Otherwise, it's just a story.

 

How's that for a rant?

[Mark Foote]

Qi 氣 = 米 + 气

 

Now the questions remain:

 

~ What, in the human being, is the "rice" or "uncooked seed"?

~ What is the process of "cooking" this seed?

~ If Qi is the "process" of awareness interfacing with physical being, what role does the breath have?

 

& also from Little1:

 

Lin Aiwei told me Qi is Mind.

There is another Chinese Qigong teacher that said 'Qi is a phenomenon that arises where Mind and Matter touch' or 'at the frontier between Body and Mind'

Winn also says Qi is Mind...

 

 

These two responses are wonderful to me, so why spoil a good mystery! No, we pile it on, pile it on-

 

regarding the first:

 

 

regarding the second:

 

how about xingyi, "shape-mind", isn't it? I understand that "sesshin" translates as "touch mind". The sense of location moves, when I can accept that I'm in motion out of the stretch of ligaments; this is the mind that touches. How does the cranial-sacral rhythm enter into the movement of breath?- in the long and short of inhalation and exhalation, that places the mind. Isis with the vertebrae at the nose of Nefertari. Zazen gets up and walks around, the windy element moves the body, the extension of the mind of compassion in the ten directions is the infinity of ether... qi is maybe intimately connected with the infinity of ether, not a definition, oh well!

[Taomeow]

 

Pre-heaven jing/essence.. Can THAT be affected is the real question.

 

Yuan qi and jing are different ways to view the same thing. Jing usually refers to its personal aspect and yuan qi, to its transpersonal aspect. But the distinction is not physical or spiritual, it's more like different labels for "acetaminophen" and "Tylenol" -- same substance, two different ways to present it, one "generic," another one proprietary. What is affected by "acetaminophen" is affected by "Tylenol" quite the same way. Ditto with yuan qi and jing.

[Baguakid]

Yuan qi and jing are different ways to view the same thing. Jing usually refers to its personal aspect and yuan qi, to its transpersonal aspect. But the distinction is not physical or spiritual, it's more like different labels for "acetaminophen" and "Tylenol" -- same substance, two different ways to present it, one "generic," another one proprietary. What is affected by "acetaminophen" is affected by "Tylenol" quite the same way. Ditto with yuan qi and jing.

 

Well, If I remember my TCM yada yada yada correctly, the human lifespan is controlled by a combination of things but most importantly, one's Preheaven Essence/Jing whatever stuff. So, if that can be affected then the lifespan can be increased significantly.

 

Thus the 250 year old man problem.

 

Still have not found that answer yet. It's late here but I'll respond in more detail tomorrow.

[TzuJanLi]

Greetings..

 

How's that for a rant?

Revealing, Bill.. Great expectations breed great disappointments..

 

I Live, i read what i can understand, and i try to understand more.. i train, religiously, sincerely.. i do my WuJi always one session, at least 20 minutes, up to 40 minutes (sometimes 50-60).. often (70% of the time) two sessions of WuJi.. 1-3 hours of training, Taiji, swords, staff, and pushing/sparring.. i do Dragon Gate QiGong, Chan Si Gong, wooden ball QiGong, and Taiji Symbol Training (Dr. Yang Jwing-Ming's transmission).. i'm not yellow inside, i'm human.. the term 'Elitist' is neither good nor bad, it can be interpreted any way you choose.. i am a friend of yours, like it or not, it's not your choice it's mine.. i don't care if you're my friend or not..

 

Taomeow's explanation of Yuan Qi, had little meaning as to the number reference, only slightly more meaning as Yuan Qi, but.. it was a brilliant explanation of the interconnectedness and inter-relatedness of confined actions (imagine greater parameters), and finally it puts the individuated consciousness in a dynamic relationship with its connectedness so as to manages its existence..

 

By the way.. having completely read 6 translations with three more for cross-referencing, i find the I-Ching to be a brilliant study on human nature and predictability..

[Taomeow]

Taomeow's explanation of Yuan Qi, had little meaning as to the number reference, only slightly more meaning as Yuan Qi, but.. it was a brilliant explanation of the interconnectedness and inter-relatedness of confined actions (imagine greater parameters), and finally it puts the individuated consciousness in a dynamic relationship with its connectedness so as to manages its existence..

 

I do appreciate the appreciation of the part you liked, you can't imagine how much it means to me when someone somewhere understands me sometimes...

 

...but you haven't mentioned Xuan Kong feng shui or Chinese astrology among your wonderful practices... so about the part that you assert had "little meaning" I think it would be considerably more fair if you said you didn't understand what I meant instead... You mentioned studying the I Ching, forget Xuan Kong, do you Ta Chuan in your I Ching studies?.. OK, forget that, do you know the Taiji Songs? Do you know the Song of Thirteen? What do you think those Thirteen are, chopped liver?.. or the kinds of qi idiosyncratic to taijiquan? No sir... they are the eight of bagua interacting with the five of wuxing... So then how about the Ten Stems and Twelve Branches? What do you think they are? What about the Nine Flying Stars -- what do you think they are? Ever looked at Hetu and Luoshu? OK, forget Hetu and Luoshu. What do I do to get you to believe me? I can do the Circular I Ching from memory, like an idiot savant, but not because I'm either, merely because that was my meditation focus for years. I would be so screwed if I didn't know my number after this.

[宁]

This is something I'm also exploring.

From one angle, the Trigrams can correspond to the channels of the body and their associated qi dynamics:

heaven: Du

earth: Ren

lake: taiyang

fire: shaoyang

wind: yangming

mountain: taiyin

water: shaoyin

thunder: jueyin

 

That was a mind opener. Just remembered that the embodyment of the Eight Forces into the Human Info-energetical system consists of the Eight Extraordinary Vessels.

As far as my limited knowledge goes, Chinese metaphysics may very well be the means of expanding one's own practice, because it functions like a chart that describes the complementary forces and the routes... pretty neat way of expanding your energy and awareness... If this leads to happiness, I think it's a good practice.

 

Which remids me...

@Taomeow, I have to make a graduation paper for my Chinese bachelor's degree. The options aren't very rigid... I have to pick one of these three:

- Xi You Ji aka Journey to the West (there are two stories with the same title in Chinese, one reffering to the legend of the Monkey King, and the other, to the journey of Qiu Changchun, head founder of the Complete Reality Branch of Dao. The linking factor, would be, in my project, the attraction that Chinese people have for the West... Jeez, it doesn't make any sense, does it? I might as well add West Side Story to it..)

- Ling Bao Bi Fa an analysis on an important daoist work, I have both the Chinese and the French version of it - I don't think my teachers would be that excited about a project on daoist mysticism thou)

- And, I Ching... I know it's a vast subject... I remember you reccomended 'The web that has no weaver' as an introduction to what it seems to you the most ballanced and appropriate interpretation on I Ching. I was hoping you could suggest other works maybe, or other p.o.v related to I Ching, perspectives new for a worthwhile paper...

Edited October 13, 2010 by Little1

[Baguakid]

Greetings..

 

 

Revealing, Bill.. Great expectations breed great disappointments..

 

I Live, i read what i can understand, and i try to understand more.. i train, religiously, sincerely.. i do my WuJi always one session, at least 20 minutes, up to 40 minutes (sometimes 50-60).. often (70% of the time) two sessions of WuJi.. 1-3 hours of training, Taiji, swords, staff, and pushing/sparring.. i do Dragon Gate QiGong, Chan Si Gong, wooden ball QiGong, and Taiji Symbol Training (Dr. Yang Jwing-Ming's transmission).. i'm not yellow inside, i'm human.. the term 'Elitist' is neither good nor bad, it can be interpreted any way you choose.. i am a friend of yours, like it or not, it's not your choice it's mine.. i don't care if you're my friend or not..

 

Taomeow's explanation of Yuan Qi, had little meaning as to the number reference, only slightly more meaning as Yuan Qi, but.. it was a brilliant explanation of the interconnectedness and inter-relatedness of confined actions (imagine greater parameters), and finally it puts the individuated consciousness in a dynamic relationship with its connectedness so as to manages its existence..

 

By the way.. having completely read 6 translations with three more for cross-referencing, i find the I-Ching to be a brilliant study on human nature and predictability..

 

Did you predict my rant Bob? I could have used that prediction stuff yesterday. I spent time leveling a box truck box in my backyard and after going inside the little door I forgot to duck as I made my way out. I now look like cyclops.

 

We both have a common friend who once said, I don't want to read anymore, I want to experience. Right or wrong I have been in agreement with that statement for a long time now. Probably why I continue to have no idea what Taomeao's "translation" means since I have lost any scholorly background to connect the dots. Please don't expect me to "Pai MaPi" if I don't agree. Who knows, next year or next week I may have a sudden awaking which will cause me to find great interest in reading those texts. Time will tell.

 

I've lost any interest in Taiji and Gong fu and even my Bagua is sitting alone in the corner these days. I think it's the current state of CMA today that's causing me to lose interest. The MMA BJJ EPH direction of it all and the street punk cockyness to go with it (not directed at you Bob).

 

Anywho, Don't get bent out of shape from these postings. I'm certainly not. We are moving out west. You are always welcome to come out, meetup and have a cup of tea. And should you ever need help in China in any way don't be shy.

 

Peace !!

Edited October 13, 2010 by Baguakid

[TzuJanLi]

Greetings..

I do appreciate the appreciation of the part you liked, you can't imagine how much it means to me when someone somewhere understands me sometimes...

 

...but you haven't mentioned Xuan Kong feng shui or Chinese astrology among your wonderful practices... so about the part that you assert had "little meaning" I think it would be considerably more fair if you said you didn't understand what I meant instead...

I didn't understand what you meant, i had hoped that was clear.. my response was to Bill, in an effort to remind him of the various journeys we all make.. your scholarly understanding of Chinese culture, particularly Taoist intricacies, is impressive.. but, i, like Bill, am far more concerned with direct experience.. would you really be "screwed if you didn't know your number"? i don't know my number AND i'm not screwed.. and, please don't tell me i just don't 'know' i'm screwed.. i hear that alot, and frankly, there's no evidence to support it.. my focus is 'stillness of mind', and so when i read what was appreciated, it 'smoothed some ripples at the far end of my 'pond'.. for which i am grateful..

 

Have you ever wondered about the origins of Taoism, before it was codified into 'Cannons' and such? While the concept of Tao was already common, there were simple, plain, free spirited folks, whith a sincere and genuine curiosity about their relationship with Life, they were viewed as being similar with the principles of Tao, or Taoists.. there were no Cannons, no academia.. it seems that the academic 'Taoists' keep dividing and categorizing that which can't be divided or described.. so, when i get overwhelmed by such bravado i retreat to my 'quiet and still pond' grateful for the newly found stillness, and cautious of ill-winds creating more ripples..

 

Be well..

[Brian]

...

[Taomeow]

Greetings..

I didn't understand what you meant, i had hoped that was clear.. my response was to Bill, in an effort to remind him of the various journeys we all make.. your scholarly understanding of Chinese culture, particularly Taoist intricacies, is impressive.. but, i, like Bill, am far more concerned with direct experience.. would you really be "screwed if you didn't know your number"? i don't know my number AND i'm not screwed.. and, please don't tell me i just don't 'know' i'm screwed.. i hear that alot, and frankly, there's no evidence to support it.. my focus is 'stillness of mind', and so when i read what was appreciated, it 'smoothed some ripples at the far end of my 'pond'.. for which i am grateful..

 

Have you ever wondered about the origins of Taoism, before it was codified into 'Cannons' and such? While the concept of Tao was already common, there were simple, plain, free spirited folks, whith a sincere and genuine curiosity about their relationship with Life, they were viewed as being similar with the principles of Tao, or Taoists.. there were no Cannons, no academia.. it seems that the academic 'Taoists' keep dividing and categorizing that which can't be divided or described.. so, when i get overwhelmed by such bravado i retreat to my 'quiet and still pond' grateful for the newly found stillness, and cautious of ill-winds creating more ripples..

 

Be well..

 

Apologies if I misunderstood what "little meaning" meant in your context. Meanings are so elusive in the virtual world!

 

Yes, I've wondered about the origin of taoism (by the way, you can do that via insight, research, contemplation, and integration -- but not via direct experience, alas), and have come to the conclusion that when the world was simple (no such thing in the past 200,000 years or we wouldn't drive the mammoth and the neanderthal to extinction), no taoism was necessary. To pretend that what worked 250,000 years ago will still work today is exactly what the founders of taoism didn't do.

 

I found stilling-the-mind practices very early and with no schooling, and did that for years. This, however, didn't do anything when the proverbial hit the fan. Apparently the capacity of a modern mind for stillness is commensurate with the magnitude of the incoming weather. That it can still the ripples is no indication that it will be as competent at stilling a tsunami. I have come to the conclusion that the reason for this is the glaring lack of stillness of the larger mind at work, humanity's mind. We are all connected. You can only still a part of a compartmentalized mind these days. (I don't mean you personally, I mean a generic "you".) But I'm after integration... I'm after unification of my mind... and on that road I'm finding the need for all kinds of tools (yes, I do use taoist tools, mostly) -- stillness and movement, experience and contemplation, "leaving the world" and "coming into the world," opening and closing, the simple and the complex... pretty much like my teachers. I have taoist teachers who are simple and complex, and generally I'm finding them very smart regardless of their level of academic learning (modest in some, encyclopedic in others). Very, very smart every possible way, including emotional intelligence, somatosensory intelligence (being able to express comlpex concepts with a gesture!) and overall-life intelligence (when one's life doesn't look "dumb" or "dull" from the outside nor is perceived as such from the inside). I just try to emulate as much as I can of the ways of my contemporary teachers, because if I were to emulate some hypothetical simple folks from the time and lifestyles I, in my current life, can only recreate on the street in my mind, I'd be nurturing a delusion, which is probably the single most widespread practice out there, far as I'm concerned.

 

Oh, and I didn't mean you would be screwed if you didn't know your number, I meant just what I said -- I, me, would be. I have a very challenging Four Pillars wuxing layout, I have to approach qi consciously or I'll be screwed... Not the case with everybody. Some people can afford to not know and still be OK, but I can't.

 

Nice talking to you, by the way, I really like your style of expression.

[noelle]

.

 

 

Edited October 14, 2010 by noelle

[Baguakid]

Just FYI -- Mat 7:6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.

 

Thanks for that. Didn't know the source just remembered from where I got it.

[Baguakid]

 

Yes, I've wondered about the origin of taoism (by the way, you can do that via insight, research, contemplation, and integration -- but not via direct experience, alas), and have come to the conclusion that when the world was simple (no such thing in the past 200,000 years or we wouldn't drive the mammoth and the neanderthal to extinction), no taoism was necessary. To pretend that what worked 250,000 years ago will still work today is exactly what the founders of taoism didn't do.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-11000635

 

Woolly mammoths died out because of dwindling grasslands - rather than being hunted to extinction by humans, according to a Durham University study.

 

After the coldest phase of the last ice age 21,000 years ago, the research revealed, there was a dramatic decline in pasture on which the mammoths fed.

 

The woolly mammoth was once commonplace across many parts of Europe.

 

It retreated to northern Siberia about 14,000 years ago, where it finally died out approximately 4,000 years ago.

 

The reasons for its extinction are unclear and have been a matter of heated scientific debate.

 

Some scientists have argued that it was principally the result of climate change while others say that it was driven by pressures of a growing human population, or even a cataclysmic meteor strike.

 

Now, according to Professor Brian Huntley of Durham University, that debate has been settled.

 

"What our results have suggested is that the changing climate, through the effect it had on vegetation, was the key thing that caused the reduction in the population and ultimate extinction of mammoths and many other large herbivores," he said.

[Taomeow]

http://www.bbc.co.uk...onment-11000635

 

Woolly mammoths died out because of dwindling grasslands - rather than being hunted to extinction by humans, according to a Durham University study.

 

After the coldest phase of the last ice age 21,000 years ago, the research revealed, there was a dramatic decline in pasture on which the mammoths fed.

 

The woolly mammoth was once commonplace across many parts of Europe.

 

It retreated to northern Siberia about 14,000 years ago, where it finally died out approximately 4,000 years ago.

 

The reasons for its extinction are unclear and have been a matter of heated scientific debate.

 

Some scientists have argued that it was principally the result of climate change while others say that it was driven by pressures of a growing human population, or even a cataclysmic meteor strike.

 

Now, according to Professor Brian Huntley of Durham University, that debate has been settled.

 

"What our results have suggested is that the changing climate, through the effect it had on vegetation, was the key thing that caused the reduction in the population and ultimate extinction of mammoths and many other large herbivores," he said.

 

Sorry kid, I've no use for Rockefeller-funded science.

[Baguakid]

[Baguakid]

Sorry kid, I've no use for Rockefeller-funded science.

 

 

Cool. When you and Doc Brown get done with the time machine tell him to come by my house. I'd like to go for a ride myself.

[Taomeow]

That was a mind opener. Just remembered that the embodyment of the Eight Forces into the Human Info-energetical system consists of the Eight Extraordinary Vessels.

As far as my limited knowledge goes, Chinese metaphysics may very well be the means of expanding one's own practice, because it functions like a chart that describes the complementary forces and the routes... pretty neat way of expanding your energy and awareness... If this leads to happiness, I think it's a good practice.

 

Which remids me...

@Taomeow, I have to make a graduation paper for my Chinese bachelor's degree. The options aren't very rigid... I have to pick one of these three:

- Xi You Ji aka Journey to the West (there are two stories with the same title in Chinese, one reffering to the legend of the Monkey King, and the other, to the journey of Qiu Changchun, head founder of the Complete Reality Branch of Dao. The linking factor, would be, in my project, the attraction that Chinese people have for the West... Jeez, it doesn't make any sense, does it? I might as well add West Side Story to it..)

- Ling Bao Bi Fa an analysis on an important daoist work, I have both the Chinese and the French version of it - I don't think my teachers would be that excited about a project on daoist mysticism thou)

- And, I Ching... I know it's a vast subject... I remember you reccomended 'The web that has no weaver' as an introduction to what it seems to you the most ballanced and appropriate interpretation on I Ching. I was hoping you could suggest other works maybe, or other p.o.v related to I Ching, perspectives new for a worthwhile paper...

 

Nice grad papers to choose from! Mine, many moons ago, were on the stylistic usage of deformation of idioms in English and the like... I think I still do that.

 

Web/No Weaver was my recommendation for the intro to TCM, not the I Ching. I think Terrence McKenna's "Lanscapes of Time" would be a good one for the I Ching. And of course Sabbadini/Ritsema (The Eranos I Ching).

 

West, to a Chinese contemporary of Qui Chanchun's, meant "India." I think it would be interesting to explore compass attractions/repulsions within Chinese culture -- all the South-North polarities ("rice eaters" vs "noodle eaters") and all the East-West ebb and flow... but that grad paper would probably take a millennium to complete.

 

"Monkey" would be the easy way out I guess.

 

Lingbao Bifa I only know in oral transmission, so I don't even know if I'm missing anything that can be found in the book. I have held the Chinese version in my hands but I won't be ready to read it in a while... and my French is practically nonexistent. If you can do a translation instead of a grad paper?..