Spring forest for martial arts?

[enouch]

Hi, can the energy [chi] from spring forest qi gung be used for martial arts applications? I'm guessing yes since energy is useful for a multitude of purposes.Yet many systems speak of martial chi, Drew, was this question ever raised in your intimate dealings with Chunny since he knows tai-chi?

[voidisyinyang]

Well Chunyi Lin did TEACH Tai-chi when he first arrived in the U.S. but his specialty is qigong. Tai-chi focuses on electromagnetic or chi energy while qigong masters focus on shen or laser-holographic energy. The shen transmission is very rare. Chunyi Lin was taught by Master Yao, a Buddhist Shaolin monk, who would light things on fire with his eyes as one of his demonstrations. For Chunyi Lin's Shaolin training it required two hours non-stop of standing with the legs bent and thighs straight -- every day for 3 months -- and arms outstretched in the thunder palms or sword fingers -- both Shaolin energy transmission techniques that Chunyi Lin teaches to use for healing. That was just the basic exercise. After the third eye fully opened then they could do long distance healing.

 

Chunyi Lin's assistant, qigong master Jim Nance, was a black belt kung fu master back in the 1960s or maybe early 1970s. At that time he would always win but would see his opponents in slow motion and when he delivered the blows -- he felt the pain just as much as his opponent. So even when he won he would then SOB after the fight. A Chinese master visited and told Jim Nance that he needed to now study the NEXT level -- INTERNAL martial arts but there were no teachers he knew of in the U.S.

 

So now Jim Nance and Chunyi Lin focus on long-distance third eye healing. The shen (laser holographic) third eye energy is done after you go into the "Emptiness" or formless pure consciousness. So once in the Emptiness the energy then does the healing on its own -- you receive a vision which tells you how to focus the energy. All you need is the name, sex and age of the person to be healed -- distance does not matter.

 

The deeper you go into the emptiness the more you experience your interconnection with the people around you. So physical fighting is based on emotional or electrochemical imbalances -- some one is angry, etc. A qigong master can do like qigong master Effie Chow says she can do -- just redirect someone else's energy and ADD it to their own body. So even though Effie Chow is a little women she said there's no problem if a big fighter tried to attack her. But she focuses on doing healing.

 

The spiritual "struggles" are actually more powerful but also more subtle. We are totally unaware of the spirit world and for most qigong practitioners they "fall back into worldliness" before true Emptiness (Nirvikalpa Samadhi) is achieved.

 

Chunyi Lin will read your past lives and your karma but rarely does he share this information unless it will help a person who needs healing. At the level of shen (holographic laser) energy it's most important to make sure that the spirits do not get angry. So when the third eye is fully open even the conceptual thoughts you have carry considerable physical impact due to the intense electromagnetic energy coupled with your thoughts.

 

Hi, can the energy [chi] from spring forest qi gung be used for martial arts applications? I'm guessing yes since energy is useful for a multitude of purposes.Yet many systems speak of martial chi, Drew, was this question ever raised in your intimate dealings with Chunny since he knows tai-chi?

[enouch]

Well Chunyi Lin did TEACH Tai-chi when he first arrived in the U.S. but his specialty is qigong. Tai-chi focuses on electromagnetic or chi energy while qigong masters focus on shen or laser-holographic energy. The shen transmission is very rare. Chunyi Lin was taught by Master Yao, a Buddhist Shaolin monk, who would light things on fire with his eyes as one of his demonstrations. For Chunyi Lin's Shaolin training it required two hours non-stop of standing with the legs bent and thighs straight -- every day for 3 months -- and arms outstretched in the thunder palms or sword fingers -- both Shaolin energy transmission techniques that Chunyi Lin teaches to use for healing. That was just the basic exercise. After the third eye fully opened then they could do long distance healing.

 

Chunyi Lin's assistant, qigong master Jim Nance, was a black belt kung fu master back in the 1960s or maybe early 1970s. At that time he would always win but would see his opponents in slow motion and when he delivered the blows -- he felt the pain just as much as his opponent. So even when he won he would then SOB after the fight. A Chinese master visited and told Jim Nance that he needed to now study the NEXT level -- INTERNAL martial arts but there were no teachers he knew of in the U.S.

 

So now Jim Nance and Chunyi Lin focus on long-distance third eye healing. The shen (laser holographic) third eye energy is done after you go into the "Emptiness" or formless pure consciousness. So once in the Emptiness the energy then does the healing on its own -- you receive a vision which tells you how to focus the energy. All you need is the name, sex and age of the person to be healed -- distance does not matter.

 

The deeper you go into the emptiness the more you experience your interconnection with the people around you. So physical fighting is based on emotional or electrochemical imbalances -- some one is angry, etc. A qigong master can do like qigong master Effie Chow says she can do -- just redirect someone else's energy and ADD it to their own body. So even though Effie Chow is a little women she said there's no problem if a big fighter tried to attack her. But she focuses on doing healing.

 

The spiritual "struggles" are actually more powerful but also more subtle. We are totally unaware of the spirit world and for most qigong practitioners they "fall back into worldliness" before true Emptiness (Nirvikalpa Samadhi) is achieved.

 

Chunyi Lin will read your past lives and your karma but rarely does he share this information unless it will help a person who needs healing. At the level of shen (holographic laser) energy it's most important to make sure that the spirits do not get angry. So when the third eye is fully open even the conceptual thoughts you have carry considerable physical impact due to the intense electromagnetic energy coupled with your thoughts.

 

 

 

 

 

'

 

Kind of hard too discern what you mean but I guess the answer is yes. It is interesting what you write about Effie Chow, reminds me of a post from MJJ Becker on the dangers[unique nature] of mo pai neigung and how the qi goes directly too the heart. He considered it only fit for mountain dwelling hermits since it's so dangerous.Both Sean Denty and Becker arrived [totally different paths]at the conclusion spring forest will get you futher than mo pai,or Denty called the mo pai technique very mechanical and hard to progress.

 

I guess when it comes to applications of chi it all comes down to intent.

[voidisyinyang]

Well Chunyi Lin was first healed by Yan Xin and later Chunyi Lin studied with the master of Yan Xin -- Yan Xin's teacher.

 

Yan Xin says that "intention" is bidirectional. For example Yan Xin was in a car and the car died. So Yan Xin redirected energy from an overhead power line down to the car. The car then started smoking. Yan Xin had redirected too much energy. So then he reversed his intention to lessen the amount of energy.

 

This is based on the "level of emptiness" which is to say that emptiness is the time-reversal of energy as spatial mass. So if you have good intentions there can still be accidents yet the results can be reversed since the natural energy relies on harmonic resonance to get its power.

 

In fact the energy is always transforming on its own but by focusing on the source of the energy as this natural harmonic resonance or what's call pure consciousness or "the emptiness" then a new level of energy can be realized as well.

 

This is a paradox -- the deeper level of power relies on the deeper level of emptiness which means less of the individual actually identifying with the power itself.

 

The model to understand this is music -- if we really listen to music and get into it then we forget we are listening to the music -- and in actually no one is listening -- the music is listening to us. Logically we can infer the same conclusion by considering the source of our I-thought.

 

All thoughts are based on the I-thought. So when we say "lets DO this" -- the question is "who" is doing it? Logically the answer can be INFERRED -- not through words -- but by listening to the source of the I-thought.

 

So at first you can repeat I-I-I until the "I" is the only thought you think and then the I-thought builds up to energy in the brain. Then you LISTEN to the source of the I-thought. This process then creates further energy -- creating the shen or laser-holographic spirit light in the brain.

 

http://www.facebook.com/SpringForestQigong

 

Chunyi Lin emphasizes in his lastest blog post that the brain should go down into the heart -- the heart is actually the source of the soul and the ego.

 

As he states this transforms the over-excitement of the heart into a more peaceful serenity -- a deeper joy.

 

 

 

'

 

Kind of hard too discern what you mean but I guess the answer is yes. It is interesting what you write about Effie Chow, reminds me of a post from MJJ Becker on the dangers[unique nature] of mo pai neigung and how the qi goes directly too the heart. He considered it only fit for mountain dwelling hermits since it's so dangerous.Both Sean Denty and Becker arrived [totally different paths]at the conclusion spring forest will get you futher than mo pai,or Denty called the mo pai technique very mechanical and hard to progress.

 

I guess when it comes to applications of chi it all comes down to intent.

[bindo]

I like this post by Chunyi Lin

 

Chunyi Lin - Hello my dear friends! I saw a photograph of a man with a cake on his 100 year birthday. He had a big smile while lighting his candles with a cigarette! This made me laugh! The message is: if you want to live a long life - be happy.

[gendao]

Kind of hard too discern what you mean but I guess the answer is yes. It is interesting what you write about Effie Chow, reminds me of a post from MJJ Becker on the dangers[unique nature] of mo pai neigung and how the qi goes directly too the heart. He considered it only fit for mountain dwelling hermits since it's so dangerous.Both Sean Denty and Becker arrived [totally different paths]at the conclusion spring forest will get you futher than mo pai,or Denty called the mo pai technique very mechanical and hard to progress.

Interesting, so how & why does Mopai channel qi directly to the heart? What exactly are the benefits and risks of this?

 

Also, where did mjjbecker & seandenty say that SFQ will get you further than Mopai?

[enouch]

Interesting, so how & why does Mopai channel qi directly to the heart? What exactly are the benefits and risks of this?

 

Also, where did mjjbecker & seandenty say that SFQ will get you further than Mopai?

 

 

 

 

 

Becker, has deleted a lot of his posts but one place to look would be in his'' right then'' thread.Also he mentioned the qi was dangerous and goes to heart of whoever you are attacking,sometimes getting out of control.In the first thread, he mentioned he got further[or more out of] practicing spring forest than mo pai''Of course spring forest is about helping others not becoming master of the universe'' Sean Denty called the technique mechanical in a shaolin wahnam forum post before being banned.''It's like going to a track coach and being told to run really fast and then come back in a year without any real coaching'' He went on to write other things as well, very interesting, people should go through all the posts from those with first hand knowledge[experience] and discern insights.As I've written before I don't think I've ever caught Denty in a bold face lie [exaggeration perhaps] he always been willing too share his experiences.

 

Fascinating too imagine these people know each other either directly or indirectly.Mo pai student mentioned to[introduction lobby,tao bums] Drew, he'd met Denty a couple of times.Denty, studied with the author of Magus of Java as did Becker.I'm surprised no one has written a book entitled Western Disciples: In Search OF True Neigong.Each one detailing their experiences in various chapters, it would make a great read.As it stands now, you are forced to go hunting through all the threads on many forums back to 2004.

[voidisyinyang]

Edited December 23, 2009 by drewhempel

[enouch]

[voidisyinyang]

Thanks for telling me about Peng.

 

Still it's important to realize there's a big difference between feeling a "zap" or "electrical jolt" -- etc. AND the LASER-holographic transmission.

 

This is the fundamental point I'm communicating to you.

 

So when you get the laser-holographic transmission -- the shen or shakti -- it's NOT a "zap" but rather an intense heat like fire that burns yet at the same time creates light and bliss.

 

Again the martial arts focuses on the chi -- the electromagnetic energy -- while the cave meditation focuses on increasing the shen or laser-holographic energy.

 

Laser is synchronized photons which are hotter than the sun! The energy is quantum so works by frequency -- not amplitude -- you need a harmonization of the frequency to create the laser. This is why the energy is subtle yet very powerful.

 

Drew, Robert Peng also comes out of the shaolin tradition.It makes you wonder about the neigong of Damo, the patriarch of shaolin.Laurence Blair recently felt the electric chi of Peng and said it felt like Chang's.A lot of people put down shaolin as being to external [wei] yet they seem to have powerful techniques. Damo was the second individual Chang mentioned as having opened or perfected all 72,000 nadis-level 72.

[mjjbecker]

Becker, has deleted a lot of his posts but one place to look would be in his'' right then'' thread.Also he mentioned the qi was dangerous and goes to heart of whoever you are attacking,sometimes getting out of control.In the first thread, he mentioned he got further[or more out of] practicing spring forest than mo pai''Of course spring forest is about helping others not becoming master of the universe'' Sean Denty called the technique mechanical in a shaolin wahnam forum post before being banned.''It's like going to a track coach and being told to run really fast and then come back in a year without any real coaching'' He went on to write other things as well, very interesting, people should go through all the posts from those with first hand knowledge[experience] and discern insights.As I've written before I don't think I've ever caught Denty in a bold face lie [exaggeration perhaps] he always been willing too share his experiences.

 

Fascinating too imagine these people know each other either directly or indirectly.Mo pai student mentioned to[introduction lobby,tao bums] Drew, he'd met Denty a couple of times.Denty, studied with the author of Magus of Java as did Becker.I'm surprised no one has written a book entitled Western Disciples: In Search OF True Neigong.Each one detailing their experiences in various chapters, it would make a great read.As it stands now, you are forced to go hunting through all the threads on many forums back to 2004.

 

Please stop (mis)quoting me, or mentioning me, in any reference whatsoever to these matters. Feel free to follow whatever interests you have, but leave me out of it.

 

I have never practiced Spring Forest. I have the information, I have tried some exercises. It is good stuff. Trying something and practicing something are different things.

 

Spring Forest is not 'martial' qigong.

 

As for information, you're looking in all the wrong places. Go read Santiago, 'Ya Mu' and 'fiveelementtao's' posts. Forget about Drew's. He doesn't have the experience and certainly not the understanding. By saturation bombing the internet, he has become some sort of 'authority'. That in itself speaks of the perilous state of things in general.

 

Again the martial arts focuses on the chi -- the electromagnetic energy -- while the cave meditation focuses on increasing the shen or laser-holographic energy.

 

Drew, your experience is narrow, limited, and does not include taijiquan, internal martial arts, Mo Pai neigong or other schools of neigong. Your 'theory' is wrong. You are pontificating about matters you know little about. As is your habit, once an 'idea' appears in your head, you decide it is a 'fact', and post this 'fact' all over the place. The consequence is that you mislead others, who do not have the experience or understanding to know better. Spreading bullshit may benefit crops, but with people and mushrooms, it really does only end up leaving them in the dark.

 

Stick to what you 'know' from your personal experience, and leave out your 'theories' regarding things you know nothing about. That of course would limit your posting on the internet rather severely. Perhaps you could then use the time to get a job and stop poncing off the society you happily sit and criticise from your idle perch instead.

 

For those who wish to learn, have an open mind, and care to get information from people who know what they are talking about, look here:

 

http://www.chinafrominside.com/ma/xyxy/diguoyongBIS.html

 

It was me who first posted the bagua link on this forum (having first been showed it by a friend back in 2002). It is good to get information from the actual masters, rather than rely on harebrained piffle posted up on this and other forums.

 

Being a basic overview, the chart does not go into detail. Look at the 'training dantian' information. From there, make an effort to get some real experience, rather than just partake of the pointless chuntering seemingly so beloved of this place. No wonder most of the people who have something useful don't find it worth their while bothering anymore.

 

Is attaining a high level rare? Yes, of course. Very few reach the really high levels of anything in life. That applies equally to 'qigong masters' More have the title of master than the actual level. The idea-proclaimed by Drew-that internal martial artists are all operating on a 'lower level' is utter crap, based on limited experience and a narrow, closed focus. Pay attention Drew, this is for you:

 

Those who really seek insight and understanding do not look for evidence to fit their pre-existing conclusions. Rather, they look at ALL the evidence OBJECTIVELY. Particularly when it does not fit their previous conclusions. Otherwise, we end up still believing in a flat earth, Aristotle's celestial spheres and torturing or burning heretics who inconveniently observe and report on the ACTUAL unvarnished FACTS. Yes Drew, I am saying you are as bad as the corporations and 'vested interests' in your methods of reporting.You are only interested in proclaiming your own viewpoint, your own biased opinions. I suggest you get off your lazy arse and learn what a qigong master is, and is not, by finishing the training you started. Stop spewing endless words about something you have only scratched the surface of. Stop endlessly going on and on and on and on about how you did the same old 'this and that'. Saying it once is enough. In the meantime, stop trying to finish the jigsaw by forcing the wrong pieces into the wrong holes.

 

Enouch, your drive is admirable. Get your head out of the books and away from the internet though. Find something that resonates with you and, to quote Nike, 'Just do it!' Forget about trying to be some 'master of the universe', as I stated before. Do what is right for you. Anyhow, non of this training is about 'power', but it seems that this fact is not grasped by many.

 

Doris Day sang it best, 'Que sera, sera, whatever will be, will be...'.

 

And yes, this message may also self destruct at some point in the future.

 

Merry Christmas

[voidisyinyang]

I totally agree with you mjjbecker.

 

I am a complete idiot.

 

http://devoid.blogs.heraldtribune.com/1045...reindeer-santa/

 

Actually Chunyi Lin says he doesn't have time to read much but he did read the book "The Holographic Universe" by Michael Talbot and Chunyi Lin said that Talbot's book is accurate. Talbot's research has recently been confirmed -- this lecture by Professor Stuart Hameroff on quantum consciousness references the biological "photon cascades" which when synchronized would create the laser-holographic or shen energy.

 

http://www.rhine.org/vlstuarthameroff.htm

 

Hameroff then connects the research back to the empirical reports of various meditators.

 

Please stop (mis)quoting me, or mentioning me, in any reference whatsoever to these matters. Feel free to follow whatever interests you have, but leave me out of it.

 

I have never practiced Spring Forest. I have the information, I have tried some exercises. It is good stuff. Trying something and practicing something are different things.

 

Spring Forest is not 'martial' qigong.

 

As for information, you're looking in all the wrong places. Go read Santiago, 'Ya Mu' and 'fiveelementtao's' posts. Forget about Drew's. He doesn't have the experience and certainly not the understanding. By saturation bombing the internet, he has become some sort of 'authority'. That in itself speaks of the perilous state of things in general.

Drew, your experience is narrow, limited, and does not include taijiquan, internal martial arts, Mo Pai neigong or other schools of neigong. Your 'theory' is wrong. You are pontificating about matters you know little about. As is your habit, once an 'idea' appears in your head, you decide it is a 'fact', and post this 'fact' all over the place. The consequence is that you mislead others, who do not have the experience or understanding to know better. Spreading bullshit may benefit crops, but with people and mushrooms, it really does only end up leaving them in the dark.

 

Stick to what you 'know' from your personal experience, and leave out your 'theories' regarding things you know nothing about. That of course would limit your posting on the internet rather severely. Perhaps you could then use the time to get a job and stop poncing off the society you happily sit and criticise from your idle perch instead.

 

For those who wish to learn, have an open mind, and care to get information from people who know what they are talking about, look here:

 

http://www.chinafrominside.com/ma/xyxy/diguoyongBIS.html

 

It was me who first posted the bagua link on this forum (having first been showed it by a friend back in 2002). It is good to get information from the actual masters, rather than rely on harebrained piffle posted up on this and other forums.

 

Being a basic overview, the chart does not go into detail. Look at the 'training dantian' information. From there, make an effort to get some real experience, rather than just partake of the pointless chuntering seemingly so beloved of this place. No wonder most of the people who have something useful don't find it worth their while bothering anymore.

 

Is attaining a high level rare? Yes, of course. Very few reach the really high levels of anything in life. That applies equally to 'qigong masters' More have the title of master than the actual level. The idea-proclaimed by Drew-that internal martial artists are all operating on a 'lower level' is utter crap, based on limited experience and a narrow, closed focus. Pay attention Drew, this is for you:

 

Those who really seek insight and understanding do not look for evidence to fit their pre-existing conclusions. Rather, they look at ALL the evidence OBJECTIVELY. Particularly when it does not fit their previous conclusions. Otherwise, we end up still believing in a flat earth, Aristotle's celestial spheres and torturing or burning heretics who inconveniently observe and report on the ACTUAL unvarnished FACTS. Yes Drew, I am saying you are as bad as the corporations and 'vested interests' in your methods of reporting.You are only interested in proclaiming your own viewpoint, your own biased opinions. I suggest you get off your lazy arse and learn what a qigong master is, and is not, by finishing the training you started. Stop spewing endless words about something you have only scratched the surface of. Stop endlessly going on and on and on and on about how you did the same old 'this and that'. Saying it once is enough. In the meantime, stop trying to finish the jigsaw by forcing the wrong pieces into the wrong holes.

 

Enouch, your drive is admirable. Get your head out of the books and away from the internet though. Find something that resonates with you and, to quote Nike, 'Just do it!' Forget about trying to be some 'master of the universe', as I stated before. Do what is right for you. Anyhow, non of this training is about 'power', but it seems that this fact is not grasped by many.

 

Doris Day sang it best, 'Que sera, sera, whatever will be, will be...'.

 

And yes, this message may also self destruct at some point in the future.

 

Merry Christmas

Edited December 25, 2009 by drewhempel

[Biff]

Please stop (mis)quoting me, or mentioning me, in any reference whatsoever to these matters. Feel free to follow whatever interests you have, but leave me out of it.

 

I have never practiced Spring Forest. I have the information, I have tried some exercises. It is good stuff. Trying something and practicing something are different things.

 

Spring Forest is not 'martial' qigong.

 

As for information, you're looking in all the wrong places. Go read Santiago, 'Ya Mu' and 'fiveelementtao's' posts. Forget about Drew's. He doesn't have the experience and certainly not the understanding. By saturation bombing the internet, he has become some sort of 'authority'. That in itself speaks of the perilous state of things in general.

Drew, your experience is narrow, limited, and does not include taijiquan, internal martial arts, Mo Pai neigong or other schools of neigong. Your 'theory' is wrong. You are pontificating about matters you know little about. As is your habit, once an 'idea' appears in your head, you decide it is a 'fact', and post this 'fact' all over the place. The consequence is that you mislead others, who do not have the experience or understanding to know better. Spreading bullshit may benefit crops, but with people and mushrooms, it really does only end up leaving them in the dark.

 

Stick to what you 'know' from your personal experience, and leave out your 'theories' regarding things you know nothing about. That of course would limit your posting on the internet rather severely. Perhaps you could then use the time to get a job and stop poncing off the society you happily sit and criticise from your idle perch instead.

 

For those who wish to learn, have an open mind, and care to get information from people who know what they are talking about, look here:

 

http://www.chinafrominside.com/ma/xyxy/diguoyongBIS.html

 

It was me who first posted the bagua link on this forum (having first been showed it by a friend back in 2002). It is good to get information from the actual masters, rather than rely on harebrained piffle posted up on this and other forums.

 

Being a basic overview, the chart does not go into detail. Look at the 'training dantian' information. From there, make an effort to get some real experience, rather than just partake of the pointless chuntering seemingly so beloved of this place. No wonder most of the people who have something useful don't find it worth their while bothering anymore.

 

Is attaining a high level rare? Yes, of course. Very few reach the really high levels of anything in life. That applies equally to 'qigong masters' More have the title of master than the actual level. The idea-proclaimed by Drew-that internal martial artists are all operating on a 'lower level' is utter crap, based on limited experience and a narrow, closed focus. Pay attention Drew, this is for you:

 

Those who really seek insight and understanding do not look for evidence to fit their pre-existing conclusions. Rather, they look at ALL the evidence OBJECTIVELY. Particularly when it does not fit their previous conclusions. Otherwise, we end up still believing in a flat earth, Aristotle's celestial spheres and torturing or burning heretics who inconveniently observe and report on the ACTUAL unvarnished FACTS. Yes Drew, I am saying you are as bad as the corporations and 'vested interests' in your methods of reporting.You are only interested in proclaiming your own viewpoint, your own biased opinions. I suggest you get off your lazy arse and learn what a qigong master is, and is not, by finishing the training you started. Stop spewing endless words about something you have only scratched the surface of. Stop endlessly going on and on and on and on about how you did the same old 'this and that'. Saying it once is enough. In the meantime, stop trying to finish the jigsaw by forcing the wrong pieces into the wrong holes.

 

Enouch, your drive is admirable. Get your head out of the books and away from the internet though. Find something that resonates with you and, to quote Nike, 'Just do it!' Forget about trying to be some 'master of the universe', as I stated before. Do what is right for you. Anyhow, non of this training is about 'power', but it seems that this fact is not grasped by many.

 

Doris Day sang it best, 'Que sera, sera, whatever will be, will be...'.

 

And yes, this message may also self destruct at some point in the future.

 

Merry Christmas

 

Harsh dude.

[voidisyinyang]

Biff have you tried out the small universe c.d. yet?

 

Harsh dude.

[mjjbecker]

Harsh dude.

 

Harsh? How putting people at risk of illness, possibly serious, by telling them outright lies?

 

http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?showto...12419&st=20

 

Chunyi Lin's secret is that the more we heal others the more we heal ourselves. Chunyi Lin also teaches that sickness is EXTRA ENERGY in your body which is not harmonized. So when we heal others by healing ourselves we take in other people's extra unharmonized energy blockages and then we harmonize that energy -- thereby clearing out our own blockages -- and then we transmit that now extra HARMONIZED energy into the person who had the blockage. This process is impersonal, working through the complementary opposite resonance of the electrochemical emotional energy turning into electromagnetic energy.

 

Chunyi Lin's words:

 

Spring Forest Level 3 manual, page 62:

 

"Use the blue flame to burn the cancer into smoke and see it shooting out of the body to the end of the universe".

 

Spring Forest Level 2 manual, page 37.

 

"And don't put this extra energy into your own body either, the message is not good for your health. Here I have a story to share with you.

 

...I met a person diagnosed with lung cancer...he had a sweet wife and lovely son...I felt so sympathetic with him. Then in my healing I said to the universe, "Let me take his cancer and set him free." Then I visualised his cancer moved to my body and he was healed. Eventually he passed away because the cancer spread very fast in the body. But that day, right after my healing, after I got home, I felt great chest pain in my lungs. It took me several weeks to get rid of the pain. I learned a big lesson."

 

Another source:

 

Chinese Qigong - Outgoing Qi Therapy, pages 18-19

 

"The disordered qi or pathogenic qi of the patient may invade into the body of the therapist and interfere with his own qi activities, causing discomfort, lassitude, soreness, distention, pain and numbness of certain parts. When this occurs, the therapist should timely drive the evil-qi out of his body and regulate his own qi activity to get it normal as soon as possible.

 

Patients suffering from cancer may affect the therapist's qi activity more seriously, so care should be taken not to carry out too much emission of qi, or not to emit qi to these kinds of patients at all."

 

Chunyi Lin on healing energy:

 

"Always call upon your (spiritual) master's energy to tap a tremendous resource. When your masters energy joins your energy, you will have much more energy to use.

 

While you are doing healing, visualize universal energy coming into your body through every cell and gathering in your lower dantian. In this way you replenish the energy you are sending out."

 

Taking a persons 'sick qi' or 'qi blockages'-use whatever term you like-is a dangerous thing to do for any healer. Chunyi Lin clearly states NOT to do this. Drew has his own theories, which of course he is entitled to. However, they are not the same as Chunyi Lin's, nor are they the same as other qigong healers. Take your pick.

 

FWIW, anyone looking for reliable information on what is, or is not, safe, would be well advised to follow the advice of Michael Lomax-Ya Mu-here. He knows what he is talking about, has a lineage of qigong second to non, and the recognised credentials-and experience-to back it up.

 

Very specifically this:

 

we take in other people's extra unharmonized energy blockages and then we harmonize that energy -- thereby clearing out our own blockages -- and then we transmit that now extra HARMONIZED energy into the person who had the blockage.

 

It is not only complete bullshit, but DANGEROUS. Drew, being the self proclaimed font of knowledge when it comes to Spring Forest and the words of Chunyi Lin SHOULD be fully aware of what Chunyi Lin actually teaches:

 

And don't put this extra energy into your own body either, the message is not good for your health.

 

However, it seems that Drew thinks he has this all worked out, and actually knows better than Chunyi Lin how Spring Forest actually works.

 

Actually you are correct -- in fact Chunyi Lin said this to our class once -- that it's best to focus on healing ourselves because healing others is dangerous. I found this a strange thing for him to say since he teaches healing others right away but sometimes he would say things to me while speaking indirectly to the class as a whole.

 

Delusional? Surely. This taking in of sick qi is NOT DONE BY MEDICAL QIGONG METHODS.

 

Drew's issue here though, is that he is so hooked on his 'o's at a d', that he has to justify HIS 'perversion' by claiming it is 'medicinal', and not just him getting his rocks off. He does it to get his jollies, end of story. He surely would not be doing it if it didn't.

 

Having qi will attract the attention of others. People, particularly women it seems, feel the energy (animals also). A responsible, compassionate, person does not take advantage of this. It does not matter if the other person is supposedly consenting-the relationship and the influence is not equal. It is an abuse of power.

 

The 'harsh' message now comes after numerous 'polite' comments, made by others as well as myself, which have just been ignored. Drew continues to give out incorrect, inaccurate 'advice'. No great issue if it is harmless-definately an issue if it is NOT harmless.

 

Drew claims to have figured out the meaning of Bushmen esoteric methods-from reading some books and listening to some music. Has he actually MET any Bushmen? Been to Africa and studied their culture directly? Seemingly not, but this seems to be no bar to Drew intimately understanding the depths of their spiritual practices...

 

Then we move onto Drew's 'theories' regarding the nature of qi. The 'tai-chi' generated qi of neigong is inferior to the 'shen lazer holographic' qi that, of course, is part of what Drew does. Conclusion reached how? Read some books, seen some video clips. How many neigong masters has Drew actually met? Non. How many methods of neigong has he actually practiced? Non. However, he's read Charles Luk's book, along with the writings of Nan Huai Chin, so that MUST mean Drew knows what he is talking about.

 

Drew does not have a clue what some of these masters can do, because he does not have the EXPERIENCE of it. He has not studied what they do, has not done the leg work to find out. He should therefore shut the fuck up about this. He has nothing like the understanding needed to make the claims he is.

 

Full lotus. Yes, an important part of many Chinese schools. The be all and end all of qigong? Not hardly. However, since Chunyli Lin told Drew, and Drew read it in a book, Drew knows it MUST be so. Not on the basis of actually having actually EXPERIENCED OTHER METHODS, in order to make an objective assessment. No. It fits with Drew's world view, therefore it must be so.

 

In conclusion. Do I think Drew is stupid? Not at all. Intelligent people can easily follow flawed thinking though. Edward de Bono has written about this and it would do anyone good to look at what de Bono has to say.

 

Drew digs up some interesting information from time to time. I've read some of what Nan Huai Chin has to say following Drew's mention of him, so I am grateful for that. Long may Drew continue to post.

 

However, as with anyone else posting opinions and conclusions on a public forum, those views are open to criticism by others. Advising people to do dangerous and stupid things and expressing incorrect, condescending viewpoints regarding things he knows nothing about, is not going to go unquestioned. I'd rather be polite and subtle, but if something needs to be bluntly stated, in order to make the point clearly, then so be it. I know you follow this method yourself from time to time Biff.

[voidisyinyang]

Biff had PM'd me stating he had ordered the Spring Forest Qigong small universe c.d. That same day Biff posted on the forum he thought I was maybe a paid marketer for Spring Forest Qigong! haha. That was maybe a month ago. Thanks to your post mjjbecker I think Biff can now rest in ease, knowing that I'm obviously not a paid marketer for Spring Forest Qigong!

 

What you have written about me being delusional in regards to Spring Forest Qigong is fine with me. Chunyi Lin even told me that I wasn't ready yet to have my third eye fully opened -- which would be the shen or laser-holographic healing level. It's what Gurdjieff calls a Number 5 person.

 

For these advanced levels of healing there needs to be a lot of direct supervision in the training. In fact Chunyi Lin said I should have called him on the phone when I was experiencing such strong energy from the intensive 8 day bigu fast -- instead of getting over-excited and afraid. I was surprised to hear him say to call him on the phone since I didn't think I was worthy to intrude -- but that was before he got so well-known, back around 2001.

 

Chunyi Lin says that sometimes he can actually hear his students when they call on his energy and then he sends it to them. So I guess I thought that would be the case for when I was training. But Chunyi Lin also says that there's no limit to the energy field -- since it's signal or information healing. So we can all build on his signal of energy.

 

My energy was stronger at the end of 2000 but then I accidentally pulled a blockage from the center of an old lady's head -- without touching her. She immediately bawled nonstop just as I felt this heavy electromagnetic form leave her skull. She couldn't see what I was doing but she realized I had good intentions, despite bawling nonstop for at least 15 minutes. Only I had forgotten that Chunyi Lin had stated to never pull blockages from out of the center of the skull and I had underestimated my own power. Someone else had to comfort the poor old lady whose spirit I had caused to leave her body.

 

Now I just sit in full-lotus and let the energy flow on its own. After emotional blockages the main issue is nutrition so I'm still working on this -- as it's difficult to accept not being able to eat certain foods and also eating very little. I can eat whatever but just as with emotional blockages I then have to reopen the channels. Sure I get jing energy from food but it's an impure source of jing energy. The sexual energy side of yoga has always been controversial and secretive but that's just what I learned from experience.

 

Chunyi Lin did say that I was a healer and that he'd "keep an eye on me." Still Chunyi Lin says that we are all born healers and that there is only "good, better and best" in Spring Forest qigong.

 

Chunyi Lin did say that the uniqueness of Spring Forest qigong is that the more we heal others the more we heal ourselves and that sickness is just extra energy in the body which is not harmonized.

 

For the blockages to be cleared the energy has to "go back to the Universe" -- or back to the Emptiness. Chunyi Lin says 20 minutes of full-lotus is worth 4 hours of any other type of meditation. So the full-lotus is the most efficient means to clear the blockages.

 

Still the energy is always transforming, as Chunyi Lin says, as well. So when in full-lotus I'm doing long distance healing only because that is the information which comes to me through the third eye direct perception. The energy is exchanged through walls, ceilings, floors, etc.

 

I've read every academic article and book on the Bushmen healing culture that I can find. As far as the Bushmen healers "collecting the N/um of young maidens" -- well it's based on the healers also transmitting the !Xia energy back to the females. If the male healers instead focus on astral travel rather than healing the females then the females throw water on the males. haha.

 

The secret to the healing is the real love energy -- this sense of love is very very powerful and cuts through a lot of the more superficial blockages from the lower emotions.

 

Chunyi Lin calls the healing magic the "Law of Love" in that latest teleseminar. You can definitely get the heart energy transmission from listening to it. Here it is again from his facebook blog:

 

Chunyi Lin Hello my dear friends! If you missed the initial free Healing Connection phone call with me last night, you can listen by going to this link: It will be available until 1/4/2010. Copy/Paste Link:

 

https://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?acti...81f87bae1c699b4

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Harsh? How putting people at risk of illness, possibly serious, by telling them outright lies?

 

http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?showto...12419&st=20

Chunyi Lin's words:

 

Spring Forest Level 3 manual, page 62:

Spring Forest Level 2 manual, page 37.

Another source:

 

Chinese Qigong - Outgoing Qi Therapy, pages 18-19

Chunyi Lin on healing energy:

Taking a persons 'sick qi' or 'qi blockages'-use whatever term you like-is a dangerous thing to do for any healer. Chunyi Lin clearly states NOT to do this. Drew has his own theories, which of course he is entitled to. However, they are not the same as Chunyi Lin's, nor are they the same as other qigong healers. Take your pick.

 

FWIW, anyone looking for reliable information on what is, or is not, safe, would be well advised to follow the advice of Michael Lomax-Ya Mu-here. He knows what he is talking about, has a lineage of qigong second to non, and the recognised credentials-and experience-to back it up.

 

Very specifically this:

It is not only complete bullshit, but DANGEROUS. Drew, being the self proclaimed font of knowledge when it comes to Spring Forest and the words of Chunyi Lin SHOULD be fully aware of what Chunyi Lin actually teaches:

However, it seems that Drew thinks he has this all worked out, and actually knows better than Chunyi Lin how Spring Forest actually works.

Delusional? Surely. This taking in of sick qi is NOT DONE BY MEDICAL QIGONG METHODS.

 

Drew's issue here though, is that he is so hooked on his 'o's at a d', that he has to justify HIS 'perversion' by claiming it is 'medicinal', and not just him getting his rocks off. He does it to get his jollies, end of story. He surely would not be doing it if it didn't.

 

Having qi will attract the attention of others. People, particularly women it seems, feel the energy (animals also). A responsible, compassionate, person does not take advantage of this. It does not matter if the other person is supposedly consenting-the relationship and the influence is not equal. It is an abuse of power.

 

The 'harsh' message now comes after numerous 'polite' comments, made by others as well as myself, which have just been ignored. Drew continues to give out incorrect, inaccurate 'advice'. No great issue if it is harmless-definately an issue if it is NOT harmless.

 

Drew claims to have figured out the meaning of Bushmen esoteric methods-from reading some books and listening to some music. Has he actually MET any Bushmen? Been to Africa and studied their culture directly? Seemingly not, but this seems to be no bar to Drew intimately understanding the depths of their spiritual practices...

 

Then we move onto Drew's 'theories' regarding the nature of qi. The 'tai-chi' generated qi of neigong is inferior to the 'shen lazer holographic' qi that, of course, is part of what Drew does. Conclusion reached how? Read some books, seen some video clips. How many neigong masters has Drew actually met? Non. How many methods of neigong has he actually practiced? Non. However, he's read Charles Luk's book, along with the writings of Nan Huai Chin, so that MUST mean Drew knows what he is talking about.

 

Drew does not have a clue what some of these masters can do, because he does not have the EXPERIENCE of it. He has not studied what they do, has not done the leg work to find out. He should therefore shut the fuck up about this. He has nothing like the understanding needed to make the claims he is.

 

Full lotus. Yes, an important part of many Chinese schools. The be all and end all of qigong? Not hardly. However, since Chunyli Lin told Drew, and Drew read it in a book, Drew knows it MUST be so. Not on the basis of actually having actually EXPERIENCED OTHER METHODS, in order to make an objective assessment. No. It fits with Drew's world view, therefore it must be so.

 

In conclusion. Do I think Drew is stupid? Not at all. Intelligent people can easily follow flawed thinking though. Edward de Bono has written about this and it would do anyone good to look at what de Bono has to say.

 

Drew digs up some interesting information from time to time. I've read some of what Nan Huai Chin has to say following Drew's mention of him, so I am grateful for that. Long may Drew continue to post.

 

However, as with anyone else posting opinions and conclusions on a public forum, those views are open to criticism by others. Advising people to do dangerous and stupid things and expressing incorrect, condescending viewpoints regarding things he knows nothing about, is not going to go unquestioned. I'd rather be polite and subtle, but if something needs to be bluntly stated, in order to make the point clearly, then so be it. I know you follow this method yourself from time to time Biff.

[mjjbecker]

 

The secret to the healing is the real love energy -- this sense of love is very very powerful and cuts through a lot of the more superficial blockages from the lower emotions.

 

 

Absolutely.

 

Drew, I wish you every success in getting to whatever the highest levels may be.

[enouch]

Please stop (mis)quoting me, or mentioning me, in any reference whatsoever to these matters. Feel free to follow whatever interests you have, but leave me out of it.

 

I have never practiced Spring Forest. I have the information, I have tried some exercises. It is good stuff. Trying something and practicing something are different things.

 

Spring Forest is not 'martial' qigong.

 

As for information, you're looking in all the wrong places. Go read Santiago, 'Ya Mu' and 'fiveelementtao's' posts. Forget about Drew's. He doesn't have the experience and certainly not the understanding. By saturation bombing the internet, he has become some sort of 'authority'. That in itself speaks of the perilous state of things in general.

Drew, your experience is narrow, limited, and does not include taijiquan, internal martial arts, Mo Pai neigong or other schools of neigong. Your 'theory' is wrong. You are pontificating about matters you know little about. As is your habit, once an 'idea' appears in your head, you decide it is a 'fact', and post this 'fact' all over the place. The consequence is that you mislead others, who do not have the experience or understanding to know better. Spreading bullshit may benefit crops, but with people and mushrooms, it really does only end up leaving them in the dark.

 

Stick to what you 'know' from your personal experience, and leave out your 'theories' regarding things you know nothing about. That of course would limit your posting on the internet rather severely. Perhaps you could then use the time to get a job and stop poncing off the society you happily sit and criticise from your idle perch instead.

 

For those who wish to learn, have an open mind, and care to get information from people who know what they are talking about, look here:

 

http://www.chinafrominside.com/ma/xyxy/diguoyongBIS.html

 

It was me who first posted the bagua link on this forum (having first been showed it by a friend back in 2002). It is good to get information from the actual masters, rather than rely on harebrained piffle posted up on this and other forums.

 

Being a basic overview, the chart does not go into detail. Look at the 'training dantian' information. From there, make an effort to get some real experience, rather than just partake of the pointless chuntering seemingly so beloved of this place. No wonder most of the people who have something useful don't find it worth their while bothering anymore.

 

Is attaining a high level rare? Yes, of course. Very few reach the really high levels of anything in life. That applies equally to 'qigong masters' More have the title of master than the actual level. The idea-proclaimed by Drew-that internal martial artists are all operating on a 'lower level' is utter crap, based on limited experience and a narrow, closed focus. Pay attention Drew, this is for you:

 

Those who really seek insight and understanding do not look for evidence to fit their pre-existing conclusions. Rather, they look at ALL the evidence OBJECTIVELY. Particularly when it does not fit their previous conclusions. Otherwise, we end up still believing in a flat earth, Aristotle's celestial spheres and torturing or burning heretics who inconveniently observe and report on the ACTUAL unvarnished FACTS. Yes Drew, I am saying you are as bad as the corporations and 'vested interests' in your methods of reporting.You are only interested in proclaiming your own viewpoint, your own biased opinions. I suggest you get off your lazy arse and learn what a qigong master is, and is not, by finishing the training you started. Stop spewing endless words about something you have only scratched the surface of. Stop endlessly going on and on and on and on about how you did the same old 'this and that'. Saying it once is enough. In the meantime, stop trying to finish the jigsaw by forcing the wrong pieces into the wrong holes.

 

Enouch, your drive is admirable. Get your head out of the books and away from the internet though. Find something that resonates with you and, to quote Nike, 'Just do it!' Forget about trying to be some 'master of the universe', as I stated before. Do what is right for you. Anyhow, non of this training is about 'power', but it seems that this fact is not grasped by many.

 

Doris Day sang it best, 'Que sera, sera, whatever will be, will be...'.

 

And yes, this message may also self destruct at some point in the future.

 

Merry Christmas

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I will certainly follow your wishes in this manner and refuse from directly quoting[mis] you. It's just your wisdom based on experience should be cherished along with others-Santiago,Ya- mu, ectera. Thank you for leaving bread crumbs for other bums to pick up like Lazarus in the gospell. For example, mentioning on the downlow about meditation masters with abilities like John Chang in thailand.I have found several techniques that resonate leaving me with personality benefits along with the downplayed sensations of electricity[tingling] on my body. I just want too make the best usage of my time...as Bruce Lee and Michael Jordan said in different eras; ''Take the elevator while others are taking the stairs'' Accelerated learning based on relentless application of self.''The hand of the dilligent will bear rule'' to quote Solomon.

 

I'm a giver, not a taker, a pleaser not a teaser, I want to actualize potentials while remaining humble like the dust of the earth.Your persona[on line] based on your wit and wry sense of humour reminds me of the fictional character Methos from highlander...behold:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5AhB6PD2oq4

 

Oh, by the way, James T. Kirk is the man! But Duncan Macloud is the TRUTH!!! the REALNESS!!! as we say in the States.

Edited December 27, 2009 by enouch

[tao stillness]

This might be off topic but I took a workshop 10 yrs ago when Chunyi came to Washington, DC to instruct a large group of psychotherapists at their annual week long workshop. Chunyi demonstrated in a very modest way that his third eye is indeed open. He had all of the people stand up who had some kind of pain and he instantly in each case told them where the pain was located. He was totally accurate. These were professional people, not plants in the audience at a stage performance. I did Spring Forest at our workplace for 8 years and I agree there is nothing martial arts about it. I would recommend it for beginners who need to be able to feel the chi so that they can start to believe that it is real.

[Rakiel]

Yeah, I felt it first time i did SFQ. I was a believer. My hands felt electric.